[Retros] Twisted knights

raosorio at fibertel.com.ar raosorio at fibertel.com.ar
Sat May 3 07:52:06 EDT 2008

Hi NIcolas,
After seeing your PG I wonder if the length could be reduced accepting a promoted
piece on the board. Kindly note that in our first PG the thematic lenght is 15.5 too,
since the last move is just to benefit the diagram.

This is a logical task: to minimyze the thematic pìeces'movements and total lenght.

On the contrary, I want to remark that Gianni got the opposite record with his very good
entry to the Jorge Lois' 60th JT (12 knight moves without capture)

Gianni Donatti
JL60JT, Special Prize
15+14 Proof game in 28.0 moves

1.h4 f5 2.h5 f4 3.h6 f3 4.exf3 Nc6 5.Bd3 Ne5 6.Bg6+ Nf7 7.d3 a5 8.Kd2 a4 9.Kc3 a3 10.Bd2 axb2
11.a4 Ra6 12.a5 Rd6 13.a6 Nf6 14.a7 Ng4 15.Ra6 Ne5 16.Na3 Nc6 17.Qa1 Nb8 18.Rc6 b6 19.Kb4 Ba6 20.c3 Bc4 21.Nc2 Be6 22.Qa6 Bg4 23.fxg4 Qc8 24.Nf3 Kd8 25.Re1 Ng5 26.Re6 Ne4 27.Ne5 Nf6 28.f3 Ng8

Interchange of Nb8 and Ng8, requiring 12 thematic moves. There exists a pg with 14 thematic moves
(P0000107 by Kornilov/Frolkin), but these moves include captures. See also P0001572 by Frolkin with
12 N moves with captures, and P0002337 by van Atten with 10 N moves without captures.


Nicolas Dupont wrote,
Very interesting ! Mine is unpublishable (horrible visible promoted
knight), unless if it is the shortest length record, but I doubt about

1.Pd2-d3 Pc7-c5 2.Fc1-f4 Dd8-a5 3.Cb1-d2 Pb7-b6
4.Pe2-e3 Fc8-b7 5.Cg1-e2 Fb7xg2 6.Th1-g1 Fg2-h3
7.Tg1-g6 Pc5-c4 8.Tg6-f6 Pe7xf6 9.Ta1-b1 Ff8-a3
10.Pb2xa3 Pc4-c3 11.Tb1-b2 Pc3xb2 12.Ce2-c3 Pb2-b1=C
13.Cd2-f3 Cb1-d2 14.Cf3-g1 Cd2-f3 15.Re1-e2 Cf3-h4

raosorio at fibertel.com.ar raosorio at fibertel.com.ar
Fri May 2 23:17:02 EDT 2008

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Hi Nicolas,

We worked this matter during 2006 and published in Problem Paradise a couple
of PGs, not focussed on shortest length record but in the 6 knight moves to get the
sibling and the complementary play strategy.

I reproduce here the sending to Satoshi,

We made a research on the PDB and found that there are 15 PGs that show
a mutual sibling of knights. We made the following technical evaluation:

a) The arguments of all of them to justify the siblings are a central pawn capture
or check protection.
b) In these PGs the knigths move 8-12 times. There are no antecedents in the PDB of
mutual sibling using just 6 moves, wich could be named as the "standard
mechanism" in the sense of WCCC Halkidiki 2004.
c) The homebase position is, in some cases, reached by the sibling side but
not the oposite one.

The Pgs we are sending here make the sibling in the standard way (6 moves) and the
argument is the oposite side promotion instead of captures or check protection.

Jorge Lois & Roberto Osorio
32 single moves C+

1.Pe2-e4 Pf7-f5 2.Bf1-a6 Pf5-f4 3.Pc2-c4 Pf4-f3
4.Sb1-c3 Pf3xg2 5.Qd1-f3 Pb7-b5 6.Qf3-f6 Pb5-b4
7.Pf2-f4 Pb4-b3 8.Sg1-f3 Pg2-g1=B 9.Sc3-e2 Bg1-c5
10.Se2-g1 Bc5-a3 11.Pb2xa3 Pb3-b2 12.Ke1-f2 Pb2-b1=S
13.Kf2-g3 Sb1-c3 14.Pd2xc3 Pd7-d5 15.Sf3-d2 Pd5-d4
16.Sd2-b1 Pd4xc3

Mutual NN sibling (6 moves) motivated by double Ceriani-Frolkin with promotions on
the knights' home squares. Black side finished officer homebase.

Jorge Lois & Roberto Osorio
39 single moves. 13 + 15 C+

1.Pd2-d4 Sb8-c6 2.Qd1-d3 Ra8-b8 3.Qd3-a6 Pb7xa6
4.Sg1-f3 Rb8-b5 5.Sf3-h4 Rb5-h5 6.Sh4-f5 Pd7-d5
7.Sf5-h6 Pg7xh6 8.Pg2-g4 Bf8-g7 9.Pg4-g5 Bg7-e5
10.Pg5-g6 Sg8-f6 11.Pg6-g7 Sf6-d7 12.Pg7-g8=S Sd7-b8
13.Sg8-f6 Pe7xf6 14.Pd4xe5 Sc6-e7 15.Pe5-e6 Se7-g8
16.Pe6-e7 Ke8-d7 17.Pe7-e8=Q Kd7-d6 18.Qe8-a4 Bc8-d7
19.Pc2-c3 Bd7-e8 20.Qa4-d1

Mutual NN sibling (6 moves) with Phenix/Ceriani-Frolkin and Pronkin.

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