[W126 Coupe] Switch to R134

Sat Aug 13 02:45:57 EDT 2005

Add this to the quandary and probably you should not show you '91 or earlier 
SEC in an originality contest unless it uses R-12 as a heat transfer system.
John

"I'll add to this my own opinion about what a royal screwing the whole R134
deal is.

There was NEVER an SEC made with hoses capable of containing R-134. R12 was
a very large molecule, R134 is a very small one, the hoses that were fine to
contain R12 cannot contain R134, Later hoses made for R134 are called
"barrier" hoses, they were not available before 1994, so whatever result you
get, good or bad, from converting an old car, unless you replace every inch
of the rubber hose in the system, you will get screwed again someday when
there is an "unexplained" loss of coolant, and EPA regulations, the
regulatory bastards in cahoots with the MACS thieving bastards, they cannot
legally recharge your system without finding a leak, which means billing you
for some part at random. Preferably the most expensive part.

The Mobile Air Conditioning Society represents the industry standing to make
billions and billions for years and years forcing US consumers to use
coolants absolutely forbidden in most of the world as ineffective and toxic.
They use dirt cheap and incredibly effective propane and isobutene in every
refrigerator in Germany and every car in Asia and I think in Australia and
I'm sure in New Zealand.

This is a topic done to death years ago, check in the archives. I've posted
links to research papers many times, the professional standards manual on
the use of hydrocarbon refrigerants Search for r290
Nathan  "

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Richard Hogarth" <R_Hogarth at Foundrycove.com>
To: "'Mercedes Coupes Mailing Lists'" <mbcoupes at mbcoupes.com>
Sent: Friday, August 12, 2005 9:12 PM
Subject: RE: [W126 Coupe] Switch to R134

>I hate wasting my money and labor too. That's why it pays to put in the 
>$300
> to $600 up front and make a reliable system for years to come. If one seal
> is decayed, they are all decaying... Etc etc etc.
> Don't' you think that an auto of that age needs a new compressor, or
> at least a new shaft seal and bearing? Don't you think that at that age 
> all
> of the hose seals should be replaced? The dryer/accumulator does not have 
> to
> come from mercedes and that is critical for keeping the system free of
> moisture.
> I have been down the quick and dirty just add some freon to the system 
> road
> too many times and it just ain't worth it.
> -Axlehead
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: mbcoupes-bounces at mbcoupes.com [mailto:mbcoupes-bounces at mbcoupes.com]
> On Behalf Of airedale at sbcglobal.net
> Sent: Friday, August 12, 2005 10:05 AM
> To: Mercedes Coupes Mailing Lists
> Subject: Re: [W126 Coupe] Switch to R134
>
> Gallons of blood have been shed and tons of flames flourished at
> http://www.mercedesshop.com/shopforum on this subject. This is the advice 
> I
> finally settled on with my 380SL and will follow if the day comes with my
> 560SEC.
>
> " Yes if the system is designed originally for 134 there is no reason that
> it won't cool as well or better. The 124 cars that came originally with 
> R12
> will NOT cool as well with 134. I fully expect that if you could find the
> condenser, aux fan and all necessary components from a later 134 equipped
> car, you could make it work as well as Paul's.
>
> Before you do that, however, let's do some very simple math. I would guess
> that to change condenser and all associated parts assuming you perform the
> labor yourself would cost a bare minimum of $300 if you found what you 
> need
> in the salvage yard and I think that is a LOW number. Then you need to fix
> whatever leak or other problem you may have regardless of refrigerant
> choice.
>
> Okay, now, R12 can be had for $15 to $25 a can on ebay and it will cost 
> you
> $15 to take the online test to get your 609 certificate to buy it. You 
> would
> probably need only three cans for a 124, but let's say you need 4. Four 
> cans
> at $25 is $100.
>
> So you're going to spend $300, so you can save about $80 on refrigerant. 
> I'm
> an older fellow and learned my math before what was called "New Math" came
> along. But, I fully expect that even with "New Math" you will find 
> changing
> to 134 will cost an extra $220.
>
> R12 is the least expensive component in your air conditioner. Repair what
> needs repairing, charge with R12 and enjoy being cool. It absolutely blows
> me away to see some of the incredible trouble and expense people go 
> through
> to save $50 or $75 on refrigerant. It's like they refuse to do the simple
> math that is involved.
>
> Good luck,
> __________________
> Larry Bible
>
> Change oil hot and change oil often.
>
> ASE Certified; MASTER
> 609 Certification
>
> '84 Euro 240D, manual, 533K miles
> '88 300E 5 Speed 268K miles "
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Richard Hogarth" <R_Hogarth at Foundrycove.com>
> To: "'Mercedes Coupes Mailing Lists'" <mbcoupes at mbcoupes.com>
> Sent: Friday, August 12, 2005 9:28 AM
> Subject: [W126 Coupe] Switch to R134
>
>
>>I was where are now about 4 years ago.
>> Face it, R-12 is history and
>> R-134 is the defacto automobile standard.
>> If you stay with R-12
>> You will be faced with an
>> Ever increasing cost and declining
>> Supply of that precious fluid.
>> After you figure out where the leak is,
>> Get a new compressor, change out
>> The dryer, expansion valve and all of
>> The seals. Blow a ton of air through
>> The condenser and the evaporator after spraying in
>> Some 90% alcohol or Brakleen to pick up all left over oil.
>> Make sure that all of your air ducts are sealed and that the
>> Vent doors operate and seal properly.
>> The air will work just fine. !!!
>> (by the way, don't be fooled by imitation R-12 replacements and blends;
>> they
>> are all crap)
>> -Richard hogarth
>> axlehead at bellsouth.net
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: mbcoupes-bounces at mbcoupes.com 
>> [mailto:mbcoupes-bounces at mbcoupes.com]
>> On Behalf Of airedale at sbcglobal.net
>> Sent: Friday, August 12, 2005 8:30 AM
>> To: Mercedes Coupes Mailing Lists
>> Subject: Re: [W126 Coupe] Re: Refrigerant info
>>
>> I got what I paid for at about $28. per can, look at the persons 
>> feedback.
>> Keep in mind you need a certification to buy it from a dealer but some
>> will
>> offer you a "on the spot" certification, I happen to have one.
>> John
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Gary Green" <Gary at EverGreen-Systems.COM>
>> To: "'Mercedes Coupes Mailing Lists'" <mbcoupes at mbcoupes.com>
>> Sent: Friday, August 12, 2005 8:08 AM
>> Subject: RE: [W126 Coupe] Re: Refrigerant info
>>
>>
>>>I see those "auctions" all the time.  My question is, are they legit?
>>>(in  the sense that an auction winner actually receives what they paid
>>>for).  I  need a couple of cans for my 93 Suburban but am hesitant to
>> "bid".
>>>
>>> Anyone have any thoughts?
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: mbcoupes-bounces at mbcoupes.com
>>> [mailto:mbcoupes-bounces at mbcoupes.com]
>>> On Behalf Of airedale at sbcglobal.net
>>> Sent: Friday, August 12, 2005 9:04 AM
>>> To: figstir at yahoo.com; Mercedes Coupes Mailing Lists
>>> Subject: Re: [W126 Coupe] Re: Refrigerant info
>>>
>>> R-12 seems to sell on eBay for $15. and up per can.
>>> John
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "a figment of the imagination" <figstir at yahoo.com>
>>> To: "Richard Hogarth" <R_Hogarth at Foundrycove.com>; "'Mercedes Coupes
>>> Mailing Lists'" <mbcoupes at mbcoupes.com>
>>> Sent: Friday, August 12, 2005 3:11 AM
>>> Subject: [W126 Coupe] Re: Refrigerant info
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>> Richard et al.:
>>>>
>>>> Now that I have read through all your links and become throughly
>>>> versed in physical chemistry, HVAC, and am ready sit for examinations
>>>> for a mechanical engineering degree and HVAC license, I'm thoroughly
>>>> con-fuzed... :(
>>>>
>>>> I'm not sure whether to switch to R134a or stay with R12.
>>>>
>>>> I don't know who's side is truly correct, because I've read arguments
>>>> on both sides that are plausible and some as well a bit specious,
>>>> perhaps?
>>>>
>>>> Sadly though, all of this translates as me still roasting in my black
>>>> SEC with tinted windows.  That means damp and sticky work clothes...in
>>>> near 100+ F temps....and the embarrassment of wearing a "wet one"
>>>> after getting out of a simply badd ass look'n SEC machine...Oh, "the
>>>> horror....the horror", as Marlon Brando (Kurtz) plainly put it.
>>>>
>>>> So, even though several of you have successfully converted to R134a,
>>>> either the swiss-cheesed savants are totally right, totally wrong,
>>>> somewhere in between, or totally passing gas---it's simply more hot
>>>> air, that's fryin my pan, burning my bacon and roasting my nuts.
>>>>
>>>> shivers.  (i wish)  it seems better to cook with spam for the next two
>>>> months, with the hopes of shelling out 3 cans X $50-75/can of R12 =
>>>> $150 to $225 to keep me cool and in the shade.  (Thank gawd, mom has a
>>>> HVAC license and can get R12....geez louise???)
>>>>
>>>> Then, can we unanimously conclude it's just better to stick with R12?
>>>>
>>>> Or, really, where's the beef with the R134a?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Someone please tell me I'm not going crazy from the heat....
>>>>
>>>> What's the final verdict for SEC owners who plan to keep their cars
>>>> for the long haul without burnin up the A/C oil and compressor,
>>>> clogging the system, etc...galore...and gored...?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Help!
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Thank ya, man!
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -figment of great misfortune in too much dmn heat.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> __________________________________
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