surprise! god is in each of us...
telebob
austin-ghetto-list@pairlist.net
Tue Mar 30 11:49:21 2004
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Jesus Frances! That is NOT a mosque out on Camp Ben McCullogh Road. That
is Barsana Dam, and it is an Indian Hindu community.
http://barsanadham.org
They are great people and it is wonderful little community out there. They
have some very coloful festivals, and I suggest you check out their calendar
and attend. I used to go with my daughter and stepson every year for
several years. They loved the elephant rides and the henna 'tattoos'.
They have the best peaches in Texas.
Shree Telebhob
-----Original Message-----
From: austin-ghetto-list-admin@pairlist.net
[mailto:austin-ghetto-list-admin@pairlist.net]On Behalf Of Frances Morey
Sent: Monday, March 29, 2004 11:43 PM
To: austin-ghetto-list@pairlist.net
Subject: Re: surprise! god is in each of us...
Pepi,
I have never been to a mosque either. We ought to go to the one out 290 on
the way to the Salt Lick. It has $38,000 worth of gleaming gold tile on the
entrance built up so high you can see it from the road. I would love to view
it up close, and see what the service is like. I thought Gregorian chant in
the Chapel at Our Lady of the Lake was wonderful.
Francse
Pepi Plowman <pepstoil@yahoo.com> wrote:
The only thing I ever liked about church was the
music. The sermons put me to sleep. We had one
fairly intelligent and educated minister at our
community church in Puerto La Cruz (we shared it with
the Catholics, who came in for 8 a.m. mass)--he
sometimes gave thought provoking sermons, but then we
got a fire and brimstone guy and everyone slept
through his exhortations. He was always trying to
save somebody--kind of like a Jesus salesman. I liked
Quaker meeting because it was quiet sometimes, except
for when people got up to speak. The Episcopalians and
Catholics seemed to do a lot of up and down and repeat
after me stuff. I've never been to a temple of any
kind or a mosque, for that matter. I'm crazy for all
the major choral works, especially Bach. I sang them
in choirs in highschool and later. There was some
totally inspired church music written that makes me
want to fly when I hear it.
pep
--- Wayne Johnson wrote:
> My problem is that most of my early Church
> experience was filled with horrid white anglo saxon
> protestant hypocricy and utter dismissal of other
> religions whilst insisting that Jesus should be the
> half back on your football team. This drivel would
> stun a ground hog for its imbecility but seemed to
> go over big in Georgetown in the Fifties. The
> single person of deep religious faith that I knew
> personally and respected was Rev. Heinsohn of the
> University Methodist Church on the Drag. I worked
> there as a night-time custodian whilst a student at
> UT. He was a gentleman, a true Biblical scholar and
> his sermons were absent of cliche or dumb harangues.
> By any measure, a great person and a credit to our
> species.
>
> wj
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Frances Morey
> To: austin-ghetto-list@pairlist.net
> Sent: Sunday, March 28, 2004 7:54 PM
> Subject: Re: surprise! god is in each of us...
>
>
> Wayne,
> These incidences of kindness are multiplied
> thousands of times as church members all over are
> moved to help their fellow humans. I've seen it in
> action and even experienced some of it myself in my
> darkest moments. The church is the Other place, away
> from home and the husstle 'n' bustle of the
> marketplace, where people can be quite and
> contemplative in humility, surrounded by peace and
> quiet or ethereal music, and participating in the
> familiar and predictable process of the liturgy, if
> a Mass, or listening to preachments alternating with
> the singing of hymns, if they happen to be
> protestant. I always prefered the Catholic practice
> of keeping the whole service to an hour, homily and
> all. That is merely the excuse for being together,
> though. Perhaps god is really the human matrix in
> which we immerse ourselves and the churches are
> places we are able to find other humans who are
> capable and willing to express good will--I believe
> that is so, anyway. My church experiences have been
> as described and if not I certainly let them hear
> about it. But that's another story.
> Frances
>
> Wayne Johnson wrote:
> I just found out yesterday that a very dear
> friend of our in Reston has
> contract ALS and it has already progessed to the
> point where he can barely
> brush his teeth and can't clothe himself. He and
> his wife had joined a
> local Unitarian church a couple of years ago and
> these good people have
> taken it upon themselves to provide a world of
> kindness, gentleness, love
> and direct physical and emotional assistance to
> him and his wife. This
> includes visits, shopping trips with and without
> him, food deliveries and
> compansionship.
>
> To my old timey way of thinking, this is what
> "churches" used to do: love
> people and be supportive of those in need. Every
> so often it is good (for me
> in particular) to be reminded that there are
> those who actually practice
> what their religion suggests is "Christian"
> behavior. Of course, the
> Unitarians aren't exactly boil! er-plate,
> orthodox, Holey-Rollers. I believe
> Ben Franklin was a Unitarian and possibly G.
> Washington as well. Not
> exactly Bible thumpers. Many of these
> congregations accept neo-pagan
> beliefs without rancor. (Oddly, the only other
> church I have found with
> similar sentiments was a (Scottish) Episcopal
> church in Campbell, CA.
> Campbell being vurrry Scottish as a person and a
> clan.
>
> Anyway. Have to say sometimes the sysems works
> and works to the benefit of
> some who really, really deserve it.
>
> wj
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Pepi Plowman"
> To:
> Sent: Saturday, March 27, 2004 9:45 PM
> Subject: RE: let's not do nuance
>
>
> > Wayne, Judy, Tele,
> >
> > I'm with you all the way on the first part.
> God, what
> > God? Which God? But allow me to elaborate
> further,
> > below...
> > --- telebob wrote:
> > > Wayne-
> > >
> > >! ; I think as you do, and thank you for
> reminding us
> > > that most priests and
> > > factotems are basically criminals who spread
> > > cultural myths
> >
> > totally. Myths that preceded that particular
> religion
> > which the priests and factotems accepted as
> truth and
> > preached, or myths that were flagrantly made
> up to
> > suit a cultural bias in order to bring more
> ignorant
> > humans to the "fold".
> >
> > (all the better
> > > if they believe what they preach, it makes
> it easier
> > > for them to sleep)in
> > > order to retain and extend personal and
> > > institutional power. This is not to
> > > say that there are no benefits, since those
> common
> > > mythyologies help to
> > > create a 'public order' no matter what the
> standard.
> > > Are religious
> > > societies 'better' than secular societies?
> >
> > Fuck, no!
> >
> > How do
> > > ! we measure? These are
> > > topics worthy of millions of tomes, and
> indeed you
> > > know they are out there
> > > discussing this shit still, like a bunch of
> > > sophomores who have just
> > > dicovered 'philosophy'.
> >
> > How dare they abuse us by discussing them?!
> State and
> > religion should not mix, Point!
> > >
> > > But my dad, who was a doctor, was in a
> > > 'philosophical' mood one night, a
> > > little in his cups, and he related. "I watch
> people
> > > die and people born
> > > every day as a part of my job, and all I can
> say is,
> > > 'Where does the flame
> > > go when it goes out?' Does the flame have a
> soul?"
> >
> > So, did he ever answer his question, or did he
> just
> > ask?
> >
> > > He was not a religious
> > > man, though he tried to keep up appearances.
> On the
> > > other hand, he was
> > > 'moral' person w! ho enjoyed overpaying his
> taxes and
> > > never breaking a traffic
> > > law.
> > >
> > > So when we are approached by 'holy men' of
> any
> > > stripe, know you are being
> > > approached by the powers of darkness.
> >
> > Do you really believe there is a Big Boogyman
> out
> > there?!
> >
> > This includes
> > > rabbis, priests,
> > > mullahs, and most medicine men. I put my
> faith in
> > > the scientific method and
> > > its self correcting process.
> > >
> >
> > Man, I'd hate to be on the back end of a "self
> > correcting process" inflicted on me by a
> source
> > outside myself (like doctors and lawyers and
> > policemen) when I had resources available to
> me that
>
=== message truncated ===
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<DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2><SPAN =
class=3D484063816-30032004>Jesus=20
Frances! That is NOT a mosque out on Camp Ben McCullogh =
Road. That=20
is Barsana Dam, and it is an Indian Hindu community.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D484063816-30032004></SPAN></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2><SPAN =
class=3D484063816-30032004><A=20
href=3D"http://barsanadham.org">http://barsanadham.org</A></SPAN></FONT><=
/DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D484063816-30032004></SPAN></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2><SPAN =
class=3D484063816-30032004>They=20
are great people and it is wonderful little community out there. =
They have=20
some very coloful festivals, and I suggest you check out their =
calendar and=20
attend. I used to go with my daughter and stepson every year for =
several=20
years. They loved the elephant rides and the henna=20
'tattoos'.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2><SPAN =
class=3D484063816-30032004>They=20
have the best peaches in Texas.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D484063816-30032004></SPAN></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2><SPAN =
class=3D484063816-30032004>Shree=20
Telebhob</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE>
<DIV class=3DOutlookMessageHeader dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><FONT =
face=3DTahoma=20
size=3D2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B>=20
austin-ghetto-list-admin@pairlist.net=20
[mailto:austin-ghetto-list-admin@pairlist.net]<B>On Behalf Of =
</B>Frances=20
Morey<BR><B>Sent:</B> Monday, March 29, 2004 11:43 PM<BR><B>To:</B>=20
austin-ghetto-list@pairlist.net<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: surprise! god =
is in=20
each of us...<BR><BR></FONT></DIV>
<DIV>Pepi,</DIV>
<DIV>I have never been to a mosque either. We ought to go to the one =
out 290=20
on the way to the Salt Lick. It has $38,000 worth of gleaming gold =
tile on the=20
entrance built up so high you can see it from the road. I would love=20
to view it up close, and see what the service is like. I thought=20
Gregorian chant in the Chapel at Our Lady of the Lake was =
wonderful.</DIV>
<DIV>Francse<BR><BR><B><I>Pepi Plowman =
<pepstoil@yahoo.com></I></B>=20
wrote:</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE class=3Dreplbq=20
style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #1010ff 2px =
solid">The=20
only thing I ever liked about church was the<BR>music. The sermons =
put me to=20
sleep. We had one<BR>fairly intelligent and educated minister at=20
our<BR>community church in Puerto La Cruz (we shared it with<BR>the=20
Catholics, who came in for 8 a.m. mass)--he<BR>sometimes gave =
thought=20
provoking sermons, but then we<BR>got a fire and brimstone guy and =
everyone=20
slept<BR>through his exhortations. He was always trying to<BR>save=20
somebody--kind of like a Jesus salesman. I liked<BR>Quaker meeting =
because=20
it was quiet sometimes, except<BR>for when people got up to speak. =
The=20
Episcopalians and<BR>Catholics seemed to do a lot of up and down and =
repeat<BR>after me stuff. I've never been to a temple of any<BR>kind =
or a=20
mosque, for that matter. I'm crazy for all<BR>the major choral =
works,=20
especially Bach. I sang them<BR>in choirs in highschool and later. =
There was=20
some<BR>totally inspired church music written that makes me<BR>want =
to fly=20
when I hear it.<BR>pep<BR>--- Wayne Johnson=20
<CADAOBH@SHENTEL.NET>wrote:<BR>> My problem is that most of my =
early=20
Church<BR>> experience was filled with horrid white anglo =
saxon<BR>>=20
protestant hypocricy and utter dismissal of other<BR>> religions =
whilst=20
insisting that Jesus should be the<BR>> half back on your =
football team.=20
This drivel would<BR>> stun a ground hog for its imbecility but =
seemed=20
to<BR>> go over big in Georgetown in the Fifties. The<BR>> =
single=20
person of deep religious faith that I knew<BR>> personally and =
respected=20
was Rev. Heinsohn of the<BR>> University Methodist Church on the =
Drag. I=20
worked<BR>> there as a night-time custodian whilst a student =
at<BR>>=20
UT. He was a gentleman, a true Biblical scholar and<BR>> his =
sermons were=20
absent of cliche or dumb harangues.<BR>> By any measure, a great =
person=20
and a credit to our<BR>> species.<BR>> <BR>> wj<BR>> =
-----=20
Original Message ----- <BR>> From: Frances Morey <BR>> To:=20
austin-ghetto-list@pairlist.net <BR>> Sent: Sunday, March 28, =
2004 7:54=20
PM<BR>> Subject: Re: surprise! god is in each of us...<BR>> =
<BR>>=20
<BR>> Wayne,<BR>> These incidences of kindness are =
multiplied<BR>>=20
thousands of times as church members all over are<BR>> moved to =
help=20
their fellow humans. I've seen it in<BR>> action and even =
experienced=20
some of it myself in my<BR>> darkest moments. The church is the =
Other=20
place, away<BR>> from home and the husstle 'n' bustle of =
the<BR>>=20
marketplace, where people can be quite and<BR>> contemplative in=20
humility, surrounded by peace and<BR>> quiet or ethereal music, =
and=20
participating in the<BR>> familiar and predictable process of the =
liturgy, if<BR>> a Mass, or listening to preachments alternating=20
with<BR>> the singing of hymns, if they happen to be<BR>> =
protestant.=20
I always prefered the Catholic practice<BR>> of keeping the whole =
service=20
to an hour, homily and<BR>> all. That is merely the excuse for =
being=20
together,<BR>> though. Perhaps god is really the human matrix =
in<BR>>=20
which we immerse ourselves and the churches are<BR>> places we =
are able=20
to find other humans who are<BR>> capable and willing to express =
good=20
will--I believe<BR>> that is so, anyway. My church experiences =
have=20
been<BR>> as described and if not I certainly let them =
hear<BR>> about=20
it. But that's another story.<BR>> Frances <BR>> <BR>> =
Wayne=20
Johnson <CADAOBH@SHENTEL.NET>wrote:<BR>> I just found out =
yesterday that=20
a very dear<BR>> friend of our in Reston has<BR>> contract ALS =
and it=20
has already progessed to the<BR>> point where he can =
barely<BR>> brush=20
his teeth and can't clothe himself. He and<BR>> his wife had =
joined=20
a<BR>> local Unitarian church a couple of years ago and<BR>> =
these=20
good people have<BR>> taken it upon themselves to provide a world =
of<BR>> kindness, gentleness, love<BR>> and direct physical =
and=20
emotional assistance to<BR>> him and his wife. This<BR>> =
includes=20
visits, shopping trips with and without<BR>> him, food deliveries =
and<BR>> compansionship.<BR>> <BR>> To my old timey way of=20
thinking, this is what<BR>> "churches" used to do: love<BR>> =
people=20
and be supportive of those in need. Every<BR>> so often it is =
good (for=20
me<BR>> in particular) to be reminded that there are<BR>> =
those who=20
actually practice<BR>> what their religion suggests is=20
"Christian"<BR>> behavior. Of course, the<BR>> Unitarians =
aren't=20
exactly boil! er-plate,<BR>> orthodox, Holey-Rollers. I =
believe<BR>>=20
Ben Franklin was a Unitarian and possibly G.<BR>> Washington as =
well.=20
Not<BR>> exactly Bible thumpers. Many of these<BR>> =
congregations=20
accept neo-pagan<BR>> beliefs without rancor. (Oddly, the only=20
other<BR>> church I have found with<BR>> similar sentiments =
was a=20
(Scottish) Episcopal<BR>> church in Campbell, CA.<BR>> =
Campbell being=20
vurrry Scottish as a person and a<BR>> clan.<BR>> <BR>> =
Anyway.=20
Have to say sometimes the sysems works<BR>> and works to the =
benefit=20
of<BR>> some who really, really deserve it.<BR>> <BR>> =
wj<BR>>=20
----- Original Message ----- <BR>> From: "Pepi Plowman" <BR>> =
To:=20
<BR>> Sent: Saturday, March 27, 2004 9:45 PM<BR>> Subject: RE: =
let's=20
not do nuance<BR>> <BR>> <BR>> > Wayne, Judy, =
Tele,<BR>>=20
><BR>> > I'm with you all the way on the first =
part.<BR>> God,=20
what<BR>> > God? Which God? But allow me to elaborate<BR>>=20
further,<BR>> > below...<BR>> > --- telebob =
wrote:<BR>> >=20
> Wayne-<BR>> > ><BR>> > >! ; I think as you =
do, and=20
thank you for<BR>> reminding us<BR>> > > that most =
priests=20
and<BR>> > > factotems are basically criminals who =
spread<BR>>=20
> > cultural myths<BR>> ><BR>> > totally. Myths =
that=20
preceded that particular<BR>> religion<BR>> > which the =
priests and=20
factotems accepted as<BR>> truth and<BR>> > preached, or =
myths that=20
were flagrantly made<BR>> up to<BR>> > suit a cultural bias =
in=20
order to bring more<BR>> ignorant<BR>> > humans to the=20
"fold".<BR>> ><BR>> > (all the better<BR>> > > =
if they=20
believe what they preach, it makes<BR>> it easier<BR>> > =
> for=20
them to sleep)in<BR>> > > order to retain and extend =
personal=20
and<BR>> > > institutional power. This is not to<BR>> =
> >=20
say that there are no benefits, since those<BR>> common<BR>> =
> >=20
mythyologies help to<BR>> > > create a 'public order' no =
matter=20
what the<BR>> standard.<BR>> > > Are religious<BR>> =
> >=20
societies 'better' than secular societies?<BR>> ><BR>> > =
Fuck,=20
no!<BR>> ><BR>> > How do<BR>> > > ! we measure? =
These=20
are<BR>> > > topics worthy of millions of tomes, =
and<BR>> indeed=20
you<BR>> > > know they are out there<BR>> > > =
discussing=20
this shit still, like a bunch of<BR>> > > sophomores who =
have=20
just<BR>> > > dicovered 'philosophy'.<BR>> ><BR>> =
> How=20
dare they abuse us by discussing them?!<BR>> State and<BR>> =
>=20
religion should not mix, Point!<BR>> > ><BR>> > > =
But my=20
dad, who was a doctor, was in a<BR>> > > 'philosophical' =
mood one=20
night, a<BR>> > > little in his cups, and he related. "I=20
watch<BR>> people<BR>> > > die and people born<BR>> =
> >=20
every day as a part of my job, and all I can<BR>> say is,<BR>> =
>=20
> 'Where does the flame<BR>> > > go when it goes out?' =
Does the=20
flame have a<BR>> soul?"<BR>> ><BR>> > So, did he =
ever answer=20
his question, or did he<BR>> just<BR>> > ask?<BR>> =
><BR>>=20
> > He was not a religious<BR>> > > man, though he =
tried to=20
keep up appearances.<BR>> On the<BR>> > > other hand, he =
was<BR>> > > 'moral' person w! ho enjoyed overpaying =
his<BR>>=20
taxes and<BR>> > > never breaking a traffic<BR>> > =
>=20
law.<BR>> > ><BR>> > > So when we are approached =
by 'holy=20
men' of<BR>> any<BR>> > > stripe, know you are =
being<BR>>=20
> > approached by the powers of darkness.<BR>> ><BR>> =
> Do=20
you really believe there is a Big Boogyman<BR>> out<BR>> >=20
there?!<BR>> ><BR>> > This includes<BR>> > > =
rabbis,=20
priests,<BR>> > > mullahs, and most medicine men. I put =
my<BR>>=20
faith in<BR>> > > the scientific method and<BR>> > =
> its=20
self correcting process.<BR>> > ><BR>> ><BR>> > =
Man,=20
I'd hate to be on the back end of a "self<BR>> > correcting =
process"=20
inflicted on me by a<BR>> source<BR>> > outside myself =
(like=20
doctors and lawyers and<BR>> > policemen) when I had resources =
available to<BR>> me that<BR>> <BR>=3D=3D=3D message truncated =
=3D=3D=3D<BR><BR><BR>__________________________________<BR>Do you=20
Yahoo!?<BR>Yahoo! Finance Tax Center - File online. File on=20
time.<BR>http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html<BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
<P>
<HR SIZE=3D1>
<FONT face=3Darial size=3D-1>Do you Yahoo!?<BR><A=20
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