[Retros] Natch 3.0 beta is out
Paulo Peccin
ppeccin at gmail.com
Fri Jul 29 14:30:07 EDT 2016
That is my initial position:
4k2r/pp2p1p1/P7/4Np2/1B4Q1/P2NP1n1/1PbP3q/K2R3R
The idea is to prove that the Black King has moved and cannot castle
anymore.
Can Natch help in any means?
Thanks,
On Fri, Jul 29, 2016 at 3:25 PM, Pascal Wassong <pascal.wassong at free.fr>
wrote:
> Hi Paulo,
>
> Natch is absolutely not done to solve this kind of problems. It will
> take way too much time, and spit out way too much solutions.
>
> Checking if your initial position is legal is easy for anybody used to
> solve retrograde problems. Finding the shortest proof game to your
> position is probably not interesting at all. About 80 or 100 years ago,
> this was sometimes done to show that a position is legal. Nowadays,
> nobody does it anymore.
>
> If you intend to publish your problem, the section editor where you will
> send it will be able to tell you if your position is legal or not.
>
> Pascal
>
>
> >>>>> "Paulo" == Paulo Peccin <ppeccin at gmail.com> writes:
>
> Paulo> Its for a problem I invented. Its a "mate in 2" problem that
> Paulo> requires retro analysis, and I want to check if the starting
> Paulo> position is really reachable in a normal valid game. So I don't
> Paulo> really know how many moves it would require to get there. I
> Paulo> want to find the minimum number of moves possible.
>
> Paulo> Thanks, Paulo
>
>
> Paulo> On Fri, Jul 29, 2016 at 3:03 PM, Pascal Wassong
> Paulo> <pascal.wassong at free.fr>
> Paulo> wrote:
>
> >> Hello,
> >>
> >> thank you for using iNatch and Natch !
> >>
> >> For iNatch, the version 0.7 has been created for 32 bits machines,
> >> this is a bit outdated. I suggest using the previous version
> >> 0.6.2, which is a full java version, independant from 32 bits or 64
> >> bits. Many users (me included) prefer the 0.6.2 version.
> >>
> >> For Natch, you must provide the number of moves. It is strange to
> >> want to try Natch on a position without knowing the minimum number
> >> of moves needed to reach it. You could test the position while
> >> increasing the number of moves at each try.
> >>
> >> Best wishes, Pascal
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> >>>>> "Paulo" == Paulo Peccin <ppeccin at gmail.com> writes:
> >>
> Paulo> Tried to run iNatch, but it does not start in my machine. Java8
> Paulo> installed. The logs say:
> >>
> Paulo> !ENTRY org.eclipse.osgi 4 0 2016-07-29 14:45:04.760 !MESSAGE
> Paulo> Application error !STACK 1 java.lang.UnsatisfiedLinkError: no
> Paulo> swt-win32-3320 or swt-win32 in swt.library.path,
> Paulo> java.libary.path or the jar file
> >>
> Paulo> Also, can I use Natch to find a solution to a position, but I
> Paulo> don't know how many moves it would take to get to that
> Paulo> position?
> >>
> Paulo> Thanks, Paulo
> >>
> Paulo> On Fri, Jul 29, 2016 at 1:46 PM, Pascal Wassong
> Paulo> <pascal.wassong at free.fr>
> Paulo> wrote:
> >>
> >> >> Hello all,
> >> >>
> >> >> 19 years after the first version, 7 years after the latest
> >> version, >> a new version of Natch is out. It is version 3.0 beta.
> >> You can >> download it from http://Natch.free.fr .
> >> >>
> >> >> Previous version already computed the order of some moves. This
> >> >> was used to eliminate position having cycles in it. For example
> >> >> Pa2-a8=N-b6*Pa7 and Pa7xb6. These move orders found for a
> >> position >> are now used when searching for the moves. For
> >> example, if black >> must play Rh8-e8-e3-c3 and white Pe2-e4, the
> >> wPe2 won't be allowed >> to move before the black rook arrived at
> >> c3. This improvement >> increase the speed of resolution of many
> >> problems, and makes the >> --watch (-k for short) preaty useless.
> >> >>
> >> >> Many more move orders are also found.
> >> >>
> >> >> A bug has been corrected, where some solutions where not found.
> >> >>
> >> >> A bug has been corrected on Mac, which made the program crash
> >> when >> the hash-tables where full. I was surprised to learn about
> >> this >> problem so late.
> >> >>
> >> >> There are also minor changes in the output file and when using
> >> the >> visual option.
> >> >>
> >> >> More details about this new version are available in the NEWS
> >> file >> available when you download the beta version.
> >> >>
> >> >> There were many bugs in the numerous alpha version while
> >> developing >> this 3.0 version, which have been found by the
> >> testers, mainly >> Michel Caillaud and Thierry Le Gleuher. Thanks
> >> to them and to the >> other testers.
> >> >>
> >> >> There may still be bugs in this version. If you find one, don't
> >> >> hesitate to send it to me. The informations needed are: - the
> >> >> proof game, being as short as possible, that reproduces the bug;
> >> - >> the expected solution; - the number of the position where the
> >> bug >> occurs, if needed; - a clear description of what is going
> >> wrong.
> >> >>
> >> >> The precompiled version for windows is a 64 bits version. I
> >> could >> also prepare a 32 bits windows version, if enough people
> >> are >> interested.
> >> >>
> >> >> Happy composing, Pascal >>
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