[Retros] Mate with a 3-fold repetition

A J Mestel A.J.Mestel at damtp.cam.ac.uk
Thu Oct 11 03:54:54 EDT 2007

On Wed, 10 Oct 2007, Mark Tilford wrote:


>>> What are the rules if someone loses on time and the only conceivable way

>>> he could be mated would lead to a 3-fold repetition? Is it assumed that if

>>> he is playing badly he would forget to claim a draw? I suppose that's

>>> logical.


>>> Jonathan


>> What you say is not clear for me.

>> How can be a 3-fold repetition the only way to give mate?

>> The repeated position could'nt just be the mate,

>> and if it is'nt the mate it is useless, so it can't be "the only

>> conceivable way".

>> Did you mean a mate more than 50 moves longer?


>> Franco



> Perhaps an intermediate position on the path to the checkmate was

> passed previously, and the player didn't notice that he missed a mate.


>> _______________________________________________

Yes that's what I meant. Something like this once happened to me at an
Olympiad against Lev Alburt. At the 2nd time control I had a winning
attack but was short of time. So I repeated position to reach the time
control, to analyse the position preoperly. I then saw I had a simple win,
but only if I repeated the position a 3rd time! So I had to find another
move in an attempt to win. But what made this worse, is that the game was
on a demonstration board; many of the strongest players in the world were
passing by, looking at the position (which didn't show its history, of
course!!) and finding the fairly obvious win and wondered why on earth I
didn't play it!! The most frustrating aspect was I could feel everyone
laughing at me, not knowing the retro-content of the position...

Imagine a position like 5bk1/4p1p1/4P1P1/1p1p4/1P1P4/K7/8/8//

Surprisingly, the positions with W Ke5 and B Kg8 and B Kg8 have both
occurred twice before. Black loses on time trying to find his only legal
move. The only way White can win leads to 3-fold repetition. Is it fair
that Black should lose?

And is it fair that one can lose on time with only one legal move!?

And something serious I don't know the answer to - can one lose on time
while considering a draw offer, or can one accept the offer after one's
flag falls?


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