[W126 Coupe] 560 SEC cracked engine block . . . DeturnedEngines?

[Henric]

Currently I have 2.82 MB in W126 sedan and 3.06 GT in the W126 coupe.   
Both perform flawlessly and the boost in acceleration at all speeds is  
wonderfully welcome.  I have not gauged the loss in MPG but the  
drivability trumps the negligible loss of economy.

-h


On Nov 9, 2010, at 8:57 AM, Ernie Stephens wrote:


> Barry,

> How has this affected your gas mileage?

> Ernie

> ----- Original Message -----

> From: Barry Corno

> To: Mercedes Coupes Mailing Lists

> Sent: Tuesday, November 09, 2010 6:05 AM

> Subject: Re: [W126 Coupe] 560 SEC cracked engine block . . .  

> DeturnedEngines?

>

> Ernie,

>   I exchanged my rear end from 248's to 307's  big difference.

>

> B.C.

> From: mbcoupes-bounces at mbcoupes.com [mailto:mbcoupes-bounces at mbcoupes.com 

> ] On Behalf Of Ernie Stephens

> Sent: Monday, November 08, 2010 6:52 PM

> To: Mercedes Coupes Mailing Lists

> Subject: Re: [W126 Coupe] 560 SEC cracked engine block . . .  

> DeturnedEngines?

>

> Thanks Axel, I'll check that switch and wiring.  As for the rest of  

> it, I might take the car into a muffler shop and be happy enough  

> with what they can do.

>

> Thanks again,

> Ernie

> ----- Original Message -----

> From: Axel Wulff

> To: mbcoupes at mbcoupes.com

> Sent: Monday, November 08, 2010 7:31 PM

> Subject: Re: [W126 Coupe] 560 SEC cracked engine block . . .  

> Deturned Engines?

>

> Hey Ernie,

>

> Yes, the North American engines were seriously de-tuned compared to  

> their Euro brethren.

>

> The US 5.6L M117 V8 put out only 238 hp while the Euro ECE engine  

> was rated at 300 hp.

>

> Getting more power out of the US engine is very difficult as the  

> pistons, camshafts, fuel distributor, exhaust, etc., would have to  

> be swapped out.

>

> Your best option on a US engine is to change the differential.  

> Changing out the US exhaust system can add about 10 hp, but other  

> than that......

>

> Have you checked out your kick-down switch?

> There is a switch underneath the accelerator pedal and your  

> transmission should downshift when it engages. If it doesn't, the  

> problem may be as simple as a disconnected wire.

>

> Regards,

> Axel J. Wulff

> 610-731-5453 Cellular

> 610-572-4611 Home

>

>

>

>

> From: stevetsg at msn.com

> To: mbcoupes at mbcoupes.com

> Date: Sun, 7 Nov 2010 21:20:43 -0700

> Subject: Re: [W126 Coupe] 560 SEC cracked engine block . . .  

> Deturned Engines?

>

> Axel,

>

> If I understand what you're saying, the M117 has been detuned for  

> the USA market?  That would explain why performance is somewhat  

> unimpressive.  I have a hunch that that there is another 15% to 25%   

> of thrust just waiting to be unleashed hiding under the hood.

>

> There was a time when I could floor the pedal and I'd get a boost as  

> if it had been kicked down into passing gear.   But even then it  

> didn't seem right; there was a 2 to 3 sec delay before that boost  

> kicked in.  I'm not into flooring the pedal but it is nice to know  

> that you have the extra power available if you need it.  It seems to  

> me that I lost that passing gear feature when components of my air  

> conditioner were removed and replaced.  Have you or anyone else  

> reading this ever experienced anything like this?

>

> Ernie

> I

>

>

> ----- Original Message -----

> From: Axel Wulff

> To: diefenbach at kingcon.com ; mbcoupes at mbcoupes.com

> Sent: Sunday, November 07, 2010 5:31 PM

> Subject: Re: [W126 Coupe] 560 SEC cracked engine block

>

> Dick,

>

> Mercedes-Benz made a number of different versions of the M117  

> engine, depending on the various national rules & regulations around  

> the world.

>

> The engines would also evolve over the life of the W126 cars as  

> better technology came available.

>

> The three major groups are:

> - Euro, high-compression, high emissions, high horsepower

> - North America, mid-compression, low emissions with catalytic  

> converters and air pumps (California), low horsepower

> - Very low compression engines for primitive countries (Africa,  

> China, etc.) with very low quality gasoline. About the same output  

> as the North American engines.

>

>

>

> Regards,

> Axel J. Wulff

> 610-731-5453 Cellular

> 610-572-4611 Home

>

>

>

>

> From: diefenbach at kingcon.com

> To: mbcoupes at mbcoupes.com

> Date: Sun, 7 Nov 2010 17:40:26 -0500

> Subject: Re: [W126 Coupe] 560 SEC cracked engine block

>

> I find Marcus' experience intriguing.  However,  I am wondering if  

> anyone can tell me about all the major differences between US & Euro  

> (would this include Australian and Asian) SEC engines?

>

> Dick

> Danville, VT

>

>

>

> Very interesting story, Marcus.

>

> I think it's for very different reasons than my problem - I have had  

> no rough idling, my

> engine was running 100% for more than three years of ownership (I am  

> the second owner),

> and it's almost certainly driving without coolant (caused by a head  

> gasket failure) that

> caused my block to crack.

>

> Glad your story had a happy ending, as I hope mine will!

>

> all the best,

> Dawid

>

> On 06 Nov 2010, at 12:36 AM, Marcus Johnson wrote:

>

> This is an interesting thread for me as I also had a cracked engine  

> block.

>

> I wonder if there are any parallels in Dawid's case?

>

> It was as a result of mechanical ineptitude, not wear and tear or  

> engine stress.

>

> The 'experts' agreed that they had never heard of such a thing and  

> that the blocks are pretty bulletproof.

>

> I have an Australian-delivered 1989 560 SEC. Blue-black with grey  

> interior, lowered on H&R's and with 18x10 / 18 x 8.5 18" AMG rims.

>

> In my case, this all began after the car began idling roughly. After  

> several things were tried, the diagnosis by Mechanic #1 was that the  

> heads needed to be reconditioned.

>

> They were pulled and found to be very clogged. The car had less than  

> 100k but the previous owner had only ever driven in town at low  

> speeds and not for long periods.

>

> After machining, they were put back on the engine and everything  

> that could also be replaced such as old, deteriorating rubber parts  

> was done at the same time. I expected a smooth idle. But this never  

> happened even after a lot of mucking around. The mechanic believed  

> that the exhaust manifold was warped and wanted to bring in an  

> engineer to check it.

>

> By now, I had had enough and the expenses were piling up. This just  

> didn't seem to make sense. I continued to drive the car and just  

> felt generally cheated and pissed off.

>

> I then took the car to Mechanic #2 who was a 'German car expert'. He  

> looked over the car and showed me that the heads (and the exhaust  

> manifolds) had not been tightened correctly and in places were  

> almost finger tight. So much for following the correct MB tightening  

> method.

>

> As a result, the heads had been allowing enough air in between the  

> block to cause the rough idle. No problem, we can have them machined  

> and dressed (again) and all should be fine. The heads were sent off  

> again and came back with lovely flat and shiny decks.

>

> Once bolted on, the rough idle was better but certainly not 'glass  

> smooth'. He had bad news. The block, most likely as a result of the  

> heads 'walking', had cracked. This may or may not have been  

> repairable, but the engine would need to be pulled down and  

> everything carefully examined. Many hours, many dollars.

>

> The alternative was to find a replacement or reconditioned engine.  

> Fortunately, one was located and installed. And again, my  

> expectation was for as-new performance, idle and overall enjoyment.  

> Nope, still idling rough but just in a different way. By now, six  

> months had elapsed and both my patience and bank balance were  

> wearing thin.

>

> After more inspection, diagnosis and head-scratching, Mechanic#2  

> declared through his bristly German moustache that he 'vas happy'.  

> Really, what he was saying was 'go away'. I went.

>

> After parking the car in disillusionment for some time, I spied a  

> local MB mechanic and went in for a chat. This guy asked that I tell  

> him little and leave the car with him to go through his checklist.  

> After some time, he came back with a solution. It had been driving  

> him nuts and he was unable to sleep at night. I had actually been  

> sold a high-compression Euro block as a replacement. Which made  

> sense when he did a compression check and the numbers were higher  

> than usual for the de-tuned Australian blocks.

>

> The engine and the electronic management systems were from different  

> parts of the world (no emissions controls for Euro motors that were  

> mandatory in Australia, for instance) and were unable to talk to  

> each other. He developed some work-arounds and the engine and  

> electronic are now on speaking terms. The car idles smoothly and is  

> quick off the mark, much more so than with the Australian 560 SEC  

> engine.

>

> So, this has been a long, arduous and expensive exercise.

>

> So yes, a cracked engine block is a possibility. I know, from  

> painful experience.

>

> My advice is to find a mechanic who knows these cars. They will all  

> say they do and have words like 'Mercedes-Benz specialist' on a  

> board outside their workshop. But finding the real deal is hard. you  

> will probably know by a couple of indicators: they will be in their  

> 50's and their apprenticeship years will have been in the 1980's.  

> And they will be busy and probably not need the work so you may have  

> to wait while they personally service a long queue of MB owners who  

> have discovered them.

>

> My other advice is to think carefully about cutting your losses. I  

> know you love your car, as I do, but this stuff becomes the  

> equivalent of a second mortgage.

>

> Hope you get a good result.

>

>

> Cheers,

>

> marcus johnson

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> On 06/11/2010, at 6:33 AM, mbcoupes-request at mbcoupes.com wrote:

>

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>

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>

>

> Today's Topics:

>

>   1. Re: 560SEC cracked engine block - how?? (Dean Slone)

>   2. Re: 560SEC cracked engine block - how?? (Dawid Loubser)

>   3. So, I need a M117.968 Block and Pistons -

>      www.mercedesengines.net opinions? (Dawid Loubser)

>

>

> ----------------------------------------------------------------------

>

> Message: 1

> Date: Fri, 5 Nov 2010 09:01:04 -0700

> From: "Dean Slone" <daslone at saber.net>

> Subject: Re: [W126 Coupe] 560SEC cracked engine block - how??

> To: "Mercedes Coupes Mailing Lists" <mbcoupes at mbcoupes.com>

> Message-ID: <EE092F044B574784A12F22D8F856B84D at D2DXLQ51>

> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";

> reply-type=response

>

> Sorry for your troubles but maybe we can help each other.

>

> I do not know where you are located but one of your options might be  

> to buy

> my 1981 500SEC, chassis 000474.

>

> Some particulars on my car at:

>

> http://www.benzworld.org/forums/w126-s-se-sec-sel-sd/1446405-1983-euro-500-sec-lorinser-post.html

>

>

> Don't let the 1983 vin number fool you as it has all US officials  

> for 27

> years.  If anyone in Germany has access to old registration records  

> and vin

> numbers, I would like to know who owned WDB12604412000474 in  

> 1983-1984,

> BEFORE being imported to the US of A.    Interpol is not interested  

> as I am

> not a police official.

>

> No rust through or major damage, just small dings that I have  

> found.  Rusty

> spots are only surface caused by cracks in the paint.  Come and get  

> it, I am

> ready to deal.

>

> DazzleOne (DASlone)

>

>               SLONE REALTY

>   DEAN SLONE   -   Broker/Owner

> P.O. Box 5291   -   Eureka, CA 95502

>        Broker at SloneRealty.com

>             daslone at saber.net

>                (707) 499-4999

>

> ----- Original Message -----

> From: "Dawid Loubser" <dawidl at solms.co.za>

> To: "Mercedes Coupes Mailing Lists" <mbcoupes at mbcoupes.com>

> Sent: Thursday, November 04, 2010 10:32 PM

> Subject: Re: [W126 Coupe] 560SEC cracked engine block - how??

>

>

> Attila, if what you are saying is correct, that's likely

> the cause. Its very possible that enough coolant escaped while

> I moved the car to a safe spot for this to happen.

>

> Darn, an expensive lesson to learn! I'm going to survey my

> options and contact some people after the week-end.

>

> Dawid

>

>

> On 04 Nov 2010, at 11:02 PM, Attila wrote:

>

> You were likely down on your coolant, quite a bit.  Your

> warning light should have come on, long before the block

> cracked.  You can run these 117 engines for 30 seconds,

> without any coolant.  That's it, no more.  In the States

> there are about 3 reputable rebuilders who will take yours

> as exchange and send you a rebuild, at around $5k to 6k.

> They may be able to build you a Euro version, for about

> the same.  It's worth asking, in these economic times. Of

> course, it would be great fun to custom build your own.

> I wouldn't take a chance on any of the original parts,

> even if all tests come back positive.

>

> -----Original Message-----

> From: mbcoupes-bounces at mbcoupes.com

> [mailto:mbcoupes-bounces at mbcoupes.com ]

> On Behalf Of Dawid Loubser

> Sent: Thursday, November 04, 2010 12:34 PM

> To: Mercedes Coupes Mailing Lists

> Subject: [W126 Coupe] 560SEC cracked engine block - how??

>

> Well, it's happened -

>

> Without any particular overheating, or other problems, my regularly-

> maintained

> 1990 560SEC Euro has developed a crack in the engine block (my

> mechanic just showed

> it to me today) and thus needs to be replaced (at immense cost,

> obviously). He will

> present the options to me tomorrow. Basically, my car did start to

> overheat, and steamed

> out of the exhaust, but I immediately stopped driving the car, and

> towed it to my local

> specialist. I can't believe it overheated for long enough to cause

> this sort of damage,

> I barely expected a ruptured head gasket.

>

> This all comes as a bit of a shock to me, I know this is going to be

> incredibly expensive

> to sort out. I would like some opinion from the experts around here -

> has this happened to

> you? Why would this happen?

>

> I am looking at other options, such as simply finding a good other

> engine (which I might

> have a good lead on) - but honestly speaking, I am still in a bit of

> shock.

>

> kind regards to you all (I've been a lurker on this wonderful list for

> a *long* time - too long,

> in fact)

>

> Dawid

> The MB Coupes Website!

> W126 SEC Mailing List

> Postings remain property of MB Coupes, L.L.C.

>

> The MB Coupes Website!

> W126 SEC Mailing List

> Postings remain property of MB Coupes, L.L.C.

>

> The MB Coupes Website!

> W126 SEC Mailing List

> Postings remain property of MB Coupes, L.L.C.

>

>

>

>

> =======

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>

> ------------------------------

>

> Message: 2

> Date: Fri, 5 Nov 2010 21:14:35 +0200

> From: Dawid Loubser <dawidl at solms.co.za>

> Subject: Re: [W126 Coupe] 560SEC cracked engine block - how??

> To: Mercedes Coupes Mailing Lists <mbcoupes at mbcoupes.com>

> Message-ID: <8417D013-26A9-4F27-B7A4-21FDAF48329F at solms.co.za>

> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes

>

> Thank you Dean - you are not the first list member to contact me with

> an offer

> to sell his car to me! Fact is, I have no intention of getting rid of

> my SEC, and

> even the most expensive engine repair job will not cost as much as

> replacing

> my (mint) 1990 560SEC.

>

> Also, as per my original e-mail, I am in South Africa, so it's not

> possible for me

> to bring a whole car over here (though I might have to get a rebuilt

> engine block

> from the US!) and I really wouldn't trade my car for an earlier-

> generation SEC.

>

> all the best,

> Dawid

>

> On 05 Nov 2010, at 6:01 PM, Dean Slone wrote:

>

> Sorry for your troubles but maybe we can help each other.

>

> I do not know where you are located but one of your options might be

> to buy my 1981 500SEC, chassis 000474.

>

> Some particulars on my car at:

>

> http://www.benzworld.org/forums/w126-s-se-sec-sel-sd/1446405-1983-euro-500-sec-lorinser-post.html

>

>

> Don't let the 1983 vin number fool you as it has all US officials

> for 27 years.  If anyone in Germany has access to old registration

> records and vin numbers, I would like to know who owned

> WDB12604412000474 in 1983-1984, BEFORE being imported to the US of

> A.    Interpol is not interested as I am not a police official.

>

> No rust through or major damage, just small dings that I have

> found.  Rusty spots are only surface caused by cracks in the paint.

> Come and get it, I am ready to deal.

>

> DazzleOne (DASlone)

>

>             SLONE REALTY

> DEAN SLONE   -   Broker/Owner

> P.O. Box 5291   -   Eureka, CA 95502

>      Broker at SloneRealty.com

>           daslone at saber.net

>              (707) 499-4999

>

> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dawid Loubser"

> <dawidl at solms.co.za>

> To: "Mercedes Coupes Mailing Lists" <mbcoupes at mbcoupes.com>

> Sent: Thursday, November 04, 2010 10:32 PM

> Subject: Re: [W126 Coupe] 560SEC cracked engine block - how??

>

>

> Attila, if what you are saying is correct, that's likely

> the cause. Its very possible that enough coolant escaped while

> I moved the car to a safe spot for this to happen.

>

> Darn, an expensive lesson to learn! I'm going to survey my

> options and contact some people after the week-end.

>

> Dawid

>

>

> On 04 Nov 2010, at 11:02 PM, Attila wrote:

>

> You were likely down on your coolant, quite a bit.  Your

> warning light should have come on, long before the block

> cracked.  You can run these 117 engines for 30 seconds,

> without any coolant.  That's it, no more.  In the States

> there are about 3 reputable rebuilders who will take yours

> as exchange and send you a rebuild, at around $5k to 6k.

> They may be able to build you a Euro version, for about

> the same.  It's worth asking, in these economic times. Of

> course, it would be great fun to custom build your own.

> I wouldn't take a chance on any of the original parts,

> even if all tests come back positive.

>

> -----Original Message-----

> From: mbcoupes-bounces at mbcoupes.com [mailto:mbcoupes-bounces at mbcoupes.com

> ]

> On Behalf Of Dawid Loubser

> Sent: Thursday, November 04, 2010 12:34 PM

> To: Mercedes Coupes Mailing Lists

> Subject: [W126 Coupe] 560SEC cracked engine block - how??

>

> Well, it's happened -

>

> Without any particular overheating, or other problems, my regularly-

> maintained

> 1990 560SEC Euro has developed a crack in the engine block (my

> mechanic just showed

> it to me today) and thus needs to be replaced (at immense cost,

> obviously). He will

> present the options to me tomorrow. Basically, my car did start to

> overheat, and steamed

> out of the exhaust, but I immediately stopped driving the car, and

> towed it to my local

> specialist. I can't believe it overheated for long enough to cause

> this sort of damage,

> I barely expected a ruptured head gasket.

>

> This all comes as a bit of a shock to me, I know this is going to be

> incredibly expensive

> to sort out. I would like some opinion from the experts around

> here -

> has this happened to

> you? Why would this happen?

>

> I am looking at other options, such as simply finding a good other

> engine (which I might

> have a good lead on) - but honestly speaking, I am still in a bit of

> shock.

>

> kind regards to you all (I've been a lurker on this wonderful list

> for

> a *long* time - too long,

> in fact)

>

> Dawid

> The MB Coupes Website!

> W126 SEC Mailing List

> Postings remain property of MB Coupes, L.L.C.

>

> The MB Coupes Website!

> W126 SEC Mailing List

> Postings remain property of MB Coupes, L.L.C.

>

> The MB Coupes Website!

> W126 SEC Mailing List

> Postings remain property of MB Coupes, L.L.C.

>

>

>

>

> =======

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> Postings remain property of MB Coupes, L.L.C.

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>

>

> ------------------------------

>

> Message: 3

> Date: Fri, 5 Nov 2010 21:33:08 +0200

> From: Dawid Loubser <dawidl at solms.co.za>

> Subject: [W126 Coupe] So, I need a M117.968 Block and Pistons -

> www.mercedesengines.net

>           opinions?

> To: Mercedes Coupes Mailing Lists <mbcoupes at mbcoupes.com>

> Message-ID: <FE4E9219-053F-48E5-98C0-17A159072614 at solms.co.za>

> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; Format="flowed";

> DelSp="yes"

>

> Hi Guys,

>

> While I am working on local options, I am pre-emptively also having

> a look at sourcing a replacement (remanufactured) block and pistons

> overseas (U.S?) for my 560SEC engine that developed a cracked block

> after the head gasket ruptured.

>

> What are your opinions of http://www.mercedesengines.net ? Any other

> sources

> I should be looking at for a decent price? I am sure that shipping  

> it to

> South Africa will be very expensive, but there are usually many  

> options,

> depending on whom one contacts, especially if one can get it included

> as part of a shipment of somebody who regularly brings in engine  

> parts,

> so I am not too worried yet.

>

> Any opinions and suggested would be greatly welcomed. Help me get her

> up and running again!

>

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>

>

>

> kind regards,

> Dawid

>

> ------------------------------

>

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>

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