[W126 Coupe] Additional 560 SEC Exhaust and performance questions

johnfolger johnfolger at earthlink.net
Sat Mar 1 13:46:15 EST 2008



My '88 560 is getting a rebuilt and "beefed" transmission. Next stage is to
improve exhaust flow. Are the m116 log manifolds the best I can do, or are
there headers available? I also want duel exhaust and was told that 2 1/2
inch Flow master pipes will help the breathing. I'm planning on
supercharging after cam work to try to upgrade to AMG performance. What else
should be on my list?
Thanks
John

1988 SEC 560 124k "gunmetal grey" with matching lower body and wheels
1992 Dodge Dakota for puddle jumping
-----Original Message-----
From: mbcoupes-bounces at mbcoupes.com [mailto:mbcoupes-bounces at mbcoupes.com]
On Behalf Of mbcoupes-request at mbcoupes.com
Sent: Saturday, March 01, 2008 12:16 PM
To: mbcoupes at mbcoupes.com
Subject: MBCOUPES Digest, Vol 43, Issue 1

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Today's Topics:

1. Re: meeting. (Markus Meyer)
2. Re: Ride hight (richard jaffe)
3. AMG 2-PCS vs. AMG 3-PCS (Franco)
4. Re: AMG 2-PCS vs. AMG 3-PCS (Jonathan Hodgman)
5. Re: AMG 2-PCS vs. AMG 3-PCS (Bruce Mendel)
6. Re: AMG 2-PCS vs. AMG 3-PCS (John Poole)
7. Re: Buzzing Fuel Pump (John Howard)
8. 380sec Exhaust system uprgrade (M0NM0N at aol.com)
9. Re: 380sec Exhaust system uprgrade (Jonathan)
10. Re: 380sec Exhaust system uprgrade (Mister McGoo)
11. Re: 380sec Exhaust system uprgrade (Jonathan Hodgman)


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Fri, 29 Feb 2008 10:16:53 -0700
From: Markus Meyer <mfm at meyerprobateproperties.com>
Subject: Re: [W126 Coupe] meeting.
To: Mercedes Coupes Mailing Lists <mbcoupes at mbcoupes.com>
Message-ID:

<20080229101653.5abd5bb6c1e022cd50c47094d09c8c0f.8ad6a0525b.wbe at email.secure
server.net>

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Message: 2
Date: Fri, 29 Feb 2008 14:06:49 -0500
From: "richard jaffe" <rsjaffe1 at msn.com>
Subject: Re: [W126 Coupe] Ride hight
To: "Mercedes Coupes Mailing Lists" <mbcoupes at mbcoupes.com>
Message-ID: <BAY117-DAV6059BB476E72D8F04DD389B140 at phx.gbl>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

Hey Axel,

The right side pipe comes out of the resonator and does what is essentially
a flattened S pattern past the fuel pump. I thought that might be a problem
too but a talented muffler and pipe guy pulled it off with a 3/4 inch air
gap between the pipe and the pump. Plus there is a piece of heat shielding
for added protection. Going on six years now without any problems.

Rich
----- Original Message -----
From: Axel Wulff<mailto:axelwulff at hotmail.com>
To: Mercedes Coupes Mailing Lists<mailto:mbcoupes at mbcoupes.com>
Sent: Thursday, February 28, 2008 10:50 PM
Subject: Re: [W126 Coupe] Ride hight


Rich,

I noticed you have dual exhaust pipes.

How did you route the pipe to the right side?

Satish has a dual pipe setup on his car and he routed the pipe behind the
bumper. I guess you don't want to get too close to the fuel pumps.

Regards,
Axel J. Wulff
610-731-5453 Cellular
610-572-4611 Home




----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: rsjaffe1 at msn.com
To: mbcoupes at mbcoupes.com
Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2008 22:27:00 -0500
Subject: Re: [W126 Coupe] Ride hight

Photo E-mail Play
slideshow<http://photos.msn.com/Viewing/Album.aspx?PST=8nK2AN1B!1LmPLmC9HXTY
2aXdZmWInBNy2hUmzCQZvQREzvCjBxygSfanUDgmF6A*6BTUMo2EcLWSfw9yi9AnQ$$> |
Download images
<http://photos.msn.com/viewing/Photos.aspx?pi_Type=SlideshowTask&Task=Downlo
ad&stppData=&pi_ImagesOnly=1&Folder=nBuRgwTGIGhKPWRvXLqz1FOmxwlbPy9QMDg7xgLs
tJ4$&User=LJjObqfwa77RvnkdeftclsqlqmB9GTUa&pi_NoLogin=1>

Pete,
I've got H&R sport springs on my 85 Euro - they dropped it approx 1.5
inches all the way around. Cornering and roll resistance are noticeably
improved. However, some cars may develop excessive negative camber in the
rear when dropped - might have something to do with the condition of the
rear diff mount. The attached photo will give you a good idea of the
lowered ride height.

Rich Jaffe
85 500 SEC Euro
83 300
SD<http://photos.msn.com/Viewing/Album.aspx?PST=8nK2AN1B!1LmPLmC9HXTY2aXdZmW
InBNy2hUmzCQZvQREzvCjBxygSfanUDgmF6A*6BTUMo2EcLWSfw9yi9AnQ$$>


----- Original Message -----
From: Pete<mailto:hwilliamsjr2 at cox.net>
To: Mercedes Coupes Mailing Lists<mailto:mbcoupes at mbcoupes.com>
Sent: Thursday, February 28, 2008 2:10 PM
Subject: [W126 Coupe] Ride hight


Hello all,
My '83 500 SEC AMG looks like it rides a little high all the way
around and a little more in the rear. Not much, just noticable. Are there
spring sets or lowering kits out there that are mostly cosmetic. There is a
lot of room in the wheel wells. I don't want a "low rider", just enough to
level it out. I'd like to see one done before I would lower it. Are there
air bags available? This thing rides like it's glued to the road. I'd rather
leave it as is than lose that.
Any ideas?
Pete Williams
1972 350SL 4.5, 257K Miles
1983 500 SEC AMG, 110K Miles ??
MBCA, Central Oklahoma section

A good friend will come and bail you out of jail...but,
a true friend will be sitting next to you saying, "Damn...that was
fun!"
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Postings remain property of MB Coupes, L.L.C.
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Message: 3
Date: Fri, 29 Feb 2008 13:21:53 -0700
From: "Franco" <dusktilldawn at cox.net>
Subject: [W126 Coupe] AMG 2-PCS vs. AMG 3-PCS
To: <mbcoupes at mbcoupes.com>
Message-ID: <47C86960.000006.00532 at A-12BE4A5BDBA74>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

AMG 2-PCS (8,5 x 17 et30) & AMG THE 3-PCS (8,5 x 17 et18)
I know it's the offset is different but the question is will they fit on the
560 or what model where they made for

? ciao, Frank


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Message: 4
Date: Fri, 29 Feb 2008 17:01:43 -0500
From: "Jonathan Hodgman" <jhodgman at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [W126 Coupe] AMG 2-PCS vs. AMG 3-PCS
To: "Mercedes Coupes Mailing Lists" <mbcoupes at mbcoupes.com>
Message-ID:
<1d2f90170802291401s375232e4n96767e9082c3def at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

If i'm not mistaken the 30's are for 124's..

Jonathan


On Fri, Feb 29, 2008 at 3:21 PM, Franco <dusktilldawn at cox.net> wrote:


> AMG 2-PCS (8,5 x 17 et30) & AMG THE 3-PCS (8,5 x 17 et18)

> I know it's the offset is different but the question is will they fit on

> the 560 or what model where they made for

>

>

> ? ciao, Frank

>

>

>

>

> The MB Coupes Website!

> W126 SEC Mailing List

> Postings remain property of MB Coupes, L.L.C.

>




--
Blue Ridge Mercedes/AMG East
Offering Enthusiast Service, Restoration and Modification.
Providing quality parts to discriminating customers in all parts of the
world.
Located in the Greater Atlanta area.
http://www.blueridgemb.com
404 805 1357

1996 S600 Euro "Scharnhorst"
1991 560 SEC Full Euro ECE
1991 560 SEC 226Hp/271ft/lbs:)
1989 560 SEC AMG (N.Amer 250/295)
1986 560 SEL AMG 6.0L 32V
1980 280 SE Euro
1978 300D TMU
1987 560 SEL 162K Midnight Blue on Gray RIP:(
2006 Z4 3.0Si M spec 6sp
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Message: 5
Date: Fri, 29 Feb 2008 17:06:02 -0500
From: "Bruce Mendel" <brucem105 at comcast.net>
Subject: Re: [W126 Coupe] AMG 2-PCS vs. AMG 3-PCS
To: "Mercedes Coupes Mailing Lists" <mbcoupes at mbcoupes.com>
Message-ID: <011301c87b1f$46751520$0302a8c0 at HomeOffice>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

correct
----- Original Message -----
From: Jonathan Hodgman
To: Mercedes Coupes Mailing Lists
Sent: Friday, February 29, 2008 5:01 PM
Subject: Re: [W126 Coupe] AMG 2-PCS vs. AMG 3-PCS


If i'm not mistaken the 30's are for 124's..

Jonathan



On Fri, Feb 29, 2008 at 3:21 PM, Franco <dusktilldawn at cox.net> wrote:

AMG 2-PCS (8,5 x 17 et30) & AMG THE 3-PCS (8,5 x 17 et18)
I know it's the offset is different but the question is will they
fit on the 560 or what model where they made for

? ciao, Frank











The MB Coupes Website!
W126 SEC Mailing List
Postings remain property of MB Coupes, L.L.C.




--
Blue Ridge Mercedes/AMG East
Offering Enthusiast Service, Restoration and Modification.
Providing quality parts to discriminating customers in all parts of the
world.
Located in the Greater Atlanta area.
http://www.blueridgemb.com
404 805 1357

1996 S600 Euro "Scharnhorst"
1991 560 SEC Full Euro ECE
1991 560 SEC 226Hp/271ft/lbs:)
1989 560 SEC AMG (N.Amer 250/295)
1986 560 SEL AMG 6.0L 32V
1980 280 SE Euro
1978 300D TMU
1987 560 SEL 162K Midnight Blue on Gray RIP:(
2006 Z4 3.0Si M spec 6sp


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The MB Coupes Website!
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Postings remain property of MB Coupes, L.L.C.
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Message: 6
Date: Fri, 29 Feb 2008 22:11:50 +0000 (GMT)
From: John Poole <ajohnpoole at btinternet.com>
Subject: Re: [W126 Coupe] AMG 2-PCS vs. AMG 3-PCS
To: Mercedes Coupes Mailing Lists <mbcoupes at mbcoupes.com>
Message-ID: <787899.14885.qm at web87002.mail.ird.yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

I don`t know about the ET30 rims but the 8.5 x 17 ET18s are perfect for the
front of our W126s or the R129 SLs, I imagine they would fit on the back
axle however the correct 10 x 17 ET17s look meatier/better, plus one has an
extra 3 inches of tyre to play with :-)

All the best, John Poole `91 560 SEC

Franco <dusktilldawn at cox.net> wrote:
v\:* { BEHAVIOR: url (#default#vml) } v\:* { BEHAVIOR: url
(#default#vml) } ABF560D8-4583-11D608878-0050DA2761C4 2.000000
Letter Letter\pinuptoons27.imf Pin Up Toons Pin Up Toons Pin Up Toons 27
?? artwork by Rion Vernon
VHJhZGVNYXJrTGluaywyNSxodHRwOi8vd3d3LnBpbnVwdG9vbnMuY29tLElNQkwxLDQxLIFJgUkk
MDiNmYEowU2JjcGVTYWFKJmBwcGdwU2BgY2BKCSRnZmFNIlJLElNQkwyLDAsLElNQkwzLDAsLA==
http://uk.f870.mail.yahoo.com/ym/Upload?Data=upl2018719269 no-repeat
#eae798 right bottom X-ASN,X-ASH,X-AN,X-AP,X-AD ;
AMG 2-PCS (8,5 x 17 et30) & AMG THE 3-PCS (8,5 x 17 et18)
I know it's the offset is different but the question is will they fit on
the 560 or what model where they made for

??? ciao, Frank





The MB Coupes Website!
W126 SEC Mailing List
Postings remain property of MB Coupes, L.L.C.


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Message: 7
Date: Fri, 29 Feb 2008 19:37:37 -0500
From: "John Howard" <howardjnl at comcast.net>
Subject: Re: [W126 Coupe] Buzzing Fuel Pump
To: "'Mercedes Coupes Mailing Lists'" <mbcoupes at mbcoupes.com>
Message-ID: <006101c87b34$73304c00$0f01a8c0 at Howardpc>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Carl,
I have a 1991 560 SEC with 149k miles on it and it looks and runs great!
It's my daily driver, and I drive the hell out of it. Cost of repairs?
Hell, this car, my '87 300SDL, and 300TD are very inexpensive to maintain
myself, I spent much more for parts and stuff on the American vehicles I've
had over the years and they didn't last so long either.
Most parts are fairly inexpensive, when I've rarely needed one. I've
never had to change anything expensive like a fuel pump, injection pump
(diesels) or engine parts. Even the timing change is fairly cheap as
compared to an American vehicle. The most expensive part by far that I've
ever had to purchase was a transmission for my 300SDL at 260k miles ($1,300)
and I changed it myself. I love working on these cars, most things are
designed to be repairable, unlike my American cars.
Concerning fuel pump "buzzing": the twin pumps on my car have made a
noticeable buzzing sound since I bought it at 87k miles. At that time I
bought a spare accumulator thinking I might have an internally leaking one,
but I ran through some tests and stuff folks on this site suggested and all
is good. I cannot hear the pumps from inside the car, just outside from the
rear and right rear.
Just my two cents from watching this email thread.
John


-----Original Message-----
From: mbcoupes-bounces at mbcoupes.com [mailto:mbcoupes-bounces at mbcoupes.com]
On Behalf Of Carl Hansen
Sent: Wednesday, February 27, 2008 9:14 AM
To: Mercedes Coupes Mailing Lists
Subject: Re: [W126 Coupe] Buzzing Fuel Pump

Holy smoke, I keep reading about all the problems and high cost of repairs
and parts you guys are having with your Mercedes-Benz's I am getting scared.

Perhaps I should sell mine and just stick to my Volvo's.

Carl Hansen



--
I am using the free version of SPAMfighter for private users.
It has removed 24 spam emails to date.
Paying users do not have this message in their emails.
Get the free SPAMfighter here: http://www.spamfighter.com/len


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W126 SEC Mailing List
Postings remain property of MB Coupes, L.L.C.




------------------------------

Message: 8
Date: Sat, 1 Mar 2008 01:59:21 EST
From: M0NM0N at aol.com
Subject: [W126 Coupe] 380sec Exhaust system uprgrade
To: mbcoupes at mbcoupes.com
Message-ID: <c16.31c95fc6.34fa58c9 at aol.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

I Own a 1982 380 sec and am planning to change the whole exhaust pipe with
dual exhaust. I was wondering if anyone could give me some idea's on how I
may
install two separate exhaust pipes for either exhaust-manifold. is it
possible? or worth the work? could a muffler shop do it? and what catalytic

converter and muffler brand should get, what piping size should I use?

Thanks

Ramon



**************Ideas to please picky eaters. Watch video on AOL Living.
(http://living.aol.com/video/how-to-please-your-picky-eater/rachel-campos-du
ffy/
2050827?NCID=aolcmp00300000002598)
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Message: 9
Date: Sat, 01 Mar 2008 10:26:27 -0500
From: Jonathan <jhodgman at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [W126 Coupe] 380sec Exhaust system uprgrade
To: Mercedes Coupes Mailing Lists <mbcoupes at mbcoupes.com>
Message-ID: <47C975A3.7070303 at gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; Format="flowed"

I'd run 2' pipes for a 380, Magnaflow metal substrate/spun cast cats.
I'd also run Magnaflow muffler and resonators if you are looking to
replace Everything.

You also want to incorporate an X pipe if possible, worst case an H..the
380 Needs all the help it can get on the bottom end.

How aggressive a note are you looking for? If you want something that
Really growls two cats and a two in/two out Magnaflow would be my setup
of choice.

Are you going stainless or aluminized? Does your shop have a mandrel
bend machine?

Jonathan

M0NM0N at aol.com wrote:

> I Own a 1982 380 sec and am planning to change the whole exhaust

> pipe with dual exhaust. I was wondering if anyone could give me some

> idea's on how I may install two separate exhaust pipes for

> either exhaust-manifold. is it possible? or worth the work? could a

> muffler shop do it? and what catalytic converter and muffler brand

> should get, what piping size should I use?

>

> Thanks

>

> Ramon

>

>

>

> ------------------------------------------------------------------------

> Delicious ideas to please the pickiest eaters. Watch the video on AOL

> Living.

>

<http://living.aol.com/video/how-to-please-your-picky-eater/rachel-campos-du
ffy/2050827?NCID=aolcmp00300000002598>

> ------------------------------------------------------------------------

>

> The MB Coupes Website!

> W126 SEC Mailing List

> Postings remain property of MB Coupes, L.L.C.



--
Blue Ridge Mercedes
Offering Enthusiast Service, Restoration and Modification.
Providing quality parts to discriminating customers in all parts of the
world.
Located in the Greater Atlanta area.
http://www.blueridgemb.com
*Updates weekly*

1996 S600 Euro "Scharnhorst"
1991 560 SEC Euro ECE Conv. (for sale)
1991 560 SEC 226Hp/271ft/lbs (TT conversion IP)
1989 560 SEC Euro ECE *Parts*
1988 300 TE
1989 560 SEC AMG (Mech.lifter/radical cam conv.)
1987 AMG Hammer 6.0L 32V
1986 560 SEL 6.0L 32V AMG
1980 280 SE Euro
2006 Z4 3.0Si M-Spec

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Message: 10
Date: Sat, 1 Mar 2008 16:58:49 +0000
From: Mister McGoo <eelploot at hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [W126 Coupe] 380sec Exhaust system uprgrade
To: Mercedes Coupes Mailing Lists <mbcoupes at mbcoupes.com>
Message-ID: <BAY126-W5CE041EEB75B6A643927FCB150 at phx.gbl>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

Ramon;

An alternative if all you intend to do is replace a rotting stock system
with a dual system.....

The early '80's European 380's (and 500's) have dual exhaust systems. You
can make this "conversion" a WHOLE lot easier by finding yourself the 2
exhaust manifolds (from a european 380 SE, SEC or SEL, 1981-1983 you need
BOTH sides). These exhaust systems did not have a catalytic converter. Once
you have the manifolds in place, you can either order the rest of the stock
dual exhaust system, (yes, they are still listed) or have them custom
fabricated, whichever is cheaper (*1), or available where you live. [NOTEZ
BIENS: By using a stock dual system you are removing the catalytic converter
which may need some other consideration, depending where you live. Where I
live, a 1982 model SEC could be classified the same as a 1929 Hupmobile
Opera Coup?... exempt from emission testing. This can be the advantage of
having a "stock" exhaust system ]

Personally, I'd order the stock downpipes (2) and have the rest fabricated,
which any decent muffler shop should be able to do. There are a couple of
seats you would have to fabricate to support the two downpipes after turning
horizontal underneath.

Note *1: That's "cheaper". Not to be confused with "cheap".

- Bellamy


From: M0NM0N at aol.comDate: Sat, 1 Mar 2008 01:59:21 -0500To:
mbcoupes at mbcoupes.comSubject: [W126 Coupe] 380sec Exhaust system uprgrade

I Own a 1982 380 sec and am planning to change the whole exhaust pipe with
dual exhaust. I was wondering if anyone could give me some idea's on how I
may install two separate exhaust pipes for either exhaust-manifold. is it
possible? or worth the work? could a muffler shop do it? and what catalytic
converter and muffler brand should get, what piping size should I use?

Thanks

Ramon


Delicious ideas to please the pickiest eaters. Watch the video on AOL
Living.
_________________________________________________________________

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Message: 11
Date: Sat, 1 Mar 2008 12:14:12 -0500
From: "Jonathan Hodgman" <jhodgman at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [W126 Coupe] 380sec Exhaust system uprgrade
To: "Mercedes Coupes Mailing Lists" <mbcoupes at mbcoupes.com>
Message-ID:
<1d2f90170803010914t4a88f026kd1375f75de83beae at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

I was assuming this was a Euro car, am I mistaken....but after re-reading I
see it does appear that he has the US setup replete w/ crossover.. So yes,
finding a set of M116 log manifolds is about the best you can hope for.

Even if it is emissions exempt I can't find a good reason not to run high
flow cats, you lose less then 2 peak HP...you can't even feel a 2hp loss
while making the emissions 50 state legal!

Jonathan



On Sat, Mar 1, 2008 at 11:58 AM, Mister McGoo <eelploot at hotmail.com> wrote:


> Ramon;

>

> An alternative if all you intend to do is replace a rotting stock system

> with a dual system.....

>

> The early '80's European 380's (and 500's) have dual exhaust systems. You

> can make this "conversion" a WHOLE lot easier by finding yourself the 2

> exhaust manifolds (from a european 380 SE, SEC or SEL, 1981-1983 you need

> BOTH sides). These exhaust systems did not have a catalytic converter.

Once

> you have the manifolds in place, you can either order the rest of the

stock

> dual exhaust system, (yes, they are still listed) or have them custom

> fabricated, whichever is cheaper (*1), or available where you live.

[NOTEZ

> BIENS: By using a stock dual system you are removing the catalytic

converter

> which may need some other consideration, depending where you live. Where

I

> live, a 1982 model SEC could be classified the same as a 1929 Hupmobile

> Opera Coup?... exempt from emission testing. This can be the advantage of

> having a "stock" exhaust system ]

>

> Personally, I'd order the stock downpipes (2) and have the rest

> fabricated, which any decent muffler shop should be able to do. There

are

> a couple of seats you would have to fabricate to support the two downpipes

> after turning horizontal underneath.

>

> Note *1: That's "cheaper". Not to be confused with "cheap".

>

> - Bellamy

>

>

>

>

> ------------------------------

> From: M0NM0N at aol.com

> Date: Sat, 1 Mar 2008 01:59:21 -0500

> To: mbcoupes at mbcoupes.com

> Subject: [W126 Coupe] 380sec Exhaust system uprgrade

>

>

> I Own a 1982 380 sec and am planning to change the whole exhaust

> pipe with dual exhaust. I was wondering if anyone could give me some

idea's

> on how I may install two separate exhaust pipes for either

exhaust-manifold.

> is it possible? or worth the work? could a muffler shop do it? and what

> catalytic converter and muffler brand should get, what piping size should

I

> use?

>

> Thanks

>

> Ramon

>

>

>

> ------------------------------

> Delicious ideas to please the pickiest eaters. Watch the video on AOL

>

Living.<http://living.aol.com/video/how-to-please-your-picky-eater/rachel-ca
mpos-duffy/2050827?NCID=aolcmp00300000002598>

>

>

> ------------------------------

>

> The MB Coupes Website!

> W126 SEC Mailing List

> Postings remain property of MB Coupes, L.L.C.

>




--
Blue Ridge Mercedes/AMG East
Offering Enthusiast Service, Restoration and Modification.
Providing quality parts to discriminating customers in all parts of the
world.
Located in the Greater Atlanta area.
http://www.blueridgemb.com
404 805 1357

1996 S600 Euro "Scharnhorst"
1991 560 SEC Full Euro ECE
1991 560 SEC 226Hp/271ft/lbs:)
1989 560 SEC AMG (N.Amer 250/295)
1986 560 SEL AMG 6.0L 32V
1980 280 SE Euro
1978 300D TMU
1987 560 SEL 162K Midnight Blue on Gray RIP:(
2006 Z4 3.0Si M spec 6sp
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