[LargeFormat] Auto Graflex RB Model Identification

[LNphoto]

On Saturday, September 13, 2003, at 04:54  AM, Clive Warren wrote:

>>> Perhaps Les in tuned in and can answer this one as he is a Graflex 
>>> fan.  There is a new addition to the cameras here - a 4x5 Auto 
>>> Graflex RB. The latest patent date on a plate on the bottom of the 
>>> camera is 1913.
>> That eliminates the original from '06 '08
> snip
>> The RB auto that was made from '21-41 had a folding bed (very!)much 
>> like a speed graphic.  It also had a similar standard that you would 
>> pull out.  Is this what you have?
> snip
>>> There is a detent that seems as though it should lock the back in 
>>> position. It certainly allows you to place the back in the correct 
>>> position but the back tends to rotate if you touch it accidentally 
>>> when using it handheld. There is a little sprung button on the rear 
>>> of the body that if pressed allows the back to revolve freely. Maybe 
>>> the button pin is worn down a bit?
>> <snip>
>>
>> It sounds like the the pin or the pin spring is worn.
>>
>> A couple of questions....
>>
>> Is the hinge for the top in front or in back?
>>
>> I'm not sure if Graflex always put serial numbers in the same 
>> place....but on some Graflexes, the serial number was stamped at 
>> either the right or the left side on the inside of the top, right 
>> next to the chimney.
>
> Hello Les,
>
> Thanks for your reply.
>
>
> The front standard is on rails and extends from the body on geared 
> side rails that have a series of holes drilled in them - presumably to 
> reduce weight. Nothing like a folding Speed Graphic bed.
>
> The hinge for the viewing hood is at the back.
>
> The serial number is on the underside of the flip up section that 
> holds the lens cover and is 43705.

> There is a plate on the bottom of the camera that extends across its 
> width. It has the patent information and is marked at the top, R.B. 
> GRAFLEX.
>

> There is a plate on the side of the camera marked Auto Graflex with 
> shutter speeds,
>
> The flip up section is released by a button under the front standard 
> and is intended to allow lens boards to be removed/replaced.
>
> Series VIIa Protar with combined focal length of 9 1/4" at f6.3
>
> No curved dip and the chimney goes to the front of the camera.

> Cheers,
>            Clive
>
>

Okay I've cut and pasted your post down to "just the facts"

It seems you do have a transitional camera...

Here's a scan from "A review of Graflex" by r. Paine

http://www.twmi.rr.com/lnphoto/rbtele.jpg

On the facing page Paine writes:

"An updated and renamed version of the Telescopic RB Auto Graflex, the 
Tele of 1915 also introduced a 3x4 camera. It's focusing rails were 
solid, whereas those of the 4x5 were still perforated. both cameras 
dropped the fur edging of the view hood. Its simplified, versatile and 
advanced design foretold the Series D of '28; in fact the same body was 
used."

So the Tele has perf'ed rails, a chimney that comes to the edge of the 
camera, hinge on the back, a flip up door without wings, and a body 
that needs a long lens for the format  (9 1/4" isn't a normal lens!)


Paine doesn't show the Telescopic RB Auto Graflex, but does mention it 
again in the citation for the "Revolving Back Auto Graflex of 1906-1908

" this early issue of the Revolving Back Auto Graflex, which adhered 
closely to the design of the original Graflex, appears to have evolved 
into the 4x5 Tele RB Auto Graflex of 1912."

Yours isn't the RB Auto graflex since yours has a patent date of 1913 
and this ended production in '08,

but yours could be the non-illustrated RB Tele Auto which ran from 1912 
to ???
It's more probable that your camera is an early Tele RB Graflex.  
Somewhere in the archives of the Graflex helpboard I remember a 
discussion of these Tele RBs getting a speed table plate from an Auto 
on occasion.

The 1913 Patent date is not as helpful as some think. It certainly 
limits how old it can be, but not how young.... Patent dates, at this 
time were good for 17  years,  so that puts the camera in the 1913 to 
1930 era.  After that they are SUPPOSE to remove the patent date. But 
that's expensive as new dies had to be made or old ones modified. Many 
times the Manufacturer simply pressed on.

The low serial number puts in in very close to WWI.  I would bet your 
protar it was "Made by the Folmer & Schwing Division of Eastman Kodak"  
While in 1918, it changed to  ....Schwing DEPARTMENT of Eastman Kodak.  
  Even then they used old Division plates until stock was exhausted.

Les