From RNS1260 at comcast.net Sat May 2 17:25:23 2009 From: RNS1260 at comcast.net (RNS1260 at comcast.net) Date: Sat, 2 May 2009 21:25:23 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [Jacob-list] llamas and parasites Message-ID: <615302166.3934881241299523475.JavaMail.root@sz0160a.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net> Hi Darla, Not all llamas guard. We have 20 plus Jacob sheep, three alpacas and four llamas. They have all been introduced through a fence for several weeks before?we turn them out together. All of our animals intermingle and share the same fields. The llamas and alpacas have there own stalls at night, but that's just our set up. Our one male is the natural guard of the entire flock. It is very important that llamas receive an injection of Ivermectin 1cc per 50 lbs.every 6 or 7 weeks. They can get meningeal worm that is carried by the deer and makes it's way to our fields via snails. We alternate with Dectomax 1cc per 75 lbs. a couple of times through out the coarse of treatment to aid against resistance. Because you are dealing with different parasites you need to triple dose them with Equine Safeguard paste for three days in a row, Spring and Fall. After the first freeze,?we give them a break for a few months. As soon as the winter weather starts to break, we start our regime again. I hope this is some help to you. Cheryl www.risenshinefarm.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From hobbyknobfarm at main.nc.us Mon May 4 21:53:01 2009 From: hobbyknobfarm at main.nc.us (hobbyknobfarm) Date: Mon, 4 May 2009 21:53:01 -0400 Subject: [Jacob-list] llamas/sheep/parasites Message-ID: I too have sheep and llamas. I would like to add that if you can, start learning to do your own fecals or have someone do them for you periodically. This is helpful so that we stop overusing wormers and to see if your wormer is working. Meningeal worm will not show up in a fecal as it is a parasite of the CNS but you can at least see what you may or may not have. In our area, safegaurd is not working. There is some good parasite research for llamas going on at U of GA. I fortunately do not have a problem with deer at my place but know that constant use of Ivermectin to treat Meningeal worm has resulted in resistance/ineffectiveness for the intestinal parasites on many farms. Yes some llamas can be good guards but no llama can survive or protect from a pack of dogs/coyotes.All of my llamas are good for warning that something is around that does not belong regardless of which pasture they are in. Still might be a good idea to have the shotgun ready. Somehow I did not get the first question from chat so I hope this makes sense. elizabeth www.hobbyknobfarm.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From gbanderson at ucdavis.edu Tue May 5 06:34:22 2009 From: gbanderson at ucdavis.edu (Gary Anderson) Date: Tue, 5 May 2009 03:34:22 -0700 Subject: [Jacob-list] Lambs on the frozen tundra Message-ID: Our 2009 lambs have hit the ground! Photos of some of our lambs may be viewed on our website (www.hillsidejacobs.com ); use the link to our 'For Sale' page. In a few weeks, after the lambs have developed sufficiently to evaluate as breeding stock, we will post individual photos of lambs available for sale. We expect to have a large selection of both ewe and ram lambs. We plan to attend next month's Jacob Sheep Breeders Association meeting in Mason, Michigan on June 26-28 and will have lambs available for viewing and sale. Lambs purchased prior to the meeting can be delivered there, or lambs may be picked up before or after the meeting during a visit to our place ~75 expressway miles away. Thanks for checking out our website. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From runzicker at verizon.net Sat May 9 14:58:38 2009 From: runzicker at verizon.net (R. Unzicker) Date: Sat, 09 May 2009 14:58:38 -0400 Subject: [Jacob-list] website Message-ID: <50BD5E8F76214E6581227D8493D4C45C@homepc> Thanks to our resident "webbie" our web site has been updated. See ewe lamb and ram lamb pages. I will be going to AGM and will have room to transport sheep either way. Thanks, Royal -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From patchworkfibers at windstream.net Sat May 9 17:33:55 2009 From: patchworkfibers at windstream.net (Linda) Date: Sat, 09 May 2009 17:33:55 -0400 Subject: [Jacob-list] four horn ewe skulls Message-ID: <4A05F6C3.4090305@windstream.net> Does anyone have any four horn _ewe_ skulls? I don't want them! but I have a question if you do. TIA Linda -- http://www.patchworkfibers.com Registered Jacob Sheep -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From patchworkfibers at windstream.net Sun May 10 06:57:15 2009 From: patchworkfibers at windstream.net (Linda) Date: Sun, 10 May 2009 06:57:15 -0400 Subject: [Jacob-list] 4 horn ewe skulls Message-ID: <4A06B30B.1060705@windstream.net> kay, for those of you that have asked "why". I had a lovely four horned ewe die last year from an injury that resulted in a hernia. We had to put her down. Her horn spacing was very nice - plenty of spacing with obvious flesh between the horns. We buried her in our slab pile - a pile of slabs left over when we milled the lumber for our house. With the recent rains, the top of the horns were exposed and my dog pulled out the skull. I will photograph it tomorrow if I get a chance. At the skull, there is a single horn. About an inch or so up, the horn splits into two horns. This ewe produced two lambs for me - both fused, so I'm curious. I have many four horned ram skulls and the horns are quite obviously separate coming from the skull. I do send four horned ewes to the butcher sometimes, but have never saved skulls, so don't have anything to compare this to. I'll get some pictures today up on my site for a better explanation. Linda -- http://www.patchworkfibers.com Registered Jacob Sheep From gbanderson at ucdavis.edu Sun May 10 13:28:26 2009 From: gbanderson at ucdavis.edu (Gary Anderson) Date: Sun, 10 May 2009 10:28:26 -0700 Subject: [Jacob-list] New ram? Message-ID: <754E7B805BD045349B0E88251AFB74D6@GBAndersonLT1> We are interested in finding for our fall breeding season a new, unrelated, four-horned ram that will register in JSBA's E or F (possibly D) generation. Besides meeting the JSBA breed standard, we want a ram with good wool quality in his ancestry. We are willing to trade even-up for your choice of our two- or four-horned E-, F- and G-generation ram lambs. Our lambs were born in early April and will be just shy of 3 months of age at the time of JSBA's annual meeting to be held at the Ingham County Fairground, Mason, MI on June 26-28; nevertheless, we are confident that we can work together to select safely a ram lamb that, barring catastrophe, will pass JSBA inspection for registration at 6 months of age. The JSBA annual meeting will be a good opportunity to effect the swap, or we can do it another time. Our ram lambs are developing their horns now, and we expect to have individual photos available in the next 2 weeks. You may check our website (www.hillsidejacobs.com ) for early photos of some of our lambs. Please contact Gary offline (gbanderson at ucdavis.edu) if interested in pursuing discussion of a ram swap. Thanks. Gary and Dianne Anderson Hillside Jacobs Sparta, MI -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From patchworkfibers at windstream.net Sun May 10 14:22:04 2009 From: patchworkfibers at windstream.net (Linda) Date: Sun, 10 May 2009 14:22:04 -0400 Subject: [Jacob-list] 4 horn ewe skulls Message-ID: <4A071B4C.10902@windstream.net> Here's some pictures illustrating my question on ewe skulls. http://patchworkfibers.com/skulls.html -- http://www.patchworkfibers.com Registered Jacob Sheep From gbanderson at ucdavis.edu Sun May 10 19:20:45 2009 From: gbanderson at ucdavis.edu (Gary Anderson) Date: Sun, 10 May 2009 16:20:45 -0700 Subject: [Jacob-list] JSBA Annual Meeting Message-ID: <6AF0C058B302459583C0AC5703B3D616@GBAndersonLT1> Members of the Jacob Sheep Breeders Association (JSBA) and other Jacob sheep breeders and conservators are invited to attend JSBA's annual meeting to be held at the Ingham County Fairgrounds, Mason, Michigan June 26-28. The meeting will begin at 6:00 pm Friday evening, June 26, with dinner and a get-acquainted mixer. The formal program will begin with breakfast at 7:30 am on Saturday, June 27, and throughout the day will include research presentations on Jacob sheep, sessions on how to evaluate Jacob sheep from such diverse perspectives as addition to your flock to Jacob sheep in the show ring, and a Jacob show designed both to be fun and educational and to allow breeders to compete for fabulous (?) prizes. Saturday's activities will be capped with a dinner celebrating JSBA's 20th anniversary. After-dinner speakers will discuss JSBA's early days and how Jacob sheep in the U.S. have gotten to where they are today. Other activities will include a raffle, breeder displays of flocks and products, and lots of opportunity to buy, sell, or exchange sheep and simply "to talk Jacobs". Breakfast will be available Sunday morning, June 28, and information provided on local sites of interest for attendees planning to spend the day in the area. Registration information will be included with the May JSBA Newsletter. Everyone is encouraged to check the JSBA website (www.jsba.org ) for information on options for transportation to the meeting. Registration materials as well as information on the program and the raffle will be posted on the JSBA website in the near future. All Jacob sheep enthusiasts, JSBA members and nonmembers alike, are encouraged to mark their calendars and plan to attend this year's JSBA annual meeting. Plan to bring your sheep to display, to sell, and to show (or not). Also consider hosting a table of your Jacob products for display and/or sale. The local organizers look forward to a large turnout and attendance at this year's meeting. See you there! -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ranchrat at telusplanet.net Tue May 12 13:54:57 2009 From: ranchrat at telusplanet.net (ranchrat) Date: Tue, 12 May 2009 11:54:57 -0600 Subject: [Jacob-list] 4 horn ewe skulls Message-ID: <000001c9d32a$c4dffab0$3914b8a1@RIVENDELL> Heel low Linda & Sheepers: As far as I understand this, Jacobs are polycerate because they have a gene the splits the horn core.just as a cow has horns, for example, the only difference between having single horned cows and multi-horned cows is this horn splitting gene. People have enough trouble having meat with horns and you'll find a lot want polled cattle, no horns.meat with horns is harder to deal with. LOL, that is until they realize their pretty handy handles some times.or not! I will go out on a limb and surmise that because rams have testosterone and this amplifies the horn growth (and degrades fiber quicker than in ewes.sigh!), you will note a more major split in the horns.but basically, you have the same issue, a single horn that becomes multi-horns. I see no difference in the horns of your four horn ewe and your four horn ram.both look the same to me, but in the ram, more amplified because intact rams have bigger horns than the ewes. If he had been altered, you would note horn growth really slows down, maybe to the same rate as a ewe.that sounds like a FUN project to investigate.alter a full sibling ram to a ewe and see if their horn growth is any different.har har.keep feed and all other factors the same.have fun with that one. Fused horns.it is hard to determine TRUE number of horns as in some causes, I would probably lean towards a seam delegating the "potential" to have caused more horns. I tend to count the fused horns separately, so have "five horned" ewes that would in some person's opinions, be four horns and in the case of one ewe, we have three separated horns on one side (no questioning that side) and her other side, the top horn is fused with another completely separate side horn, so some would say a "five horn," but we refer to her as a SIX horn ewe. Fused horns are frowned upon by some.hee hee.so maybe it is safer to count a fused as one, but then you can fight with the fact that it could make a Jacob have unbalanced horns.that too is a negative for some. Hee hee.too many interpretations.makes nobody completely happy. Sure is fun messing up your brain over tho. Thanks Linda, sure helps pass the time cleaning out barns and gearing up for shearing.oh the tedious tasks of spring and other whatnots. Doggone, Tara Lee Higgins ~ Rat Ranch - Alberta Home of Melody; Canada's 1st Grand Champion Jacob Ewe - Lilac FOUR horn.or FIVE horn?? Hee hee -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From patchworkfibers at windstream.net Tue May 12 20:15:11 2009 From: patchworkfibers at windstream.net (Linda) Date: Tue, 12 May 2009 20:15:11 -0400 Subject: [Jacob-list] 4 horn ewe skulls In-Reply-To: <000001c9d32a$c4dffab0$3914b8a1@RIVENDELL> References: <000001c9d32a$c4dffab0$3914b8a1@RIVENDELL> Message-ID: <4A0A110F.5050706@windstream.net> Are there single horned cows? I want one :-) I've received a wide assortment of private responses to my question. We certainly are as individual as our sheep! I have no experience with wethers, so can't add much to that topic. The few meat buyers I have want intact rams and added to the fact that I am lousy at banding means that our cull rams go into the freezer as rams. A friend of mine did have a wether (castrated by the vet, so I'm sure he was a real wether). Pokey had HUGE forward horns as a two year old - every bit as large as two year old ram. I think he was unusual. I have two five horned ewes and one six horned ewe. I do consider a sheep with fused horns to have the number of horns that are fused - not the number of horns that are separate. I would consider your ewe with three separate on one side and two fused and one separate on the other to be a six horned. Unbalanced and undifferentiated is only a dq for rams. You haven't posted in forever and it's fun to hear from you again - it's an interesting topic and thanks for "messing up" my brain :-) Congratulations on Canada's first GC Jacob ewe! What does it mean to be Canada's first GC ewe? Linda ranchrat wrote: > > Heel low Linda & Sheepers: > > As far as I understand this, Jacobs are polycerate because they have a > gene the splits the horn core...just as a cow has horns, for example, > the only difference between having single horned cows and > multi-horned cows is this horn splitting gene. People have enough > trouble having meat with horns and you'll find a lot want polled > cattle, no horns...meat with horns is harder to deal with. LOL, that > is until they realize their pretty handy handles some times...or not! > > I will go out on a limb and surmise that because rams have > testosterone and this amplifies the horn growth (and degrades fiber > quicker than in ewes...sigh!), you will note a more major split in the > horns...but basically, you have the same issue, a single horn that > becomes multi-horns. > > I see no difference in the horns of your four horn ewe and your four > horn ram...both look the same to me, but in the ram, more amplified > because intact rams have bigger horns than the ewes. If he had been > altered, you would note horn growth really slows down, maybe to the > same rate as a ewe...that sounds like a FUN project to > investigate...alter a full sibling ram to a ewe and see if their horn > growth is any different...har har...keep feed and all other factors > the same...have fun with that one. > > Fused horns...it is hard to determine TRUE number of horns as in some > causes, I would probably lean towards a seam delegating the > "potential" to have caused more horns. I tend to count the fused > horns separately, so have "five horned" ewes that would in some > person's opinions, be four horns and in the case of one ewe, we have > three separated horns on one side (no questioning that side) and her > other side, the top horn is fused with another completely separate > side horn, so some would say a "five horn," but we refer to her as a > SIX horn ewe. Fused horns are frowned upon by some...hee hee...so > maybe it is safer to count a fused as one, but then you can fight with > the fact that it could make a Jacob have unbalanced horns...that too > is a negative for some. > > Hee hee...too many interpretations...makes nobody completely happy. > Sure is fun messing up your brain over tho. Thanks Linda, sure helps > pass the time cleaning out barns and gearing up for shearing...oh the > tedious tasks of spring and other whatnots. > > Doggone, > > Tara Lee Higgins ~ Rat Ranch -- Alberta > > Home of Melody; Canada's 1^st Grand Champion Jacob Ewe -- Lilac FOUR > horn...or FIVE horn?? Hee hee > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > Jacob-list mailing list, sponsored by Swallow Lane Farm & Fiberworks > Jacob-list at jacobsheep.com > http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/jacob-list > -- http://www.patchworkfibers.com Registered Jacob Sheep -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From patchworkfibers at windstream.net Tue May 12 22:14:47 2009 From: patchworkfibers at windstream.net (Linda) Date: Tue, 12 May 2009 22:14:47 -0400 Subject: [Jacob-list] 4 horn ewe skulls In-Reply-To: <4A0A110F.5050706@windstream.net> References: <000001c9d32a$c4dffab0$3914b8a1@RIVENDELL> <4A0A110F.5050706@windstream.net> Message-ID: <4A0A2D17.2060401@windstream.net> Edited to add (need to proof read more) I do consider a sheep with fused horns to have the number of _*total horns including the ones that are fused*_ - not the number of horns that are separate. Linda wrote: > Are there single horned cows? I want one :-) > I've received a wide assortment of private responses to my question. > We certainly are as individual as our sheep! > I have no experience with wethers, so can't add much to that topic. > The few meat buyers I have want intact rams and added to the fact that > I am lousy at banding means that our cull rams go into the freezer as > rams. A friend of mine did have a wether (castrated by the vet, so I'm > sure he was a real wether). Pokey had HUGE forward horns as a two year > old - every bit as large as two year old ram. I think he was unusual. > I have two five horned ewes and one six horned ewe. I do consider a > sheep with fused horns to have the number of horns that are fused - > not the number of horns that are separate. I would consider your ewe > with three separate on one side and two fused and one separate on the > other to be a six horned. Unbalanced and undifferentiated is only a dq > for rams. > You haven't posted in forever and it's fun to hear from you again - > it's an interesting topic and thanks for "messing up" my brain :-) > Congratulations on Canada's first GC Jacob ewe! What does it mean to > be Canada's first GC ewe? > > Linda > > ranchrat wrote: >> >> Heel low Linda & Sheepers: >> >> As far as I understand this, Jacobs are polycerate because they have >> a gene the splits the horn core...just as a cow has horns, for >> example, the only difference between having single horned cows and >> multi-horned cows is this horn splitting gene. People have enough >> trouble having meat with horns and you'll find a lot want polled >> cattle, no horns...meat with horns is harder to deal with. LOL, that >> is until they realize their pretty handy handles some times...or not! >> >> I will go out on a limb and surmise that because rams have >> testosterone and this amplifies the horn growth (and degrades fiber >> quicker than in ewes...sigh!), you will note a more major split in >> the horns...but basically, you have the same issue, a single horn >> that becomes multi-horns. >> >> I see no difference in the horns of your four horn ewe and your four >> horn ram...both look the same to me, but in the ram, more amplified >> because intact rams have bigger horns than the ewes. If he had been >> altered, you would note horn growth really slows down, maybe to the >> same rate as a ewe...that sounds like a FUN project to >> investigate...alter a full sibling ram to a ewe and see if their horn >> growth is any different...har har...keep feed and all other factors >> the same...have fun with that one. >> >> Fused horns...it is hard to determine TRUE number of horns as in some >> causes, I would probably lean towards a seam delegating the >> "potential" to have caused more horns. I tend to count the fused >> horns separately, so have "five horned" ewes that would in some >> person's opinions, be four horns and in the case of one ewe, we have >> three separated horns on one side (no questioning that side) and her >> other side, the top horn is fused with another completely separate >> side horn, so some would say a "five horn," but we refer to her as a >> SIX horn ewe. Fused horns are frowned upon by some...hee hee...so >> maybe it is safer to count a fused as one, but then you can fight >> with the fact that it could make a Jacob have unbalanced horns...that >> too is a negative for some. >> >> Hee hee...too many interpretations...makes nobody completely happy. >> Sure is fun messing up your brain over tho. Thanks Linda, sure helps >> pass the time cleaning out barns and gearing up for shearing...oh the >> tedious tasks of spring and other whatnots. >> >> Doggone, >> >> Tara Lee Higgins ~ Rat Ranch -- Alberta >> >> Home of Melody; Canada's 1^st Grand Champion Jacob Ewe -- Lilac FOUR >> horn...or FIVE horn?? Hee hee >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Jacob-list mailing list, sponsored by Swallow Lane Farm & Fiberworks >> Jacob-list at jacobsheep.com >> http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/jacob-list >> > > -- > http://www.patchworkfibers.com > Registered Jacob Sheep -- http://www.patchworkfibers.com Registered Jacob Sheep -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From patchworkfibers at windstream.net Tue May 12 22:17:02 2009 From: patchworkfibers at windstream.net (Linda) Date: Tue, 12 May 2009 22:17:02 -0400 Subject: [Jacob-list] 4 horn ewe skulls In-Reply-To: <000001c9d32a$c4dffab0$3914b8a1@RIVENDELL> References: <000001c9d32a$c4dffab0$3914b8a1@RIVENDELL> Message-ID: <4A0A2D9E.7080301@windstream.net> Are there single horned cows? I want one :-) I've received a wide assortment of private responses to my question. We certainly are as individual as our sheep! I have no experience with wethers, so can't add much to that topic. The few meat buyers I have want intact rams and added to the fact that I am lousy at banding means that our cull rams go into the freezer as rams. A friend of mine did have a wether (castrated by the vet, so I'm sure he was a real wether). Pokey had HUGE forward horns as a two year old - every bit as large as two year old ram. I think he was unusual. I have two five horned ewes and one six horned ewe. I do consider a sheep with fused horns to have the number of horns that are fused - not the number of horns that are separate. I would consider your ewe with three separate on one side and two fused and one separate on the other to be a six horned. Unbalanced and undifferentiated is only a dq for rams. You haven't posted in forever and it's fun to hear from you again - it's an interesting topic and thanks for "messing up" my brain :-) Congratulations on Canada's first GC Jacob ewe! What does it mean to be Canada's first GC ewe? Linda ranchrat wrote: > > Heel low Linda & Sheepers: > > As far as I understand this, Jacobs are polycerate because they have a > gene the splits the horn core...just as a cow has horns, for example, > the only difference between having single horned cows and > multi-horned cows is this horn splitting gene. People have enough > trouble having meat with horns and you'll find a lot want polled > cattle, no horns...meat with horns is harder to deal with. LOL, that > is until they realize their pretty handy handles some times...or not! > > I will go out on a limb and surmise that because rams have > testosterone and this amplifies the horn growth (and degrades fiber > quicker than in ewes...sigh!), you will note a more major split in the > horns...but basically, you have the same issue, a single horn that > becomes multi-horns. > > I see no difference in the horns of your four horn ewe and your four > horn ram...both look the same to me, but in the ram, more amplified > because intact rams have bigger horns than the ewes. If he had been > altered, you would note horn growth really slows down, maybe to the > same rate as a ewe...that sounds like a FUN project to > investigate...alter a full sibling ram to a ewe and see if their horn > growth is any different...har har...keep feed and all other factors > the same...have fun with that one. > > Fused horns...it is hard to determine TRUE number of horns as in some > causes, I would probably lean towards a seam delegating the > "potential" to have caused more horns. I tend to count the fused > horns separately, so have "five horned" ewes that would in some > person's opinions, be four horns and in the case of one ewe, we have > three separated horns on one side (no questioning that side) and her > other side, the top horn is fused with another completely separate > side horn, so some would say a "five horn," but we refer to her as a > SIX horn ewe. Fused horns are frowned upon by some...hee hee...so > maybe it is safer to count a fused as one, but then you can fight with > the fact that it could make a Jacob have unbalanced horns...that too > is a negative for some. > > Hee hee...too many interpretations...makes nobody completely happy. > Sure is fun messing up your brain over tho. Thanks Linda, sure helps > pass the time cleaning out barns and gearing up for shearing...oh the > tedious tasks of spring and other whatnots. > > Doggone, > > Tara Lee Higgins ~ Rat Ranch -- Alberta > > Home of Melody; Canada's 1^st Grand Champion Jacob Ewe -- Lilac FOUR > horn...or FIVE horn?? Hee hee > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > Jacob-list mailing list, sponsored by Swallow Lane Farm & Fiberworks > Jacob-list at jacobsheep.com > http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/jacob-list > -- http://www.patchworkfibers.com Registered Jacob Sheep -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From nlgrose at yadtel.net Wed May 13 05:26:17 2009 From: nlgrose at yadtel.net (Neal and Louise Grose) Date: Wed, 13 May 2009 05:26:17 -0400 Subject: [Jacob-list] 4 horn ewe skulls References: <000001c9d32a$c4dffab0$3914b8a1@RIVENDELL> <4A0A110F.5050706@windstream.net> Message-ID: 4 horn ewe skulls"Are there single horned cows? I want one :-)" Now, ya just know I had to reply to that. I think the only way to get a single horned animal without surgery is to have one that is horribly deformed. Two polls are a result of symmetrical division of the whole animal. The polycerate gene works on the poll position itself. I have even seen an instance where a Jacob crossed with a polled sheep produced a polled offspring, and that sheep went on to produce a 4 horned offspring (she also had a split eyelid). I do not think that I have ever seen a 3 horn individual, they are two fused horns on one side and separate on the other. There is a separate gene mechanism for symmetry from one side to the other. Oddly, one of our best rams early rams for siring symmetrical horns was one that had fused horns on both sides and looked like a massive two horn. Neal Grose ----- Original Message ----- From: Linda To: ranchrat Cc: jacob-list at jacobsheep.com Sent: Tuesday, May 12, 2009 8:15 PM Subject: Re: [Jacob-list] 4 horn ewe skulls -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From westergladstone at btinternet.com Wed May 13 08:36:33 2009 From: westergladstone at btinternet.com (BlackSheep) Date: Wed, 13 May 2009 13:36:33 +0100 Subject: [Jacob-list] 4 horn ewe skulls References: <000001c9d32a$c4dffab0$3914b8a1@RIVENDELL><4A0A110F.5050706@windstream.net> Message-ID: <895C93DDF8324076AB46E5A6351A4D55@Newbox> Neal wrote: <> That is really interesting and worth a bit of experimenting. We have a 4 horned ram lamb with horns which will be like that as he grows but we had not considered using him. Perhaps we'll give him a try after all ! Wether horns - I think their size depends on the age at which the lamb is wethered. The only wether we kept to any age, Fred, had horns just like a ewe and he was ringed at a few days old. We kept him for about 5 or 6 years for his lovely fleece. Juliet in Scotland UK -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From griffin45 at live.com Wed May 13 10:41:43 2009 From: griffin45 at live.com (Chris and Tina Griffin) Date: Wed, 13 May 2009 10:41:43 -0400 Subject: [Jacob-list] Reducing Our Jacob Flock Message-ID: Hi All, My wife and I have decided to reduce the number of Jacobs we have on the farm and give more attention to our milk goats . We will be maintaining 3 ewes and a ram, so we have 9 unregistered Jacobs available (3 Rams and 6 ewes). We have not yet set a definite price, but we are thinking between $75 and $150 each depending on marking and conformation. We would rather they go somewhere they will be enjoyed and respected for what they are, than to sell them at a premium to someone who just thinks they are neat. Right now, this forum is the only place we will be advertising our Jacobs. Please e-mail us for details and pictures. We have two 4 horn Rams (one is this years), one 2 horn ram, two 4 horn ewes (one is this years), and the rest are two horn ewes. We have this years wool and can provide samples with each animal. We live off of Hwy. 29 north/east of Danville,Va. and can provide delivery with-in 200 miles at $0.35 a mile. Thanks and have a great day! Chris and Tina Griffin Griffin's Ark www.griffinsark.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From patchworkfibers at windstream.net Wed May 13 14:41:53 2009 From: patchworkfibers at windstream.net (Linda) Date: Wed, 13 May 2009 14:41:53 -0400 Subject: [Jacob-list] 4 horn ewe skulls In-Reply-To: References: <000001c9d32a$c4dffab0$3914b8a1@RIVENDELL> <4A0A110F.5050706@windstream.net> Message-ID: <4A0B1471.7030502@windstream.net> What about five horned? I don't remember ever seeing or hearing about a 3 horned either, but I have two 5 horned ewes at the moment. Without dissecting them, I can't be sure that they aren't six horned, but I believe not. Linda Neal and Louise Grose wrote: > "Are there single horned cows? I want one :-)" > > Now, ya just know I had to reply to that. > I think the only way to get a single horned animal without surgery is > to have one that is horribly deformed. Two polls are a result of > symmetrical division of the whole animal. The polycerate gene works on > the poll position itself. I have even seen an instance where a Jacob > crossed with a polled sheep produced a polled offspring, and that > sheep went on to produce a 4 horned offspring (she also had a split > eyelid). > > I do not think that I have ever seen a 3 horn individual, they are two > fused horns on one side and separate on the other. There is a separate > gene mechanism for symmetry from one side to the other. Oddly, one of > our best rams early rams for siring symmetrical horns was one that had > fused horns on both sides and looked like a massive two horn. > > Neal Grose > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > Jacob-list mailing list, sponsored by Swallow Lane Farm & Fiberworks > Jacob-list at jacobsheep.com > http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/jacob-list > -- http://www.patchworkfibers.com Registered Jacob Sheep -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From southwindfarms at frontiernet.net Wed May 13 15:19:59 2009 From: southwindfarms at frontiernet.net (southwindfarms at frontiernet.net) Date: Wed, 13 May 2009 19:19:59 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [Jacob-list] symetrical horns In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <232674240.903951242242399431.JavaMail.root@cl05-host04.roch.ny.frontiernet.net> Message: 1 Date: Wed, 13 May 2009 05:26:17 -0400 From: "Neal and Louise Grose" Subject: Re: [Jacob-list] 4 horn ewe skulls Cc: Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" 4 horn ewe skulls"Are there single horned cows? I want one :-)" Now, ya just know I had to reply to that. I think the only way to get a single horned animal without surgery is to have one that is horribly deformed. Two polls are a result of symmetrical division of the whole animal. The polycerate gene works on the poll position itself. I have even seen an instance where a Jacob crossed with a polled sheep produced a polled offspring, and that sheep went on to produce a 4 horned offspring (she also had a split eyelid). I do not think that I have ever seen a 3 horn individual, they are two fused horns on one side and separate on the other. There is a separate gene mechanism for symmetry from one side to the other. Oddly, one of our best rams early rams for siring symmetrical horns was one that had fused horns on both sides and looked like a massive two horn. Neal Grose ----- Original Message ----- From: Linda To: ranchrat Cc: jacob-list at jacobsheep.com Sent: Tuesday, May 12, 2009 8:15 PM Subject: Re: [Jacob-list] 4 horn ewe skulls -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: ------------------------------ Message: 2 Date: Wed, 13 May 2009 13:36:33 +0100 From: "BlackSheep" Subject: Re: [Jacob-list] 4 horn ewe skulls Cc: Message-ID: <895C93DDF8324076AB46E5A6351A4D55 at Newbox> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Neal wrote: <> That is really interesting and worth a bit of experimenting. We have a 4 horned ram lamb with horns which will be like that as he grows but we had not considered using him. Perhaps we'll give him a try after all ! Wether horns - I think their size depends on the age at which the lamb is wethered. The only wether we kept to any age, Fred, had horns just like a ewe and he was ringed at a few days old. We kept him for about 5 or 6 years for his lovely fleece. Juliet in Scotland UK _______________________________________________________________________ Neal wrote "Oddly, one of our best rams early rams for siring symmetrical horns was one that had fused horns on both sides and looked like a massive two horn. That is interesting, the ewe which is one of my most consistant producers of four horned lambs with great hornset has three fully fused horns on one side. The other side has two seperate horns. Her sire was 2 horned. Now I wonder if he wasn't a fully fused four horn. From patchworkfibers at windstream.net Wed May 13 17:51:57 2009 From: patchworkfibers at windstream.net (Linda) Date: Wed, 13 May 2009 17:51:57 -0400 Subject: [Jacob-list] symetrical horns In-Reply-To: <232674240.903951242242399431.JavaMail.root@cl05-host04.roch.ny.frontiernet.net> References: <232674240.903951242242399431.JavaMail.root@cl05-host04.roch.ny.frontiernet.net> Message-ID: <4A0B40FD.4020708@windstream.net> Is there any research to indicate that fused horned sheep produce fused horned lambs? My three fused horned ewes are young and only one has lambed - her first lamb is a ewe lamb with very nice spacing. I'm certainly planning on breeding/keeping the other two. I have a ewe lamb this year that has the same pattern as Precious - three fully fused on one side and two separate on the the other. Her sire and dam have four nicely spaced horns. If she'd produce for me like Precious has for you, I would be very happy :-) Linda southwindfarms at frontiernet.net wrote: > That is interesting, the ewe which is one of my most consistant producers of four horned lambs with great hornset has three fully fused horns on one side. The other side has two seperate horns. Her sire was 2 horned. Now I wonder if he wasn't a fully fused four horn. > _______________________________________________ > Jacob-list mailing list, sponsored by Swallow Lane Farm & Fiberworks > Jacob-list at jacobsheep.com > http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/jacob-list > > -- http://www.patchworkfibers.com Registered Jacob Sheep -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From patchworkfibers at windstream.net Wed May 13 18:58:52 2009 From: patchworkfibers at windstream.net (Linda) Date: Wed, 13 May 2009 18:58:52 -0400 Subject: [Jacob-list] 4 horn ewe skulls In-Reply-To: <000001c9d3ed$e007d790$a516b8a1@RIVENDELL> References: <000001c9d3ed$e007d790$a516b8a1@RIVENDELL> Message-ID: <4A0B50AC.1050705@windstream.net> ranchrat wrote: > > Heel low Linda and Listers: > > > > Linda [mailto:patchworkfibers at windstream.net] wrote: > > Are there single horned cows? I want one :-) > > Oh behave...ha ha ha...single SIDED horned cows...the elusive UNIcorn > avoids me like the plague...nothing much left "pure" at my age or > temperament...arghhh! > Behave? Surely you jest _________________________________________________ > > > > Linda [mailto:patchworkfibers at windstream.net] wrote: > > > I have two five horned ewes and one six horned ewe. > > > > Yeh, our fused ewe horns vary from fused at the base and very > distinctly separate from there, > > I pretty much consider fused at the base as a whole different animal - more like "closely spaced" than fused. _________________________________________ > > Linda [mailto:patchworkfibers at windstream.net] wrote: > > > I do consider a sheep with fused horns to have the number of horns > that are fused - not the number of horns that are separate. > > > > Maybe one could state something like, "five horn fused" to > clarify...or even "five horn; left side, one horn with two fused" but > it is sorta complicating a thing that should be short and sweet, > especially for printed pedigrees and such. Imagine the nightmare in > record keeping for data bases and trying to keep all this straight and > understandable. The jargon or terminology would have to be > standardized and if we cannot all agree already whether to > count a double sided horn as a fused ONE horn or TWO horns...pictures > are worth a thousand words in some cases....pending the quality and > vantage point of the photo. LOL > Have you looked at the JSBA registration application lately? I think it's fairly clear. You actually do put in how many horns on each side and whether or not they are fully fused and whether or not there is flesh between the horns. The problem comes when, like you say, we differ on whether or not a horn is a single or two horns fused. Which is why I like asking questions and hearing what everyone has to say *smile* On the pictures I posted of the ram skull at http://patchworkfibers.com/skulls.html , would you consider the lateral with the seam a fused horn - making the ram a five horned with three true horns on that side? Or is that little sliver of a horn a scur? _________________________________________________ > > > > Linda [mailto:patchworkfibers at windstream.net] wrote: > > > I would consider your ewe with three separate on one side and two > fused and one separate on the other to be a six horned. Unbalanced and > undifferentiated is only a dq for rams. > > > > Tut tut tut...from ewes begets ram lambs...one does have to watch the > excuses we use on our ewes as tho one does have a tendency to feel > that the ram in the flock has the most influence...it is far better > pending one's approach towards perfection to a Standard (whichever one > you choose to use) to have both sides of the pedigree near > perfect...certainly makes perfection or your targeted objectives (if > balanced horns in the ram are desireable!) easier to attain. No > worries as you would be surprised at how many people NEVER examine the > hens they use trying to breed up exhibition poultry...if the pea, rose > or single comb on the hen sucks, so likely shall the offspring, both > roos and henny pennies. Feminine qualities need to be equal or better > than the males if you want to see any speedy progress towards your > goals. Nice when a ram throws well to whatever ewe he breeds, but top > notch to top notch rings more true in getting the best offspring. > You are preaching to the choir on that one. My ewes are my flock and I consider them more important than rams, particularly when making horn decisions. BUT - you're going to have to prove to me that fused horned ewes produce fused horned lambs. I do not keep ewes with weak laterals and I do not use rams from mothers with weak laterals as I do feel that gets passed on. But, like that great ewe that Laura mentioned, I've seen too many excellent hornsets from fused horned parents. Don't tell anyone, but I'd rather have a fully fused four horned than a two horned *smile* _____________________________________ > > > > > > > The only real hesitation I have on horns is not the number expressed, > but the conformation of the horns...in a ewe, somewhat forward horns > can be tolerated but in an intact ram, the horn growth, if not > properly aligned, situated, etc., can lead to having to trim horns as > the sheep may no be able to graze, see or enjoy life for that matter. > Horn formation, carriage, however we explain it, in my experience is > inheritable and we do have to make breeding selections carefully if we > want to produce those magnificently crowned Jacobs, boys or girls. I > also tend to prefer Jacob ewes with substantial horns for a girl, > weak, misaligned horns do nothing for me and I would not breed for a > ewe that if her horns were amplified by testosterone (males) would > possibly cause her life issues or detract from beautyThere is a lot > more to selecting breeding Jacobs than just horns...many many more > qualities to consider and I'd never discredit any Jacob that was a two > horn...not often you see split eye expressed in the 2-horns...that is > one bonus!! LOL.. > ___________________________________ We're on the same page here! > > > Linda [mailto:patchworkfibers at windstream.net] wrote: > > > What does it mean to be Canada's first GC ewe? > > > > Linda > > In order to take title of "Grand Champion" say over just showing your > sheep, a minimum of 20 Jacobs must be shown by three different > entrants. There have been Jacob sheep shown in Canada, but prior to > this, nobody has met these criteria. Course knowing me, this was my > first time showing sheep and after having the animals I showed all > take the three top spots, I thought, "That was easy...on to the next > task at hand." Granted, one could always try to pursue "Supreme" > Grand Champion, but hey, with my phobia about showing sheep in regards > to biosecurity plus the fact that most often you see the big meat > sheep breeds take that honour, I'll gladly leave that to someone else > to accomplish...yeh, yeh, no guts, no glory. Hee hee...Ornamental > Park Sheep don't stand a chance against economically production > motivated sheep breeds in wool, dairy or meat classifications. > Thanks for the explanation and congrats again. > > > > -- http://www.patchworkfibers.com Registered Jacob Sheep -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From nlgrose at yadtel.net Wed May 13 20:21:56 2009 From: nlgrose at yadtel.net (Neal and Louise Grose) Date: Wed, 13 May 2009 20:21:56 -0400 Subject: [Jacob-list] 4 horn ewe skulls References: <000001c9d32a$c4dffab0$3914b8a1@RIVENDELL> <4A0A110F.5050706@windstream.net> <4A0B1471.7030502@windstream.net> Message-ID: <2CC6E603F9D94E8B80876EB9EE384D91@HAL2> 4 horn ewe skullsI've seen enough heads and skulls to say that there are probably no true 3 horn animals; but, I have seen 5 well separated horns (3 = 2) with no evidence of fusing on the 2 side. My guess is that there is a "stop" button for the polycerate but the "stop" button varies. ----- Original Message ----- From: Linda To: Neal and Louise Grose Cc: jacob-list at jacobsheep.com Sent: Wednesday, May 13, 2009 2:41 PM Subject: Re: [Jacob-list] 4 horn ewe skulls What about five horned? I don't remember ever seeing or hearing about a 3 horned either, but I have two 5 horned ewes at the moment. Without dissecting them, I can't be sure that they aren't six horned, but I believe not. Linda Neal and Louise Grose wrote: "Are there single horned cows? I want one :-)" Now, ya just know I had to reply to that. I think the only way to get a single horned animal without surgery is to have one that is horribly deformed. Two polls are a result of symmetrical division of the whole animal. The polycerate gene works on the poll position itself. I have even seen an instance where a Jacob crossed with a polled sheep produced a polled offspring, and that sheep went on to produce a 4 horned offspring (she also had a split eyelid). I do not think that I have ever seen a 3 horn individual, they are two fused horns on one side and separate on the other. There is a separate gene mechanism for symmetry from one side to the other. Oddly, one of our best rams early rams for siring symmetrical horns was one that had fused horns on both sides and looked like a massive two horn. Neal Grose ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- _______________________________________________ Jacob-list mailing list, sponsored by Swallow Lane Farm & Fiberworks Jacob-list at jacobsheep.com http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/jacob-list -- http://www.patchworkfibers.com Registered Jacob Sheep -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From nlgrose at yadtel.net Thu May 14 04:59:56 2009 From: nlgrose at yadtel.net (Neal and Louise Grose) Date: Thu, 14 May 2009 04:59:56 -0400 Subject: [Jacob-list] 4 horn ewe skulls References: <000001c9d32a$c4dffab0$3914b8a1@RIVENDELL> <4A0A110F.5050706@windstream.net><4A0B1471.7030502@windstream.net> <2CC6E603F9D94E8B80876EB9EE384D91@HAL2> Message-ID: <1F691C095F074A4D83D2D7ADC5F1F3E2@HAL2> 4 horn ewe skullsOops, See edit ----- Original Message ----- From: Neal and Louise Grose Cc: jacob-list at jacobsheep.com Sent: Wednesday, May 13, 2009 8:21 PM Subject: Re: [Jacob-list] 4 horn ewe skulls I've seen enough heads and skulls to say that there are probably no true 3 horn animals; but, I have seen 5 well separated horns (3 = 2) with no evidence of fusing on the 2 side. My guess is that there is a "start" button for the polycerate but the "stop" button varies. ----- Original Message ----- -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From genejr100 at hotmail.com Thu May 14 13:20:29 2009 From: genejr100 at hotmail.com (Eugene Phillips) Date: Thu, 14 May 2009 13:20:29 -0400 Subject: [Jacob-list] Your message to Jacob-list awaits moderator approval In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I attempted to post a listing for Jacob Sheep For Sale in Kentucky and my listing was bounced due to a "suspicious subject header" and was awaiting a moderator's approval. On May 1st I wrote to the moderator to see if the listing had been reviewed and have not yet received a reply. Does anyone have any suggestions? Gene From: genejr100 at hotmail.com To: jacob-list-bounces at jacobsheep.com Subject: RE: Your message to Jacob-list awaits moderator approval Date: Fri, 1 May 2009 08:05:10 -0400 I posted a message on 4/28/09 and am still awaiting approval from the moderator. Trying to sell my small flock of Jacob Sheep and my message is no different from all the other members posting pictures of their lambs for sale. It may have an improper format since this is my first posting. Please let me know. My flock number is 0809. Thanks, Gene Phillips > Subject: Your message to Jacob-list awaits moderator approval > From: jacob-list-bounces at jacobsheep.com > To: genejr100 at hotmail.com > Date: Tue, 28 Apr 2009 16:19:19 -0400 > > Your mail to 'Jacob-list' with the subject > > Selling my small flock > > Is being held until the list moderator can review it for approval. > > The reason it is being held: > > Message has a suspicious header > > Either the message will get posted to the list, or you will receive > notification of the moderator's decision. If you would like to cancel > this posting, please visit the following URL: > > http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/confirm/jacob-list/b7725d452a4456e7986365847b04ec0532cbf440 > Rediscover Hotmail?: Get quick friend updates right in your inbox. Check it out. _________________________________________________________________ Hotmail? goes with you. http://windowslive.com/Tutorial/Hotmail/Mobile?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_HM_Tutorial_Mobile1_052009 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From hannah at knoxfarms.com Thu May 14 14:14:19 2009 From: hannah at knoxfarms.com (Hannah) Date: Thu, 14 May 2009 14:14:19 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [Jacob-list] Your message to Jacob-list awaits moderator approval In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <55523.64.40.83.53.1242324859.squirrel@kit.rc4systems.net> I too have sent things to the list and gotten that reply... > > I attempted to post a listing for Jacob Sheep For Sale in Kentucky and my > listing was bounced due to a "suspicious subject header" and was awaiting > a moderator's approval. On May 1st I wrote to the moderator to see if the > listing had been reviewed and have not yet received a reply. Does anyone > have any suggestions? > > > > Gene > > > > From: genejr100 at hotmail.com > To: jacob-list-bounces at jacobsheep.com > Subject: RE: Your message to Jacob-list awaits moderator approval > Date: Fri, 1 May 2009 08:05:10 -0400 > > > > I posted a message on 4/28/09 and am still awaiting approval from the > moderator. Trying to sell my small flock of Jacob Sheep and my message is > no different from all the other members posting pictures of their lambs > for sale. It may have an improper format since this is my first posting. > Please let me know. My flock number is 0809. > > Thanks, > Gene Phillips > >> Subject: Your message to Jacob-list awaits moderator approval >> From: jacob-list-bounces at jacobsheep.com >> To: genejr100 at hotmail.com >> Date: Tue, 28 Apr 2009 16:19:19 -0400 >> >> Your mail to 'Jacob-list' with the subject >> >> Selling my small flock >> >> Is being held until the list moderator can review it for approval. >> >> The reason it is being held: >> >> Message has a suspicious header >> >> Either the message will get posted to the list, or you will receive >> notification of the moderator's decision. If you would like to cancel >> this posting, please visit the following URL: >> >> http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/confirm/jacob-list/b7725d452a4456e7986365847b04ec0532cbf440 >> > > > > Rediscover Hotmail?: Get quick friend updates right in your inbox. Check > it out. > _________________________________________________________________ > Hotmail? goes with you. > http://windowslive.com/Tutorial/Hotmail/Mobile?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_HM_Tutorial_Mobile1_052009_______________________________________________ > Jacob-list mailing list, sponsored by Swallow Lane Farm & Fiberworks > Jacob-list at jacobsheep.com > http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/jacob-list > -- Knox Farms All Natural Goat's Milk Soaps Heritage Breed Livestock and Some That We Just Like Say NO! to National Animal ID System! http://nonais.org Member Friends of Traditional Farming http://fotfarm.org Blog blog.knoxfarms.com From carlfosbrink at yahoo.com Thu May 14 15:26:08 2009 From: carlfosbrink at yahoo.com (CARL FOSBRINK) Date: Thu, 14 May 2009 12:26:08 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Jacob-list] Your message to Jacob-list awaits moderator approval In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <359830.10613.qm@web55505.mail.re4.yahoo.com> Gene, ? ??? I have had the same thing happen and the e-mail never gets to the list. I would suggest re-writing the e-mail with a different header and see if it goes through. ? Carl ? Carl and Judy Fosbrink www.4hornfarm.com ________________________________ From: Eugene Phillips To: jacob-list at jacobsheep.com Sent: Thursday, May 14, 2009 1:20:29 PM Subject: Re: [Jacob-list] Your message to Jacob-list awaits moderator approval I?attempted to post a?listing for Jacob Sheep For Sale in Kentucky and my listing was bounced due to a "suspicious?subject header"?and was awaiting a moderator's approval.? On May 1st I wrote to the moderator to see if the listing had been reviewed and have not yet received a reply.? Does anyone have any suggestions? ? Gene ? ________________________________ From: genejr100 at hotmail.com To: jacob-list-bounces at jacobsheep.com Subject: RE: Your message to Jacob-list awaits moderator approval Date: Fri, 1 May 2009 08:05:10 -0400 I posted a message on 4/28/09 and am still awaiting approval from the moderator.? Trying to sell my small flock of Jacob Sheep and my message is no different from all the other members posting pictures of their lambs for sale.? It may have an improper format since this is my first posting.? Please let me know.? My flock number is 0809. ? Thanks, Gene Phillips ? > Subject: Your message to Jacob-list awaits moderator approval > From: jacob-list-bounces at jacobsheep.com > To: genejr100 at hotmail.com > Date: Tue, 28 Apr 2009 16:19:19 -0400 > > Your mail to 'Jacob-list' with the subject > > Selling my small flock > > Is being held until the list moderator can review it for approval. > > The reason it is being held: > > Message has a suspicious header > > Either the message will get posted to the list, or you will receive > notification of the moderator's decision. If you would like to cancel > this posting, please visit the following URL: > > http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/confirm/jacob-list/b7725d452a4456e7986365847b04ec0532cbf440 > ________________________________ Rediscover Hotmail?: Get quick friend updates right in your inbox. Check it out. ________________________________ Hotmail? goes with you. Get it on your BlackBerry or iPhone. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From williams at jacobsheep.com Thu May 14 19:54:30 2009 From: williams at jacobsheep.com (Williams Family) Date: Thu, 14 May 2009 16:54:30 -0700 Subject: [Jacob-list] Your message to Jacob-list awaits moderatorapproval References: Message-ID: <092501c9d4ef$53050540$6501a8c0@MomsCompaq> Sorry for the problems with the jacob-list. Unfortunately, the jacob-list receives hundreds of spam messages every day (I'm not exaggerating), all of which generate those messages to the moderator. I'm not able to sift through all the spam, so those bounces get automatically deleted. If you're having a problem, the best bet is to email me directly at williams at jacobsheep.com. And as was recommended, change the message subject. "For Sale" might be triggering the spam filters. - Mark Williams jacob-list administrator ----- Original Message ----- From: Eugene Phillips To: jacob-list at jacobsheep.com Sent: Thursday, May 14, 2009 10:20 AM Subject: Re: [Jacob-list] Your message to Jacob-list awaits moderatorapproval I attempted to post a listing for Jacob Sheep For Sale in Kentucky and my listing was bounced due to a "suspicious subject header" and was awaiting a moderator's approval. On May 1st I wrote to the moderator to see if the listing had been reviewed and have not yet received a reply. Does anyone have any suggestions? Gene ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ From: genejr100 at hotmail.com To: jacob-list-bounces at jacobsheep.com Subject: RE: Your message to Jacob-list awaits moderator approval Date: Fri, 1 May 2009 08:05:10 -0400 I posted a message on 4/28/09 and am still awaiting approval from the moderator. Trying to sell my small flock of Jacob Sheep and my message is no different from all the other members posting pictures of their lambs for sale. It may have an improper format since this is my first posting. Please let me know. My flock number is 0809. Thanks, Gene Phillips > Subject: Your message to Jacob-list awaits moderator approval > From: jacob-list-bounces at jacobsheep.com > To: genejr100 at hotmail.com > Date: Tue, 28 Apr 2009 16:19:19 -0400 > > Your mail to 'Jacob-list' with the subject > > Selling my small flock > > Is being held until the list moderator can review it for approval. > > The reason it is being held: > > Message has a suspicious header > > Either the message will get posted to the list, or you will receive > notification of the moderator's decision. If you would like to cancel > this posting, please visit the following URL: > > http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/confirm/jacob-list/b7725d452a4456e7986365847b04ec0532cbf440 > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Rediscover Hotmail?: Get quick friend updates right in your inbox. Check it out. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Hotmail? goes with you. Get it on your BlackBerry or iPhone. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ Jacob-list mailing list, sponsored by Swallow Lane Farm & Fiberworks Jacob-list at jacobsheep.com http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/jacob-list -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From marytonkin at comcast.net Fri May 15 21:48:42 2009 From: marytonkin at comcast.net (marytonkin at comcast.net) Date: Sat, 16 May 2009 01:48:42 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [Jacob-list] all our lambs are here. In-Reply-To: <999950910.8944081242437450209.JavaMail.root@sz0095a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> Message-ID: <1393761532.8947311242438522560.JavaMail.root@sz0095a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> Hello everyone, ?We finally finished lambing this year, we started in February and ended with twin ram lambs out of a lilac ewe on Mother's Day. We bought two bred ewes that extended our normal breeding season quite a bit (I usually like to finish by the end of March) . I am pleased with the lambs and their fleeces we have this year even if we were heavy on the boys and I am already looking forward to breeding groups this fall. I really enjoy viewing other web sites to see pictures of?other?lambs and also to watch them grow. Keep up the great work...?? Mary Shadow Mountain Jacobs Buckley Washington www . shadowmountainjacobs .com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Hobsickle at aol.com Sun May 17 09:14:25 2009 From: Hobsickle at aol.com (Hobsickle at aol.com) Date: Sun, 17 May 2009 09:14:25 EDT Subject: [Jacob-list] Taking sheep to the AGM? Message-ID: Hi All- If you're planning on hauling sheep to or from the AGM at the end of June, please let me know and we'll post your name and location on-line (_http://dandysdabblings.com/JSBA%20AGM/sheep%20hauling.htm_ (http://dandysdabblings.com/JSBA%20AGM/sheep%20hauling.htm) ) This will let those who want to buy sheep, or who may need help hauling sheep, can get in touch with you. The more we can coordinate sheep and trailers the better everyone's chances of selling sheep and/or buying new sheep from across the country. (I'm personally getting a new sheep from the West Coast!) -Dan **************A strong credit score is 700 or above. See Yours in Just 2 Easy Steps! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1222585011x1201462751/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072&hmpgID=115& bcd=Maystrongfooter51709NO115) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From stcroft at ptd.net Sun May 17 21:38:14 2009 From: stcroft at ptd.net (Susan J Martin) Date: Sun, 17 May 2009 21:38:14 -0400 Subject: [Jacob-list] Question Message-ID: <5A2CC78CE11D43A5969A5621934937C4@Ultra> This spring several of my ewes have been looking pretty scruffy with a lot of wool break and sloughing off of the fleece. I wormed them, although not all of them really needed it as per eyelid checks. They appear healthy in every other way.....no sign of lice or excessive scratching. We had fertilized the meadows with 20-10-10 about two wks. prior to putting them in the meadows.....and there was a lot of rain following the fertilizer application, resulting in lush pasture. Can the high nitrogen cause sloughing of the fleece? We also have had a lot of rain here in southeast PA.....could it be due to the rainy weather? The ewes were sheared in March and they lambed in April.....and the lambs are doing well and look fine. Thanks for any thoughts you may have. Sue Martin Stonecroft -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From genejr100 at hotmail.com Mon May 18 08:07:33 2009 From: genejr100 at hotmail.com (Eugene Phillips) Date: Mon, 18 May 2009 08:07:33 -0400 Subject: [Jacob-list] Jacob Sheep Message-ID: I live in McKee, Kentucky and need to sell my small flock of Jacob Sheep. Have two registered ewes born in early 2007 and their three lambs. One 4 horn ewe born 9/19/08, one 2 horn ram born 2/01/09 and one 4 horn ram born 2/19/09. Asking $100.00 each but will consider a reasonable offer for all of them. Can supply photos if you are interested. Both the adult ewes have 2 horns. Gene Phillips _________________________________________________________________ Insert movie times and more without leaving Hotmail?. http://windowslive.com/Tutorial/Hotmail/QuickAdd?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_HM_Tutorial_QuickAdd1_052009 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From lasell at lasell.org Tue May 19 09:38:40 2009 From: lasell at lasell.org (Lasell J. Bartlett) Date: Tue, 19 May 2009 09:38:40 -0400 Subject: [Jacob-list] registration! Message-ID: <8EE903E3-1418-4024-9881-DE56F09B9B2E@lasell.org> It took me quite a while to get it all together, but get it together I did, and our older ewes are now JSBA registered. Thanks especially to Betty and Royal for their guidance and consistent encouragement! Lasell J Bartlett *registered* Jacob Sheep at Fine Fettle Farm From rmitschler at gmail.com Tue May 19 10:51:51 2009 From: rmitschler at gmail.com (Ralene Mitschler) Date: Tue, 19 May 2009 10:51:51 -0400 Subject: [Jacob-list] Question In-Reply-To: <5A2CC78CE11D43A5969A5621934937C4@Ultra> References: <5A2CC78CE11D43A5969A5621934937C4@Ultra> Message-ID: <6a515c580905190751k1a37e067me75d82c1283e3e70@mail.gmail.com> Hi Sue and ListersIt may well be a 'lag' effect from our drought year here in PA. I had some problems too this year with that. Talked to my vet after losing a few ewes this winter. When supplemental grain feed increase seemed to fix the problem we decided that the hay/pastures and grains were lower in nutrition than usual. More grain than usual was needed to counterbalance. I suspect one of my hay purchases was worse than the other so have had to be careful to mix. Between the nasty wind chill, the challenge of lower quality feed etc my flock saw the first real losses of deaths and wool issue in my five years so far. (We did eliminate worms etc too; my fecal exams showed nothing) Thank goodness the pastures are recovering nicely; am working hard to spread compost better etc to avoid this problem in future (I hope) Most of the fleeces of the 'scruffy' girls here have improved greatly (we sheared in february) so it may be very little problem for next year's fleece harvest! not sure whether the fertilizer had an effect or not. Didn't have that factor here. Ralene On Sun, May 17, 2009 at 9:38 PM, Susan J Martin wrote: > This spring several of my ewes have been looking pretty scruffy with a > lot of wool break and sloughing off of the fleece. I wormed them, although > not all of them really needed it as per eyelid checks. They appear healthy > in every other way.....no sign of lice or excessive scratching. We had > fertilized the meadows with 20-10-10 about two wks. prior to putting them in > the meadows.....and there was a lot of rain following the fertilizer > application, resulting in lush pasture. Can the high nitrogen cause > sloughing of the fleece? We also have had a lot of rain here in southeast > PA.....could it be due to the rainy weather? The ewes were sheared in March > and they lambed in April.....and the lambs are doing well and look fine. > Thanks for any thoughts you may have. > Sue Martin > Stonecroft > > > _______________________________________________ > Jacob-list mailing list, sponsored by Swallow Lane Farm & Fiberworks > Jacob-list at jacobsheep.com > http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/jacob-list > > -- Ralene R. Mitschler, Ph.D. Associate Professor of Biology PreMed Advisor McDaniel College 2 College Hill Westminster MD 21157 410.857.2406 Ralene Mitschler Chicory Lane Farm Jacob sheep 687 Oxford Ave Hanover PA 17331 rmitschler at gmail.com 717.630.2988 717.817.3794 cell -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From nlgrose at yadtel.net Tue May 19 13:50:06 2009 From: nlgrose at yadtel.net (Neal and Louise Grose) Date: Tue, 19 May 2009 13:50:06 -0400 Subject: [Jacob-list] Question References: <5A2CC78CE11D43A5969A5621934937C4@Ultra> <6a515c580905190751k1a37e067me75d82c1283e3e70@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <923D9101477849E284C82AD75D01EEF4@HAL2> Nutritional effects can be complicated. I have seen wool breaks in fat sheep. You could be seeing a problem from a temporary spike in nitrites as a result of our unusually fickle spring weather. Grass (magnesium) tetany happens under these circumstances, inorganic fertilizer or not. Neal Grose ----- Original Message ----- From: Ralene Mitschler To: Susan J Martin Cc: Sheep E-mail List ; Sheep YAHOO Sent: Tuesday, May 19, 2009 10:51 AM Subject: Re: [Jacob-list] Question Hi Sue and Listers It may well be a 'lag' effect from our drought year here in PA. I had some problems too this year with that. Talked to my vet after losing a few ewes this winter. When supplemental grain feed increase seemed to fix the problem we decided that the hay/pastures and grains were lower in nutrition than usual. More grain than usual was needed to counterbalance. I suspect one of my hay purchases was worse than the other so have had to be careful to mix. Between the nasty wind chill, the challenge of lower quality feed etc my flock saw the first real losses of deaths and wool issue in my five years so far. (We did eliminate worms etc too; my fecal exams showed nothing) Thank goodness the pastures are recovering nicely; am working hard to spread compost better etc to avoid this problem in future (I hope) Most of the fleeces of the 'scruffy' girls here have improved greatly (we sheared in february) so it may be very little problem for next year's fleece harvest! not sure whether the fertilizer had an effect or not. Didn't have that factor here. Ralene On Sun, May 17, 2009 at 9:38 PM, Susan J Martin wrote: This spring several of my ewes have been looking pretty scruffy with a lot of wool break and sloughing off of the fleece. I wormed them, although not all of them really needed it as per eyelid checks. They appear healthy in every other way.....no sign of lice or excessive scratching. We had fertilized the meadows with 20-10-10 about two wks. prior to putting them in the meadows.....and there was a lot of rain following the fertilizer application, resulting in lush pasture. Can the high nitrogen cause sloughing of the fleece? We also have had a lot of rain here in southeast PA.....could it be due to the rainy weather? The ewes were sheared in March and they lambed in April.....and the lambs are doing well and look fine. Thanks for any thoughts you may have. Sue Martin Stonecroft _______________________________________________ Jacob-list mailing list, sponsored by Swallow Lane Farm & Fiberworks Jacob-list at jacobsheep.com http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/jacob-list -- Ralene R. Mitschler, Ph.D. Associate Professor of Biology PreMed Advisor McDaniel College 2 College Hill Westminster MD 21157 410.857.2406 Ralene Mitschler Chicory Lane Farm Jacob sheep 687 Oxford Ave Hanover PA 17331 rmitschler at gmail.com 717.630.2988 717.817.3794 cell ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ Jacob-list mailing list, sponsored by Swallow Lane Farm & Fiberworks Jacob-list at jacobsheep.com http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/jacob-list -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From patchworkfibers at windstream.net Fri May 22 21:00:16 2009 From: patchworkfibers at windstream.net (Linda) Date: Fri, 22 May 2009 21:00:16 -0400 Subject: [Jacob-list] free llama Message-ID: <4A174AA0.9050106@windstream.net> My daughter sent me this craigslist http://grandrapids.craigslist.org/grd/1184502339.html link from Michigan. I am not in Michigan and not in the market for llama, but it sure gave me a chuckle. Linda -- http://www.patchworkfibers.com Registered Jacob Sheep -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From lambfarm at sover.net Mon May 25 20:08:16 2009 From: lambfarm at sover.net (Betty Berlenbach) Date: Mon, 25 May 2009 20:08:16 -0400 Subject: [Jacob-list] lambs Message-ID: <001801c9dd96$359d1650$47ac72d8@USER5AFE0954BF> Hi, all, Thanks to Linda, I finally have some photos up of lambs for sale on my website, contingent upon horns being acceptable, of course...www.maplehilljacobs.com. They won't be ready to leave home until the end of June, however...and I won't be around for AGM, so I can't bring some out there. Have a look... Betty, in Vermont,who now has a blog, thanks to help from Walter and Linda. See Betty's blog at http://sheepwoman.wordpress.com. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From schmick54 at aol.com Mon May 25 23:24:47 2009 From: schmick54 at aol.com (schmick54 at aol.com) Date: Mon, 25 May 2009 23:24:47 -0400 Subject: [Jacob-list] Fwd: Where to purchase In-Reply-To: <5E9E267B-D60D-44EE-9B29-93073F559ED4@telus.net> References: <5E9E267B-D60D-44EE-9B29-93073F559ED4@telus.net> Message-ID: <8CBABC8A7ED102B-1250-30CF@FWM-M18.sysops.aol.com> Can someone please help this gentleman? purchase some Jacobs ? Anyone in Washington, Oregon ?? Mick -----Original Message----- From: Stan Teitge To: information at jsba.org Sent: Sat, 23 May 2009 4:07 pm Subject: Where to purchase Hello? ? I live on Salt Spring Island and am interested in finding out where I might buy Jacobs Sheep in B.C preferably on the lower mainland or interior. A few years ago I had the remnants of a flock which belonged to someone else. I found the Jacobs to be bomb proof as far as lambing and foot rot as well as being interesting characters.? ? Thank You? ? Stan Teitge? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ranchrat at telusplanet.net Tue May 26 16:05:14 2009 From: ranchrat at telusplanet.net (ranchrat) Date: Tue, 26 May 2009 14:05:14 -0600 Subject: [Jacob-list] Fwd: Where to purchase Message-ID: <003701c9de3d$49e0f260$cb10b8a1@RIVENDELL> Hey now Hosers..!! My geography ain't so good most days but isn't Salt Spring in British Columbia Canuckville. Is the border open to sheep?...goats? Last time I looked, think only cows (something about 30 months or sumpthun??) could cross over US/Canada border? Bovines NOT Ovines.. This last fall I had my vet do up a quote compiled on exporting nine (9) White Booted Bantam Chickens.cost was over $1,500 just for testing (which SHOULD cost $0.50 not fifty dollars each for Pullorum test..grrr) and just the border paperwork on MY side, not the inspection on the US side, not transportation (airfare, containers, etc.) or even the cost of the birds (we're giving them to the guy in Minnesota.egads!). I really, really think the costs would be prohibitive to importing Jacobs into Canada from the States, course who knows.could be Avian Flu issues regarding dah birdles, maybe sheeps is gonna be cheaper (cheep cheep, not so much!!). Funny thing is that I recall a story that the Jacobs that first came to NA were quarantined out in Eastern Canada before they hit the States (Jacob Ladder bunch of which some went to Can Rare Breeds, the Conservancy flock-I have a ewe, Melody that's great grandfather was Jacob Ladder Mr. Todd, dam is Conservancy 5E). Since BSE, we've been like an island unto ourselves. Hey, anyone on this list reside in the Great White North, a.k.a Canada, too? IS the border OPEN to sheep???????????????????? Doggone still chugging along., Tara Lee Higgins Rat Ranch - West Central Alberta Canada, eh.... Date: Mon, 25 May 2009 23:24:47 -0400 From: schmick54 at aol.com Subject: [Jacob-list] Fwd: Where to purchase To: jacob-list at jacobsheep.com, teige at telus.net Message-ID: <8CBABC8A7ED102B-1250-30CF at FWM-M18.sysops.aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Can someone please help this gentleman? purchase some Jacobs ? Anyone in Washington, Oregon ?? Mick -----Original Message----- From: Stan Teitge To: information at jsba.org Sent: Sat, 23 May 2009 4:07 pm Subject: Where to purchase Hello? ? I live on Salt Spring Island and am interested in finding out where I might buy Jacobs Sheep in B.C preferably on the lower mainland or interior. A few years ago I had the remnants of a flock which belonged to someone else. I found the Jacobs to be bomb proof as far as lambing and foot rot as well as being interesting characters.? ? Thank You? ? Stan Teitge? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From patchworkfibers at windstream.net Tue May 26 16:20:23 2009 From: patchworkfibers at windstream.net (Linda) Date: Tue, 26 May 2009 16:20:23 -0400 Subject: [Jacob-list] Fwd: Where to purchase In-Reply-To: <003701c9de3d$49e0f260$cb10b8a1@RIVENDELL> References: <003701c9de3d$49e0f260$cb10b8a1@RIVENDELL> Message-ID: <4A1C4F07.4040602@windstream.net> The Canada border is open to sheep from the US. I know of two breeders who just sent Jacobs to Canada. I believe it just recently opened, but it is open. Linda ranchrat wrote: > > Hey now Hosers....!! > > My geography ain't so good most days but isn't Salt Spring in British > Columbia Canuckville... > > Is the border open to sheep?...goats? Last time I looked, think only > cows (something about 30 months or sumpthun??) could cross over > US/Canada border? Bovines NOT Ovines.... > > This last fall I had my vet do up a quote compiled on exporting nine > (9) White Booted Bantam Chickens...cost was over $1,500 just for > testing (which SHOULD cost $0.50 not fifty dollars each for Pullorum > test....grrr) and just the border paperwork on MY side, not the > inspection on the US side, not transportation (airfare, containers, > etc.) or even the cost of the birds (we're giving them to the guy in > Minnesota...egads!)... I really, really think the costs would be > prohibitive to importing Jacobs into Canada from the States, course > who knows...could be Avian Flu issues regarding dah birdles, maybe > sheeps is gonna be cheaper (cheep cheep, not so much!!). > > Funny thing is that I recall a story that the Jacobs that first came > to NA were quarantined out in Eastern Canada before they hit the > States (Jacob Ladder bunch of which some went to Can Rare Breeds, the > Conservancy flock---I have a ewe, Melody that's great grandfather was > Jacob Ladder Mr. Todd, dam is Conservancy 5E). > > Since BSE, we've been like an island unto ourselves... > > Hey, anyone on this list reside in the Great White North, a.k.a > Canada, too? IS the border OPEN to sheep???????????????????? > > Doggone still chugging along..., > > Tara Lee Higgins > > Rat Ranch - West Central Alberta > > Canada, eh.......... > > http://www.patchworkfibers.com Registered Jacob Sheep -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mikesharikids at yahoo.com Tue May 26 17:26:44 2009 From: mikesharikids at yahoo.com (Shari Staines) Date: Tue, 26 May 2009 14:26:44 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Jacob-list] Jacob Ram Available To Wonderful Jacob Home Message-ID: <929567.5503.qm@web32008.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Hi, ? I would like to know if anyone would be interesting in "adopting" my breeding ram.? ? Painted Rock Kingsley 2 yr old Black/White Two Horn ? Photos and info at www.paintedrockfarm.com (Thanks Cheryl.) ? More details if you give me a call at 678-596-7776 ? Thanks, Shari Staines Alpharetta, GA -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Hobsickle at aol.com Tue May 26 19:15:21 2009 From: Hobsickle at aol.com (Hobsickle at aol.com) Date: Tue, 26 May 2009 19:15:21 EDT Subject: [Jacob-list] Fwd: Where to purchase Message-ID: The February 2009 issue of the JSBA Newsletter contains an article about Leigh Nelson's importing a couple of sheep from the US to Canada just recently. -Dan **************A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy steps! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1222377034x1201454326/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072&hmpgID=62&bcd= MaystepsfooterNO62) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Williams at jacobsheep.com Wed May 27 14:29:27 2009 From: Williams at jacobsheep.com (Lela Obrien) Date: Wed, 27 May 2009 15:29:27 -0300 Subject: [Jacob-list] =?koi8-r?b?Q8zV1sJhIMTP09TB18vJINLFy8xhzc7ZyCDQydNl?= =?koi8-r?b?zQ==?= Message-ID: <398884655.51013108964526@bowermanart.com> ???????? ?? ???????? ????????, ?? ?? ??? ???? ?????????? ????? ???? ???????????? ???????? email ?a??????. ?????????? ???????? ???????????? ?? ???????, ? ?? ??????????? ???????. ??? ????????? ? ????????! ??????????? ? ???, ????????? ???????????? ??????? ?? ?????? ?????! ICQ: 879-972 From gbanderson at ucdavis.edu Sat May 30 20:35:30 2009 From: gbanderson at ucdavis.edu (Gary Anderson) Date: Sat, 30 May 2009 17:35:30 -0700 Subject: [Jacob-list] Website update Message-ID: Saturday evenings are for.updating websites. Individual photos of our 2009 lambs have been added to our website (www.hillsidejacobs.com ); click on the 'For sale' page. We welcome all queries on purchase of our lambs. As explained on our website, our lambs were born in early April and will be ready to wean in early June. Select a lamb or two for pick-up at the JSBA Annual General Meeting, which we will attend in Mason, Michigan June 26-28. Gary Anderson Hillside Jacobs Sparta, MI -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: