From patchworkfibers at alltel.net  Sun Mar  1 07:21:29 2009
From: patchworkfibers at alltel.net (Linda)
Date: Sun, 1 Mar 2009 07:21:29 -0500
Subject: [Jacob-list] lambs in the southeast
Message-ID: <20093172129.573186@Linda-PC>

Just curious..who's got lambs in the southeast district?

On an internet tour of farms, I see that Painted Rock started out with a bang - triple rams! Perfect Spot has some really beauties. Here at Patchwork, we added another four horned lilac ram lamb. We're ready for a some ewes here!

Linda
? 
http://www.patchworkfibers.com 
Registered Jacob Sheep, Handspun Yarn  
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From walkabout at pemtel.net  Sun Mar  1 07:50:00 2009
From: walkabout at pemtel.net (Susan Donoghue)
Date: Sun, 1 Mar 2009 07:50:00 -0500
Subject: [Jacob-list] Fwd:  lambs in the southeast
References: <613E2901-6AA4-416D-BBD1-BEA95BC228C5@pemtel.net>
Message-ID: <39CE5C1A-8F0C-4147-B404-970B0A460A07@pemtel.net>



> From: Susan Donoghue <walkabout at pemtel.net>
> Date: March 1, 2009 7:44:16 AM EST
> To: Linda <patchworkfibers at alltel.net>
> Subject: Re: [Jacob-list] lambs in the southeast
>
> On Mar 1, 2009, at 7:21 AM, Linda wrote:
>
>> Just curious..who's got lambs in the southeast district?
>>
>> On an internet tour of farms, I see that Painted Rock started out  
>> with a bang - triple rams! Perfect Spot has some really beauties.  
>> Here at Patchwork, we added another four horned lilac ram lamb.  
>> We're ready for a some ewes here!
>
> First lambs this morning --- twins out of Painted Rock Delaney!!   
> Thanks to Cheryl of Painted Rock Jacobs for facilitating the  
> purchase of a delightful starter flock eight months ago.
>
> cheers,
> Sue
>
>
> Susan Donoghue, VMD
> Walkabout Farm & Conservancy
> Pembroke, VA

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From rlynde at onramp113.org  Sun Mar  1 13:35:01 2009
From: rlynde at onramp113.org (Robin Lynde)
Date: Sun, 1 Mar 2009 10:35:01 -0800
Subject: [Jacob-list] lambs in the southeast
References: <20093172129.573186@Linda-PC>
Message-ID: <EA100C8077E64ED483D2DDE0B69689D8@your4dacd0ea75>

My flock started lambing Tuesday and I have 25 lambs out of 12 ewes so far with about 35 more to go. No photos on my website yet because I'm just about ready to put up a brand new website--been working on that. I have just a couple of photos on my blog www.meridianjacobs.wordpress.com --more later. I just answered an e-mail from someone who wants to but Jacob sheep that are docile. I replied that if she wants to be convinced that my sheep are docile--I broke my arm in January and had surgery a few weeks ago. I have a cast and can't use that arm for much of anything  (which by the way is why some of you may be waiting for reg papers--I limit my one-handed typing) but have done all the lambing chores myself with the exception of getting someone to dump the wheelbarrows and do some of the heavy mucking out in the main part of the barn. Its hard to lift a fully loaded pitchfork with one hand, 
Robin Lynde
Meridian Jacobs
Vacaville, CA 
www.meridianjacobs.com 
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Linda 
  To: Jacob-list 
  Sent: Sunday, March 01, 2009 4:21 AM
  Subject: [Jacob-list] lambs in the southeast


  Just curious..who's got lambs in the southeast district?

  On an internet tour of farms, I see that Painted Rock started out with a bang - triple rams! Perfect Spot has some really beauties. Here at Patchwork, we added another four horned lilac ram lamb. We're ready for a some ewes here!

  Linda
    
  http://www.patchworkfibers.com 
  Registered Jacob Sheep, Handspun Yarn  



------------------------------------------------------------------------------


  _______________________________________________
  Jacob-list mailing list, sponsored by Swallow Lane Farm & Fiberworks
  Jacob-list at jacobsheep.com
  http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/jacob-list
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From stcroft at ptd.net  Mon Mar  2 12:14:36 2009
From: stcroft at ptd.net (Susan J Martin)
Date: Mon, 2 Mar 2009 12:14:36 -0500
Subject: [Jacob-list] Suggestions for top seeding meadows
Message-ID: <22DE625F4B994C4FA368877E703B758A@Ultra>

We have several meadows for our sheep - probably totaling not over 6 acres.  We have bare spots and need to top seed and we thought we would just take advantage of the freeze/thaw situation here in southeast PA and scatter the seed in early Spring - like soon (well, after this current blizzard is over!)   Then I spoke with the seed distributor who told me that grass seed really doesn't do well in this application, that it is too light, will just blow away and won't germinate - that we should drill it in.  However, we are hobby shepherds - we have a 20 horse Kubota tractor, no drill, no cultipacker, etc.  So, can anyone on the list give me suggestions of how we can top seed - please don't suggest a landscaper to do the job because the cost would be prohibitive - it would be more economical to just let the bare spots and buy hay!!

Thanks......you guys always are so helpful.

Sue Martin
Stonecroft
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From kenleighacres at yahoo.com  Mon Mar  2 12:45:39 2009
From: kenleighacres at yahoo.com (Shannon Phifer)
Date: Mon, 2 Mar 2009 09:45:39 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Jacob-list] Suggestions for top seeding meadows
In-Reply-To: <mailman.7.1236014125.83127.jacob-list@jacobsheep.com>
References: <mailman.7.1236014125.83127.jacob-list@jacobsheep.com>
Message-ID: <39232.96141.qm@web51009.mail.re2.yahoo.com>


Hi Sue - We have had great success?top seeding with annual rye grass.? We live in the grass seed capital of the world and have access to fairly inexpensive rye grass seed.? Annual rye grass is very aggresive and we are using?it to choke out?some of the less palatable grasses/weeds that we have in our pastures.? By top seeding you will lose some of the seed to the wind, birds, etc. but it is obviously much cheaper than drilling the seed.? You just need to use a seed that is aggressive enough to take hold.? Several of the grass seed farmers in the area like to say that?annual rye grass will?grow on a New York sidewalk in the?middle of winter :)? ????
?
Shannon Phifer
Kenleigh Acres Farm
www.kenleigh-acres.com
That'll Do Photography
www.thatlldo.photoreflect.com




Message: 2
Date: Mon, 2 Mar 2009 12:14:36 -0500
From: "Susan J Martin" <stcroft at ptd.net>
Subject: [Jacob-list] Suggestions for top seeding meadows
To: "Sheep E-mail List" <jacob-list at jacobsheep.com>
Message-ID: <22DE625F4B994C4FA368877E703B758A at Ultra>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252"

We have several meadows for our sheep - probably totaling not over 6 acres.? We have bare spots and need to top seed and we thought we would just take advantage of the freeze/thaw situation here in southeast PA and scatter the seed in early Spring - like soon (well, after this current blizzard is over!)? Then I spoke with the seed distributor who told me that grass seed really doesn't do well in this application, that it is too light, will just blow away and won't germinate - that we should drill it in.? However, we are hobby shepherds - we have a 20 horse Kubota tractor, no drill, no cultipacker, etc.? So, can anyone on the list give me suggestions of how we can top seed - please don't suggest a landscaper to do the job because the cost would be prohibitive - it would be more economical to just let the bare spots and buy hay!!

Thanks......you guys always are so helpful.

Sue Martin
Stonecroft


From griffin45 at live.com  Mon Mar  2 16:40:12 2009
From: griffin45 at live.com (Chris and Tina Griffin)
Date: Mon, 2 Mar 2009 16:40:12 -0500
Subject: [Jacob-list] Jacob-list Digest, Vol 56, Issue 1
In-Reply-To: <mailman.7.1235927719.81929.jacob-list@jacobsheep.com>
References: <mailman.7.1235927719.81929.jacob-list@jacobsheep.com>
Message-ID: <BLU139-DS6828EAFA0990DE815E5B4D9A90@phx.gbl>

We are doing great here in South Central Virginia, 3 ewe lambs (2 Four horns) so far and I think our last ewe is going to lamb soon.  She went willingly to the jug a little while ago.  I thought she was arching a little, and it looks like the lamb is rolling into place.  Could be my imagination, but why take chances.  She wasn't isolating herself yet, but she can spend the rest of the week in the Jug and that will make our job here that much easier.  Number one and two were complete surprises and number three was obvious.  We are not taking any chances with Number 4, the weather that we are expecting here tonight is going to be a bit chilly and windy.  Good Lambing all!

Chris - Chatham, Va.
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From nlgrose at yadtel.net  Mon Mar  2 16:35:00 2009
From: nlgrose at yadtel.net (Neal and Louise Grose)
Date: Mon, 2 Mar 2009 16:35:00 -0500
Subject: [Jacob-list] Suggestions for top seeding meadows
References: <mailman.7.1236014125.83127.jacob-list@jacobsheep.com>
	<39232.96141.qm@web51009.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <3CE856E847304EC7BB39F7C6A130ABF7@HAL2>

Ryegrass is a good fall seeded winter annual, but probably won't do us much 
good this far south in for the summer. My Granny would role over in her 
grave, but improved crab-grass varieties are available and sheep love the 
stuff.

Neal
North Carolina

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Shannon Phifer" <kenleighacres at yahoo.com>
To: <jacob-list at jacobsheep.com>
Sent: Monday, March 02, 2009 12:45 PM
Subject: Re: [Jacob-list] Suggestions for top seeding meadows



Hi Sue - We have had great success top seeding with annual rye grass. We 
live in the grass seed capital of the world and have access to fairly 
inexpensive rye grass seed. Annual rye grass is very aggresive and we are 
using it to choke out some of the less palatable grasses/weeds that we have 
in our pastures. By top seeding you will lose some of the seed to the wind, 
birds, etc. but it is obviously much cheaper than drilling the seed. You 
just need to use a seed that is aggressive enough to take hold. Several of 
the grass seed farmers in the area like to say that annual rye grass will 
grow on a New York sidewalk in the middle of winter :)

Shannon Phifer
Kenleigh Acres Farm
www.kenleigh-acres.com
That'll Do Photography
www.thatlldo.photoreflect.com




Message: 2
Date: Mon, 2 Mar 2009 12:14:36 -0500
From: "Susan J Martin" <stcroft at ptd.net>
Subject: [Jacob-list] Suggestions for top seeding meadows
To: "Sheep E-mail List" <jacob-list at jacobsheep.com>
Message-ID: <22DE625F4B994C4FA368877E703B758A at Ultra>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252"

We have several meadows for our sheep - probably totaling not over 6 acres. 
We have bare spots and need to top seed and we thought we would just take 
advantage of the freeze/thaw situation here in southeast PA and scatter the 
seed in early Spring - like soon (well, after this current blizzard is 
over!) Then I spoke with the seed distributor who told me that grass seed 
really doesn't do well in this application, that it is too light, will just 
blow away and won't germinate - that we should drill it in. However, we are 
hobby shepherds - we have a 20 horse Kubota tractor, no drill, no 
cultipacker, etc. So, can anyone on the list give me suggestions of how we 
can top seed - please don't suggest a landscaper to do the job because the 
cost would be prohibitive - it would be more economical to just let the bare 
spots and buy hay!!

Thanks......you guys always are so helpful.

Sue Martin
Stonecroft

_______________________________________________
Jacob-list mailing list, sponsored by Swallow Lane Farm & Fiberworks
Jacob-list at jacobsheep.com
http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/jacob-list


From gotothewhip at aol.com  Mon Mar  2 16:56:25 2009
From: gotothewhip at aol.com (gotothewhip at aol.com)
Date: Mon, 02 Mar 2009 16:56:25 -0500
Subject: [Jacob-list] Suggestions for top seeding meadows
In-Reply-To: <22DE625F4B994C4FA368877E703B758A@Ultra>
References: <22DE625F4B994C4FA368877E703B758A@Ultra>
Message-ID: <8CB6998DDA3D587-8F0-2F2@webmail-md10.sysops.aol.com>


Hi Sue!? 

Just some background on me... I am a small acreage specialst for Colorado State University Extension.? 90% of what I do is helping folks manage their pastures....

With that said... I am not qualified to answer your question.

To get the best and most correct answer to you planting quaestions would be your local extension agent or someone with your NRCS.? Seeding types, rates and methods vary sometimes within the county, and very much so in the state or nation... For instance, we get 8-12 INCHES annual moisture here.. so any advice I would give you from my knowlege her is null and void where you are.

Also, ask yourself what you? want to achieve with your grass... Is it a food source for your sheep or more of an activity to go out and graze.? Be careful with planting your sheep's favorite grasses, as often this means they will graze that grass down to nothing, and your back to bare spots!? 

Also Check with your NRCS office as often they have a grass seed drill for use within the county! 

Reguardless of where you live,? seed to soil contact is ESSENTIAL..... and that may be difficult without any cultivation.? In your area, that might mean a harrow, or even a piece of chain link fence weighted down, drug over the area to allow the seed to make contact.

I am in the middle of reclaiming a pasture that was over grazed by the previous owners of my place.? In order to get grass established, I am on a 7 year plan that involves planting a cover crop of sterile Milo, and then drilling into the stalks of milo my native seeds.? I seeded my other pastures in introduced grasses to give me options.. the intorduced grasses are cool season grasses which give me grazing options in the spring and fall, while the native pastures I am planting now, will make a good summertime pasture, as they are warm season grasses.

Let me know if you need anything!

Jennifer Tucker
www.MooseMtnRanch.com

-----Original Message-----
From: Susan J Martin <stcroft at ptd.net>
To: Sheep E-mail List <jacob-list at jacobsheep.com>
Sent: Mon, 2 Mar 2009 10:14 am
Subject: [Jacob-list] Suggestions for top seeding meadows



We have several meadows for our sheep - probably totaling not over 6 acres.? We have bare spots and need to top seed and we thought we would just take advantage of the freeze/thaw situation here in southeast PA and scatter the seed in early Spring - like soon (well, after this current blizzard is over!) ? Then I spoke with the seed distributor who told me that grass seed really doesn't do well in this application, that it is too light, will just blow away and won't germinate?- that we should drill it in.? However, we are hobby shepherds - we have a 20 horse Kubota tractor, no drill, no cultipacker, etc.? So, can anyone on the list give me suggestions of how we can top seed - please don't suggest a landscaper to do the job because the cost would be prohibitive - it would be more economical to just let the bare spots and buy hay!!

?

Thanks......you guys always are so helpful.

?

Sue Martin

Stonecroft



_______________________________________________
Jacob-list mailing list, sponsored by Swallow Lane Farm & Fiberworks
Jacob-list at jacobsheep.com
http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/jacob-list

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From patchworkfibers at alltel.net  Mon Mar  2 18:34:49 2009
From: patchworkfibers at alltel.net (Linda)
Date: Mon, 2 Mar 2009 18:34:49 -0500
Subject: [Jacob-list] Suggestions for top seeding meadows
In-Reply-To: <3CE856E847304EC7BB39F7C6A130ABF7@HAL2>
Message-ID: <200932183449.066026@Linda-PC>

Do you know someplace I can get crab grass in smaller quantities? I want to put some in, but don't want/need 50 lbs.

Linda

Ryegrass is a good fall seeded winter annual, but probably won't do us much
good this far south in for the summer. My Granny would role over in her
grave, but improved crab-grass varieties are available and sheep love the
stuff.
 
Neal
North Carolina
 

? 
http://www.patchworkfibers.com 
Registered Jacob Sheep, Handspun Yarn  
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From patchworkfibers at alltel.net  Mon Mar  2 18:48:24 2009
From: patchworkfibers at alltel.net (Linda)
Date: Mon, 2 Mar 2009 18:48:24 -0500
Subject: [Jacob-list] Suggestions for top seeding meadows
In-Reply-To: <22DE625F4B994C4FA368877E703B758A@Ultra>
Message-ID: <200932184824.185409@Linda-PC>

We have a 25 horse Mahindra 4wd, but there are spots too steep for the tractor - and we don't have alot of attachments for it. I've had good luck with broadcasting seed by hand. One way is to toss the seed and then shake some fresh hay over it. The sheep will come and eat the hay and trample some of the seed in and the leftover hay helps to cover and hold the seed. For fine seeds, I mix the seeds with some bagged compost and toss that. The compost keeps me from dumping a glump of seed in one spot and does help cover and hold the seed. Around here (north Georgia), the only seed I've tried frost seeding is clover and that's done well.
I do seed annual ryegrass all year long, but, as Neal says it doesn't do well this time of year. But, it works great on some of our steep banks. It sprouts in about three minutes (maybe slightly longer), helps to hold the "good" seed in place, and then dies out.

Linda

~~~~~~~~~

 
We have several meadows for our sheep - probably totaling not over 6 acres.  We have bare spots and need to top seed and we thought we would just take advantage of the freeze/thaw situation here in southeast PA and scatter the seed in early Spring - like soon (well, after this current blizzard is over!)   Then I spoke with the seed distributor who told me that grass seed really doesn't do well in this application, that it is too light, will just blow away and won't germinate - that we should drill it in.  However, we are hobby shepherds - we have a 20 horse Kubota tractor, no drill, no cultipacker, etc.  So, can anyone on the list give me suggestions of how we can top seed - please don't suggest a landscaper to do the job because the cost would be prohibitive - it would be more economical to just let the bare spots and buy hay!!
 
Thanks......you guys always are so helpful.
 
Sue Martin
Stonecroft   
http://www.patchworkfibers.com
 Registered Jacob Sheep, Handspun Yarn  

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From nlgrose at yadtel.net  Mon Mar  2 19:15:10 2009
From: nlgrose at yadtel.net (Neal and Louise Grose)
Date: Mon, 2 Mar 2009 19:15:10 -0500
Subject: [Jacob-list] Suggestions for top seeding meadows
References: <200932183449.066026@Linda-PC>
Message-ID: <99C81CB1827A4261959A37ACEAA709D2@HAL2>

I generally get seed from my dairy feed supplier who has an interest in grazing and high quality forages for his customers. I found the following link to an on-line supplier who sells in smaller quantities, but I have not used it and can not make a recommendation. They have information on several varieties of crabgrass as well as other forages. 
Neal

http://www.seedland.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=CTGY&Store_Code=Seedland&Category_Code=FS-CRABGRASS


  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Linda 
  To: Neal and Louise Grose ; jacob-list at jacobsheep.com 
  Sent: Monday, March 02, 2009 6:34 PM
  Subject: Re: [Jacob-list] Suggestions for top seeding meadows


  Do you know someplace I can get crab grass in smaller quantities? I want to put some in, but don't want/need 50 lbs.

  Linda


  Ryegrass is a good fall seeded winter annual, but probably won't do us much
  good this far south in for the summer. My Granny would role over in her
  grave, but improved crab-grass varieties are available and sheep love the
  stuff.

  Neal
  North Carolina


    
  http://www.patchworkfibers.com 
  Registered Jacob Sheep, Handspun Yarn  
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From patchworkfibers at alltel.net  Wed Mar  4 08:32:42 2009
From: patchworkfibers at alltel.net (Linda)
Date: Wed, 4 Mar 2009 08:32:42 -0500
Subject: [Jacob-list] big scare
Message-ID: <20093483242.673378@Linda-PC>

On Monday, I needed to give one of the ewes a shot. I put a rope halter on her - the kind that is one continuous rope and tightens to fit. I use the nylon halters that buckle on for most things, but the slip halter is handy and abit easier to put on while holding the sheep in the one hand. I tied the end of the halter to a panel, gave the shot, and slipped the halter off the ewe. Being rushed and not thinking, I left the halter tied to the panel.
A bit later, I came back to the barn. Zevon was sleeping in a corner and his mother was hollaring at him. When I checked him, I found him with the halter around his neck - the part that tightens when you pull. This story could have had a tragic ending, but it appears that Zevon decided to just take a nap rather than fight the halter around his neck. Upon release, he ran to nurse and then went bouncing away with the other lambs.
I know the danger of leaving ropes dangling around horned sheep, but I was in a rush. I don't think I'll forget again!

Linda
? 
http://www.patchworkfibers.com 
Registered Jacob Sheep, Handspun Yarn  
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From RNS1260 at comcast.net  Wed Mar  4 09:16:34 2009
From: RNS1260 at comcast.net (RNS1260 at comcast.net)
Date: Wed, 4 Mar 2009 14:16:34 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [Jacob-list] Twin Lambs
In-Reply-To: <1710805627.5040851236174460756.JavaMail.root@sz0160a.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net>
Message-ID: <1349393070.5055421236176194269.JavaMail.root@sz0160a.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net>








Our first baby lambs for the season have finally arrived. Twin lambs, one ewe and one ram lamb. Twill is the proud mama of Tiramisu and Dartmoor. As Daisey entered the barn, the llamas and alpacas walked casually away form the scene of the birth. It appeared, that Twill had a large group of confident supporters.There will be other lambs?to follow in the coming weeks. I am not particularly found of the cold Pennsylvania winters, but this makes up for every minute of it. 

Lamb pic. to be viewed at: http://www.risenshinefarm.com/lambsforsale.html 



Cheryl & Daisey 

www.risenshinefarm.com
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From lynettefrick at gmail.com  Wed Mar  4 09:41:39 2009
From: lynettefrick at gmail.com (Lynette Frick)
Date: Wed, 4 Mar 2009 08:41:39 -0600
Subject: [Jacob-list] Jacob-list Digest, Vol 56, Issue 3
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1237.1236036895.66612.jacob-list@jacobsheep.com>
References: <mailman.1237.1236036895.66612.jacob-list@jacobsheep.com>
Message-ID: <22872c750903040641g2ba2d8c7r4e99fb041331a6a4@mail.gmail.com>

Well, so far 2 lilac Ram Lambs, One blk/wht Ram lamb, and 1 blk/wht ewe
lamb. With about 16 more established ewes to go!

I hope all of you are still having a happy lambing! Can't wait until
everyone puts up their new pics on their pages!



-- 
Lynette Frick
IDEAL FARM
Jacob Sheep
www.idealjacobsheep.com/
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From sarbuddy at sbcglobal.net  Wed Mar  4 17:49:44 2009
From: sarbuddy at sbcglobal.net (Carol LUSSKY)
Date: Wed, 4 Mar 2009 14:49:44 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Jacob-list] Shearing question
References: <1349393070.5055421236176194269.JavaMail.root@sz0160a.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net>
Message-ID: <650124.8922.qm@web81205.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Rather than asking when folks shear and getting a range of months I'm wondering at what temperature is it safe to shear?? Being in the Chicago area we can have 30 degrees one day and 60 the next....when is it "safe" to begin shearing?

Carol

?



________________________________
From: "RNS1260 at comcast.net" <RNS1260 at comcast.net>
To: Jacob list to post <jacob-list at jacobsheep.com>
Sent: Wednesday, March 4, 2009 8:16:34 AM
Subject: [Jacob-list] Twin Lambs


?
Our first baby lambs for the season have finally arrived. Twin lambs, one ewe and one ram lamb. Twill is the proud mama of Tiramisu and Dartmoor. As Daisey entered the barn, the llamas and alpacas walked casually away form the scene of the birth. It appeared, that Twill had a large group of confident supporters.There will be other lambs?to follow in the coming weeks. I am not particularly found of the cold Pennsylvania winters, but this makes up for every minute of it.
Lamb pic. to be viewed at: http://www.risenshinefarm.com/lambsforsale.html
?
Cheryl & Daisey
www.risenshinefarm.com 
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From gotothewhip at aol.com  Wed Mar  4 18:32:31 2009
From: gotothewhip at aol.com (gotothewhip at aol.com)
Date: Wed, 04 Mar 2009 18:32:31 -0500
Subject: [Jacob-list] Shearing question
In-Reply-To: <650124.8922.qm@web81205.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <1349393070.5055421236176194269.JavaMail.root@sz0160a.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net>
	<650124.8922.qm@web81205.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <8CB6B389F679E1D-180-DD@WEBMAIL-MY05.sysops.aol.com>

We live in Colorado.. It is 76 now, but was cold not too long ago, and will be cold and snowy again....

We sheared the last week of? January and have no issues.


-----Original Message-----
From: Carol LUSSKY <sarbuddy at sbcglobal.net>
To: jacob-list at jacobsheep.com
Sent: Wed, 4 Mar 2009 3:49 pm
Subject: [Jacob-list] Shearing question




Rather than asking when folks shear and getting a range of months I'm wondering at what temperature is it safe to shear?? Being in the Chicago area we can have 30 degrees one day and 60 the next....when is it "safe" to begin shearing?

?

Carol


?



From: "RNS1260 at comcast.net" <RNS1260 at comcast.net>
To: Jacob list to post <jacob-list at jacobsheep.com>
Sent: Wednesday, March 4, 2009 8:16:34 AM
Subject: [Jacob-list] Twin Lambs





?


Our first baby lambs for the season have finally arrived. Twin lambs, one ewe and one ram lamb. Twill is the proud mama of Tiramisu and Dartmoor. As Daisey entered the barn, the llamas and alpacas walked casually away form the scene of the birth. It appeared, that Twill had a large group of confident supporters.There will be other lambs?to follow in the coming weeks. I am not particularly found of the cold Pennsylvania winters, but this makes up for every minute of it.

Lamb pic. to be viewed at: http://www.risenshinefarm.com/lambsforsale.html

?

Cheryl & Daisey

www.risenshinefarm.com 









_______________________________________________
Jacob-list mailing list, sponsored by Swallow Lane Farm & Fiberworks
Jacob-list at jacobsheep.com
http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/jacob-list

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From tcarnes at carnesely.com  Wed Mar  4 20:01:10 2009
From: tcarnes at carnesely.com (Thomas P. Carnes)
Date: Thu, 5 Mar 2009 01:01:10 +0000
Subject: [Jacob-list] Shearing question
In-Reply-To: <8CB6B389F679E1D-180-DD@WEBMAIL-MY05.sysops.aol.com>
References: <1349393070.5055421236176194269.JavaMail.root@sz0160a.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net><650124.8922.qm@web81205.mail.mud.yahoo.com><8CB6B389F679E1D-180-DD@WEBMAIL-MY05.sysops.aol.com>
Message-ID: <465954419-1236214892-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-871791463-@bxe1048.bisx.prod.on.blackberry>

In texas, our sheep our outside year round. We actually sheer in late April and May, after lambing ends. 
Thomas P. Carnes
713.921.7790 (Telephone)
713.921.7793 (Facsimile)
tcarnes at carnesely.com

Sent from my Verizon Wireless

-----Original Message-----
From: gotothewhip at aol.com

Date: Wed, 04 Mar 2009 18:32:31 
To: <sarbuddy at sbcglobal.net>; <jacob-list at jacobsheep.com>
Subject: Re: [Jacob-list] Shearing question


_______________________________________________
Jacob-list mailing list, sponsored by Swallow Lane Farm & Fiberworks
Jacob-list at jacobsheep.com
http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/jacob-list


From schmick54 at aol.com  Wed Mar  4 23:38:07 2009
From: schmick54 at aol.com (schmick54 at aol.com)
Date: Wed, 04 Mar 2009 23:38:07 -0500
Subject: [Jacob-list] Shearing question
In-Reply-To: <650124.8922.qm@web81205.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <1349393070.5055421236176194269.JavaMail.root@sz0160a.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net>
	<650124.8922.qm@web81205.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <8CB6B63508545AD-1648-1126@WEBMAIL-MZ17.sysops.aol.com>


 We're in Colorado. We have wide ranges of temperature, too. We shear 6 weeks before lambing. Jacobs are hardy. They can take it !! We put plenty of straw in our sheds and they do fine. They might shiver a little as they get used to their "altered state" ,but after a week they don't even remember they're naked. Shearing them before lambing makes it easier to see what the ewes are doing and when they will lamb. It's easier on the lambs to find the teats, and because they might be a little chilly, they are more likely to go inside the barn or shed to lamb instead of dropping them on the cold, hard ground.

If you're lucky enough to have a shearer available when you want to shear, that's? a big advantage.

Mick


 


 

-----Original Message-----
From: Carol LUSSKY <sarbuddy at sbcglobal.net>
To: jacob-list at jacobsheep.com
Sent: Wed, 4 Mar 2009 3:49 pm
Subject: [Jacob-list] Shearing question











Rather than asking when folks shear and getting a range of months I'm wondering at what temperature is it safe to shear?? Being in the Chicago area we can have 30 degrees one day and 60 the next....when is it "safe" to begin shearing?


?


Carol



?









From: "RNS1260 at comcast.net" <RNS1260 at comcast.net>
To: Jacob list to post <jacob-list at jacobsheep.com>
Sent: Wednesday, March 4, 2009 8:16:34 AM
Subject: [Jacob-list] Twin Lambs











?



Our first baby lambs for the season have finally arrived. Twin lambs, one ewe and one ram lamb. Twill is the proud mama of Tiramisu and Dartmoor. As Daisey entered the barn, the llamas and alpacas walked casually away form the scene of the birth. It appeared, that Twill had a large group of confident supporters.There will be other lambs?to follow in the coming weeks. I am not particularly found of the cold Pennsylvania winters, but this makes up for every minute of it.


Lamb pic. to be viewed at: http://www.risenshinefarm.com/lambsforsale.html




?


Cheryl & Daisey


www.risenshinefarm.com 







 





_______________________________________________
Jacob-list mailing list, sponsored by Swallow Lane Farm & Fiberworks
Jacob-list at jacobsheep.com
http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/jacob-list



 

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From aztreaz at earthlink.net  Thu Mar  5 14:37:14 2009
From: aztreaz at earthlink.net (ARTHUR PARTRIDGE)
Date: Thu, 5 Mar 2009 11:37:14 -0800
Subject: [Jacob-list] Shearing question
Message-ID: <410-22009345193714375@earthlink.net>

--Previous Message--
>Rather than asking when folks shear and getting a range of months I'm
wondering at what temperature is it safe to shear?? Being in the >Chicago
area we can have 30 degrees one day and 60 the next....when is it "safe" to
begin shearing?
> 
>Carol
============
There was a post on sheep-l a few weeks ago from someone who lives in the
New England area.  She had sheared the sheep in October.  In February she
noticed some bald patches on some of the sheep.  These palm-sized areas
were pink with no scaling of the skin.  The diagnosis was frost bite.  The
temperature at the time was minus 20 degrees and they had a very cold
winter.  This is something to be aware of.  I don't know if frost bite
would hurt the quality of the fleece in the future.  I don't know if the
skin is permanently damaged.  We shear in late March.  Lambing is in April.

Cathy
Moscow, Idaho



From kenleighacres at yahoo.com  Thu Mar  5 14:57:17 2009
From: kenleighacres at yahoo.com (Shannon Phifer)
Date: Thu, 5 Mar 2009 11:57:17 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Jacob-list] Lambs for sale and can be delivered to Indiana
Message-ID: <166406.9865.qm@web51009.mail.re2.yahoo.com>


Hi Everyone!? We are done lambing with a total of 40 lambs - 21 ewes and 19 rams.? Some of the lambs are headed to Indiana and there are a few more spots available.? All of our lambs?and pedigrees can be seen?here - http://www.kenleigh-acres.com/2009%20Lambs.htm? The transporter needs a head count soon, so please let me know if you are interested!

Thank you!
?
Shannon Phifer
Kenleigh Acres Farm
www.kenleigh-acres.com
www.kenleighacres.wordpress.com

From fourhornfarm at verizon.net  Thu Mar  5 21:15:48 2009
From: fourhornfarm at verizon.net (fourhornfarm)
Date: Thu, 5 Mar 2009 21:15:48 -0500
Subject: [Jacob-list] Lambs for sale and can be delivered to Indiana
References: <166406.9865.qm@web51009.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <B6C6907DF9A84C7CA09CC4270A0A6D34@DollyLama>

Transportation from Indiana to the AGM in Michigan may also be available.
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Shannon Phifer" <kenleighacres at yahoo.com>
To: <jacob-list at jacobsheep.com>
Sent: Thursday, March 05, 2009 2:57 PM
Subject: [Jacob-list] Lambs for sale and can be delivered to Indiana



Hi Everyone! We are done lambing with a total of 40 lambs - 21 ewes and 19 
rams. Some of the lambs are headed to Indiana and there are a few more spots 
available. All of our lambs and pedigrees can be seen here - 
http://www.kenleigh-acres.com/2009%20Lambs.htm The transporter needs a head 
count soon, so please let me know if you are interested!

Thank you!

Shannon Phifer
Kenleigh Acres Farm
www.kenleigh-acres.com
www.kenleighacres.wordpress.com
_______________________________________________
Jacob-list mailing list, sponsored by Swallow Lane Farm & Fiberworks
Jacob-list at jacobsheep.com
http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/jacob-list


From carlfosbrink at yahoo.com  Fri Mar  6 11:09:00 2009
From: carlfosbrink at yahoo.com (CARL FOSBRINK)
Date: Fri, 6 Mar 2009 08:09:00 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Jacob-list] Jacobs
Message-ID: <341505.4846.qm@web55502.mail.re4.yahoo.com>

Greetings,
?
?? Here at 4Horn Farm's Jacob sheep we still have about 7 more ewes to lamb, but as of now have 50 new lambs, 22 ram lambs and 28 ewe lambs.
???We are?planning on attending the AGM in Michigan and can deliver adult ewes and rams, lambs?& also lambs from Shannon Phifer.
?? We will get our web site up to date a.s.a.p. and you can let us know if there is something you are interested in.
?
Regards to all,
Carl

?
Carl and Judy Fosbrink
www.4hornfarm.com
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From gotothewhip at aol.com  Fri Mar  6 23:06:18 2009
From: gotothewhip at aol.com (gotothewhip at aol.com)
Date: Fri, 06 Mar 2009 23:06:18 -0500
Subject: [Jacob-list] Help, baby problem
Message-ID: <8CB6CF13363C090-AD8-2851@WEBMAIL-MZ17.sysops.aol.com>

Vet is busy with a horse colic tonight, but visited with me on the phone.

First time lamber "Tiny" a ewe we purchased, we were a bit worried about her as she was a bottle raised lamb and does not socialise with other sheep well.....
?(Due as per ultrasound with twins tomarrow)went into labor with 1st water sack popped at 5:15
I made it home by 5:50.? She had made no progress, and my hubby said she had not been pushing much.
I palpated a live lamb nose and 1 foot.? I pushed it back it, grabbed another foot, and pulled the lamb as mom wasnt pushing much.

the lamb was born wiggling, I had to clear its lungs as it was pretty fluid filled... Got it to finally sneeze. it was lively, although gasping for air.
Tiny went to cleaning the ewe lamb, and I noticed the lamb was throwing its head back and running with its feet.

I waited about 30 minutes, and when it seemed she was not going to try to push the other lamb out, I went and fished its legs out, and with a little help from Tiny, delivered lamb #2.

Ewe lamb also... Not quite as big as lamb #1, but normal behavior.... Stood within 10 minutes of birth

The first lamb finally stopped running its legs (while laying down) and I tried to get it to stand.. not at all possible.? I held both lambs up, and BOTH lambs sucked clostrum well.

at 7:30, we made the decision that the first little lamb would not make it outside as it couldnt stand.

we brought it in the house after getting another dose of Moms clostrum into it.

As per vet, we gave 3 cc Vitamin B complex, and 4cc of Dexmethazone(steroid for possible swelling of brain) injections as well as some honey on the gums.? I also gave a dose of Nutri Drench and Baby Lamb Strength liquid.? I have offered a little powdered clostrum in a bottle to keep the belly warm.

Any insight

Jennifer Tucker
Moose Mtn Ranch
Bennett, CO




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From evelyn489 at aol.com  Sat Mar  7 19:12:15 2009
From: evelyn489 at aol.com (evelyn489 at aol.com)
Date: Sat, 07 Mar 2009 19:12:15 -0500
Subject: [Jacob-list] question lambing
Message-ID: <8CB6D99AB7D53B8-10CC-2DFE@webmail-da11.sysops.aol.com>


Hi,

?

???? I have a ewe that's really bagged up and pink and she shouldn't be due for another month.? Should I worry?? We are pretty new to lambing.? Last year this same ewe aborted her first pregnancy a month early.? Right now she's eating fine, acting fine - but she has a really full udder (soft) and a low belly.

?

Thanks!

?

Evelyn

?
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From fourwinds at gotsky.com  Sun Mar  8 16:31:20 2009
From: fourwinds at gotsky.com (Lorraine Nielsen)
Date: Sun, 8 Mar 2009 20:31:20 -0000 (GMT)
Subject: [Jacob-list] horn question
Message-ID: <1348.70.41.214.127.1236544280.squirrel@admintool.trueband.net>

It's wonderful hearing about all the lambing going on. We don't lamb until
May this year, so all of your pictures on your websites are helping build
excitement.

For Evelyn--We were first-time lambers last year. I remember thinking my
ewes looked due way before they actually delivered. Udders often harden
before birth and some ewes will look pink for a long time.

I have a couple of questions about horn growth: I have a 10-month old
4-horn ram who tore one of his lower horns apart from his head (don't know
how he did it!) I was successful in stopping the bleeding and he seems
okay. Should I let the horn slough off, or remove it? Will another grow
back, given his age?

Lorraine Nielsen
Four Winds Farm
Crescent Mills, CA





From paintedrockfarm at aol.com  Sun Mar  8 16:59:43 2009
From: paintedrockfarm at aol.com (Cheryl Terrano)
Date: Sun, 08 Mar 2009 16:59:43 -0400
Subject: [Jacob-list] lambing
Message-ID: <8CB6E47F0EB2C74-15A4-8C4@MBLK-M04.sysops.aol.com>

We are about half way through our lambing, with 12 more ewes still to deliver. Thus far, we have 13 rams and 11 ewes, which includes 2 sets of triplets already. We updated the website earlier today with a few pics, still more to come as time (and sleep) allows!

Hope everyone else's lambing is going smoothly! 

Cheryl Terrano in WV
http://www.paintedrockfarm.com
http://paintedrockfarm.blogspot.com 


WHEN EVERYTHING THAT CAN BE SHAKEN IS SHAKEN, THE ANCHOR THAT HOLDS IS THE WISDOM OF THE CROSS. (Jason Upton, Key of David Ministries, from the CD 1200 ft below sea level)

If you want to see God's power at work, you must get out of the church and into the world. Watch the extravagant lengths which God will go to reveal Himself to people who don't know Him. Then you will learn how truly awesome our God is. (Author Unknown)
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From lambfarm at sover.net  Sun Mar  8 17:06:15 2009
From: lambfarm at sover.net (Betty Berlenbach)
Date: Sun, 8 Mar 2009 17:06:15 -0400
Subject: [Jacob-list] lambs
Message-ID: <002601c9a031$b93b4240$8fa772d8@USER5AFE0954BF>

Wow, all you folks reporting in lamb births makes me a bit impatient...for all the good it will do me. Not until the end of the month, which by then, I'll appreciate since it will be lots warmer and there probably won't still be two feet of snow on the ground...2-4 inches expected tomorrow.  We've had 82 inches so far this year.  Not a record, but I think sixth highest in recorded history...it's been real nice...But I really AM getting itchy for lambs...and kids this year for the first time from my Dwarf Nigerian Dairy goats...the getting of which, I think, probably PROVES beyond a shadow of a doubt that I'm crazy!
 Betty, in Vermont,who now has a blog, thanks to help from Walter and Linda.  See Betty's blog at http://sheepwoman.wordpress.com.
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From patchworkfibers at alltel.net  Mon Mar  9 18:04:40 2009
From: patchworkfibers at alltel.net (Linda)
Date: Mon, 9 Mar 2009 18:04:40 -0400
Subject: [Jacob-list] jsba pedigree search
Message-ID: <20093918440.762889@Linda-PC>

A heads up to those of you that link pedigrees on your website to jsba.org/search.html

When Robin uploads her updates, it changes the index number of the animals. Your pedigree links will change to a different sheep after updates. I've been catching up with web browsing today and noticed it on a couple of sites.

Linda

? 
http://www.patchworkfibers.com 
Registered Jacob Sheep, Handspun Yarn  
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From gotothewhip at aol.com  Mon Mar  9 18:27:29 2009
From: gotothewhip at aol.com (gotothewhip at aol.com)
Date: Mon, 09 Mar 2009 18:27:29 -0400
Subject: [Jacob-list] jsba pedigree search
In-Reply-To: <20093918440.762889@Linda-PC>
References: <20093918440.762889@Linda-PC>
Message-ID: <8CB6F1D5DA4CF0C-EF0-83E@WEBMAIL-MY10.sysops.aol.com>


 Thank you Linda.. I need to update my entire site anyhow!? So this will be a good motivator!? Do we know when Robin will have the changes completed?

Jennifer Tucker
Moose Mtn Ranch
Bennett, CO
www.MooseMtnRanch.com


 


 

-----Original Message-----
From: Linda <patchworkfibers at alltel.net>
To: Jacob-list <Jacob-list at jacobsheep.com>
Sent: Mon, 9 Mar 2009 4:04 pm
Subject: [Jacob-list] jsba pedigree search












A heads up to those of you that link pedigrees on your website to jsba.org/search.html


?


When Robin uploads her updates, it changes the index number of the animals. Your pedigree links will change to a different sheep after updates. I've been catching up with web browsing today and noticed it on a couple of sites.


?


Linda


?


??

http://www.patchworkfibers.com 

Registered Jacob Sheep, Handspun Yarn ?


 





_______________________________________________
Jacob-list mailing list, sponsored by Swallow Lane Farm & Fiberworks
Jacob-list at jacobsheep.com
http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/jacob-list



 

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From patchworkfibers at alltel.net  Mon Mar  9 18:39:02 2009
From: patchworkfibers at alltel.net (Linda)
Date: Mon, 9 Mar 2009 18:39:02 -0400
Subject: [Jacob-list] jsba pedigree search
In-Reply-To: <8CB6F1D5DA4CF0C-EF0-83E@WEBMAIL-MY10.sysops.aol.com>
Message-ID: <20093918392.152634@Linda-PC>

Robin updates the database throughout the year. Right next to step 3, it says when the last update was. If you're linking to an older version, your links will go to a different animal.

Does this mean we're going to see some pictures of your new lambs soon *smile*?

Linda

 Thank you Linda.. I need to update my entire site anyhow!  So this will be a good motivator!  Do we know when Robin will have the changes completed?

 Jennifer Tucker
 Moose Mtn Ranch
 Bennett, CO
 www.MooseMtnRanch.com

 

 
 -----Original Message-----
 From: Linda <patchworkfibers at alltel.net>
 To: Jacob-list <Jacob-list at jacobsheep.com>
 Sent: Mon, 9 Mar 2009 4:04 pm
 Subject: [Jacob-list] jsba pedigree search


A heads up to those of you that link pedigrees on your website to jsba.org/search.html

When Robin uploads her updates, it changes the index number of the animals. Your pedigree links will change to a different sheep after updates. I've been catching up with web browsing today and noticed it on a couple of sites.

Linda
   
http://www.patchworkfibers.com
 Registered Jacob Sheep, Handspun Yarn  

_______________________________________________
 Jacob-list mailing list, sponsored by Swallow Lane Farm & Fiberworks
Jacob-list at jacobsheep.com
http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/jacob-list


 
A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy steps!
? 
http://www.patchworkfibers.com 
Registered Jacob Sheep, Handspun Yarn  
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From fourhornfarm at verizon.net  Mon Mar  9 19:50:38 2009
From: fourhornfarm at verizon.net (fourhornfarm)
Date: Mon, 9 Mar 2009 19:50:38 -0400
Subject: [Jacob-list] jsba pedigree search
References: <20093918392.152634@Linda-PC>
Message-ID: <6DD1603428074FD1B7447BFE8064C09C@DollyLama>

Wouldn't it be great to have registration photos with the pedigrees! I know, give him a star and he wants the moon.

Carl
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Linda 
  To: gotothewhip at aol.com ; jacob-list at jacobsheep.com 
  Sent: Monday, March 09, 2009 6:39 PM
  Subject: Re: [Jacob-list] jsba pedigree search


  Robin updates the database throughout the year. Right next to step 3, it says when the last update was. If you're linking to an older version, your links will go to a different animal.

  Does this mean we're going to see some pictures of your new lambs soon *smile*?

  Linda

   Thank you Linda.. I need to update my entire site anyhow!  So this will be a good motivator!  Do we know when Robin will have the changes completed?

  Jennifer Tucker
  Moose Mtn Ranch
  Bennett, CO
  www.MooseMtnRanch.com






   -----Original Message-----
  From: Linda <patchworkfibers at alltel.net>
  To: Jacob-list <Jacob-list at jacobsheep.com>
  Sent: Mon, 9 Mar 2009 4:04 pm
  Subject: [Jacob-list] jsba pedigree search



  A heads up to those of you that link pedigrees on your website to jsba.org/search.html


  When Robin uploads her updates, it changes the index number of the animals. Your pedigree links will change to a different sheep after updates. I've been catching up with web browsing today and noticed it on a couple of sites.


  Linda
    
  http://www.patchworkfibers.com
  Registered Jacob Sheep, Handspun Yarn  


  _______________________________________________
  Jacob-list mailing list, sponsored by Swallow Lane Farm & Fiberworks
  Jacob-list at jacobsheep.com
  http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/jacob-list



   
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
   A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy steps!
    
  http://www.patchworkfibers.com 
  Registered Jacob Sheep, Handspun Yarn  



------------------------------------------------------------------------------


  _______________________________________________
  Jacob-list mailing list, sponsored by Swallow Lane Farm & Fiberworks
  Jacob-list at jacobsheep.com
  http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/jacob-list
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From patchworkfibers at alltel.net  Mon Mar  9 20:39:52 2009
From: patchworkfibers at alltel.net (Linda)
Date: Mon, 9 Mar 2009 20:39:52 -0400
Subject: [Jacob-list] jsba pedigree search
In-Reply-To: <6DD1603428074FD1B7447BFE8064C09C@DollyLama>
Message-ID: <200939203952.693727@Linda-PC>

Can you imagine how long it would take to scan over 10,000 pictures into the database? *smile* 

Linda

Wouldn't it be great to have registration photos with the pedigrees! I know, give him a star and he wants the moon.
 
Carl
----- Original Message -----
From:Linda
To:gotothewhip at aol.com ; jacob-list at jacobsheep.com
Sent: Monday, March 09, 2009 6:39 PM
Subject: Re: [Jacob-list] jsba pedigree search


Robin updates the database throughout the year. Right next to step 3, it says when the last update was. If you're linking to an older version, your links will go to a different animal.

Does this mean we're going to see some pictures of your new lambs soon *smile*?

Linda

 Thank you Linda.. I need to update my entire site anyhow!  So this will be a good motivator!  Do we know when Robin will have the changes completed?

Jennifer Tucker
Moose Mtn Ranch
Bennett, CO
www.MooseMtnRanch.com




 

 -----Original Message-----
From: Linda <patchworkfibers at alltel.net>
To: Jacob-list <Jacob-list at jacobsheep.com>
Sent: Mon, 9 Mar 2009 4:04 pm
Subject: [Jacob-list] jsba pedigree search



A heads up to those of you that link pedigrees on your website to jsba.org/search.html


When Robin uploads her updates, it changes the index number of the animals. Your pedigree links will change to a different sheep after updates. I've been catching up with web browsing today and noticed it on a couple of sites.


Linda
  
http://www.patchworkfibers.com
Registered Jacob Sheep, Handspun Yarn  


_______________________________________________
Jacob-list mailing list, sponsored by Swallow Lane Farm & Fiberworks
Jacob-list at jacobsheep.com
http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/jacob-list



  
A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy steps!  
http://www.patchworkfibers.com
Registered Jacob Sheep, Handspun Yarn  

 

_______________________________________________
Jacob-list mailing list, sponsored by Swallow Lane Farm & Fiberworks
Jacob-list at jacobsheep.com
http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/jacob-list

? 
http://www.patchworkfibers.com 
Registered Jacob Sheep, Handspun Yarn  
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From mudranch at gmail.com  Mon Mar  9 21:33:04 2009
From: mudranch at gmail.com (Joan Gross)
Date: Mon, 9 Mar 2009 18:33:04 -0700
Subject: [Jacob-list] Jacob-list Digest, Vol 56, Issue 11
In-Reply-To: <mailman.545.1236645597.85463.jacob-list@jacobsheep.com>
References: <mailman.545.1236645597.85463.jacob-list@jacobsheep.com>
Message-ID: <f1982a790903091833q35d352c9m6472fe0f97162b57@mail.gmail.com>

Thank you for the heads-up Linda.  I hadn't realized that would happen so I
guess I must check out my links!

Joan Gross
www.mudranchjacobs.com

On Mon, Mar 9, 2009 at 5:39 PM, <jacob-list-request at jacobsheep.com> wrote:

> Send Jacob-list mailing list submissions to
>        jacob-list at jacobsheep.com
>
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
>        http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/jacob-list
> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
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>
> You can reach the person managing the list at
>        jacob-list-owner at jacobsheep.com
>
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of Jacob-list digest..."
>
>
> Today's Topics:
>
>   1. jsba pedigree search (Linda)
>   2. Re: jsba pedigree search (gotothewhip at aol.com)
>   3. Re: jsba pedigree search (Linda)
>   4. Re: jsba pedigree search (fourhornfarm)
>   5. Re: jsba pedigree search (Linda)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Mon, 9 Mar 2009 18:04:40 -0400
> From: Linda <patchworkfibers at alltel.net>
> Subject: [Jacob-list] jsba pedigree search
> To: Jacob-list <Jacob-list at jacobsheep.com>
> Message-ID: <20093918440.762889 at Linda-PC>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> A heads up to those of you that link pedigrees on your website to
> jsba.org/search.html
>
> When Robin uploads her updates, it changes the index number of the animals.
> Your pedigree links will change to a different sheep after updates. I've
> been catching up with web browsing today and noticed it on a couple of
> sites.
>
> Linda
>
> ?
> http://www.patchworkfibers.com
> Registered Jacob Sheep, Handspun Yarn
> -------------- next part --------------
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> URL: <
> http://www.pairlist.net/pipermail/jacob-list/attachments/20090309/9f5843b3/attachment-0001.html
> >
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Mon, 09 Mar 2009 18:27:29 -0400
> From: gotothewhip at aol.com
> Subject: Re: [Jacob-list] jsba pedigree search
> To: patchworkfibers at alltel.net, jacob-list at jacobsheep.com
> Message-ID: <8CB6F1D5DA4CF0C-EF0-83E at WEBMAIL-MY10.sysops.aol.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
>
>  Thank you Linda.. I need to update my entire site anyhow!? So this will be
> a good motivator!? Do we know when Robin will have the changes completed?
>
> Jennifer Tucker
> Moose Mtn Ranch
> Bennett, CO
> www.MooseMtnRanch.com <http://www.moosemtnranch.com/>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Linda <patchworkfibers at alltel.net>
> To: Jacob-list <Jacob-list at jacobsheep.com>
> Sent: Mon, 9 Mar 2009 4:04 pm
> Subject: [Jacob-list] jsba pedigree search
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> A heads up to those of you that link pedigrees on your website to
> jsba.org/search.html
>
>
> ?
>
>
> When Robin uploads her updates, it changes the index number of the animals.
> Your pedigree links will change to a different sheep after updates. I've
> been catching up with web browsing today and noticed it on a couple of
> sites.
>
>
> ?
>
>
> Linda
>
>
> ?
>
>
> ??
>
> http://www.patchworkfibers.com
>
> Registered Jacob Sheep, Handspun Yarn ?
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Jacob-list mailing list, sponsored by Swallow Lane Farm & Fiberworks
> Jacob-list at jacobsheep.com
> http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/jacob-list
>
>
>
>
>
> -------------- next part --------------
> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> URL: <
> http://www.pairlist.net/pipermail/jacob-list/attachments/20090309/aef38044/attachment-0001.htm
> >
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Mon, 9 Mar 2009 18:39:02 -0400
> From: Linda <patchworkfibers at alltel.net>
> Subject: Re: [Jacob-list] jsba pedigree search
> To: <gotothewhip at aol.com>,           <jacob-list at jacobsheep.com>
> Message-ID: <20093918392.152634 at Linda-PC>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> Robin updates the database throughout the year. Right next to step 3, it
> says when the last update was. If you're linking to an older version, your
> links will go to a different animal.
>
> Does this mean we're going to see some pictures of your new lambs soon
> *smile*?
>
> Linda
>
>  Thank you Linda.. I need to update my entire site anyhow!  So this will be
> a good motivator!  Do we know when Robin will have the changes completed?
>
>  Jennifer Tucker
>  Moose Mtn Ranch
>  Bennett, CO
>  www.MooseMtnRanch.com <http://www.moosemtnranch.com/>
>
>
>
>
>  -----Original Message-----
>  From: Linda <patchworkfibers at alltel.net>
>  To: Jacob-list <Jacob-list at jacobsheep.com>
>  Sent: Mon, 9 Mar 2009 4:04 pm
>  Subject: [Jacob-list] jsba pedigree search
>
>
> A heads up to those of you that link pedigrees on your website to
> jsba.org/search.html
>
> When Robin uploads her updates, it changes the index number of the animals.
> Your pedigree links will change to a different sheep after updates. I've
> been catching up with web browsing today and noticed it on a couple of
> sites.
>
> Linda
>
> http://www.patchworkfibers.com
>  Registered Jacob Sheep, Handspun Yarn
>
> _______________________________________________
>  Jacob-list mailing list, sponsored by Swallow Lane Farm & Fiberworks
> Jacob-list at jacobsheep.com
> http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/jacob-list
>
>
>  A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy steps!
>
> http://www.patchworkfibers.com
> Registered Jacob Sheep, Handspun Yarn
> -------------- next part --------------
> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> URL: <
> http://www.pairlist.net/pipermail/jacob-list/attachments/20090309/167f4d9d/attachment-0001.html
> >
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Mon, 9 Mar 2009 19:50:38 -0400
> From: "fourhornfarm" <fourhornfarm at verizon.net>
> Subject: Re: [Jacob-list] jsba pedigree search
> To: "Linda" <patchworkfibers at alltel.net>, <gotothewhip at aol.com>,
>        <jacob-list at jacobsheep.com>
> Message-ID: <6DD1603428074FD1B7447BFE8064C09C at DollyLama>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> Wouldn't it be great to have registration photos with the pedigrees! I
> know, give him a star and he wants the moon.
>
> Carl
>  ----- Original Message -----
>  From: Linda
>  To: gotothewhip at aol.com ; jacob-list at jacobsheep.com
>  Sent: Monday, March 09, 2009 6:39 PM
>  Subject: Re: [Jacob-list] jsba pedigree search
>
>
>  Robin updates the database throughout the year. Right next to step 3, it
> says when the last update was. If you're linking to an older version, your
> links will go to a different animal.
>
>  Does this mean we're going to see some pictures of your new lambs soon
> *smile*?
>
>  Linda
>
>   Thank you Linda.. I need to update my entire site anyhow!  So this will
> be a good motivator!  Do we know when Robin will have the changes completed?
>
>  Jennifer Tucker
>  Moose Mtn Ranch
>  Bennett, CO
>  www.MooseMtnRanch.com <http://www.moosemtnranch.com/>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>   -----Original Message-----
>  From: Linda <patchworkfibers at alltel.net>
>  To: Jacob-list <Jacob-list at jacobsheep.com>
>  Sent: Mon, 9 Mar 2009 4:04 pm
>  Subject: [Jacob-list] jsba pedigree search
>
>
>
>  A heads up to those of you that link pedigrees on your website to
> jsba.org/search.html
>
>
>  When Robin uploads her updates, it changes the index number of the
> animals. Your pedigree links will change to a different sheep after updates.
> I've been catching up with web browsing today and noticed it on a couple of
> sites.
>
>
>  Linda
>
>  http://www.patchworkfibers.com
>  Registered Jacob Sheep, Handspun Yarn
>
>
>  _______________________________________________
>  Jacob-list mailing list, sponsored by Swallow Lane Farm & Fiberworks
>  Jacob-list at jacobsheep.com
>  http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/jacob-list
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>   A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy steps!
>
>  http://www.patchworkfibers.com
>  Registered Jacob Sheep, Handspun Yarn
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>  _______________________________________________
>  Jacob-list mailing list, sponsored by Swallow Lane Farm & Fiberworks
>  Jacob-list at jacobsheep.com
>  http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/jacob-list
> -------------- next part --------------
> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> URL: <
> http://www.pairlist.net/pipermail/jacob-list/attachments/20090309/18f0103d/attachment-0001.htm
> >
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Mon, 9 Mar 2009 20:39:52 -0400
> From: Linda <patchworkfibers at alltel.net>
> Subject: Re: [Jacob-list] jsba pedigree search
> To: fourhornfarm <fourhornfarm at verizon.net>, <gotothewhip at aol.com>,
>        <jacob-list at jacobsheep.com>
> Message-ID: <200939203952.693727 at Linda-PC>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> Can you imagine how long it would take to scan over 10,000 pictures into
> the database? *smile*
>
> Linda
>
> Wouldn't it be great to have registration photos with the pedigrees! I
> know, give him a star and he wants the moon.
>
> Carl
> ----- Original Message -----
> From:Linda
> To:gotothewhip at aol.com <To%3Agotothewhip at aol.com> ;
> jacob-list at jacobsheep.com
> Sent: Monday, March 09, 2009 6:39 PM
> Subject: Re: [Jacob-list] jsba pedigree search
>
>
> Robin updates the database throughout the year. Right next to step 3, it
> says when the last update was. If you're linking to an older version, your
> links will go to a different animal.
>
> Does this mean we're going to see some pictures of your new lambs soon
> *smile*?
>
> Linda
>
>  Thank you Linda.. I need to update my entire site anyhow!  So this will be
> a good motivator!  Do we know when Robin will have the changes completed?
>
> Jennifer Tucker
> Moose Mtn Ranch
> Bennett, CO
> www.MooseMtnRanch.com <http://www.moosemtnranch.com/>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>  -----Original Message-----
> From: Linda <patchworkfibers at alltel.net>
> To: Jacob-list <Jacob-list at jacobsheep.com>
> Sent: Mon, 9 Mar 2009 4:04 pm
> Subject: [Jacob-list] jsba pedigree search
>
>
>
> A heads up to those of you that link pedigrees on your website to
> jsba.org/search.html
>
>
> When Robin uploads her updates, it changes the index number of the animals.
> Your pedigree links will change to a different sheep after updates. I've
> been catching up with web browsing today and noticed it on a couple of
> sites.
>
>
> Linda
>
> http://www.patchworkfibers.com
> Registered Jacob Sheep, Handspun Yarn
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Jacob-list mailing list, sponsored by Swallow Lane Farm & Fiberworks
> Jacob-list at jacobsheep.com
> http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/jacob-list
>
>
>
>   A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy steps!
> http://www.patchworkfibers.com
> Registered Jacob Sheep, Handspun Yarn
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Jacob-list mailing list, sponsored by Swallow Lane Farm & Fiberworks
> Jacob-list at jacobsheep.com
> http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/jacob-list
>
>
> http://www.patchworkfibers.com
> Registered Jacob Sheep, Handspun Yarn
> -------------- next part --------------
> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> URL: <
> http://www.pairlist.net/pipermail/jacob-list/attachments/20090309/8225b1bc/attachment.html
> >
>
> ------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> Jacob-list mailing list
> Jacob-list at jacobsheep.com
> http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/jacob-list
>
>
> End of Jacob-list Digest, Vol 56, Issue 11
> ******************************************
>



-- 
www.mudranchjacobs.com

www.mudranch.com


<``\__~   <``\__~   <``\__~
...// \\.........// \\.........// \\....
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From messen at socket.net  Mon Mar  9 21:46:18 2009
From: messen at socket.net (Mark Essen)
Date: Mon, 09 Mar 2009 20:46:18 -0500
Subject: [Jacob-list] jsba pedigree search
In-Reply-To: <200939203952.693727@Linda-PC>
References: <200939203952.693727@Linda-PC>
Message-ID: <49B5C66A.5000702@socket.net>

Ah, grasshopper, the journey would start with a single scan.
Mark
Sorry for the reference that just proves how old I am.

Linda wrote:
> *Can you imagine how long it would take to scan over 10,000 pictures 
> into the database? *smile* *
>  
> *Linda*


From rlynde at onramp113.org  Tue Mar 10 01:55:42 2009
From: rlynde at onramp113.org (Robin Lynde)
Date: Mon, 9 Mar 2009 22:55:42 -0700
Subject: [Jacob-list] jsba pedigree search
References: <20093918440.762889@Linda-PC>
	<8CB6F1D5DA4CF0C-EF0-83E@WEBMAIL-MY10.sysops.aol.com>
Message-ID: <650368FC2CE549D08B118BC3D0ACF5C2@your4dacd0ea75>


I update periodically, usually after I do a big batch of registrations. I have a pile here right now. I broke my arm in January and am still typing (and lambing, etc) one-handed. I am starting to get the registrations out now. I didn't realize that people would link to the site. Its always going to be changing so you really can't count on using it that way. On my website  I've just put a link to the site in general and explained how to look up sheep.  

By the way, I have a brand new website. There is a glitch right now so I haven't been able to add more lambs--hopefully tomorrow. I'm up to 55 lambs in 2 weeks! Another ewe is lambing now.

Robin Lynde
Meridian Jacobs
Vacaville, CA 
www.meridianjacobs.com 
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: gotothewhip at aol.com 
  To: patchworkfibers at alltel.net ; jacob-list at jacobsheep.com 
  Sent: Monday, March 09, 2009 3:27 PM
  Subject: Re: [Jacob-list] jsba pedigree search


  Thank you Linda.. I need to update my entire site anyhow!  So this will be a good motivator!  Do we know when Robin will have the changes completed?

  Jennifer Tucker
  Moose Mtn Ranch
  Bennett, CO
  www.MooseMtnRanch.com





  -----Original Message-----
  From: Linda <patchworkfibers at alltel.net>
  To: Jacob-list <Jacob-list at jacobsheep.com>
  Sent: Mon, 9 Mar 2009 4:04 pm
  Subject: [Jacob-list] jsba pedigree search


  A heads up to those of you that link pedigrees on your website to jsba.org/search.html

  When Robin uploads her updates, it changes the index number of the animals. Your pedigree links will change to a different sheep after updates. I've been catching up with web browsing today and noticed it on a couple of sites.

  Linda

    
  http://www.patchworkfibers.com 
  Registered Jacob Sheep, Handspun Yarn  

_______________________________________________
Jacob-list mailing list, sponsored by Swallow Lane Farm & Fiberworks
Jacob-list at jacobsheep.com
http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/jacob-list


------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy steps! 


------------------------------------------------------------------------------


  _______________________________________________
  Jacob-list mailing list, sponsored by Swallow Lane Farm & Fiberworks
  Jacob-list at jacobsheep.com
  http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/jacob-list
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From rlynde at onramp113.org  Tue Mar 10 02:11:51 2009
From: rlynde at onramp113.org (Robin Lynde)
Date: Mon, 9 Mar 2009 23:11:51 -0700
Subject: [Jacob-list] jsba pedigree search
References: <200939203952.693727@Linda-PC> <49B5C66A.5000702@socket.net>
Message-ID: <903DBABD99B649E2A09AC8E418D4AFC4@your4dacd0ea75>

Actually there was a plan to scan all the old papers with the idea that we 
could eventually get rid of some paper (over four 4-drawer filing cabinets). 
So I have started that but its pretty slow going. Most of the time I have 
other things to do! Maybe I should set a goal of 10/day.
Robin Lynde
Meridian Jacobs
Vacaville, CA
www.meridianjacobs.com
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Mark Essen" <messen at socket.net>
To: <jacob-list at jacobsheep.com>
Sent: Monday, March 09, 2009 6:46 PM
Subject: Re: [Jacob-list] jsba pedigree search


> Ah, grasshopper, the journey would start with a single scan.
> Mark
> Sorry for the reference that just proves how old I am.
>
> Linda wrote:
>> *Can you imagine how long it would take to scan over 10,000 pictures into 
>> the database? *smile* *
>>  *Linda*
>
> _______________________________________________
> Jacob-list mailing list, sponsored by Swallow Lane Farm & Fiberworks
> Jacob-list at jacobsheep.com
> http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/jacob-list 


From lasell at lasell.org  Tue Mar 10 07:00:01 2009
From: lasell at lasell.org (Lasell J. Bartlett)
Date: Tue, 10 Mar 2009 07:00:01 -0400
Subject: [Jacob-list] jsba pedigree search
In-Reply-To: <903DBABD99B649E2A09AC8E418D4AFC4@your4dacd0ea75>
References: <200939203952.693727@Linda-PC> <49B5C66A.5000702@socket.net>
	<903DBABD99B649E2A09AC8E418D4AFC4@your4dacd0ea75>
Message-ID: <F8C2CF2C-19EA-48F4-85E4-56014AD5B34D@lasell.org>


On Mar 10, 2009, at 2:11 AM, Robin Lynde wrote:

> Actually there was a plan to scan all the old papers with the idea  
> that we could eventually get rid of some paper (over four 4-drawer  
> filing cabinets). So I have started that but its pretty slow going.  
> Most of the time I have other things to do! Maybe I should set a  
> goal of 10/day.


Or maybe you could enlist some volunteer help!

Good luck. We're starting to lamb here. One has arrived. Another 12  
ewes to go if all settled.

Lasell J Bartlett MSW
in snow-covered Vermont

"It's our nature to get along."



From gotothewhip at aol.com  Tue Mar 10 09:45:48 2009
From: gotothewhip at aol.com (gotothewhip at aol.com)
Date: Tue, 10 Mar 2009 09:45:48 -0400
Subject: [Jacob-list] jsba pedigree search
In-Reply-To: <650368FC2CE549D08B118BC3D0ACF5C2@your4dacd0ea75>
References: <20093918440.762889@Linda-PC>
	<8CB6F1D5DA4CF0C-EF0-83E@WEBMAIL-MY10.sysops.aol.com>
	<650368FC2CE549D08B118BC3D0ACF5C2@your4dacd0ea75>
Message-ID: <8CB6F9DA741AA57-11B0-9B@WEBMAIL-DY07.sysops.aol.com>


 I guess all those I sent in are a good bit of the big batch of applications! LOL!

On the website.. i had not checked the links... It appears all of my boys have had sex changes! LOL? as they are now young girls! Smile!

Jennifer Tucker Moose mtn Ranch
Bennett, CO 
www.MooseMtnRanch.com


 


 

-----Original Message-----
From: Robin Lynde <rlynde at onramp113.org>
To: patchworkfibers at alltel.net; jacob-list at jacobsheep.com; gotothewhip at aol.com
Sent: Mon, 9 Mar 2009 11:55 pm
Subject: Re: [Jacob-list] jsba pedigree search














?


I update periodically, usually after I do a big 
batch of registrations. I have a pile here right now. I broke my arm in January 
and am still typing (and lambing, etc) one-handed. I am starting to get the 
registrations out now. I didn't realize that people would link to the site. Its 
always going to be changing so you really can't count on using it that way. On 
my website ?I've just put a link to the site in general and explained how 
to look up sheep.? 


?


By the way, I have a brand new website. There is a 
glitch right now so I haven't been able to add more lambs--hopefully tomorrow. 
I'm up to 55 lambs in 2 weeks! Another ewe is lambing now.


?


Robin Lynde
Meridian Jacobs
Vacaville, CA 
www.meridianjacobs.com 



  
----- Original Message ----- 

  
From: 
  gotothewhip at aol.com 

  
To: patchworkfibers at alltel.net ; jacob-list at jacobsheep.com 

  
Sent: Monday, March 09, 2009 3:27 
PM

  
Subject: Re: [Jacob-list] jsba pedigree 
  search

  



  
Thank you Linda.. I need to 
  update my entire site anyhow!? So this will be a good motivator!? Do 
  we know when Robin will have the changes completed?

Jennifer 
  Tucker
Moose Mtn Ranch
Bennett, CO
www.MooseMtnRanch.com


  



  


-----Original Message-----
From: Linda <patchworkfibers at alltel.net>
To: 
  Jacob-list <Jacob-list at jacobsheep.com>
Sent: 
  Mon, 9 Mar 2009 4:04 pm
Subject: [Jacob-list] jsba pedigree search


  

  

  
A heads up to those 
  of you that link pedigrees on your website to 
jsba.org/search.html

  
?

  
When Robin uploads 
  her updates, it changes the index number of the animals. Your pedigree links 
  will change to a different sheep after updates. I've been catching up with web 
  browsing today and noticed it on a couple of sites.

  
?

  
Linda

  
?
??
http://www.patchworkfibers.com 
Registered Jacob Sheep, 
  Handspun Yarn ?


  

_______________________________________________

Jacob-list mailing list, sponsored by Swallow Lane Farm & Fiberworks

Jacob-list at jacobsheep.com

http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/jacob-list




  


  


  A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See 
  yours in just 2 easy steps! 

  

  




  

_______________________________________________
Jacob-list mailing 
  list, sponsored by Swallow Lane Farm & 
  Fiberworks
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http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/jacob-list


 

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From patchworkfibers at alltel.net  Tue Mar 10 11:00:55 2009
From: patchworkfibers at alltel.net (Linda)
Date: Tue, 10 Mar 2009 11:00:55 -0400
Subject: [Jacob-list] jsba pedigree search
In-Reply-To: <8CB6F9DA741AA57-11B0-9B@WEBMAIL-DY07.sysops.aol.com>
Message-ID: <200931011055.618392@Linda-PC>

Please tell me how to change boys into young girls! With 11 lambs so far, of which 9 are rams, I'll willing to try anything! *smile*

Linda


 I guess all those I sent in are a good bit of the big batch of applications! LOL!

 On the website.. i had not checked the links... It appears all of my boys have had sex changes! LOL  as they are now young girls! Smile!

 Jennifer Tucker Moose mtn Ranch
 Bennett, CO 
 www.MooseMtnRanch.com

 

 
 
? 
http://www.patchworkfibers.com 
Registered Jacob Sheep, Handspun Yarn  
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From ACAMDA at aol.com  Tue Mar 10 12:47:36 2009
From: ACAMDA at aol.com (ACAMDA at aol.com)
Date: Tue, 10 Mar 2009 12:47:36 EDT
Subject: [Jacob-list] hybrid lamb
Message-ID: <d06.4e280dce.36e7f3a8@aol.com>

We're having an unusual lambing this year - very sporatic, and all  singles!  
I keep thinking that one of these years I'll have a nice, calm  lambing 
season - but I'm not holding my breath.
 
We have a first time mother who does not want her lamb.  The lamb  (Delia 
Louise according to my daughter)  was born last Thursday.  We  are bottle feeding 
the little ewe (a single), while keeping her in a pen with  her Mom.  We kept 
them in a "jug" type shelter for a day, but the Mom kept  butting the lamb 
and wouldn't let her nurse.  In fact, we never saw her  nurse.  My daughter 
found the lamb in a corner of the pasture, and Mom  grazing WAY down the hill. So 
now they're in a larger pen but still separated  from the flock.  The lamb 
stays close to the Mom, following her around, and  we feed the lamb four times a 
day.  We have bottle fed before,  but with a ewe that had died, so there was 
no contact with the Mom.  So  this one is a hybrid lamb - bottles and Mom both.
 
At what point would it be okay to let Mom and lamb out with the rest of the  
flock?  I'm afraid that once they're in the flock it will be very hard to  
catch the little one to bottle feed her, so I need her to be mostly on grass  
before I try it.  I've read that you can wean lambs after 25 days or so,  but I'd 
like to get your experience.  We usually leave Mom and lamb  together until 
Mom gets really tired of nursing and does the weaning  herself.  
 
Should I try to supplement with a creep feed, or something else to  encourage 
the little one to eat solids?  They have lots of fresh hay  available, plus a 
few green blades of grass are courageously sprouting up.  
 
A Tractor Supply just opened down the road from us, and I could use an  
excuse to go explore!
 
Thanks!
 
Kathey
 
 
**************Need a job? Find employment help in your area. 
(http://yellowpages.aol.com/search?query=employment_agencies&ncid=emlcntusyelp00000005)
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From Timkoenig5 at aol.com  Tue Mar 10 13:59:46 2009
From: Timkoenig5 at aol.com (Timkoenig5 at aol.com)
Date: Tue, 10 Mar 2009 13:59:46 EDT
Subject: [Jacob-list] Premies
Message-ID: <ca8.437d9916.36e80492@aol.com>

OK, I've been raising sheep for about 15 years, Jacobs for 9. I've never  had 
a lambing season like this one. So far, 18 ewes have lambed. Most twinned.  
Out of that I have 9 live lambs...and 18 dead. Of the 18, 2 died of injuries,  
two had membrane over the face...All the rest have been premies. Most were 
dead  when I found them, a few lasted 24 hours or so. Even among the live lambs  
several were born with eyes still sealed and very tiny. All the ewes seem  
healthy and hardy. All the same food and water, shelter, etc.
This has been a very long cold winter but I've had worse with all healthy  
babies before. Does anyone have any ideas?
 
Tim Koenig
Applegarth Farm
**************A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy 
steps! 
(http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1219671244x1201345076/aol?redir=http:%2F%2Fwww.freecreditreport.com%2Fpm%2Fdefault.aspx%3Fsc%3D668072%26hmpgID
%3D62%26bcd%3DfebemailfooterNO62)
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From Jacobflock at aol.com  Tue Mar 10 15:48:39 2009
From: Jacobflock at aol.com (Jacobflock at aol.com)
Date: Tue, 10 Mar 2009 15:48:39 EDT
Subject: [Jacob-list] Premies
Message-ID: <c19.51446fd2.36e81e17@aol.com>

Your experience is not typical and, not seeing ewe or lamb(s), I would  
strongly suggest that you chec k with your vet.  This has a sound of  "abortion 
storm" which may be caused by chlamydia or campylobacter.  You  should have it 
professionally reviewed and tested since these bacterial abortion  storms cab be 
distaster for the flock during this and subsequesnt breeding  seasons.  Good 
Luck.
 
Fred Horak
St. Jude's Farm
1165 E. Lucas Road
Lucas,  TX 75002
 
 
In a message dated 3/10/2009 1:00:20 P.M. Central Daylight Time,  
Timkoenig5 at aol.com writes:

OK, I've been raising sheep for about 15 years, Jacobs for 9. I've never  had 
a lambing season like this one. So far, 18 ewes have lambed. Most twinned.  
Out of that I have 9 live lambs...and 18 dead. Of the 18, 2 died of injuries,  
two had membrane over the face...All the rest have been premies. Most were  
dead when I found them, a few lasted 24 hours or so. Even among the live lambs  
several were born with eyes still sealed and very tiny. All the ewes seem  
healthy and hardy. All the same food and water, shelter, etc.
This has been a very long cold winter but I've had worse with all healthy  
babies before. Does anyone have any ideas?
 
Tim Koenig
Applegarth Farm

 
____________________________________
A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. _See  yours in just 2 easy  steps!_ 
(http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1219671244x1201345076/aol?redir=http://www
.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072&hmpgID=62&bcd=febemailfooterNO
62) 


_______________________________________________
Jacob-list  mailing list, sponsored by Swallow Lane Farm &  Fiberworks
Jacob-list at jacobsheep.com
http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/jacob-list


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From pegvanbeek at msn.com  Tue Mar 10 15:57:37 2009
From: pegvanbeek at msn.com (Marguerite Van Beek)
Date: Tue, 10 Mar 2009 15:57:37 -0400
Subject: [Jacob-list] Premies
In-Reply-To: <c19.51446fd2.36e81e17@aol.com>
References: <c19.51446fd2.36e81e17@aol.com>
Message-ID: <BAY137-DS1FF6300367237C7577831C7A10@phx.gbl>

Tim

I agree with Fred.  this happened to me.  I feed my remaining animals with aueromycin crumbles and the coming breeding season I vaccinated with chlamydia and camylobacter vaccine I got at pipestone vet.  Never had a problem since.
We strongly suspected the hay we got when we found out it was tainted with cat feces.  The farmer had 100's of cats living in his barn.  Or maybe it was something else. We don't know.  It was the third year we had Jacobs.  I just figured it was worth
the cost. 

Peggy 

  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Jacobflock at aol.com<mailto:Jacobflock at aol.com> 
  To: Timkoenig5 at aol.com<mailto:Timkoenig5 at aol.com> ; jacob-list at jacobsheep.com<mailto:jacob-list at jacobsheep.com> 
  Sent: Tuesday, March 10, 2009 3:48 PM
  Subject: Re: [Jacob-list] Premies


  Your experience is not typical and, not seeing ewe or lamb(s), I would strongly suggest that you chec k with your vet.  This has a sound of "abortion storm" which may be caused by chlamydia or campylobacter.  You should have it professionally reviewed and tested since these bacterial abortion storms cab be distaster for the flock during this and subsequesnt breeding seasons.  Good Luck.

  Fred Horak
  St. Jude's Farm
  1165 E. Lucas Road
  Lucas,  TX 75002

  In a message dated 3/10/2009 1:00:20 P.M. Central Daylight Time, Timkoenig5 at aol.com writes:
    OK, I've been raising sheep for about 15 years, Jacobs for 9. I've never had a lambing season like this one. So far, 18 ewes have lambed. Most twinned. Out of that I have 9 live lambs...and 18 dead. Of the 18, 2 died of injuries, two had membrane over the face...All the rest have been premies. Most were dead when I found them, a few lasted 24 hours or so. Even among the live lambs several were born with eyes still sealed and very tiny. All the ewes seem healthy and hardy. All the same food and water, shelter, etc.
    This has been a very long cold winter but I've had worse with all healthy babies before. Does anyone have any ideas?

    Tim Koenig
    Applegarth Farm


----------------------------------------------------------------------------
    A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy steps!<http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1219671244x1201345076/aol?redir=http:%2F%2Fwww.freecreditreport.com%2Fpm%2Fdefault.aspx%3Fsc%3D668072%26hmpgID%3D62%26bcd%3DfebemailfooterNO62>


    _______________________________________________
    Jacob-list mailing list, sponsored by Swallow Lane Farm & Fiberworks
    Jacob-list at jacobsheep.com
    http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/jacob-list



------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Need a job? Find employment help in your area<http://yellowpages.aol.com/search?query=employment_agencies&ncid=emlcntusyelp00000005>.
  _______________________________________________
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  http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/jacob-list
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From pegvanbeek at msn.com  Tue Mar 10 15:58:40 2009
From: pegvanbeek at msn.com (Marguerite Van Beek)
Date: Tue, 10 Mar 2009 15:58:40 -0400
Subject: [Jacob-list] Premies
In-Reply-To: <c19.51446fd2.36e81e17@aol.com>
References: <c19.51446fd2.36e81e17@aol.com>
Message-ID: <BAY137-DS1830A820F7A6BB574B610C7A10@phx.gbl>

Tim

I also cleaned the barn from top to bottom after lambing season.  It is hard when you have a dirt floor but something is better than nothing.

Peggy
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Jacobflock at aol.com<mailto:Jacobflock at aol.com> 
  To: Timkoenig5 at aol.com<mailto:Timkoenig5 at aol.com> ; jacob-list at jacobsheep.com<mailto:jacob-list at jacobsheep.com> 
  Sent: Tuesday, March 10, 2009 3:48 PM
  Subject: Re: [Jacob-list] Premies


  Your experience is not typical and, not seeing ewe or lamb(s), I would strongly suggest that you chec k with your vet.  This has a sound of "abortion storm" which may be caused by chlamydia or campylobacter.  You should have it professionally reviewed and tested since these bacterial abortion storms cab be distaster for the flock during this and subsequesnt breeding seasons.  Good Luck.

  Fred Horak
  St. Jude's Farm
  1165 E. Lucas Road
  Lucas,  TX 75002

  In a message dated 3/10/2009 1:00:20 P.M. Central Daylight Time, Timkoenig5 at aol.com writes:
    OK, I've been raising sheep for about 15 years, Jacobs for 9. I've never had a lambing season like this one. So far, 18 ewes have lambed. Most twinned. Out of that I have 9 live lambs...and 18 dead. Of the 18, 2 died of injuries, two had membrane over the face...All the rest have been premies. Most were dead when I found them, a few lasted 24 hours or so. Even among the live lambs several were born with eyes still sealed and very tiny. All the ewes seem healthy and hardy. All the same food and water, shelter, etc.
    This has been a very long cold winter but I've had worse with all healthy babies before. Does anyone have any ideas?

    Tim Koenig
    Applegarth Farm


----------------------------------------------------------------------------
    A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy steps!<http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1219671244x1201345076/aol?redir=http:%2F%2Fwww.freecreditreport.com%2Fpm%2Fdefault.aspx%3Fsc%3D668072%26hmpgID%3D62%26bcd%3DfebemailfooterNO62>


    _______________________________________________
    Jacob-list mailing list, sponsored by Swallow Lane Farm & Fiberworks
    Jacob-list at jacobsheep.com
    http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/jacob-list



------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Need a job? Find employment help in your area<http://yellowpages.aol.com/search?query=employment_agencies&ncid=emlcntusyelp00000005>.
  _______________________________________________
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  Jacob-list at jacobsheep.com
  http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/jacob-list
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From hobbyknobfarm at main.nc.us  Tue Mar 10 16:26:07 2009
From: hobbyknobfarm at main.nc.us (hobbyknobfarm)
Date: Tue, 10 Mar 2009 16:26:07 -0400
Subject: [Jacob-list] bottle lamb
Message-ID: <5C0CE92F291F481888AD844A93FE9F15@daron1>

Kathy,
This is just what I did with my ewe that would not feed her lambs-and it was a Jacob and she did it 2 years in a row so needless to say she was culled. However, her offspring was a perfect mother, not sure what her problem was. I let mom and lambs out after about a week of holding mom in the pen and letting them nurse along with the bottle feedings. I caught it right away and wanted to get the colostrum in the babies. They thrived by the way! Anyway, I didn't have any trouble getting them to come to me in the pasture as they were pretty sure of where there food source was coming from by the time they went out. After 6 feedings a day for a week from a bottle, they knew. I by the way fed mine til they were at least 10-12 weeks. They were eating some hay and grass (if it was there) and grain by then. Since I lamb late I am not weaning til may or June anyway and they usually have grass. I was always down to only 2 feedings by them anyway. Good luck
Elizabeth
www.hobbyknobfarm.com
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From carlfosbrink at yahoo.com  Tue Mar 10 18:23:42 2009
From: carlfosbrink at yahoo.com (CARL FOSBRINK)
Date: Tue, 10 Mar 2009 15:23:42 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Jacob-list] Premies
References: <c19.51446fd2.36e81e17@aol.com>
	<BAY137-DS1FF6300367237C7577831C7A10@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <66533.32022.qm@web55507.mail.re4.yahoo.com>

Just a?suggestion: when cleaning out those barns down to the dirt spread barn lime on the floor and cover it with some straw. Barn lime is very inexpensive and well worth it.
?
Carl

?
Carl and Judy Fosbrink
www.4hornfarm.com




________________________________
From: Marguerite Van Beek <pegvanbeek at msn.com>
To: Timkoenig5 at aol.com; jacob-list at jacobsheep.com; Jacobflock at aol.com
Sent: Tuesday, March 10, 2009 3:57:37 PM
Subject: Re: [Jacob-list] Premies


Tim

I agree with Fred.? this happened to me.? I feed my remaining animals with aueromycin crumbles and the coming breeding season I vaccinated with chlamydia and camylobacter vaccine I got at pipestone vet.? Never had a problem since.
We strongly suspected the hay we got when we found out it was tainted with cat feces.? The farmer had 100's of cats living in his barn.? Or maybe it was something else. We don't know.? It was the third year we had Jacobs.? I just figured it was worth
the cost. 

Peggy 

----- Original Message ----- 
From: Jacobflock at aol.com 
To: Timkoenig5 at aol.com ; jacob-list at jacobsheep.com 
Sent: Tuesday, March 10, 2009 3:48 PM
Subject: Re: [Jacob-list] Premies
Your experience is not typical and, not seeing ewe or lamb(s), I would strongly suggest that you chec k with your vet.? This has a sound of "abortion storm" which may be caused by chlamydia or campylobacter.? You should have it professionally reviewed and tested since these bacterial abortion storms?cab be distaster for the flock during this and subsequesnt breeding seasons.? Good Luck.

Fred Horak
St. Jude's Farm
1165 E. Lucas Road
Lucas,? TX 75002

In a message dated 3/10/2009 1:00:20 P.M. Central Daylight Time, Timkoenig5 at aol.com writes:
OK, I've been raising sheep for about 15 years, Jacobs for 9. I've never had a lambing season like this one. So far, 18 ewes have lambed. Most twinned. Out of that I have 9 live lambs...and 18 dead. Of the 18, 2 died of injuries, two had membrane over the face...All the rest have been premies. Most were dead when I found them, a few lasted 24 hours or so. Even among the live lambs several were born with eyes still sealed and very tiny. All the ewes seem healthy and hardy. All the same food and water, shelter, etc.
This has been a very long cold winter but I've had worse with all healthy babies before. Does anyone have any ideas?

Tim Koenig
Applegarth Farm


________________________________
A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy steps!

_______________________________________________
Jacob-list mailing list, sponsored by Swallow Lane Farm & Fiberworks
Jacob-list at jacobsheep.com
http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/jacob-list



________________________________
Need a job? Find employment help in your area._______________________________________________
Jacob-list mailing list, sponsored by Swallow Lane Farm & Fiberworks
Jacob-list at jacobsheep.com
http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/jacob-list
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From ACAMDA at aol.com  Tue Mar 10 19:08:12 2009
From: ACAMDA at aol.com (ACAMDA at aol.com)
Date: Tue, 10 Mar 2009 19:08:12 EDT
Subject: [Jacob-list] Premies
Message-ID: <d2b.464f88bf.36e84cdc@aol.com>

What does lime do?
 
Kathey
**************Need a job? Find employment help in your area. 
(http://yellowpages.aol.com/search?query=employment_agencies&ncid=emlcntusyelp00000005)
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From carlfosbrink at yahoo.com  Tue Mar 10 20:07:15 2009
From: carlfosbrink at yahoo.com (CARL FOSBRINK)
Date: Tue, 10 Mar 2009 17:07:15 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Jacob-list] Premies
References: <d2b.464f88bf.36e84cdc@aol.com>
Message-ID: <339707.56950.qm@web55508.mail.re4.yahoo.com>

There are two kinds of lime:
?
1.? Barn lime or sometimes called ag lime can be bought in 50 lb. bags at Rural King, Orschelons, Tractor Supply, etc. for about $2.50 or $3.00 a bag. It is a light gray powder and is spread on the barn floor after cleaning to provide an antibacterial quality, dry up the moisture and reduce flies. 
?
2. Hydrated lime is pure white in color and is caustic so do not use this kind.

Carl?
Carl and Judy Fosbrink
www.4hornfarm.com




________________________________
From: "ACAMDA at aol.com" <ACAMDA at aol.com>
To: carlfosbrink at yahoo.com; pegvanbeek at msn.com; Timkoenig5 at aol.com; jacob-list at jacobsheep.com; Jacobflock at aol.com
Sent: Tuesday, March 10, 2009 7:08:12 PM
Subject: Re: [Jacob-list] Premies

What does lime do?

Kathey


________________________________
Need a job? Find employment help in your area.
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From ACAMDA at aol.com  Tue Mar 10 22:20:35 2009
From: ACAMDA at aol.com (ACAMDA at aol.com)
Date: Tue, 10 Mar 2009 22:20:35 EDT
Subject: [Jacob-list] Premies
Message-ID: <cf4.4a31db3a.36e879f3@aol.com>

Thanks, Carl!  I learn something new from you guys everyday.
 
If ag lime is ingested, is it toxic?  I have other creatures other  than 
sheep that sometimes make it into the shed.  And some of them will try  to eat 
anything.
 
Thanks!
 
Kathey
**************Need a job? Find employment help in your area. 
(http://yellowpages.aol.com/search?query=employment_agencies&ncid=emlcntusyelp00000005)
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From carlfosbrink at yahoo.com  Tue Mar 10 23:34:17 2009
From: carlfosbrink at yahoo.com (CARL FOSBRINK)
Date: Tue, 10 Mar 2009 20:34:17 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Jacob-list] Premies
References: <cf4.4a31db3a.36e879f3@aol.com>
Message-ID: <96777.45070.qm@web55507.mail.re4.yahoo.com>

No, Ag lime, barn lime,?is not toxic, but I always like to cover it with some fresh straw after applying it to the dirt floors in?our shelters.
?
Carl and Judy Fosbrink
www.4hornfarm.com




________________________________
From: "ACAMDA at aol.com" <ACAMDA at aol.com>
To: carlfosbrink at yahoo.com; pegvanbeek at msn.com; Timkoenig5 at aol.com; jacob-list at jacobsheep.com; Jacobflock at aol.com
Sent: Tuesday, March 10, 2009 10:20:35 PM
Subject: Re: [Jacob-list] Premies

Thanks, Carl!? I learn something new from you guys everyday.

If ag lime is ingested, is it toxic?? I have other creatures other than sheep that sometimes make it into the shed.? And some of them will try to eat?anything.

Thanks!

Kathey


________________________________
Need a job? Find employment help in your area.
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From gotothewhip at aol.com  Wed Mar 11 09:13:34 2009
From: gotothewhip at aol.com (gotothewhip at aol.com)
Date: Wed, 11 Mar 2009 09:13:34 -0400
Subject: [Jacob-list] Premies
In-Reply-To: <96777.45070.qm@web55507.mail.re4.yahoo.com>
References: <cf4.4a31db3a.36e879f3@aol.com>
	<96777.45070.qm@web55507.mail.re4.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <8CB7062512DD014-C78-1CBD@webmail-me04.sysops.aol.com>


I prefer Sweet PDZ or Stall Dry as they are less casutic and not as much as an irritant (especially for the eyes) as lime.? It is a similar type drying product that is for horses.? I use it every time I clean



Jennifer Tucker

Moose Mtn Ranch

www.MooseMtnRanch.com


-----Original Message-----
From: CARL FOSBRINK <carlfosbrink at yahoo.com>
To: ACAMDA at aol.com; pegvanbeek at msn.com; Timkoenig5 at aol.com; jacob-list at jacobsheep.com; Jacobflock at aol.com
Sent: Tue, 10 Mar 2009 9:34 pm
Subject: Re: [Jacob-list] Premies







No, Ag lime, barn lime,?is not toxic, but I always like to cover it with some fresh straw after applying it to the dirt floors in?our shelters.
?

Carl and Judy Fosbrink

www.4hornfarm..com






From: "ACAMDA at aol.com" <ACAMDA at aol.com>
To: carlfosbrink at yahoo.com; pegvanbeek at msn.com; Timkoenig5 at aol.com; jacob-list at jacobsheep.com; Jacobflock at aol.com
Sent: Tuesday, March 10, 2009 10:20:35 PM
Subject: Re: [Jacob-list] Premies


Thanks, Carl!? I learn something new from you guys everyday.

?

If ag lime is ingested, is it toxic?? I have other creatures other than sheep that sometimes make it into the shed.? And some of them will try to eat?anything.

?

Thanks!

?

Kathey


Need a job? Find employment help in your area.






_______________________________________________
Jacob-list mailing list, sponsored by Swallow Lane Farm & Fiberworks
Jacob-list at jacobsheep.com
http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/jacob-list

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From gotothewhip at aol.com  Wed Mar 11 09:15:03 2009
From: gotothewhip at aol.com (gotothewhip at aol.com)
Date: Wed, 11 Mar 2009 09:15:03 -0400
Subject: [Jacob-list] Premies
In-Reply-To: <d2b.464f88bf.36e84cdc@aol.com>
References: <d2b.464f88bf.36e84cdc@aol.com>
Message-ID: <8CB706286202B55-C78-1CD5@webmail-me04.sysops.aol.com>

The lime or other dring products I mentione (Sweet PDZ or Stall Dry) dry up the floor moisture, which kills the bacteria.


-----Original Message-----
From: ACAMDA at aol.com
To: carlfosbrink at yahoo.com; pegvanbeek at msn.com; Timkoenig5 at aol.com; jacob-list at jacobsheep.com; Jacobflock at aol.com
Sent: Tue, 10 Mar 2009 5:08 pm
Subject: Re: [Jacob-list] Premies



What does lime do?

?

Kathey


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From pegvanbeek at msn.com  Wed Mar 11 10:22:35 2009
From: pegvanbeek at msn.com (Marguerite Van Beek)
Date: Wed, 11 Mar 2009 10:22:35 -0400
Subject: [Jacob-list] Premies
In-Reply-To: <cf4.4a31db3a.36e879f3@aol.com><96777.45070.qm@web55507.mail.re4.yahoo.com>
	<8CB7062512DD014-C78-1CBD@webmail-me04.sysops.aol.com>
References: <cf4.4a31db3a.36e879f3@aol.com><96777.45070.qm@web55507.mail.re4.yahoo.com>
	<8CB7062512DD014-C78-1CBD@webmail-me04.sysops.aol.com>
Message-ID: <BAY137-DS12B96B1F5FE835F36C878C79E0@phx.gbl>

I would use diluted bleach.  Clean out your pens down to the dirt or concrete.  Get a pump sprayer and spray away.  Make sure if soak the floor especially if it is dirt.  Let it dry and you are fine to go.

Peggy
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: gotothewhip at aol.com<mailto:gotothewhip at aol.com> 
  To: jacob-list at jacobsheep.com<mailto:jacob-list at jacobsheep.com> 
  Sent: Wednesday, March 11, 2009 9:13 AM
  Subject: Re: [Jacob-list] Premies


  I prefer Sweet PDZ or Stall Dry as they are less casutic and not as much as an irritant (especially for the eyes) as lime.  It is a similar type drying product that is for horses.  I use it every time I clean

  Jennifer Tucker
  Moose Mtn Ranch
  www.MooseMtnRanch.com<http://www.moosemtnranch.com/>


  -----Original Message-----
  From: CARL FOSBRINK <carlfosbrink at yahoo.com>
  To: ACAMDA at aol.com; pegvanbeek at msn.com; Timkoenig5 at aol.com; jacob-list at jacobsheep.com; Jacobflock at aol.com
  Sent: Tue, 10 Mar 2009 9:34 pm
  Subject: Re: [Jacob-list] Premies


  No, Ag lime, barn lime, is not toxic, but I always like to cover it with some fresh straw after applying it to the dirt floors in our shelters.
   
  Carl and Judy Fosbrink
  www.4hornfarm..com<http://www.4hornfarm.com/>





------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  From: "ACAMDA at aol.com<mailto:ACAMDA at aol.com>" <ACAMDA at aol.com<mailto:ACAMDA at aol.com>>
  To: carlfosbrink at yahoo.com<mailto:carlfosbrink at yahoo.com>; pegvanbeek at msn.com<mailto:pegvanbeek at msn.com>; Timkoenig5 at aol.com<mailto:Timkoenig5 at aol.com>; jacob-list at jacobsheep.com<mailto:jacob-list at jacobsheep.com>; Jacobflock at aol.com<mailto:Jacobflock at aol.com>
  Sent: Tuesday, March 10, 2009 10:20:35 PM
  Subject: Re: [Jacob-list] Premies


  Thanks, Carl!  I learn something new from you guys everyday.

  If ag lime is ingested, is it toxic?  I have other creatures other than sheep that sometimes make it into the shed.  And some of them will try to eat anything.

  Thanks!

  Kathey


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From messen at socket.net  Wed Mar 11 11:10:50 2009
From: messen at socket.net (Mark Essen)
Date: Wed, 11 Mar 2009 10:10:50 -0500
Subject: [Jacob-list] lime on barn floor
In-Reply-To: <BAY137-DS12B96B1F5FE835F36C878C79E0@phx.gbl>
References: <cf4.4a31db3a.36e879f3@aol.com><96777.45070.qm@web55507.mail.re4.yahoo.com>	<8CB7062512DD014-C78-1CBD@webmail-me04.sysops.aol.com>
	<BAY137-DS12B96B1F5FE835F36C878C79E0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <49B7D47A.9020307@socket.net>

The other nice thing about lime is that it gives you an easy marker to 
know when to stop scooping the manure.  I may lay a thicker layer than 
some, but I get it by the truck load.  I do like to lay a very thick 
layer of straw down on top of the lime.  When it is time to remove the 
manure, I use a tractor with a loader.  When I hit the white layer, I 
stop.  At that point, I get a few scoops of lime with the loader on the 
tractor and make a new white layer.  I then spread the straw by hand.
Years ago, I had a friend offer to help clean the barn and he dug so 
deep that the barn floor was lower than the outside grade.  I then had 
an inside pool.  I do not get those kind of offers very often, but if it 
happens again, I do not have to worry about the novice digging too deep.

From sarbuddy at sbcglobal.net  Wed Mar 11 17:45:54 2009
From: sarbuddy at sbcglobal.net (Carol LUSSKY)
Date: Wed, 11 Mar 2009 14:45:54 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Jacob-list] Tetnis vacinations
Message-ID: <967530.17537.qm@web81203.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

I'm going to be shearing in a couple of weeks & that usually when I give my Tetnis shots...I can't for the life of me remember what that ratio of cc's to weight is....can anybody help me??

Thanks

Carol
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From ncd at mitre.org  Wed Mar 11 21:12:22 2009
From: ncd at mitre.org (Donnangelo, Nick)
Date: Wed, 11 Mar 2009 21:12:22 -0400
Subject: [Jacob-list] Premies
In-Reply-To: <BAY137-DS12B96B1F5FE835F36C878C79E0@phx.gbl>
References: <cf4.4a31db3a.36e879f3@aol.com><96777.45070.qm@web55507.mail.re4.yahoo.com>
	<8CB7062512DD014-C78-1CBD@webmail-me04.sysops.aol.com>
	<BAY137-DS12B96B1F5FE835F36C878C79E0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <20259D87F4D8DA47B9C207C1A1AC5CD40D8D0079C9@IMCMBX4.MITRE.ORG>

Lime is non toxic, but the very fine dust is quite irritating to the lungs (ours and theirs) and is bad news if it gets in the eyes, I use it in my horse stalls occasionally when they get really wet but would not recommend it for sheep...   I can't recommend bleach either; bleach plus ammonia in urine emits chlorine gas which is heavier than air and highly irritating... if you absolutely must disinfect I recommend one of the several products available in on line vet supply catalogues, or Pinesol in a pinch.

From: jacob-list-bounces at jacobsheep.com [mailto:jacob-list-bounces at jacobsheep.com] On Behalf Of Marguerite Van Beek
Sent: Wednesday, March 11, 2009 10:23 AM
To: jacob-list at jacobsheep.com; gotothewhip at aol.com
Subject: Re: [Jacob-list] Premies

I would use diluted bleach.  Clean out your pens down to the dirt or concrete.  Get a pump sprayer and spray away.  Make sure if soak the floor especially if it is dirt.  Let it dry and you are fine to go.

Peggy
----- Original Message -----
From: gotothewhip at aol.com<mailto:gotothewhip at aol.com>
To: jacob-list at jacobsheep.com<mailto:jacob-list at jacobsheep.com>
Sent: Wednesday, March 11, 2009 9:13 AM
Subject: Re: [Jacob-list] Premies

I prefer Sweet PDZ or Stall Dry as they are less casutic and not as much as an irritant (especially for the eyes) as lime.  It is a similar type drying product that is for horses.  I use it every time I clean

Jennifer Tucker
Moose Mtn Ranch
www.MooseMtnRanch.com<http://www.MooseMtnRanch.com>


-----Original Message-----
From: CARL FOSBRINK <carlfosbrink at yahoo.com>
To: ACAMDA at aol.com; pegvanbeek at msn.com; Timkoenig5 at aol.com; jacob-list at jacobsheep.com; Jacobflock at aol.com
Sent: Tue, 10 Mar 2009 9:34 pm
Subject: Re: [Jacob-list] Premies
No, Ag lime, barn lime, is not toxic, but I always like to cover it with some fresh straw after applying it to the dirt floors in our shelters.

Carl and Judy Fosbrink
www.4hornfarm..com<http://www.4hornfarm.com/>


________________________________
From: "ACAMDA at aol.com<mailto:ACAMDA at aol.com>" <ACAMDA at aol.com<mailto:ACAMDA at aol.com>>
To: carlfosbrink at yahoo.com<mailto:carlfosbrink at yahoo.com>; pegvanbeek at msn.com<mailto:pegvanbeek at msn.com>; Timkoenig5 at aol.com<mailto:Timkoenig5 at aol.com>; jacob-list at jacobsheep.com<mailto:jacob-list at jacobsheep.com>; Jacobflock at aol.com<mailto:Jacobflock at aol.com>
Sent: Tuesday, March 10, 2009 10:20:35 PM
Subject: Re: [Jacob-list] Premies


Thanks, Carl!  I learn something new from you guys everyday.

If ag lime is ingested, is it toxic?  I have other creatures other than sheep that sometimes make it into the shed.  And some of them will try to eat anything.

Thanks!

Kathey

________________________________
Need a job? Find employment help in your area<http://yellowpages.aol.com/search?query=employment_agencies&ncid=emlcntusyelp00000005>.

_______________________________________________

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From schmick54 at aol.com  Wed Mar 11 23:33:14 2009
From: schmick54 at aol.com (schmick54 at aol.com)
Date: Wed, 11 Mar 2009 23:33:14 -0400
Subject: [Jacob-list] Premies
In-Reply-To: <8CB7062512DD014-C78-1CBD@webmail-me04.sysops.aol.com>
References: <cf4.4a31db3a.36e879f3@aol.com><96777.45070.qm@web55507.mail.re4.yahoo.com>
	<8CB7062512DD014-C78-1CBD@webmail-me04.sysops.aol.com>
Message-ID: <8CB70DA68F478A6-284-2092@WEBMAIL-MZ16.sysops.aol.com>


 We use Sweet PDZ, too. We like it and it's safe !!

Mick


 


 

-----Original Message-----
From: gotothewhip at aol.com
To: jacob-list at jacobsheep.com
Sent: Wed, 11 Mar 2009 7:13 am
Subject: Re: [Jacob-list] Premies











I prefer Sweet PDZ or Stall Dry as they are less casutic and not as much as an irritant (especially for the eyes) as lime.? It is a similar type drying product that is for horses.? I use it every time I clean




?




Jennifer Tucker




Moose Mtn Ranch




www.MooseMtnRanch.com





-----Original Message-----

From: CARL FOSBRINK <carlfosbrink at yahoo.com>

To: ACAMDA at aol.com; pegvanbeek at msn.com; Timkoenig5 at aol.com; jacob-list at jacobsheep.com; Jacobflock at aol.com

Sent: Tue, 10 Mar 2009 9:34 pm

Subject: Re: [Jacob-list] Premies





















No, Ag lime, barn lime,?is not toxic, but I always like to cover it with some fresh straw after applying it to the dirt floors in?our shelters.

?




Carl and Judy Fosbrink




www.4hornfarm..com




















From: "ACAMDA at aol.com" <ACAMDA at aol.com>

To: carlfosbrink at yahoo.com; pegvanbeek at msn.com; Timkoenig5 at aol.com; jacob-list at jacobsheep.com; Jacobflock at aol.com

Sent: Tuesday, March 10, 2009 10:20:35 PM

Subject: Re: [Jacob-list] Premies






Thanks, Carl!? I learn something new from you guys everyday.




?




If ag lime is ingested, is it toxic?? I have other creatures other than sheep that sometimes make it into the shed.? And some of them will try to eat?anything.




?




Thanks!




?




Kathey










Need a job? Find employment help in your area.













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Jacob-list mailing list, sponsored by Swallow Lane Farm & Fiberworks
Jacob-list at jacobsheep.com
http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/jacob-list





 

A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above.  See yours in just 2 easy steps! 



 





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From schmick54 at aol.com  Wed Mar 11 23:47:20 2009
From: schmick54 at aol.com (schmick54 at aol.com)
Date: Wed, 11 Mar 2009 23:47:20 -0400
Subject: [Jacob-list] Tetnis vacinations
In-Reply-To: <967530.17537.qm@web81203.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <967530.17537.qm@web81203.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <8CB70DC61418EF2-284-20F9@WEBMAIL-MZ16.sysops.aol.com>


 


 


 CD& T, or just tetanus ? We usually give CD&T, which includes tetanus. 2 cc. is what you'd need for CD&T.

Mick

-----Original Message-----
From: Carol LUSSKY <sarbuddy at sbcglobal.net>
To: jacob-list at jacobsheep.com
Sent: Wed, 11 Mar 2009 3:45 pm
Subject: [Jacob-list] Tetnis vacinations











I'm going to be shearing in a couple of weeks & that usually when I give my Tetnis shots...I can't for the life of me remember what that ratio of cc's to weight is....can anybody help me??


?


Thanks


?


Carol


 





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From pegvanbeek at msn.com  Thu Mar 12 09:35:34 2009
From: pegvanbeek at msn.com (Marguerite Van Beek)
Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2009 09:35:34 -0400
Subject: [Jacob-list] Premies
In-Reply-To: <cf4.4a31db3a.36e879f3@aol.com><96777.45070.qm@web55507.mail.re4.yahoo.com><8CB7062512DD014-C78-1CBD@webmail-me04.sysops.aol.com><BAY137-DS12B96B1F5FE835F36C878C79E0@phx.gbl>
	<20259D87F4D8DA47B9C207C1A1AC5CD40D8D0079C9@IMCMBX4.MITRE.ORG>
References: <cf4.4a31db3a.36e879f3@aol.com><96777.45070.qm@web55507.mail.re4.yahoo.com><8CB7062512DD014-C78-1CBD@webmail-me04.sysops.aol.com><BAY137-DS12B96B1F5FE835F36C878C79E0@phx.gbl>
	<20259D87F4D8DA47B9C207C1A1AC5CD40D8D0079C9@IMCMBX4.MITRE.ORG>
Message-ID: <BAY137-DS494BCFD99F4EFE32027A4C79F0@phx.gbl>

We all have some great opinions but first I would found out exactly what is happening with your flock.  I would have an autopsy done.  then go from there.

Peggy
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Donnangelo, Nick<mailto:ncd at mitre.org> 
  To: Marguerite Van Beek<mailto:pegvanbeek at msn.com> ; jacob-list at jacobsheep.com<mailto:jacob-list at jacobsheep.com> ; gotothewhip at aol.com<mailto:gotothewhip at aol.com> 
  Sent: Wednesday, March 11, 2009 9:12 PM
  Subject: Re: [Jacob-list] Premies


  Lime is non toxic, but the very fine dust is quite irritating to the lungs (ours and theirs) and is bad news if it gets in the eyes, I use it in my horse stalls occasionally when they get really wet but would not recommend it for sheep.   I can't recommend bleach either; bleach plus ammonia in urine emits chlorine gas which is heavier than air and highly irritating. if you absolutely must disinfect I recommend one of the several products available in on line vet supply catalogues, or Pinesol in a pinch.  

   

  From: jacob-list-bounces at jacobsheep.com [mailto:jacob-list-bounces at jacobsheep.com] On Behalf Of Marguerite Van Beek
  Sent: Wednesday, March 11, 2009 10:23 AM
  To: jacob-list at jacobsheep.com; gotothewhip at aol.com
  Subject: Re: [Jacob-list] Premies

   

  I would use diluted bleach.  Clean out your pens down to the dirt or concrete.  Get a pump sprayer and spray away.  Make sure if soak the floor especially if it is dirt.  Let it dry and you are fine to go.

   

  Peggy

    ----- Original Message ----- 

    From: gotothewhip at aol.com<mailto:gotothewhip at aol.com> 

    To: jacob-list at jacobsheep.com<mailto:jacob-list at jacobsheep.com> 

    Sent: Wednesday, March 11, 2009 9:13 AM

    Subject: Re: [Jacob-list] Premies

     

    I prefer Sweet PDZ or Stall Dry as they are less casutic and not as much as an irritant (especially for the eyes) as lime.  It is a similar type drying product that is for horses.  I use it every time I clean

     

    Jennifer Tucker

    Moose Mtn Ranch

    www.MooseMtnRanch.com<http://www.moosemtnranch.com/>


    -----Original Message-----
    From: CARL FOSBRINK <carlfosbrink at yahoo.com>
    To: ACAMDA at aol.com; pegvanbeek at msn.com; Timkoenig5 at aol.com; jacob-list at jacobsheep.com; Jacobflock at aol.com
    Sent: Tue, 10 Mar 2009 9:34 pm
    Subject: Re: [Jacob-list] Premies

    No, Ag lime, barn lime, is not toxic, but I always like to cover it with some fresh straw after applying it to the dirt floors in our shelters.
     

    Carl and Judy Fosbrink

    www.4hornfarm..com<http://www.4hornfarm.com/>

     

     


----------------------------------------------------------------------------

    From: "ACAMDA at aol.com<mailto:ACAMDA at aol.com>" <ACAMDA at aol.com<mailto:ACAMDA at aol.com>>
    To: carlfosbrink at yahoo.com<mailto:carlfosbrink at yahoo.com>; pegvanbeek at msn.com<mailto:pegvanbeek at msn.com>; Timkoenig5 at aol.com<mailto:Timkoenig5 at aol.com>; jacob-list at jacobsheep.com<mailto:jacob-list at jacobsheep.com>; Jacobflock at aol.com<mailto:Jacobflock at aol.com>
    Sent: Tuesday, March 10, 2009 10:20:35 PM
    Subject: Re: [Jacob-list] Premies




    Thanks, Carl!  I learn something new from you guys everyday.

     

    If ag lime is ingested, is it toxic?  I have other creatures other than sheep that sometimes make it into the shed.  And some of them will try to eat anything.

     

    Thanks!

     

    Kathey

     


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From patchworkfibers at alltel.net  Thu Mar 12 09:52:07 2009
From: patchworkfibers at alltel.net (Linda)
Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2009 09:52:07 -0400
Subject: [Jacob-list] lime on barn floor
In-Reply-To: <49B7D47A.9020307@socket.net>
Message-ID: <20093129527.531171@Linda-PC>

I did that last year - dug down below the outside grade. What a mess! Luckily Dave loves digging dirt with the tractor and moving it around, as it took many loads to build the floor back up.



Years ago, I had a friend offer to help clean the barn and he dug so
deep that the barn floor was lower than the outside grade.  I then had
an inside pool.  I do not get those kind of offers very often, but if it
happens again, I do not have to worry about the novice digging too deep.
_______________________________________________
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From sarbuddy at sbcglobal.net  Thu Mar 12 12:41:19 2009
From: sarbuddy at sbcglobal.net (Carol LUSSKY)
Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2009 09:41:19 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Jacob-list] Tetnis vacinations
References: <967530.17537.qm@web81203.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<8CB70DC61418EF2-284-20F9@WEBMAIL-MZ16.sysops.aol.com>
Message-ID: <889502.43969.qm@web81206.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Yep, it's CD & T....thanks everybody for the info.

Carol




________________________________
From: "schmick54 at aol.com" <schmick54 at aol.com>
To: sarbuddy at sbcglobal.net; jacob-list at jacobsheep.com
Sent: Wednesday, March 11, 2009 10:47:20 PM
Subject: Re: [Jacob-list] Tetnis vacinations




CD& T, or just tetanus ? We usually give CD&T, which includes tetanus. 2 cc. is what you'd need for CD&T.

Mick
-----Original Message-----
From: Carol LUSSKY <sarbuddy at sbcglobal.net>
To: jacob-list at jacobsheep.com
Sent: Wed, 11 Mar 2009 3:45 pm
Subject: [Jacob-list] Tetnis vacinations


I'm going to be shearing in a couple of weeks & that usually when I give my Tetnis shots...I can't for the life of me remember what that ratio of cc's to weight is....can anybody help me??

Thanks

Carol
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From aztreaz at earthlink.net  Thu Mar 12 13:06:21 2009
From: aztreaz at earthlink.net (ARTHUR PARTRIDGE)
Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2009 10:06:21 -0700
Subject: [Jacob-list] Tetanus vaccinations
Message-ID: <410-22009341217621593@earthlink.net>

>CD& T, or just tetanus ? We usually give CD&T, which includes tetanus. 2
cc. is what you'd need for CD&T.
> 
>Mick
=======
Same here.  We give C,D & T to pregnant ewes one month before birth.  That
way the lambs are protected as well.  There is no need for separate tetanus
shots to lambs or ewes.  They are protected from other diseases too,
besides tetanus.  I thought this vaccine would protect against abortion
storms, but it doesn't.  There is a separate vaccine for that.

Cathy
Moscow, Idaho



From evelyn489 at aol.com  Sun Mar 15 19:17:30 2009
From: evelyn489 at aol.com (evelyn489 at aol.com)
Date: Sun, 15 Mar 2009 19:17:30 -0400
Subject: [Jacob-list] question - effects of crop applications
Message-ID: <8CB73DB5943B9B6-548-1EB@webmail-de05.sysops.aol.com>

This is a really odd question but I thought I'd shoot it out there and see if I got any thoughts.

Our pasture goes to our property line?and our neighbor farm is a large parcel of land that is used for a variety of things, soybeans, alfalfa, timothy etc.? Is that farmer under any obligation to me to report what he is applying to his land?? I ask this because whatever fertilizers etc are sprayed on are pretty noxious to my untrained nose?and I'm wondering what effect they have on my sheep who are out there close to what they are spraying.? Is there any setback he has to follow?? ?Also my biggest problem with this farmer is that he reduces a manure pool from his other farm of dairy cows by spraying HUGE amounts of liquid manure throughout the summer/fall.? This creates a huge fly problem for my sheep not to mention my house and family.? We have spoken to the soil conservation district and it is worth noting that we are in the Chesapeake Bay watershed.? However, this is the single biggest remaining Dairy farmer in the county, head of the county fairboard, etc. so he is a "goo
 d ole boy".

Your wisdom is appreciated!? If I could move my sheep I certainly would but we have just a small farmette.

Evelyn
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From nlgrose at yadtel.net  Sun Mar 15 21:28:32 2009
From: nlgrose at yadtel.net (Neal and Louise Grose)
Date: Sun, 15 Mar 2009 21:28:32 -0400
Subject: [Jacob-list] question - effects of crop applications
References: <8CB73DB5943B9B6-548-1EB@webmail-de05.sysops.aol.com>
Message-ID: <DB48FB48880941B781840756E9599C70@HAL2>

Evelyn,

There are set backs and other restrictions that your neighbor has to follow, especially if you are in the Chesapeake Watershed. The Soil and Water Conservation office can give you a written copy of them. Odds are, your neighbor is already following them. If you are in an agricultural district, I don't know of any particular reason he has to notify you as long as he is following accepted farming practices.Since your neighbor is a dairy farmer, he is not likely to use any chemicals that would keep him from feeding the crops to his cows after the proper withdrawal times. The restrictions on milk supplies are more stringent than on "beef", or sheep. It is unlikely that he is using anything that could harm the sheep if used correctly. That doesn't mean *stuff* don't stink. 

Fertilizers are not usually sprayed in liquid form. More than likely, if you smell "chemicals", they are using pesticides of some sort. These definitely should not be sprayed on days when there is likely to be spray drift to your property. Row crops need to be sprayed to the edge of the field, but there should be at least a 15 or 20 foot field border.
*Alfalfa requires spraying with insecticides in late March in our area to prevent alfalfa weevils from wiping out the crop. Generally these are short half-life insecticides that are gone in 14 to 21 days. 
*Most soybeans are now sprayed with Round-up since almost all are "Round-up Ready". Though I consider Monsanto to be a necessary evil, Round-up is one of the most benevolent herbicides we use. You could probably drink it, but I don't recommend it. 
*If the are growing corn, they might use one of the 2,4-D derived herbicides (which definitely stink) to control broad-leaved weeds. These can not be used on hay crops. (The hold-out period is 45+ days.)

With manure application, he definitely has to follow restrictive regulations for application of waste (ours are more restrictive than those followed by city municipal systems). He can not spread when the ground is saturated or rain is expected. Farms are expected to be zero run-off. As for the smell and increase in fly problems, It is all relative. I see dramatically less fly problems when we are using liquid manure. The smell should only last until the next rain. Our regulations require a 50 foot set back on manure application from property lines. In my opinion, tilling it in should NOT be an option, since tillage creates soil erosion and increased water pollution.

I urge you to have patience. You don't say whether you have talked to the farmer in question. Most of the time, we farmers like to keep good neighbors, and we often simply get too busy to notice that there is a problem. I have never met a dairy farmer who was not an animal lover, and have more than our share of experience with metabolic and birthing problems. This guy might well be a valuable resource to you. Think about approaching him now, before cropping season while he is a little calmer. The economy tanking has taken it's toll on dairy farms. Our farm price for milk is about half of what it was 18 months ago, this guy might not be in business next year, and your milk might be shipped in from Texas.

Neal Grose
Harmony, NC, Holstein cow and Jacob Sheep farmer
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: evelyn489 at aol.com 
  To: jacob-list at jacobsheep.com 
  Sent: Sunday, March 15, 2009 7:17 PM
  Subject: [Jacob-list] question - effects of crop applications


  This is a really odd question but I thought I'd shoot it out there and see if I got any thoughts.

  Our pasture goes to our property line and our neighbor farm is a large parcel of land that is used for a variety of things, soybeans, alfalfa, timothy etc.  Is that farmer under any obligation to me to report what he is applying to his land?  I ask this because whatever fertilizers etc are sprayed on are pretty noxious to my untrained nose and I'm wondering what effect they have on my sheep who are out there close to what they are spraying.  Is there any setback he has to follow?   Also my biggest problem with this farmer is that he reduces a manure pool from his other farm of dairy cows by spraying HUGE amounts of liquid manure throughout the summer/fall.  This creates a huge fly problem for my sheep not to mention my house and family.  We have spoken to the soil conservation district and it is worth noting that we are in the Chesapeake Bay watershed.  However, this is the single biggest remaining Dairy farmer in the county, head of the county fairboard, etc. so he is a "good ole boy".

  Your wisdom is appreciated!  If I could move my sheep I certainly would but we have just a small farmette.

  Evelyn


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From gotothewhip at aol.com  Sun Mar 15 21:51:11 2009
From: gotothewhip at aol.com (gotothewhip at aol.com)
Date: Sun, 15 Mar 2009 21:51:11 -0400
Subject: [Jacob-list] question - effects of crop applications
In-Reply-To: <DB48FB48880941B781840756E9599C70@HAL2>
References: <8CB73DB5943B9B6-548-1EB@webmail-de05.sysops.aol.com>
	<DB48FB48880941B781840756E9599C70@HAL2>
Message-ID: <8CB73F0D117468A-1614-C46@WEBMAIL-MZ26.sysops.aol.com>


 Evelyn, I agree with all of Neal's info.. but wanted to follow up with a recommendation to remember there are Right To Farm laws in effect in most states... especially when the farmer was "There First" In this year of depressed milk prices..His historic Dairy farm may turn into a subdivision if he has to fight too many battles.. something I am sure isn't what anyone wants.

He likely has a pesticide applicators license, and follows label application.? The odor of many Herbicides are quite strong, but their safety level is also high.... Many of the stinkier sprays allow instant or quick grazing.? 

IMHO, the neighborly thing to do is go ask a few questions about what he is using.. It may work out that he can help you with your pasture management.? Dont go with an accusatory demeanor... Instead go "pick his brain" and see if all of his experience could help you! 

I am a County Extension Agent for CSU, and we recieve calls from folks in your situation often.... and my first bit of advise is to go talk to the farmer.... 

Jennifer Tucker
Moose Mtn Ranch
Bennett, CO
www.MooseMtnRanch.com


 


 

-----Original Message-----
From: Neal and Louise Grose <nlgrose at yadtel.net>
To: jacob-list at jacobsheep.com
Sent: Sun, 15 Mar 2009 7:28 pm
Subject: Re: [Jacob-list] question - effects of crop applications
















Evelyn,


?


There are set backs and other 
restrictions?that your neighbor has to follow, especially if you are in the 
Chesapeake Watershed. The Soil and Water?Conservation 
office?can?give you a written copy of them.?Odds are,?your 
neighbor?is already following them. If you are in an agricultural district, 
I don't know of any particular reason he has to notify you as long as he is 
following accepted farming practices.Since your neighbor is a dairy 
farmer,?he is not likely to use any chemicals?that would keep him from 
feeding the crops to his cows after the proper withdrawal times. The 
restrictions on milk supplies are more stringent than on?"beef", or 
sheep.?It is unlikely that he is using anything that could harm the sheep 
if used correctly.?That doesn't mean?*stuff* don't 
stink.?


?


Fertilizers are not usually sprayed in liquid form. 
More than likely, if you smell "chemicals", they are using pesticides of some 
sort. These definitely should not be sprayed on days when there is likely to be 
spray drift to your property.?Row crops?need to?be sprayed to the 
edge of the field, but there should be at least a 15 or 20 foot field 
border.


*Alfalfa requires spraying with?insecticides 
in late March?in our area to prevent alfalfa weevils from wiping out the 
crop. Generally these are short half-life insecticides that are gone in?14 
to 21 days. 


*Most soybeans are now sprayed with Round-up since 
almost all are "Round-up Ready". Though I consider Monsanto to be a necessary 
evil, Round-up is one of the most benevolent herbicides we use. You could 
probably drink it, but I don't recommend it. 


*If the are growing corn, they might use one of the 
2,4-D derived herbicides (which definitely stink)?to 
control?broad-leaved weeds. These can not be used on hay crops. (The 
hold-out period is 45+ days.)


?


With manure application,?he definitely has to 
follow restrictive regulations for application of waste (ours are more 
restrictive than those followed by city municipal systems). He can not spread 
when the ground is saturated or rain is expected. Farms are expected to be zero 
run-off. As for the smell and increase in fly problems, It is all relative. I 
see dramatically less fly problems when we are using liquid manure. The smell 
should only last until the next rain. Our regulations require a 50 foot set back 
on manure application from property lines. In my opinion, tilling it in should 
NOT be an option, since tillage creates soil erosion and increased water 
pollution.


?


I urge you to have patience. You don't say whether 
you have talked to the farmer in question.?Most of the time, we farmers 
like to keep good neighbors, and we?often simply get too busy to notice 
that there is a problem.?I have never met a dairy farmer who was not an 
animal lover, and have more than our share of experience with metabolic and 
birthing problems.?This guy might well be a valuable resource to you. Think 
about approaching him now, before cropping season while he is a little 
calmer.?The economy tanking has taken it's 
toll on dairy farms. Our farm?price for milk?is about half of what it 
was 18 months ago, this guy might not be in business next year, and your milk 
might be shipped in from Texas.


?


Neal Grose


Harmony, NC,?Holstein cow?and Jacob Sheep 
farmer



  
----- Original Message ----- 

  
From: 
  evelyn489 at aol.com 

  
To: jacob-list at jacobsheep.com 

  
Sent: Sunday, March 15, 2009 7:17 
PM

  
Subject: [Jacob-list] question - effects 
  of crop applications

  


This is a really odd question but I thought I'd shoot it out 
  there and see if I got any thoughts.

Our pasture goes to our property 
  line?and our neighbor farm is a large parcel of land that is used for a 
  variety of things, soybeans, alfalfa, timothy etc.? Is that farmer under 
  any obligation to me to report what he is applying to his land?? I ask 
  this because whatever fertilizers etc are sprayed on are pretty noxious to my 
  untrained nose?and I'm wondering what effect they have on my sheep who 
  are out there close to what they are spraying.? Is there any setback he 
  has to follow?? ?Also my biggest problem with this farmer is that he 
  reduces a manure pool from his other farm of dairy cows by spraying HUGE 
  amounts of liquid manure throughout the summer/fall.? This creates a huge 
  fly problem for my sheep not to mention my house and family.? We have 
  spoken to the soil conservation district and it is worth noting that we are in 
  the Chesapeake Bay watershed.? However, this is the single biggest 
  remaining Dairy farmer in the county, head of the county fairboard, etc. so he 
  is a "good ole boy".

Your wisdom is appreciated!? If I could move 
  my sheep I certainly would but we have just a small farmette.

Evelyn
  


  


  Worried about job security? Check 
  out the 5 safest jobs in a recession. 

  

  




  

_______________________________________________
Jacob-list mailing 
  list, sponsored by Swallow Lane Farm & 
  Fiberworks
Jacob-list at jacobsheep.com
http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/jacob-list


 





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Jacob-list at jacobsheep.com
http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/jacob-list



 

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From aztreaz at earthlink.net  Sun Mar 15 23:15:50 2009
From: aztreaz at earthlink.net (ARTHUR PARTRIDGE)
Date: Sun, 15 Mar 2009 20:15:50 -0700
Subject: [Jacob-list] question - effects of crop applications
Message-ID: <410-2200931163155079@earthlink.net>

[Jacob-list] question - effects of crop applications
==========
Be sure to find out who is doing the chemical applications.  The pilots of
spray planes try very hard to target their applications, but sometimes
there is misapplication or drifting.  We have been on some cases where we
had to assess damages done to vegetation on neighbor's properties.  The
business that runs the chemical application (in our area they are the crop
dusters) carries insurance to cover any "accidental" spraying damages.  The
neighbor can offer some help, but you really need to contact the people
hired to do the chemical applications.  They can also tell you what is
being sprayed, plus it's a good idea to let them know you have livestock. 
We have found them to be very helpful and they want to do a good job
without hurting the neighbors.  In fact, on one case, we were hired by the
crop duster himself.  He knew he had accidentally sprayed someone's
property and damaged their trees.

Cathy
Moscow, Idaho



From hobbyknobfarm at main.nc.us  Mon Mar 16 10:33:04 2009
From: hobbyknobfarm at main.nc.us (hobbyknobfarm)
Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2009 10:33:04 -0400
Subject: [Jacob-list] farm smells
Message-ID: <B0EABFB1E9064E229E73EA7D6C9073A2@daron1>

Neal thanks for your information, it was quite educational-
Elizabeth
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From evelyn489 at aol.com  Mon Mar 16 11:20:26 2009
From: evelyn489 at aol.com (evelyn489 at aol.com)
Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2009 11:20:26 -0400
Subject: [Jacob-list] thanks for advice! - crop applications
Message-ID: <8CB7461DE17F89D-1460-DC0@WEBMAIL-DZ17.sysops.aol.com>

Hi Everyone,

???? Thanks very much for the advice and insight into my situation.? I really appreciate all the time you took to reply.? I definitely understand the plight of the dairy farmer and do a whole economics lecture for my college class that?I teach on price supports and the need to save these American icons and preserve the farmers land and livelyhood.

???? We have talked to the farmer and he is definitely a good guy, no doubt.? But I don't think he understand my concerns when the sprayers come by right next to my sheep or my kids or when it's August and Sept and all my windows and doors are covered by flies and I can't open them.? I'm all for a little country air (I'm not a suburban snob really)? ?but they disperse a huge amount of manure onto this "leased" parcel to reduce their pool to legal limts and unfortunately for me is within 100 feet of my house.? There must be some limit to what they can?disperse.??I will try to talk with him further about any pesticide or herbicide applications.? He's kind of old and most of the people who come out to?their leased feed land do not speak English.? But I will perservere!

???? One day I will buy a?big farm and put my house right smack in the middle, ha ha!!

Thanks - you guys always take the time to help out!

Evelyn

???? 
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From pegvanbeek at msn.com  Mon Mar 16 16:36:49 2009
From: pegvanbeek at msn.com (Marguerite Van Beek)
Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2009 16:36:49 -0400
Subject: [Jacob-list] Registrations
Message-ID: <BAY137-DS7864C3A6B22C150A031C4C79B0@phx.gbl>

Registrations.  I haven't had a questionable registration on a ewe in a long time.  I guess I was due. I have no problem providing the info the inspector has (pictures are questionable) to satisfy his question.  Let's assume and it is a example that she has wool forward of the horns.  My question to all of the Jacob breeders, how can you have a problem with a Jacob that could deny their entry into the JSBA Reg when all of her breedings are from Swallow Lane, Craft, Fairview, Brink May, Rockies, Unzicker, Joy Farm, Brighton etc. There are no FF 5 generations maybe more (I didn't go back that far).  If she is questionable (cross bred) then where did it come from.  Someone, somewhere is the guilty party.  Does this mean unless we find the culprit does all the rams and ewes on her pedigree questionable and their decendents.  Rightfully they should be.  Should we throw out the entire lineage?  

If it was the Jockey Club you betcha they would until the one that is guilty steps forward.  I understand that when you have FF then you might have problems like this.  Now, all of the above breeders don't go crazy my farm is on the pedigree too. Now remember this is an example please.   I just want to know where do you draw the line when it comes to acceptance.  How do you sell a lamb or ewe or ram that you have proof beyond a reasonable doubt that this Jacob is pure and then have some quirky thing like this come up.  

Peggy
 
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From gotothewhip at aol.com  Mon Mar 16 17:09:58 2009
From: gotothewhip at aol.com (gotothewhip at aol.com)
Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2009 17:09:58 -0400
Subject: [Jacob-list] Registrations
In-Reply-To: <BAY137-DS7864C3A6B22C150A031C4C79B0@phx.gbl>
References: <BAY137-DS7864C3A6B22C150A031C4C79B0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <8CB7492B25E108B-1598-A0F@webmail-db06.sysops.aol.com>

Peggy, My first submitted application failed, and it too was lots of old blood.. i was crushed, but honestly am now understanding that the inspectors only will register animals who represent the breed correctly.? I think evey now and then, even with breeding the best to the best, you get a bad gene, I dont like how that sounds... an unusual gene combination. 

I wish that Quarter Horses or any number of other breeds went thru our inspection process.? Sure there are individuals that get failed that may have benefited the breed, but those animals are outnumbered by thiose who may not have helped conserve the breed.

I dont know if this is accurate, but I was told that 50% of all Jacob Rams born (no necessarily just those that apply for registry) but of those born and alive.. 50% will not meet registration qualifications, as truly only exceptional rams should be registered and used for breeding.? And I find that about 75-90% of my ram lambs go to the freezer as they are not as nice as their daddy.? 

I dont think its a case of a breed impurity, just an undesirable trait.

Jennifer Tucker
Moose Mtn Ranch
Bennett, CO
www.MooseMtnRanch.com


-----Original Message-----
From: Marguerite Van Beek <pegvanbeek at msn.com>
To: jacob-list <jacob-list at jacobsheep.com>
Sent: Mon, 16 Mar 2009 2:36 pm
Subject: [Jacob-list] Registrations



Registrations.? I haven't had a questionable registration on a ewe in a long time.? I guess I was due. I have no problem providing the info the inspector has (pictures are questionable) to satisfy his question.? Let's assume and it?is a example that she has wool forward of the horns.? My question to all of the Jacob breeders, how can you have a problem with a Jacob that could deny their entry into the JSBA Reg?when all of her breedings are from Swallow Lane, Craft, Fairview, Brink May, Rockies, Unzicker, Joy Farm, Brighton etc. There are no FF?5 generations maybe more (I didn't go back that far).? If she is questionable (cross bred) then where did it come from.? Someone, somewhere is the guilty party.? Does this mean unless we find the culprit does all the rams and ewes on her pedigree questionable and their decendents.? Rightfully they should be.? Should we throw out the entire lineage?? 

?

If it was the Jockey Club you betcha they would until the one that is guilty steps forward.? I understand that when you have FF then you might have problems like this.? Now, all of the above breeders don't go crazy my farm is on the pedigree too.?Now remember?this is an example please.? ?I just want to know where do you draw the line when it comes to acceptance.? How do you sell a lamb or ewe or ram that you have proof beyond a reasonable doubt that this Jacob is pure and then have some quirky thing like this come up.? 

?

Peggy





_______________________________________________
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Jacob-list at jacobsheep.com
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From pegvanbeek at msn.com  Mon Mar 16 18:59:26 2009
From: pegvanbeek at msn.com (peggy)
Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2009 18:59:26 -0400
Subject: [Jacob-list] Registrations
References: <BAY137-DS7864C3A6B22C150A031C4C79B0@phx.gbl>
	<8CB7492B25E108B-1598-A0F@webmail-db06.sysops.aol.com>
Message-ID: <BAY137-DAV427244CED1B5A3EDAAFC8C79B0@phx.gbl>

I agree that is why we have inspections.  I was just wondering how these little problems come to be.  It is just a email for imput nothing else.  I am more concerned about the flaws that suggest cross breeding.  I had a ewe a long time ago that had wool foward of the horns (4 horns) when I first started.  She was put in the appendix reg.  I was told at that time this fault is a suggestion of cross breeding.  Yet I had no FF parentage all reg parents.  I was just wondering if these problems are just gene faults not crossbreeding.

Peggy
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: gotothewhip at aol.com 
  To: pegvanbeek at msn.com ; jacob-list at jacobsheep.com 
  Sent: Monday, March 16, 2009 5:09 PM
  Subject: Re: [Jacob-list] Registrations


  Peggy, My first submitted application failed, and it too was lots of old blood.. i was crushed, but honestly am now understanding that the inspectors only will register animals who represent the breed correctly.  I think evey now and then, even with breeding the best to the best, you get a bad gene, I dont like how that sounds... an unusual gene combination. 

  I wish that Quarter Horses or any number of other breeds went thru our inspection process.  Sure there are individuals that get failed that may have benefited the breed, but those animals are outnumbered by thiose who may not have helped conserve the breed.

  I dont know if this is accurate, but I was told that 50% of all Jacob Rams born (no necessarily just those that apply for registry) but of those born and alive.. 50% will not meet registration qualifications, as truly only exceptional rams should be registered and used for breeding.  And I find that about 75-90% of my ram lambs go to the freezer as they are not as nice as their daddy.  

  I dont think its a case of a breed impurity, just an undesirable trait.

  Jennifer Tucker
  Moose Mtn Ranch
  Bennett, CO
  www.MooseMtnRanch.com


  -----Original Message-----
  From: Marguerite Van Beek <pegvanbeek at msn.com>
  To: jacob-list <jacob-list at jacobsheep.com>
  Sent: Mon, 16 Mar 2009 2:36 pm
  Subject: [Jacob-list] Registrations


  Registrations.  I haven't had a questionable registration on a ewe in a long time.  I guess I was due. I have no problem providing the info the inspector has (pictures are questionable) to satisfy his question.  Let's assume and it is a example that she has wool forward of the horns.  My question to all of the Jacob breeders, how can you have a problem with a Jacob that could deny their entry into the JSBA Reg when all of her breedings are from Swallow Lane, Craft, Fairview, Brink May, Rockies, Unzicker, Joy Farm, Brighton etc. There are no FF 5 generations maybe more (I didn't go back that far).  If she is questionable (cross bred) then where did it come from.  Someone, somewhere is the guilty party.  Does this mean unless we find the culprit does all the rams and ewes on her pedigree questionable and their decendents.  Rightfully they should be.  Should we throw out the entire lineage?  

  If it was the Jockey Club you betcha they would until the one that is guilty steps forward.  I understand that when you have FF then you might have problems like this.  Now, all of the above breeders don't go crazy my farm is on the pedigree too. Now remember this is an example please.   I just want to know where do you draw the line when it comes to acceptance.  How do you sell a lamb or ewe or ram that you have proof beyond a reasonable doubt that this Jacob is pure and then have some quirky thing like this come up.  

  Peggy
_______________________________________________
Jacob-list mailing list, sponsored by Swallow Lane Farm & Fiberworks
Jacob-list at jacobsheep.com
http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/jacob-list


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  Jacob-list mailing list, sponsored by Swallow Lane Farm & Fiberworks
  Jacob-list at jacobsheep.com
  http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/jacob-list
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From mudranch at gmail.com  Mon Mar 16 19:23:04 2009
From: mudranch at gmail.com (Joan Gross)
Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2009 16:23:04 -0700
Subject: [Jacob-list] Jacob-list Digest, Vol 56, Issue 25
In-Reply-To: <mailman.466.1237244233.77797.jacob-list@jacobsheep.com>
References: <mailman.466.1237244233.77797.jacob-list@jacobsheep.com>
Message-ID: <f1982a790903161623r1a2ffecai1eee2f50447f2c1d@mail.gmail.com>

I thought that the best explanation on genetic traits was at '08's AGM
presentation done my Gary Anderson.  For a newbie like me, it was highly
educational.  Does anyone have a video of that?

Joan Gross
www.mudranchjacobs.com



On Mon, Mar 16, 2009 at 3:57 PM, <jacob-list-request at jacobsheep.com> wrote:

> Send Jacob-list mailing list submissions to
>        jacob-list at jacobsheep.com
>
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
>        http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/jacob-list
> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
>        jacob-list-request at jacobsheep.com
>
> You can reach the person managing the list at
>        jacob-list-owner at jacobsheep.com
>
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of Jacob-list digest..."
>
>
> Today's Topics:
>
>   1. Registrations (Marguerite Van Beek)
>   2. Re: Registrations (gotothewhip at aol.com)
>   3. Re: Registrations (peggy)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2009 16:36:49 -0400
> From: "Marguerite Van Beek" <pegvanbeek at msn.com>
> Subject: [Jacob-list] Registrations
> To: "jacob-list" <jacob-list at jacobsheep.com>
> Message-ID: <BAY137-DS7864C3A6B22C150A031C4C79B0 at phx.gbl>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> Registrations.  I haven't had a questionable registration on a ewe in a
> long time.  I guess I was due. I have no problem providing the info the
> inspector has (pictures are questionable) to satisfy his question.  Let's
> assume and it is a example that she has wool forward of the horns.  My
> question to all of the Jacob breeders, how can you have a problem with a
> Jacob that could deny their entry into the JSBA Reg when all of her
> breedings are from Swallow Lane, Craft, Fairview, Brink May, Rockies,
> Unzicker, Joy Farm, Brighton etc. There are no FF 5 generations maybe more
> (I didn't go back that far).  If she is questionable (cross bred) then where
> did it come from.  Someone, somewhere is the guilty party.  Does this mean
> unless we find the culprit does all the rams and ewes on her pedigree
> questionable and their decendents.  Rightfully they should be.  Should we
> throw out the entire lineage?
>
> If it was the Jockey Club you betcha they would until the one that is
> guilty steps forward.  I understand that when you have FF then you might
> have problems like this.  Now, all of the above breeders don't go crazy my
> farm is on the pedigree too. Now remember this is an example please.   I
> just want to know where do you draw the line when it comes to acceptance.
>  How do you sell a lamb or ewe or ram that you have proof beyond a
> reasonable doubt that this Jacob is pure and then have some quirky thing
> like this come up.
>
> Peggy
>
> -------------- next part --------------
> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> URL: <
> http://www.pairlist.net/pipermail/jacob-list/attachments/20090316/242247c9/attachment-0001.htm
> >
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2009 17:09:58 -0400
> From: gotothewhip at aol.com
> Subject: Re: [Jacob-list] Registrations
> To: pegvanbeek at msn.com, jacob-list at jacobsheep.com
> Message-ID: <8CB7492B25E108B-1598-A0F at webmail-db06.sysops.aol.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> Peggy, My first submitted application failed, and it too was lots of old
> blood.. i was crushed, but honestly am now understanding that the inspectors
> only will register animals who represent the breed correctly.? I think evey
> now and then, even with breeding the best to the best, you get a bad gene, I
> dont like how that sounds... an unusual gene combination.
>
> I wish that Quarter Horses or any number of other breeds went thru our
> inspection process.? Sure there are individuals that get failed that may
> have benefited the breed, but those animals are outnumbered by thiose who
> may not have helped conserve the breed.
>
> I dont know if this is accurate, but I was told that 50% of all Jacob Rams
> born (no necessarily just those that apply for registry) but of those born
> and alive.. 50% will not meet registration qualifications, as truly only
> exceptional rams should be registered and used for breeding.? And I find
> that about 75-90% of my ram lambs go to the freezer as they are not as nice
> as their daddy.?
>
> I dont think its a case of a breed impurity, just an undesirable trait.
>
> Jennifer Tucker
> Moose Mtn Ranch
> Bennett, CO
> www.MooseMtnRanch.com <http://www.moosemtnranch.com/>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Marguerite Van Beek <pegvanbeek at msn.com>
> To: jacob-list <jacob-list at jacobsheep.com>
> Sent: Mon, 16 Mar 2009 2:36 pm
> Subject: [Jacob-list] Registrations
>
>
>
> Registrations.? I haven't had a questionable registration on a ewe in a
> long time.? I guess I was due. I have no problem providing the info the
> inspector has (pictures are questionable) to satisfy his question.? Let's
> assume and it?is a example that she has wool forward of the horns.? My
> question to all of the Jacob breeders, how can you have a problem with a
> Jacob that could deny their entry into the JSBA Reg?when all of her
> breedings are from Swallow Lane, Craft, Fairview, Brink May, Rockies,
> Unzicker, Joy Farm, Brighton etc. There are no FF?5 generations maybe more
> (I didn't go back that far).? If she is questionable (cross bred) then where
> did it come from.? Someone, somewhere is the guilty party.? Does this mean
> unless we find the culprit does all the rams and ewes on her pedigree
> questionable and their decendents.? Rightfully they should be.? Should we
> throw out the entire lineage??
>
> ?
>
> If it was the Jockey Club you betcha they would until the one that is
> guilty steps forward.? I understand that when you have FF then you might
> have problems like this.? Now, all of the above breeders don't go crazy my
> farm is on the pedigree too.?Now remember?this is an example please.? ?I
> just want to know where do you draw the line when it comes to acceptance.?
> How do you sell a lamb or ewe or ram that you have proof beyond a reasonable
> doubt that this Jacob is pure and then have some quirky thing like this come
> up.?
>
> ?
>
> Peggy
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Jacob-list mailing list, sponsored by Swallow Lane Farm & Fiberworks
> Jacob-list at jacobsheep.com
> http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/jacob-list
>
> -------------- next part --------------
> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> URL: <
> http://www.pairlist.net/pipermail/jacob-list/attachments/20090316/29af7c7c/attachment-0001.html
> >
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2009 18:59:26 -0400
> From: "peggy" <pegvanbeek at msn.com>
> Subject: Re: [Jacob-list] Registrations
> To: <jacob-list at jacobsheep.com>,        <gotothewhip at aol.com>
> Message-ID: <BAY137-DAV427244CED1B5A3EDAAFC8C79B0 at phx.gbl>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> I agree that is why we have inspections.  I was just wondering how these
> little problems come to be.  It is just a email for imput nothing else.  I
> am more concerned about the flaws that suggest cross breeding.  I had a ewe
> a long time ago that had wool foward of the horns (4 horns) when I first
> started.  She was put in the appendix reg.  I was told at that time this
> fault is a suggestion of cross breeding.  Yet I had no FF parentage all reg
> parents.  I was just wondering if these problems are just gene faults not
> crossbreeding.
>
> Peggy
>  ----- Original Message -----
>  From: gotothewhip at aol.com
>  To: pegvanbeek at msn.com ; jacob-list at jacobsheep.com
>  Sent: Monday, March 16, 2009 5:09 PM
>  Subject: Re: [Jacob-list] Registrations
>
>
>  Peggy, My first submitted application failed, and it too was lots of old
> blood.. i was crushed, but honestly am now understanding that the inspectors
> only will register animals who represent the breed correctly.  I think evey
> now and then, even with breeding the best to the best, you get a bad gene, I
> dont like how that sounds... an unusual gene combination.
>
>  I wish that Quarter Horses or any number of other breeds went thru our
> inspection process.  Sure there are individuals that get failed that may
> have benefited the breed, but those animals are outnumbered by thiose who
> may not have helped conserve the breed.
>
>  I dont know if this is accurate, but I was told that 50% of all Jacob Rams
> born (no necessarily just those that apply for registry) but of those born
> and alive.. 50% will not meet registration qualifications, as truly only
> exceptional rams should be registered and used for breeding.  And I find
> that about 75-90% of my ram lambs go to the freezer as they are not as nice
> as their daddy.
>
>  I dont think its a case of a breed impurity, just an undesirable trait.
>
>  Jennifer Tucker
>  Moose Mtn Ranch
>  Bennett, CO
>  www.MooseMtnRanch.com <http://www.moosemtnranch.com/>
>
>
>  -----Original Message-----
>  From: Marguerite Van Beek <pegvanbeek at msn.com>
>  To: jacob-list <jacob-list at jacobsheep.com>
>  Sent: Mon, 16 Mar 2009 2:36 pm
>  Subject: [Jacob-list] Registrations
>
>
>  Registrations.  I haven't had a questionable registration on a ewe in a
> long time.  I guess I was due. I have no problem providing the info the
> inspector has (pictures are questionable) to satisfy his question.  Let's
> assume and it is a example that she has wool forward of the horns.  My
> question to all of the Jacob breeders, how can you have a problem with a
> Jacob that could deny their entry into the JSBA Reg when all of her
> breedings are from Swallow Lane, Craft, Fairview, Brink May, Rockies,
> Unzicker, Joy Farm, Brighton etc. There are no FF 5 generations maybe more
> (I didn't go back that far).  If she is questionable (cross bred) then where
> did it come from.  Someone, somewhere is the guilty party.  Does this mean
> unless we find the culprit does all the rams and ewes on her pedigree
> questionable and their decendents.  Rightfully they should be.  Should we
> throw out the entire lineage?
>
>  If it was the Jockey Club you betcha they would until the one that is
> guilty steps forward.  I understand that when you have FF then you might
> have problems like this.  Now, all of the above breeders don't go crazy my
> farm is on the pedigree too. Now remember this is an example please.   I
> just want to know where do you draw the line when it comes to acceptance.
>  How do you sell a lamb or ewe or ram that you have proof beyond a
> reasonable doubt that this Jacob is pure and then have some quirky thing
> like this come up.
>
>  Peggy
> _______________________________________________
> Jacob-list mailing list, sponsored by Swallow Lane Farm & Fiberworks
> Jacob-list at jacobsheep.com
> http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/jacob-list
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>  A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy steps!
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>  _______________________________________________
>  Jacob-list mailing list, sponsored by Swallow Lane Farm & Fiberworks
>  Jacob-list at jacobsheep.com
>  http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/jacob-list
> -------------- next part --------------
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> URL: <
> http://www.pairlist.net/pipermail/jacob-list/attachments/20090316/69b9d3b6/attachment.htm
> >
>
> ------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> Jacob-list mailing list
> Jacob-list at jacobsheep.com
> http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/jacob-list
>
>
> End of Jacob-list Digest, Vol 56, Issue 25
> ******************************************
>



-- 
www.mudranchjacobs.com

www.mudranch.com


<``\__~   <``\__~   <``\__~
...// \\.........// \\.........// \\....
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From hettick1 at yahoo.com  Wed Mar 18 11:41:16 2009
From: hettick1 at yahoo.com (Heather Hettick)
Date: Wed, 18 Mar 2009 08:41:16 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Jacob-list] registration question
In-Reply-To: <mailman.11.1237306524.99719.jacob-list@jacobsheep.com>
Message-ID: <551264.19965.qm@web65402.mail.ac4.yahoo.com>


I have really light ewe lamb I?m agonizing over this year.  She otherwise looks good with nice horns, overall Jacob confirmation and she?s a blue eyed lilac.  I doubt she has much over 10% color though.  

Doesn?t JSBA have an appendix registration or something like that for ewes who don?t quite meet the standards or has that changed?

Heather Hettick
Moonstruck Farm
Creston, OH






      

From nlgrose at yadtel.net  Wed Mar 18 13:14:19 2009
From: nlgrose at yadtel.net (Neal and Louise Grose)
Date: Wed, 18 Mar 2009 13:14:19 -0400
Subject: [Jacob-list] registration question
References: <551264.19965.qm@web65402.mail.ac4.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <F67CC54460E242E0969E00FCD5A2AA9C@HAL2>

I am going to skip what JSBA has as policy and go right to heart of the 
previous question asked by Peggy. I think part of the reason that we do not 
see more outliers is that most experienced breeders do not send them in for 
registration. Perhaps we would rather cull them than get a reputation with 
substandard animals.

"How do these things happen in an established line of Jacobs Sheep?"

As much as we might like to ignore it, there is variation in these type 
traits and the sudden odd thing popping up is to be expected. This does not 
mean it is desirable, and I do not in the least question the inspectors if 
they fail such animals. Including them in the flockbook would increase the 
odds that we will have more non-standard sheep in the future, which would 
undermine the value of other animals in our flock.

Extreme color percentage is more common as an out-lying trait, but I have 
seen wool forward of the horns as well. Of the two, wool forward of the 
horns is MORE LIKELY to be evidence of cross-breeding, but I would be a 
little skeptical of anyone that automatically regarded this as 
cross-breeding. Neither of these things is the result of a single gene that 
pops out showing the "polluting effect" after many generations.

Excessive white or excessive color are the result of natural variations in 
the piebald expression. In a random sampling of animals without selection 
against the trait, the color range will expand and there will constantly be 
more and more out-liers.

In my experience, selection for greater fineness of fleece and more wool 
quantity will eventually produce some individuals with "bangs". This may 
well shed off after the first year or so.

It might be better to always evaluate our sheep only as mature animals. 
However, we need to remember that our goal with Jacobs is hard to achieve, 
because we are seeking to keep them average within a range. Unlike Merino 
where you can't get the wool too fine, or monster show Suffolks where you 
can't get the ******* too big, we have to select against both extremes. 
Percent color, horn set, wool fineness and weight, etc., all supposed to be 
kinda in the middle.

Neal Grose


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Heather Hettick" <hettick1 at yahoo.com>
To: <jacob-list at jacobsheep.com>
Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 11:41 AM
Subject: Re: [Jacob-list] registration question


>
> I have really light ewe lamb I?m agonizing over this year.  She otherwise 
> looks good with nice horns, overall Jacob confirmation and she?s a blue 
> eyed lilac.  I doubt she has much over 10% color though.
>
> Doesn?t JSBA have an appendix registration or something like that for ewes 
> who don?t quite meet the standards or has that changed?
>
> Heather Hettick
> Moonstruck Farm
> Creston, OH
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Jacob-list mailing list, sponsored by Swallow Lane Farm & Fiberworks
> Jacob-list at jacobsheep.com
> http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/jacob-list
> 


From fabrega at pacbell.net  Wed Mar 18 13:33:10 2009
From: fabrega at pacbell.net (Francis Martinez)
Date: Wed, 18 Mar 2009 10:33:10 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Jacob-list] Fw: [preparedsurvivalistsunite2] HR 875..another
	infringement on our rights, all in the name of 'safety'
Message-ID: <275141.94735.qm@web81702.mail.mud.yahoo.com>




?
?
?
?
?
"Follow your dreams.....no one can take them away....hear the winds, listen to the waters, seek and understand.......hear the wolf's cry at night and the song of the birds as they take flight..wherever you go........listen with your soul..."...............Coyote Eyes 09

--- On Wed, 3/18/09, Judy Schultz <munchsmom2001 at yahoo.com> wrote:

From: Judy Schultz <munchsmom2001 at yahoo.com>
Subject: [preparedsurvivalistsunite2] HR 875..another infringement on our rights, all in the name of 'safety'
To: nonaisin-theus at yahoogroups.com, preparedsurvivalistsunite2 at yahoogroups.com
Date: Wednesday, March 18, 2009, 8:38 AM










If this gets through, we not only have to hide our firearms and animals...we' ll have to disguise our gardens as well.? The senator that is pushing for this bill has a husband in Monsanto.? 
http://www.govtrack .us/congress/ billtext. xpd?bill= h111-875

Judy Schultz 
?Protect your property rights!! www.nonais.org 
Fight Breed Discrimination! !! www.unitedanimalown ersalliance. com
FIGHT TOXINS, GO GREEN, GET HEALTHY AND EARN $$$ for info....
www.Godrocks. wisehomebiz. com


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From carlfosbrink at yahoo.com  Wed Mar 18 19:10:05 2009
From: carlfosbrink at yahoo.com (CARL FOSBRINK)
Date: Wed, 18 Mar 2009 16:10:05 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Jacob-list] registration question
References: <551264.19965.qm@web65402.mail.ac4.yahoo.com>
	<F67CC54460E242E0969E00FCD5A2AA9C@HAL2>
Message-ID: <946782.43159.qm@web55503.mail.re4.yahoo.com>

Heather,

??? Yes, JSBA has an AC category for ewes, but not rams, that have a good pedigree, but do not quite meet the breed standard like your lilac ewe. If?everything else is OK with her, other than the 10% color, she would probably be ACd.

Carl
?
Carl and Judy Fosbrink
www.4hornfarm.com




________________________________
From: Neal and Louise Grose <nlgrose at yadtel.net>
To: jacob-list at jacobsheep.com
Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 1:14:19 PM
Subject: Re: [Jacob-list] registration question

I am going to skip what JSBA has as policy and go right to heart of the previous question asked by Peggy. I think part of the reason that we do not see more outliers is that most experienced breeders do not send them in for registration. Perhaps we would rather cull them than get a reputation with substandard animals.

"How do these things happen in an established line of Jacobs Sheep?"

As much as we might like to ignore it, there is variation in these type traits and the sudden odd thing popping up is to be expected. This does not mean it is desirable, and I do not in the least question the inspectors if they fail such animals. Including them in the flockbook would increase the odds that we will have more non-standard sheep in the future, which would undermine the value of other animals in our flock.

Extreme color percentage is more common as an out-lying trait, but I have seen wool forward of the horns as well. Of the two, wool forward of the horns is MORE LIKELY to be evidence of cross-breeding, but I would be a little skeptical of anyone that automatically regarded this as cross-breeding. Neither of these things is the result of a single gene that pops out showing the "polluting effect" after many generations.

Excessive white or excessive color are the result of natural variations in the piebald expression. In a random sampling of animals without selection against the trait, the color range will expand and there will constantly be more and more out-liers.

In my experience, selection for greater fineness of fleece and more wool quantity will eventually produce some individuals with "bangs". This may well shed off after the first year or so.

It might be better to always evaluate our sheep only as mature animals. However, we need to remember that our goal with Jacobs is hard to achieve, because we are seeking to keep them average within a range. Unlike Merino where you can't get the wool too fine, or monster show Suffolks where you can't get the ******* too big, we have to select against both extremes. Percent color, horn set, wool fineness and weight, etc., all supposed to be kinda in the middle.

Neal Grose


----- Original Message ----- From: "Heather Hettick" <hettick1 at yahoo.com>
To: <jacob-list at jacobsheep.com>
Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 11:41 AM
Subject: Re: [Jacob-list] registration question


> 
> I have really light ewe lamb I?m agonizing over this year.? She otherwise looks good with nice horns, overall Jacob confirmation and she?s a blue eyed lilac.? I doubt she has much over 10% color though.
> 
> Doesn?t JSBA have an appendix registration or something like that for ewes who don?t quite meet the standards or has that changed?
> 
> Heather Hettick
> Moonstruck Farm
> Creston, OH
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Jacob-list mailing list, sponsored by Swallow Lane Farm & Fiberworks
> Jacob-list at jacobsheep.com
> http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/jacob-list
> 

_______________________________________________
Jacob-list mailing list, sponsored by Swallow Lane Farm & Fiberworks
Jacob-list at jacobsheep.com
http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/jacob-list
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From fourhornfarm at verizon.net  Wed Mar 18 19:15:37 2009
From: fourhornfarm at verizon.net (fourhornfarm)
Date: Wed, 18 Mar 2009 19:15:37 -0400
Subject: [Jacob-list] registration question
References: <551264.19965.qm@web65402.mail.ac4.yahoo.com>
	<F67CC54460E242E0969E00FCD5A2AA9C@HAL2>
Message-ID: <A948D653F09740029FDB0329A249E0A6@DollyLama>

Thanks for your input Neal.
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Neal and Louise Grose" <nlgrose at yadtel.net>
To: <jacob-list at jacobsheep.com>
Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 1:14 PM
Subject: Re: [Jacob-list] registration question


>I am going to skip what JSBA has as policy and go right to heart of the 
>previous question asked by Peggy. I think part of the reason that we do not 
>see more outliers is that most experienced breeders do not send them in for 
>registration. Perhaps we would rather cull them than get a reputation with 
>substandard animals.
>
> "How do these things happen in an established line of Jacobs Sheep?"
>
> As much as we might like to ignore it, there is variation in these type 
> traits and the sudden odd thing popping up is to be expected. This does 
> not mean it is desirable, and I do not in the least question the 
> inspectors if they fail such animals. Including them in the flockbook 
> would increase the odds that we will have more non-standard sheep in the 
> future, which would undermine the value of other animals in our flock.
>
> Extreme color percentage is more common as an out-lying trait, but I have 
> seen wool forward of the horns as well. Of the two, wool forward of the 
> horns is MORE LIKELY to be evidence of cross-breeding, but I would be a 
> little skeptical of anyone that automatically regarded this as 
> cross-breeding. Neither of these things is the result of a single gene 
> that pops out showing the "polluting effect" after many generations.
>
> Excessive white or excessive color are the result of natural variations in 
> the piebald expression. In a random sampling of animals without selection 
> against the trait, the color range will expand and there will constantly 
> be more and more out-liers.
>
> In my experience, selection for greater fineness of fleece and more wool 
> quantity will eventually produce some individuals with "bangs". This may 
> well shed off after the first year or so.
>
> It might be better to always evaluate our sheep only as mature animals. 
> However, we need to remember that our goal with Jacobs is hard to achieve, 
> because we are seeking to keep them average within a range. Unlike Merino 
> where you can't get the wool too fine, or monster show Suffolks where you 
> can't get the ******* too big, we have to select against both extremes. 
> Percent color, horn set, wool fineness and weight, etc., all supposed to 
> be kinda in the middle.
>
> Neal Grose
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Heather Hettick" <hettick1 at yahoo.com>
> To: <jacob-list at jacobsheep.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 11:41 AM
> Subject: Re: [Jacob-list] registration question
>
>
>>
>> I have really light ewe lamb I?m agonizing over this year.  She otherwise 
>> looks good with nice horns, overall Jacob confirmation and she?s a blue 
>> eyed lilac.  I doubt she has much over 10% color though.
>>
>> Doesn?t JSBA have an appendix registration or something like that for 
>> ewes who don?t quite meet the standards or has that changed?
>>
>> Heather Hettick
>> Moonstruck Farm
>> Creston, OH
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Jacob-list mailing list, sponsored by Swallow Lane Farm & Fiberworks
>> Jacob-list at jacobsheep.com
>> http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/jacob-list
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Jacob-list mailing list, sponsored by Swallow Lane Farm & Fiberworks
> Jacob-list at jacobsheep.com
> http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/jacob-list
> 


From pegvanbeek at msn.com  Thu Mar 19 10:13:34 2009
From: pegvanbeek at msn.com (Marguerite Van Beek)
Date: Thu, 19 Mar 2009 10:13:34 -0400
Subject: [Jacob-list] registration question
In-Reply-To: <551264.19965.qm@web65402.mail.ac4.yahoo.com>
	<F67CC54460E242E0969E00FCD5A2AA9C@HAL2>
References: <551264.19965.qm@web65402.mail.ac4.yahoo.com>
	<F67CC54460E242E0969E00FCD5A2AA9C@HAL2>
Message-ID: <BAY137-DS369997D4D279BD7F1EE17C7960@phx.gbl>

Neal

thank you for your response.  Yes, you are right we as breeders we should 
have more responsibility with breeding etc.  But, there are certain 
variations that do meet the exception.  One being the wool forward of the 
horns.  I have seen this only once in a four horn ewe.  Exceptional in 
coloring, fleece, marking, horns etc but was removed from the reg book and 
as you indicated as she got older the wool disappeared.  Horns are difficult 
especially with 4 horn rams.  I had lambs start with perfect horns, then 
have them removed due to fights, stuck in fences, lost going thru doorways 
then having them as adults not having perfect balanced horns.  I truly 
believe that until the horns are set then can move during injury causing the 
horns to move in a different pattern than intended by their genes.  So, I 
take lots of pictures as suggested by the inspectors when they are young and 
when they have injuries.  Some very nice rams had to be culled due to this 
type of situation.

On the wool type do you not think as we select our Jacobs for their best 
fleeces and bred for this type along with coloring that we have changed the 
fleece type from the older FF Jacobs.  Or is it changed by the care that is 
given to the Jacobs by feed type etc.

Peggy




----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Neal and Louise Grose" <nlgrose at yadtel.net>
To: <jacob-list at jacobsheep.com>
Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 1:14 PM
Subject: Re: [Jacob-list] registration question


> I am going to skip what JSBA has as policy and go right to heart of the
> previous question asked by Peggy. I think part of the reason that we do 
> not
> see more outliers is that most experienced breeders do not send them in 
> for
> registration. Perhaps we would rather cull them than get a reputation with
> substandard animals.
>
> "How do these things happen in an established line of Jacobs Sheep?"
>
> As much as we might like to ignore it, there is variation in these type
> traits and the sudden odd thing popping up is to be expected. This does 
> not
> mean it is desirable, and I do not in the least question the inspectors if
> they fail such animals. Including them in the flockbook would increase the
> odds that we will have more non-standard sheep in the future, which would
> undermine the value of other animals in our flock.
>
> Extreme color percentage is more common as an out-lying trait, but I have
> seen wool forward of the horns as well. Of the two, wool forward of the
> horns is MORE LIKELY to be evidence of cross-breeding, but I would be a
> little skeptical of anyone that automatically regarded this as
> cross-breeding. Neither of these things is the result of a single gene 
> that
> pops out showing the "polluting effect" after many generations.
>
> Excessive white or excessive color are the result of natural variations in
> the piebald expression. In a random sampling of animals without selection
> against the trait, the color range will expand and there will constantly 
> be
> more and more out-liers.
>
> In my experience, selection for greater fineness of fleece and more wool
> quantity will eventually produce some individuals with "bangs". This may
> well shed off after the first year or so.
>
> It might be better to always evaluate our sheep only as mature animals.
> However, we need to remember that our goal with Jacobs is hard to achieve,
> because we are seeking to keep them average within a range. Unlike Merino
> where you can't get the wool too fine, or monster show Suffolks where you
> can't get the ******* too big, we have to select against both extremes.
> Percent color, horn set, wool fineness and weight, etc., all supposed to 
> be
> kinda in the middle.
>
> Neal Grose
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Heather Hettick" <hettick1 at yahoo.com>
> To: <jacob-list at jacobsheep.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 11:41 AM
> Subject: Re: [Jacob-list] registration question
>
>
> >
> > I have really light ewe lamb I?m agonizing over this year.  She 
> > otherwise
> > looks good with nice horns, overall Jacob confirmation and she?s a blue
> > eyed lilac.  I doubt she has much over 10% color though.
> >
> > Doesn?t JSBA have an appendix registration or something like that for 
> > ewes
> > who don?t quite meet the standards or has that changed?
> >
> > Heather Hettick
> > Moonstruck Farm
> > Creston, OH
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Jacob-list mailing list, sponsored by Swallow Lane Farm & Fiberworks
> > Jacob-list at jacobsheep.com
> > http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/jacob-list
> >
>
> _______________________________________________
> Jacob-list mailing list, sponsored by Swallow Lane Farm & Fiberworks
> Jacob-list at jacobsheep.com
> http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/jacob-list
> 

From patchworkfibers at alltel.net  Thu Mar 19 12:37:53 2009
From: patchworkfibers at alltel.net (Linda)
Date: Thu, 19 Mar 2009 12:37:53 -0400
Subject: [Jacob-list] registration question
In-Reply-To: <BAY137-DS369997D4D279BD7F1EE17C7960@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <2009319123753.536399@Linda-PC>

In a JSC communication awhile back, there was a statement regarding waiting to present animals for registration that had wool forward, had not yet developed nose pigment, or ewe lambs that did not yet have firmly attached laterals.  The premise being that certifiers could only judge on what they see. They cannot predict what "might be". That same applies to JSBA applications. 
It is the responsibility of the breeder to present sheep at the right time and in the best light. Your ewe sounds very nice. I hope you resubmitted her for registration when she shed out the wool.

Linda

.  One being the wool forward of the
horns.  I have seen this only once in a four horn ewe.  Exceptional in
coloring, fleece, marking, horns etc but was removed from the reg book and
as you indicated as she got older the wool disappeared.  
Peggy
 
 
 
 
----- Original Message -----
From: "Neal and Louise Grose" <nlgrose at yadtel.net>
To: <jacob-list at jacobsheep.com>
Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 1:14 PM
Subject: Re: [Jacob-list] registration question
 
 
> I am going to skip what JSBA has as policy and go right to heart of the
> previous question asked by Peggy. I think part of the reason that we do
> not
> see more outliers is that most experienced breeders do not send them in
> for
> registration. Perhaps we would rather cull them than get a reputation with
> substandard animals.
>
> "How do these things happen in an established line of Jacobs Sheep?"
>
> As much as we might like to ignore it, there is variation in these type
> traits and the sudden odd thing popping up is to be expected. This does
> not
> mean it is desirable, and I do not in the least question the inspectors if
> they fail such animals. Including them in the flockbook would increase the
> odds that we will have more non-standard sheep in the future, which would
> undermine the value of other animals in our flock.
>
> Extreme color percentage is more common as an out-lying trait, but I have
> seen wool forward of the horns as well. Of the two, wool forward of the
> horns is MORE LIKELY to be evidence of cross-breeding, but I would be a
> little skeptical of anyone that automatically regarded this as
> cross-breeding. Neither of these things is the result of a single gene
> that
> pops out showing the "polluting effect" after many generations.
>
> Excessive white or excessive color are the result of natural variations in
> the piebald expression. In a random sampling of animals without selection
> against the trait, the color range will expand and there will constantly
> be
> more and more out-liers.
>
> In my experience, selection for greater fineness of fleece and more wool
> quantity will eventually produce some individuals with "bangs". This may
> well shed off after the first year or so.
>
> It might be better to always evaluate our sheep only as mature animals.
> However, we need to remember that our goal with Jacobs is hard to achieve,
> because we are seeking to keep them average within a range. Unlike Merino
> where you can't get the wool too fine, or monster show Suffolks where you
> can't get the ******* too big, we have to select against both extremes.
> Percent color, horn set, wool fineness and weight, etc., all supposed to
> be
> kinda in the middle.
>
> Neal Grose
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Heather Hettick" <hettick1 at yahoo.com>
> To: <jacob-list at jacobsheep.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 11:41 AM
> Subject: Re: [Jacob-list] registration question
>
>
> >
> > I have really light ewe lamb I'm agonizing over this year.  She
> > otherwise
> > looks good with nice horns, overall Jacob confirmation and she's a blue
> > eyed lilac.  I doubt she has much over 10% color though.
> >
> > Doesn't JSBA have an appendix registration or something like that for
> > ewes
> > who don't quite meet the standards or has that changed?
> >
> > Heather Hettick
> > Moonstruck Farm
> > Creston, OH
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Jacob-list mailing list, sponsored by Swallow Lane Farm & Fiberworks
> > Jacob-list at jacobsheep.com
> > http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/jacob-list
> >
>
> _______________________________________________
> Jacob-list mailing list, sponsored by Swallow Lane Farm & Fiberworks
> Jacob-list at jacobsheep.com
> http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/jacob-list
>
_______________________________________________
Jacob-list mailing list, sponsored by Swallow Lane Farm & Fiberworks
Jacob-list at jacobsheep.com
http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/jacob-list
? 
http://www.patchworkfibers.com 
Registered Jacob Sheep, Handspun Yarn  
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From pegvanbeek at msn.com  Thu Mar 19 12:44:01 2009
From: pegvanbeek at msn.com (Marguerite Van Beek)
Date: Thu, 19 Mar 2009 12:44:01 -0400
Subject: [Jacob-list] registration question
In-Reply-To: <2009319123753.536399@Linda-PC>
References: <2009319123753.536399@Linda-PC>
Message-ID: <BAY137-DS25AA0EF56D202623BBC80C7960@phx.gbl>

Linda

No, I was a newbie and I had no idea at that time that I could resubmit her.  I sold her to a nice woman in NY.  
Sad   I have learned to ask people on this site what they think about registration, sickness etc There is a wealth of information that comes from this site.  That is why I poised the question.  Jacob's are a strange breed.
You think you have them figured out.  LOL


Peggy

  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Linda<mailto:patchworkfibers at alltel.net> 
  To: Marguerite Van Beek<mailto:pegvanbeek at msn.com> ; jacob-list at jacobsheep.com<mailto:jacob-list at jacobsheep.com> ; Neal and Louise Grose<mailto:nlgrose at yadtel.net> 
  Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2009 12:37 PM
  Subject: Re: [Jacob-list] registration question


  In a JSC communication awhile back, there was a statement regarding waiting to present animals for registration that had wool forward, had not yet developed nose pigment, or ewe lambs that did not yet have firmly attached laterals.  The premise being that certifiers could only judge on what they see. They cannot predict what "might be". That same applies to JSBA applications. 
  It is the responsibility of the breeder to present sheep at the right time and in the best light. Your ewe sounds very nice. I hope you resubmitted her for registration when she shed out the wool.

  Linda


  .  One being the wool forward of the
  horns.  I have seen this only once in a four horn ewe.  Exceptional in
  coloring, fleece, marking, horns etc but was removed from the reg book and
  as you indicated as she got older the wool disappeared.  
  Peggy




  ----- Original Message -----
  From: "Neal and Louise Grose" <nlgrose at yadtel.net>
  To: <jacob-list at jacobsheep.com>
  Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 1:14 PM
  Subject: Re: [Jacob-list] registration question


  > I am going to skip what JSBA has as policy and go right to heart of the
  > previous question asked by Peggy. I think part of the reason that we do
  > not
  > see more outliers is that most experienced breeders do not send them in
  > for
  > registration. Perhaps we would rather cull them than get a reputation with
  > substandard animals.
  >
  > "How do these things happen in an established line of Jacobs Sheep?"
  >
  > As much as we might like to ignore it, there is variation in these type
  > traits and the sudden odd thing popping up is to be expected. This does
  > not
  > mean it is desirable, and I do not in the least question the inspectors if
  > they fail such animals. Including them in the flockbook would increase the
  > odds that we will have more non-standard sheep in the future, which would
  > undermine the value of other animals in our flock.
  >
  > Extreme color percentage is more common as an out-lying trait, but I have
  > seen wool forward of the horns as well. Of the two, wool forward of the
  > horns is MORE LIKELY to be evidence of cross-breeding, but I would be a
  > little skeptical of anyone that automatically regarded this as
  > cross-breeding. Neither of these things is the result of a single gene
  > that
  > pops out showing the "polluting effect" after many generations.
  >
  > Excessive white or excessive color are the result of natural variations in
  > the piebald expression. In a random sampling of animals without selection
  > against the trait, the color range will expand and there will constantly
  > be
  > more and more out-liers.
  >
  > In my experience, selection for greater fineness of fleece and more wool
  > quantity will eventually produce some individuals with "bangs". This may
  > well shed off after the first year or so.
  >
  > It might be better to always evaluate our sheep only as mature animals.
  > However, we need to remember that our goal with Jacobs is hard to achieve,
  > because we are seeking to keep them average within a range. Unlike Merino
  > where you can't get the wool too fine, or monster show Suffolks where you
  > can't get the ******* too big, we have to select against both extremes.
  > Percent color, horn set, wool fineness and weight, etc., all supposed to
  > be
  > kinda in the middle.
  >
  > Neal Grose
  >
  >
  > ----- Original Message -----
  > From: "Heather Hettick" <hettick1 at yahoo.com>
  > To: <jacob-list at jacobsheep.com>
  > Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 11:41 AM
  > Subject: Re: [Jacob-list] registration question
  >
  >
  > >
  > > I have really light ewe lamb I'm agonizing over this year.  She
  > > otherwise
  > > looks good with nice horns, overall Jacob confirmation and she's a blue
  > > eyed lilac.  I doubt she has much over 10% color though.
  > >
  > > Doesn't JSBA have an appendix registration or something like that for
  > > ewes
  > > who don't quite meet the standards or has that changed?
  > >
  > > Heather Hettick
  > > Moonstruck Farm
  > > Creston, OH
  > >
  > >
  > >
  > >
  > >
  > >
  > >
  > > _______________________________________________
  > > Jacob-list mailing list, sponsored by Swallow Lane Farm & Fiberworks
  > > Jacob-list at jacobsheep.com
  > > http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/jacob-list<http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/jacob-list>
  > >
  >
  > _______________________________________________
  > Jacob-list mailing list, sponsored by Swallow Lane Farm & Fiberworks
  > Jacob-list at jacobsheep.com
  > http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/jacob-list<http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/jacob-list>
  >
  _______________________________________________
  Jacob-list mailing list, sponsored by Swallow Lane Farm & Fiberworks
  Jacob-list at jacobsheep.com
  http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/jacob-list<http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/jacob-list>
    
  http://www.patchworkfibers.com<http://www.patchworkfibers.com/> 
  Registered Jacob Sheep, Handspun Yarn  
  _______________________________________________
  Jacob-list mailing list, sponsored by Swallow Lane Farm & Fiberworks
  Jacob-list at jacobsheep.com
  http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/jacob-list
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From nlgrose at yadtel.net  Thu Mar 19 13:03:20 2009
From: nlgrose at yadtel.net (Neal and Louise Grose)
Date: Thu, 19 Mar 2009 13:03:20 -0400
Subject: [Jacob-list] registration question
References: <2009319123753.536399@Linda-PC>
	<BAY137-DS25AA0EF56D202623BBC80C7960@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <13EB8B4F58EC4D97BA3992353C99179B@HAL2>

I think that we should definitely guard against excessively fine wool. The real problem is that things that go along with fineness occur as unexpected consequences. The essential character of Jacob fleece as "open" means that it should not be dense or be too uniform. There needs to be a larger range of fiber diameters and crimp than is desirable in commercial breeds where uniformity is marketable.

On the other hand, this trait is very easily influenced by diet and climate. Access to high quality forage can dramatically increase fleece weights.

Neal
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Marguerite Van Beek 
  To: jacob-list at jacobsheep.com ; Neal and Louise Grose ; Linda 
  Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2009 12:44 PM
  Subject: Re: [Jacob-list] registration question


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From pegvanbeek at msn.com  Thu Mar 19 13:08:37 2009
From: pegvanbeek at msn.com (Marguerite Van Beek)
Date: Thu, 19 Mar 2009 13:08:37 -0400
Subject: [Jacob-list] registration question
In-Reply-To: <2009319123753.536399@Linda-PC><BAY137-DS25AA0EF56D202623BBC80C7960@phx.gbl>
	<13EB8B4F58EC4D97BA3992353C99179B@HAL2>
References: <2009319123753.536399@Linda-PC><BAY137-DS25AA0EF56D202623BBC80C7960@phx.gbl>
	<13EB8B4F58EC4D97BA3992353C99179B@HAL2>
Message-ID: <BAY137-DS7E544001062262E892C19C7960@phx.gbl>

Neal

I asked that question because I purchased a ewe that had very course fleece, great horns, markings.  After two years her fleece went from being course to a more open fleece.  I didn't know it would change.

Peggy
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Neal and Louise Grose<mailto:nlgrose at yadtel.net> 
  To: jacob-list<mailto:jacob-list at jacobsheep.com> 
  Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2009 1:03 PM
  Subject: Re: [Jacob-list] registration question


  ? 
  I think that we should definitely guard against excessively fine wool. The real problem is that things that go along with fineness occur as unexpected consequences. The essential character of Jacob fleece as "open" means that it should not be dense or be too uniform. There needs to be a larger range of fiber diameters and crimp than is desirable in commercial breeds where uniformity is marketable.

  On the other hand, this trait is very easily influenced by diet and climate. Access to high quality forage can dramatically increase fleece weights.

  Neal
    ----- Original Message ----- 
    From: Marguerite Van Beek<mailto:pegvanbeek at msn.com> 
    To: jacob-list at jacobsheep.com<mailto:jacob-list at jacobsheep.com> ; Neal and Louise Grose<mailto:nlgrose at yadtel.net> ; Linda<mailto:patchworkfibers at alltel.net> 
    Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2009 12:44 PM
    Subject: Re: [Jacob-list] registration question



  _______________________________________________
  Jacob-list mailing list, sponsored by Swallow Lane Farm & Fiberworks
  Jacob-list at jacobsheep.com
  http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/jacob-list
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From RNS1260 at comcast.net  Thu Mar 19 13:54:16 2009
From: RNS1260 at comcast.net (RNS1260 at comcast.net)
Date: Thu, 19 Mar 2009 17:54:16 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [Jacob-list] Blue eyes
Message-ID: <757804288.11049201237485256135.JavaMail.root@sz0160a.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net>




<I think you are?incorrect about all?the problems an albino has. Albino rabbits, also called, Ruby Eyed Whites, have been raised for many years and are probably the largest numbered color variety there is. They do quite well and have?no health problems other than their eyes being sensitive to light. 
?? There is an organization called American Livestock Breeds Conservancy that is for people who want to preserve rare breeds of livestock. Now why would they want to do that? Jacobs are one of them. 
?Carl> 



I have sensitive blue eyes also. I hope they don't want to get rid of me.? (? : LOL 



Cheryl 

Rise 'N' Shine Farm 

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From runzicker at verizon.net  Thu Mar 19 14:19:18 2009
From: runzicker at verizon.net (R. Unzicker)
Date: Thu, 19 Mar 2009 14:19:18 -0400
Subject: [Jacob-list] Fw: Life on the farm
Message-ID: <43DC62275DDC463BA8DD200E18F842DF@homepc>

If you want to see a creative shepherd who must not have enough to do, check out the sight below!   Did I see a glimpse of a Jacob in one of the shots  -  at least a spotted sheep? 
Royal
 
 

Click on the link below to see:

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D2FX9rviEhw

 

 

 
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From pegvanbeek at msn.com  Thu Mar 19 14:23:53 2009
From: pegvanbeek at msn.com (Marguerite Van Beek)
Date: Thu, 19 Mar 2009 14:23:53 -0400
Subject: [Jacob-list] Fw: Life on the farm
In-Reply-To: <43DC62275DDC463BA8DD200E18F842DF@homepc>
References: <43DC62275DDC463BA8DD200E18F842DF@homepc>
Message-ID: <BAY137-DS72F90AFE7D0DBA2ABAF89C7960@phx.gbl>

Royal

Thank you!!!  Fantastic!!!  Too creative for me to even comprehend on how they did that!!1

Peggy
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: R. Unzicker<mailto:runzicker at verizon.net> 
  To: Jacob-list at jacobsheep.com<mailto:Jacob-list at jacobsheep.com> 
  Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2009 2:19 PM
  Subject: [Jacob-list] Fw: Life on the farm


  If you want to see a creative shepherd who must not have enough to do, check out the sight below!   Did I see a glimpse of a Jacob in one of the shots  -  at least a spotted sheep? 
  Royal
   
   

  Click on the link below to see:

   

  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D2FX9rviEhw<http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D2FX9rviEhw>

   

   

   

  _______________________________________________
  Jacob-list mailing list, sponsored by Swallow Lane Farm & Fiberworks
  Jacob-list at jacobsheep.com
  http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/jacob-list
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From patchworkfibers at alltel.net  Thu Mar 19 14:36:29 2009
From: patchworkfibers at alltel.net (Linda)
Date: Thu, 19 Mar 2009 14:36:29 -0400
Subject: [Jacob-list] registration question
In-Reply-To: <BAY137-DS25AA0EF56D202623BBC80C7960@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <2009319143629.567540@Linda-PC>

Hopefully, your bringing the question up will help some newbies learn from your example.

Linda


Linda

No, I was a newbie and I had no idea at that time that I could resubmit her.  I sold her to a nice woman in NY. 
Sad 
  I have learned to ask people on this site what they think about registration, sickness etc There is a wealth of information that comes from this site.  That is why I poised the question.  Jacob's are a strange breed.
You think you have them figured out.  LOL


Peggy


? 
http://www.patchworkfibers.com 
Registered Jacob Sheep, Handspun Yarn  
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From info at brenalanfarm.com  Sat Mar 21 00:30:46 2009
From: info at brenalanfarm.com (Brenalan Farm)
Date: Fri, 20 Mar 2009 21:30:46 -0700
Subject: [Jacob-list] 2009 Lambs have arrived
Message-ID: <B87B86BAB6634BEAB47A8C138EE82A14@brenalan>

Our lambs are here and can be seen at www.brenalanfarm.com.

Best wishes to all of our J list friends for a great class of 2009 lambs!

Brenda
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From gotothewhip at aol.com  Sat Mar 21 21:28:14 2009
From: gotothewhip at aol.com (gotothewhip at aol.com)
Date: Sat, 21 Mar 2009 21:28:14 -0400
Subject: [Jacob-list] OCD in Jacobs
Message-ID: <8CB78A49ACB94F8-960-3650@WEBMAIL-DC08.sysops.aol.com>

Can anyone direct me on how to find out more about OCD in multi horned sheep?? I have a 2 week old lamb, that has been having some problems.. He gets better everyday, but a very educated person and I spoke of OCD and its symptoms....This lamb has a few of them.? We are going to the vet on Monday as the vet suspects that he had a pinched nerve in utero or during the birth process.? HE dodnt walk until he was a week old, and now runs and plays, but has a wobble to him.? GO figure.. he is the the most stunning, perfectly market, incredible structured ram, with 4 wide spaced horns, a real stud prospect as he is outside bloodlines of my original flock... SIGH.....Vet may also opt for accupuncture as well.? We will get a Xray of the back, and possibly the skull.

Any input... Feel free to reply to me privatley if needed

Jennifer Tucker


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From patchworkfibers at alltel.net  Sat Mar 21 21:38:00 2009
From: patchworkfibers at alltel.net (Linda)
Date: Sat, 21 Mar 2009 21:38:00 -0400
Subject: [Jacob-list] OCD in Jacobs
In-Reply-To: <8CB78A49ACB94F8-960-3650@WEBMAIL-DC08.sysops.aol.com>
Message-ID: <200932121380.316057@Linda-PC>

Fred Horak is the one to talk to. I believe that OCD is progressive and doesn't usually show up so early, but I might be misremembering.

Linda

Can anyone direct me on how to find out more about OCD in multi horned sheep?  I have a 2 week old lamb, that has been having some problems.. He gets better everyday, but a very educated person and I spoke of OCD and its symptoms....This lamb has a few of them.  We are going to the vet on Monday as the vet suspects that he had a pinched nerve in utero or during the birth process.  HE dodnt walk until he was a week old, and now runs and plays, but has a wobble to him.  GO figure.. he is the the most stunning, perfectly market, incredible structured ram, with 4 wide spaced horns, a real stud prospect as he is outside bloodlines of my original flock... SIGH.....Vet may also opt for accupuncture as well.  We will get a Xray of the back, and possibly the skull.

 Any input... Feel free to reply to me privatley if needed

 Jennifer Tucker




 
A Bad Credit Score is 600 or Below. See yours in just 2 easy steps!
? 
http://www.patchworkfibers.com 
Registered Jacob Sheep, Handspun Yarn  
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From gotothewhip at aol.com  Sat Mar 21 21:58:50 2009
From: gotothewhip at aol.com (gotothewhip at aol.com)
Date: Sat, 21 Mar 2009 21:58:50 -0400
Subject: [Jacob-list] OCD in Jacobs
In-Reply-To: <200932121380.316057@Linda-PC>
Message-ID: <8CB78A8E14F52C3-1330-35EA@webmail-db09.sysops.aol.com>

The person I spoke with today, did not at all imply that this was an OCD case, i am the one who made the weak connection.. i hope this is not the case.? They told me it did not sound right as my lamb has gotten better rather than worse.? Initially, we didnt think this lamb would make it, as it was tubed for the first day.. he is now doing well, and has absolutley stole my husbands heart.....I dont know if he will handle if this is fatal.



-----Original Message-----
From: Linda <patchworkfibers at alltel.net>
To: gotothewhip at aol.com; jacob-list at jacobsheep.com
Sent: Sat, 21 Mar 2009 7:38 pm
Subject: Re: [Jacob-list] OCD in Jacobs



Fred Horak is the one to talk to. I believe that OCD is progressive and doesn't usually show up so early, but I might be misremembering.

?

Linda

?

Can anyone direct me on how to find out more about OCD in multi horned sheep?? I have a 2 week old lamb, that has been having some problems.. He gets better everyday, but a very educated person and I spoke of OCD and its symptoms....This lamb has a few of them.? We are going to the vet on Monday as the vet suspects that he had a pinched nerve in utero or during the birth process.? HE dodnt walk until he was a week old, and now runs and plays, but has a wobble to him.? GO figure.. he is the the most stunning, perfectly market, incredible structured ram, with 4 wide spaced horns, a real stud prospect as he is outside bloodlines of my original flock... SIGH.....Vet may also opt for accupuncture as well.? We will get a Xray of the back, and possibly the skull.

Any input... Feel free to reply to me privatley if needed

Jennifer Tucker






? A Bad Credit Score is 600 or Below. See yours in just 2 easy steps!
??
http://www.patchworkfibers.com 
Registered Jacob Sheep, Handspun Yarn ?



_______________________________________________
Jacob-list mailing list, sponsored by Swallow Lane Farm & Fiberworks
Jacob-list at jacobsheep.com
http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/jacob-list

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From lasell at lasell.org  Sun Mar 22 09:44:46 2009
From: lasell at lasell.org (Lasell J. Bartlett)
Date: Sun, 22 Mar 2009 09:44:46 -0400
Subject: [Jacob-list] unusual for us
Message-ID: <130F6698-2B18-4DA2-B340-F7D57B19872D@lasell.org>

We were VERY surprised this morning by a lovely set of twins from  
Sasha. VERY surprised because she has been nursing a really nice ram  
lamb for the past 10 days.

I now know who his real mother is, as fortunately she is the only  
"other" ewe who lambed that day. However Sasha has been intent on  
rejecting the newborns because she already has a lamb. Anyone ever  
run into this dilemma?

We have moved the ram lamb into the barn to share a stall with mother  
and two lambs who survived from triplet birth, (third was born  
without an anus), and another ram lamb who has managed to sneak some  
milk but was a rejected twin so is very much enjoying some bottle  
milk. I can only hope that the 10 day old lamb will start thinking  
the bottle is a good idea, and that Sasha will take her new lambs. We  
did hold her while the new lambs got some milk. I had been thinking  
it would be colostrum but maybe not if she's been nursing all along?????

So, can I keep hopeful that the 10 day old will take to the bottle?

Will Sasha produce colostrum even though she's been nursing for 10  
days before giving birth?

Oy. And here I'd thought lambing time was just about manageable again.

Lasell Bartlett
Fine Fettle Farm
Newbury VT


From fourhornfarm at verizon.net  Sun Mar 22 12:34:42 2009
From: fourhornfarm at verizon.net (fourhornfarm)
Date: Sun, 22 Mar 2009 12:34:42 -0400
Subject: [Jacob-list] unusual for us
References: <130F6698-2B18-4DA2-B340-F7D57B19872D@lasell.org>
Message-ID: <D7087CF0C62F48ABAC87C7D5DEB3A234@DollyLama>

Lasell,
    I think you should give her new lambs colostrum a.s.a.p. for a couple of 
days. If she had any colostrum the other lamb would have gotten it.
    Sometimes ewes want a baby so bad they will steal one if the mother 
doesn't go away from the rest of the flock to have her lambs, which is what 
ours usually do, but we have had a ewe try to steal another's lamb before.
Good Luck,
Carl
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Lasell J. Bartlett" <lasell at lasell.org>
To: <Jacob-list at jacobsheep.com>
Sent: Sunday, March 22, 2009 9:44 AM
Subject: [Jacob-list] unusual for us


> We were VERY surprised this morning by a lovely set of twins from  Sasha. 
> VERY surprised because she has been nursing a really nice ram  lamb for 
> the past 10 days.
>
> I now know who his real mother is, as fortunately she is the only  "other" 
> ewe who lambed that day. However Sasha has been intent on  rejecting the 
> newborns because she already has a lamb. Anyone ever  run into this 
> dilemma?
>
> We have moved the ram lamb into the barn to share a stall with mother  and 
> two lambs who survived from triplet birth, (third was born  without an 
> anus), and another ram lamb who has managed to sneak some  milk but was a 
> rejected twin so is very much enjoying some bottle  milk. I can only hope 
> that the 10 day old lamb will start thinking  the bottle is a good idea, 
> and that Sasha will take her new lambs. We  did hold her while the new 
> lambs got some milk. I had been thinking  it would be colostrum but maybe 
> not if she's been nursing all along?????
>
> So, can I keep hopeful that the 10 day old will take to the bottle?
>
> Will Sasha produce colostrum even though she's been nursing for 10  days 
> before giving birth?
>
> Oy. And here I'd thought lambing time was just about manageable again.
>
> Lasell Bartlett
> Fine Fettle Farm
> Newbury VT
>
> _______________________________________________
> Jacob-list mailing list, sponsored by Swallow Lane Farm & Fiberworks
> Jacob-list at jacobsheep.com
> http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/jacob-list
> 


From crackerdst at surfglobal.net  Mon Mar 23 10:57:02 2009
From: crackerdst at surfglobal.net (crackerdst)
Date: Mon, 23 Mar 2009 10:57:02 -0400
Subject: [Jacob-list] Jacob-list Digest, Vol 56, Issue 34
In-Reply-To: <mailman.5.1237738531.14372.jacob-list@jacobsheep.com>
References: <mailman.5.1237738531.14372.jacob-list@jacobsheep.com>
Message-ID: <61d9a4c4d45e2f62890af1245ca81f07@surfglobal.net>

Hi, 
 Anyone have any info on tanning hides at home ?. We had a ram die and we
have the pelt . I have it hanging in the barn vertically . It's still below
freezing here so it's frozen stiff . I'd like to preserve it best I can .
Can't afford to send it out. I have some instructions from a book but they
are sketchy . Anyone out there with some first hand experience ? 
                                                       Donna in N.VT

From MickKS at hiram.edu  Mon Mar 23 12:52:28 2009
From: MickKS at hiram.edu (Mick, Kimberly S.)
Date: Mon, 23 Mar 2009 12:52:28 -0400
Subject: [Jacob-list] bottle-fed lamb questions
Message-ID: <267834C5E852794AB266657E6240825D012EE27C@hiramr.hiram.edu>

Still new to raising sheep...we had twins born 2/7/09 and two weeks
later one of the twins got out of the jug and was badly hurt, we think
by her father.

She had swelling of the brain, a bloody nose, and was unconscious. We
nursed her back to health and have been bottle feeding her since.

We've had to keep her in a separate stall because the other females
mistreat her. We sold her father. In the meantime, she is physically
healthy but extremely slow, in many ways. Since I've never bottle-fed, I
don't know what to expect.  She hasn't learned to eat hay or grass and
nibbles on creep and cat food (she got into the cat's dish).  It took
some time to find a vet but we did. He gave her a shot to lessen any
swelling of the brain, if there was any at that point, and a shot to
increase her appetite, which would only last for a day or two. The only
time she perks up is when we leave the room and then she comes running
and yelling. She's afraid of the other sheep.  How much of this is
normal for bottle-fed babies and how much is from her accident?  Will
she learn to eat grass and hay, but perhaps just later than the others?
While the others run, jump, and play, she just hangs out with my husband
and me.  We both work so she has a lonely life during the day and has
her bottle early in the morning and spends her evenings with us. She
appears to have no interest in mixing with her own or eating hay or
grass. Suggestions?

 

 

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From Jacobflock at aol.com  Mon Mar 23 14:54:33 2009
From: Jacobflock at aol.com (Jacobflock at aol.com)
Date: Mon, 23 Mar 2009 14:54:33 EDT
Subject: [Jacob-list] registration question
Message-ID: <c0e.48a622f5.36f934e9@aol.com>

Neal makes a point:   "I think part of the reason that we do not  
see more outliers is that most experienced breeders do not send them in for  
registration. Perhaps we would rather cull them than get a reputation with  
substandard animals."  
 
Breeders selectively register animals and, even in the case of twins, one  
might be registered, the other, not meeting the standard, is not.  The  
registered sheep is assumed to be a true Jacob.  The offspring of  registered parents 
is assumed to be a true Jacob. The occasional cull lamb is  the non-Jacob and 
not to be registered.  Cull lambs do not come from a  true Jacob breed gene 
pool; the definition of "breed" seems to preclude  that.
 
When breeding to a standard as in "standardized breed", observable  
differences from the "standard" are minimized.  Thus the chances  of getting an "out of 
bounds offspring" drops to one in four,  eight,  sixteen as generations move 
forward.  The "standardized breed" becomes  cookie cutter with 
 
What is observed by the breeder, especially in the case of the  neonate, is 
not always the true genotype of  the lamb presented for registration as a 
Jacob.  The picture of  the lamb  presented to the panel of volunteers who make 
such  judgements is really minimal information and failure to pass the  
registration process is often catastrophic for the breeder and a very hard call  for 
the inspector.  The task for the breeder is heavy, the task for the  reviewing 
volunteers is no less.
 
For example, the sex linked expression of the "hornless gene" which  produces 
the aberrant horn that is loosely anchored may look likke a four horn  ewe 
lamb but in reality is not - the extra long tail which should  be hock length 
and have sixteen vertebrae gets docked  -  the ticking  gene will take years to 
express itself  -  these all require breeder  time, attention and allegiance 
to the breed.
 
Neal goes on to say: "As much as we might like to ignore it, there is  
variation in these type 
traits and the sudden odd thing popping up is to be  expected. This does not 
mean it is desirable, and I do not in the least  question the inspectors if 
they fail such animals. Including them in the  flockbook would increase the 
odds that we will have more non-standard sheep  in the future, which would 
undermine the value of other animals in our  flock."
 
I'm not sure a "standardized breed" would expect to have many odd  things 
popping out as variation is reduced through limited sire flocks and  selection to 
the standard.  The rub is often the amount of variation to be  accepted, the 
value to the gene pool of the flock and breed; value is a relative  term and 
how we perceive value.   

For example, sit on the  porch and watch the sun rise; sensually appealing to 
most and the subject of  song and poetry.  The reality is I am speeding at 
about 500 miles  per hour toward the sun, held in place by gravity.  Same event 
but not  often found in song and poetry. Reality and perceived reality or as 
in the  song -  "you can't have one without the other".
 
Fred Horak
St. Jude's Farm
1165 E. Lucas Rd.
Lucas, TX 75002
 
 
 
 I am going to skip what JSBA has as policy and go right to  heart of the 
previous question asked by Peggy. I think part of the reason  that we do not 
see more outliers is that most experienced breeders do not  send them in for 
registration. Perhaps we would rather cull them than get a  reputation with 
substandard animals.

"How do these things happen in  an established line of Jacobs Sheep?"

As much as we might like to ignore  it, there is variation in these type 
traits and the sudden odd thing popping  up is to be expected. This does not 
mean it is desirable, and I do not in  the least question the inspectors if 
they fail such animals. Including them  in the flockbook would increase the 
odds that we will have more non-standard  sheep in the future, which would 
undermine the value of other animals in our  flock.

Extreme color percentage is more common as an out-lying trait, but  I have 
seen wool forward of the horns as well. Of the two, wool forward of  the 
horns is MORE LIKELY to be evidence of cross-breeding, but I would be a  
little skeptical of anyone that automatically regarded this as  
cross-breeding. Neither of these things is the result of a single gene that  
pops out showing the "polluting effect" after many  generations.

Excessive white or excessive color are the result of natural  variations in 
the piebald expression. In a random sampling of animals  without selection 
against the trait, the color range will expand and there  will constantly be 
more and more out-liers.

In my experience,  selection for greater fineness of fleece and more wool 
quantity will  eventually produce some individuals with "bangs". This may 
well shed off  after the first year or so.

It might be better to always evaluate our  sheep only as mature animals. 
However, we need to remember that our goal  with Jacobs is hard to achieve, 
because we are seeking to keep them average  within a range. Unlike Merino 
where you can't get the wool too fine, or  monster show Suffolks where you 
can't get the ******* too big, we have to  select against both extremes. 
Percent color, horn set, wool fineness and  weight, etc., all supposed to be 
kinda in the middle.

Neal  Grose


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Heather Hettick"  <hettick1 at yahoo.com>
To: <jacob-list at jacobsheep.com>
Sent:  Wednesday, March 18, 2009 11:41 AM
Subject: Re: [Jacob-list] registration  question


>
> I have really light ewe lamb I?m agonizing over  this year.  She otherwise 
> looks good with nice horns, overall  Jacob confirmation and she?s a blue 
> eyed lilac.  I doubt she has  much over 10% color though.
>
> Doesn?t JSBA have an appendix  registration or something like that for ewes 
> who don?t quite meet the  standards or has that changed?
>
> Heather Hettick
>  Moonstruck Farm
> Creston,  OH
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>  _______________________________________________
> Jacob-list mailing list,  sponsored by Swallow Lane Farm & Fiberworks
>  Jacob-list at jacobsheep.com
>  http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/jacob-list
>  

_______________________________________________
Jacob-list mailing  list, sponsored by Swallow Lane Farm &  Fiberworks
Jacob-list at jacobsheep.com
http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/jacob-list

**************Feeling the pinch at the grocery store?  Make dinner for $10 or 
less. (http://food.aol.com/frugal-feasts?ncid=emlcntusfood00000001)
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From kbarrett at bmi.net  Mon Mar 23 15:01:47 2009
From: kbarrett at bmi.net (Kate Barrett)
Date: Mon, 23 Mar 2009 12:01:47 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Jacob-list] OCD
Message-ID: <1136.4.242.141.3.1237834907.squirrel@cx9.atricaserver.com>

I had two ram lambs that I suspected had OCD from similar symptoms. Time
and expense prevented me from investigating further. It was simpler for me
to cull the ram and the ewe that were producing these lambs.  Both lambs
that had the symptoms were weak at birth, but improved to a point. They
never developed as quickly as the other lambs, and although they could run
and play they could not really jump and often fell, and remained still for
long periods of time. At about 6 weeks I had to have the first one put
down. He suddenly went down and could not get back up for a period of over
6 hours. The second one lasted about 2 months with careful care, but
disappeared one night...just a small pile of wool was what was left. It
was odd because I have never before lost a lamb to predators...but since
he was probably unable to move, and was still very small, it could have
been eagles, hawks,owls, coyotes, foxes....I just will never know. I had
hoped both these rams would improve as they got older, but the opposite
was true.
At the very least I would be extremely cautious about selecting this ram
as breeding material. And yes, the two I lost were 4 horned ram lambs that
were phenotypically perfect. They were also very sweet lambs...most
probably due to all the extra care they got as youngsters. I am pretty
sure this extra care and coddling does not produce a safe breeding ram.  I
have found that breeding rams should not be allowed to be coddled or
handled other than in a way that promotes extreme respect for their
Shepard.
Kate Barrett
Ruby Peak Jacobs


From info at brenalanfarm.com  Mon Mar 23 15:14:26 2009
From: info at brenalanfarm.com (Brenalan Farm)
Date: Mon, 23 Mar 2009 12:14:26 -0700
Subject: [Jacob-list] non-standard Jacobs
Message-ID: <76B128D3125044DAADA890CC944B4181@brenalan>

Lots of good points are being made. As disappointing as it is to have a ram not register, it is far more disappointing to find a gene showing up in future generations that could ruin many lambs. I have had two dogs from lines that were clear of hip dysplasia for several generations turn up with bad hips. Aside from wondering how I could have such bad luck... it convinces me that it is very important to keep the gene pool as clean as possible regarding deviation from the standard. I came to own a Romney/Corrie cross by accident. I've bred her to the Jacob ram so she could pay room and board with meat lambs. So far all but one of 6 has had Jacob eye patches and about 75+% black on a hefty frame. This year one was closer to 50/50 with big patches on eyes and nose PLUS 2 horns! I liked her ewe lamb's fleece last year (still do) so kept her and crossed her to the new J ram. Her lamb is about 70% white with 3 big face patches, black neck, a handful of spots mostly on the front half and 2 horns. The only sign this lamb isn't purebred is a little wool forward of horns. I think there are judges in some of our all-breed shows who'd give this guy the Jacob ribbon. But he will go to a freezer. We have one 3/4 J ewe lamb that is almost completely black with just a little white on the head. I think I am going to keep her for her fleece and cross her to a Jacob in the future just to see what happens.
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From fourhornfarm at verizon.net  Mon Mar 23 16:57:02 2009
From: fourhornfarm at verizon.net (fourhornfarm)
Date: Mon, 23 Mar 2009 16:57:02 -0400
Subject: [Jacob-list] bottle-fed lamb questions
References: <267834C5E852794AB266657E6240825D012EE27C@hiramr.hiram.edu>
Message-ID: <EB55BCEFFBB5462AA7ED9891CAF1755C@DollyLama>

Dear still new to raising sheep,

       Why did you leave the ewe and her lambs in a jug for two weeks? If there was a problem, that is a reason, but that is the reason for your problem with the lamb. If left separated from the flock for too long the flock will not accept the ewe or her lambs back into the flock without re-establishing the pecking order, which involves a lot of head butting. 
        I would not keep a ewe and her lambs in a jug for more than a day or two unless there was some serious problem. It also helps to have your jug where the rest of the flock can still be in contact with the ewe and her lambs through the fencing. This makes re-introduction to the flock easier.
        My recommendation as far as re-introducing the lamb back to being a lamb would be to make it a pen in the sheep barn and feed it it's bottle out there. It will soon want to play with the other lambs and it will have some company while you are all at work. I don't know what part of the country you live in, but if it is warm enough for the grass to start growing, let the lamb follow you around the yard in the evenings and it will start nibbling on grass. Watch out what flowers it nibbles on as some flowers and yews are toxic. 
    Hope this helps a little. I'm sure others will have more help.

Carl
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Mick, Kimberly S. 
  To: jacob-list at jacobsheep.com 
  Sent: Monday, March 23, 2009 12:52 PM
  Subject: [Jacob-list] bottle-fed lamb questions


  Still new to raising sheep.we had twins born 2/7/09 and two weeks later one of the twins got out of the jug and was badly hurt, we think by her father.

  She had swelling of the brain, a bloody nose, and was unconscious. We nursed her back to health and have been bottle feeding her since.

  We've had to keep her in a separate stall because the other females mistreat her. We sold her father. In the meantime, she is physically healthy but extremely slow, in many ways. Since I've never bottle-fed, I don't know what to expect.  She hasn't learned to eat hay or grass and nibbles on creep and cat food (she got into the cat's dish).  It took some time to find a vet but we did. He gave her a shot to lessen any swelling of the brain, if there was any at that point, and a shot to increase her appetite, which would only last for a day or two. The only time she perks up is when we leave the room and then she comes running and yelling. She's afraid of the other sheep.  How much of this is normal for bottle-fed babies and how much is from her accident?  Will she learn to eat grass and hay, but perhaps just later than the others?  While the others run, jump, and play, she just hangs out with my husband and me.  We both work so she has a lonely life during the day and has her bottle early in the morning and spends her evenings with us. She appears to have no interest in mixing with her own or eating hay or grass. Suggestions?

   

   



------------------------------------------------------------------------------


  _______________________________________________
  Jacob-list mailing list, sponsored by Swallow Lane Farm & Fiberworks
  Jacob-list at jacobsheep.com
  http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/jacob-list
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From schmick54 at aol.com  Mon Mar 23 22:10:53 2009
From: schmick54 at aol.com (schmick54 at aol.com)
Date: Mon, 23 Mar 2009 22:10:53 -0400
Subject: [Jacob-list] OCD in Jacobs
In-Reply-To: <200932121380.316057@Linda-PC>
Message-ID: <8CB7A3CE4FA412C-5E0-3DF2@webmail-dh27.sysops.aol.com>


 I have seen it in lambs of about four months of age, but a breeder I know has seen it as early as a few days old.It usually occurs when the horn set starts to develop more and puts pressure on the brain stem.

Mick


 


 

-----Original Message-----
From: Linda <patchworkfibers at alltel.net>
To: gotothewhip at aol.com; jacob-list at jacobsheep.com
Sent: Sat, 21 Mar 2009 7:38 pm
Subject: Re: [Jacob-list] OCD in Jacobs












Fred Horak is the one to talk to. I believe that OCD is progressive and doesn't usually show up so early, but I might be misremembering.


?


Linda


?


Can anyone direct me on how to find out more about OCD in multi horned sheep?? I have a 2 week old lamb, that has been having some problems.. He gets better everyday, but a very educated person and I spoke of OCD and its symptoms....This lamb has a few of them.? We are going to the vet on Monday as the vet suspects that he had a pinched nerve in utero or during the birth process.? HE dodnt walk until he was a week old, and now runs and plays, but has a wobble to him.? GO figure.. he is the the most stunning, perfectly market, incredible structured ram, with 4 wide spaced horns, a real stud prospect as he is outside bloodlines of my original flock... SIGH.....Vet may also opt for accupuncture as well.? We will get a Xray of the back, and possibly the skull.

 Any input... Feel free to reply to me privatley if needed

 Jennifer Tucker







?


A Bad Credit Score is 600 or Below. See yours in just 2 easy steps!


??

http://www.patchworkfibers.com 

Registered Jacob Sheep, Handspun Yarn ?


 





_______________________________________________
Jacob-list mailing list, sponsored by Swallow Lane Farm & Fiberworks
Jacob-list at jacobsheep.com
http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/jacob-list



 

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From mudranch at gmail.com  Tue Mar 24 12:54:25 2009
From: mudranch at gmail.com (Joan Gross)
Date: Tue, 24 Mar 2009 09:54:25 -0700
Subject: [Jacob-list] Jacob-list Digest, Vol 56, Issue 37
In-Reply-To: <mailman.9.1237911320.36436.jacob-list@jacobsheep.com>
References: <mailman.9.1237911320.36436.jacob-list@jacobsheep.com>
Message-ID: <f1982a790903240954l46bd2118q487b2a85caa0abe5@mail.gmail.com>

Re: Bottlefed Lambs

We have two ewe lambs that were born in the beginning of March that we've
had to bottle feed due to a pregnant mama stealing a new mama's lamb.  She
then denied both of hers when they were born a few days later.  I could have
kept one of them with the mama but chose to have two so they'd keep
eachother company, so far it's worked like a charm

My advise is like Carl said, keep them in a pen in the barn so that they
know where they belong and so they become as part of the flock.  My lambs
were kept in the barn at night in a separate pen until they were big enough
to run away from a butting ewe.  Now they are in the stalls with the rest of
the flock and doing great.  They've also been out to pasture with the flock
and are now playing with the other lambs due to them being kept in the barn
with the other lambs at night.... They've made friends.  For the first
couple of weeks though, I would take them for walks through the pasture and
they would taste things as they walked.  It is natural for the lambs to eat
the grass and forage, give them a chance to do so and they'll quickly adapt.

Good luck!

Joan Gross
www.mudranchjacobs.com

On Tue, Mar 24, 2009 at 9:15 AM, <jacob-list-request at jacobsheep.com> wrote:

> Send Jacob-list mailing list submissions to
>        jacob-list at jacobsheep.com
>
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
>        http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/jacob-list
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>
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of Jacob-list digest..."
>
>
> Today's Topics:
>
>   1. Re: bottle-fed lamb questions (fourhornfarm)
>   2. Re: OCD in Jacobs (schmick54 at aol.com)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Mon, 23 Mar 2009 16:57:02 -0400
> From: "fourhornfarm" <fourhornfarm at verizon.net>
> Subject: Re: [Jacob-list] bottle-fed lamb questions
> To: "Mick, Kimberly S." <MickKS at hiram.edu>,
>        <jacob-list at jacobsheep.com>
> Message-ID: <EB55BCEFFBB5462AA7ED9891CAF1755C at DollyLama>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> Dear still new to raising sheep,
>
>       Why did you leave the ewe and her lambs in a jug for two weeks? If
> there was a problem, that is a reason, but that is the reason for your
> problem with the lamb. If left separated from the flock for too long the
> flock will not accept the ewe or her lambs back into the flock without
> re-establishing the pecking order, which involves a lot of head butting.
>        I would not keep a ewe and her lambs in a jug for more than a day or
> two unless there was some serious problem. It also helps to have your jug
> where the rest of the flock can still be in contact with the ewe and her
> lambs through the fencing. This makes re-introduction to the flock easier.
>        My recommendation as far as re-introducing the lamb back to being a
> lamb would be to make it a pen in the sheep barn and feed it it's bottle out
> there. It will soon want to play with the other lambs and it will have some
> company while you are all at work. I don't know what part of the country you
> live in, but if it is warm enough for the grass to start growing, let the
> lamb follow you around the yard in the evenings and it will start nibbling
> on grass. Watch out what flowers it nibbles on as some flowers and yews are
> toxic.
>    Hope this helps a little. I'm sure others will have more help.
>
> Carl
>  ----- Original Message -----
>  From: Mick, Kimberly S.
>  To: jacob-list at jacobsheep.com
>  Sent: Monday, March 23, 2009 12:52 PM
>  Subject: [Jacob-list] bottle-fed lamb questions
>
>
>  Still new to raising sheep.we had twins born 2/7/09 and two weeks later
> one of the twins got out of the jug and was badly hurt, we think by her
> father.
>
>  She had swelling of the brain, a bloody nose, and was unconscious. We
> nursed her back to health and have been bottle feeding her since.
>
>  We've had to keep her in a separate stall because the other females
> mistreat her. We sold her father. In the meantime, she is physically healthy
> but extremely slow, in many ways. Since I've never bottle-fed, I don't know
> what to expect.  She hasn't learned to eat hay or grass and nibbles on creep
> and cat food (she got into the cat's dish).  It took some time to find a vet
> but we did. He gave her a shot to lessen any swelling of the brain, if there
> was any at that point, and a shot to increase her appetite, which would only
> last for a day or two. The only time she perks up is when we leave the room
> and then she comes running and yelling. She's afraid of the other sheep.
>  How much of this is normal for bottle-fed babies and how much is from her
> accident?  Will she learn to eat grass and hay, but perhaps just later than
> the others?  While the others run, jump, and play, she just hangs out with
> my husband and me.  We both work so she has a lonely life during the day and
> has her
>  bottle early in the morning and spends her evenings with us. She appears
> to have no interest in mixing with her own or eating hay or grass.
> Suggestions?
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>  _______________________________________________
>  Jacob-list mailing list, sponsored by Swallow Lane Farm & Fiberworks
>  Jacob-list at jacobsheep.com
>  http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/jacob-list
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> >
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Mon, 23 Mar 2009 22:10:53 -0400
> From: schmick54 at aol.com
> Subject: Re: [Jacob-list] OCD in Jacobs
> To: patchworkfibers at alltel.net, gotothewhip at aol.com,
>        jacob-list at jacobsheep.com
> Message-ID: <8CB7A3CE4FA412C-5E0-3DF2 at webmail-dh27.sysops.aol.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
>
>  I have seen it in lambs of about four months of age, but a breeder I know
> has seen it as early as a few days old.It usually occurs when the horn set
> starts to develop more and puts pressure on the brain stem.
>
> Mick
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Linda <patchworkfibers at alltel.net>
> To: gotothewhip at aol.com; jacob-list at jacobsheep.com
> Sent: Sat, 21 Mar 2009 7:38 pm
> Subject: Re: [Jacob-list] OCD in Jacobs
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Fred Horak is the one to talk to. I believe that OCD is progressive and
> doesn't usually show up so early, but I might be misremembering.
>
>
> ?
>
>
> Linda
>
>
> ?
>
>
> Can anyone direct me on how to find out more about OCD in multi horned
> sheep?? I have a 2 week old lamb, that has been having some problems.. He
> gets better everyday, but a very educated person and I spoke of OCD and its
> symptoms....This lamb has a few of them.? We are going to the vet on Monday
> as the vet suspects that he had a pinched nerve in utero or during the birth
> process.? HE dodnt walk until he was a week old, and now runs and plays, but
> has a wobble to him.? GO figure.. he is the the most stunning, perfectly
> market, incredible structured ram, with 4 wide spaced horns, a real stud
> prospect as he is outside bloodlines of my original flock... SIGH.....Vet
> may also opt for accupuncture as well.? We will get a Xray of the back, and
> possibly the skull.
>
>  Any input... Feel free to reply to me privatley if needed
>
>  Jennifer Tucker
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ?
>
>
> A Bad Credit Score is 600 or Below. See yours in just 2 easy steps!
>
>
> ??
>
> http://www.patchworkfibers.com
>
> Registered Jacob Sheep, Handspun Yarn ?
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Jacob-list mailing list, sponsored by Swallow Lane Farm & Fiberworks
> Jacob-list at jacobsheep.com
> http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/jacob-list
>
>
>
>
>
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> ------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> Jacob-list mailing list
> Jacob-list at jacobsheep.com
> http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/jacob-list
>
>
> End of Jacob-list Digest, Vol 56, Issue 37
> ******************************************
>



-- 
www.mudranchjacobs.com

www.mudranch.com
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From gotothewhip at aol.com  Tue Mar 24 13:04:05 2009
From: gotothewhip at aol.com (gotothewhip at aol.com)
Date: Tue, 24 Mar 2009 13:04:05 -0400
Subject: [Jacob-list] OCD suspect lamb update
Message-ID: <8CB7AB9AC16CD35-9D8-86F@WEBMAIL-MY24.sysops.aol.com>

We pulled blood, and after a 1 hour exam, by 2 vets... we have not ruled out OCD? or Lysomal storage, but it has moved to a lower spot on the list.

We had planned to do radiographs, but the vet opted to wait a few weeks as we had poked and prodded the little lamb enough for one day.

The current theory is H.I.P.? Hypoxic Ischemic? Eccephalopathy.?? Basically oxygen deprivation at birth.? The cord may have gotten pinched or oxygen rich blood may have been pinched off to the brain or other organs.? The vet said he had a very good to excellent prognosis if this is the case as he will continue to get better everyday.? For those with horses, it would be the sheep equivelent to a "Dummy Foal" 

Here are 2 videos taken yesterday of the lamb:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2624D625Vdk


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aWaXNV8s5Ks
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From pegvanbeek at msn.com  Tue Mar 24 13:33:26 2009
From: pegvanbeek at msn.com (Marguerite Van Beek)
Date: Tue, 24 Mar 2009 13:33:26 -0400
Subject: [Jacob-list] OCD suspect lamb update
In-Reply-To: <8CB7AB9AC16CD35-9D8-86F@WEBMAIL-MY24.sysops.aol.com>
References: <8CB7AB9AC16CD35-9D8-86F@WEBMAIL-MY24.sysops.aol.com>
Message-ID: <BAY137-DS38F8208C2E182F368C14BC7930@phx.gbl>

After reviewing the video I can't see why you would consider OCD.  OCD in horses in a painful condition, swelling of the joint mostly the hocks.  Horses are not wobbly.  Things that can cause Neurological problems is West Nile, Wobblers (section of a fast growing baby neck spine drops down), a Dummy foal but that is diagnosed right after birth and they don't make it unless they get help, I had every one but the west Nile.

Dummy foal was caused by an infection during birth.  We knew immediately.  He would nurse only if we stood him up and directed him to the spot.  We gave him DMSO intravenously and antibotics.  DMSO  DMSO was to stop the swelling of the brain due to the bacteria.   He was fine within a week.  

Wobblers, caused by excessive growth. .  

I would look for mineral & vitamin imbalances and if the vet thinks it is a pinch nerve or damage nerve I would ask about the DMSO.  Great stuff when it comes to the spine.  And it causes no harm with foals.

Peggy




  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: gotothewhip at aol.com<mailto:gotothewhip at aol.com> 
  To: jacob-list at jacobsheep.com<mailto:jacob-list at jacobsheep.com> 
  Sent: Tuesday, March 24, 2009 1:04 PM
  Subject: [Jacob-list] OCD suspect lamb update


  We pulled blood, and after a 1 hour exam, by 2 vets... we have not ruled out OCD  or Lysomal storage, but it has moved to a lower spot on the list.

  We had planned to do radiographs, but the vet opted to wait a few weeks as we had poked and prodded the little lamb enough for one day.

  The current theory is H.I.P.  Hypoxic Ischemic  Eccephalopathy.   Basically oxygen deprivation at birth.  The cord may have gotten pinched or oxygen rich blood may have been pinched off to the brain or other organs.  The vet said he had a very good to excellent prognosis if this is the case as he will continue to get better everyday.  For those with horses, it would be the sheep equivelent to a "Dummy Foal" 

  Here are 2 videos taken yesterday of the lamb:

  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2624D625Vdk<http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2624D625Vdk>


  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aWaXNV8s5Ks<http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aWaXNV8s5Ks> 


------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  The Average US Credit Score is 692. See Yours in Just 2 Easy Steps!<http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1220085203x1201389322/aol?redir=http:%2F%2Fwww.freecreditreport.com%2Fpm%2Fdefault.aspx%3Fsc%3D668072%26hmpgID%3D62%26bcd%3DMarchAvgfooterNO62> 
  _______________________________________________
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  Jacob-list at jacobsheep.com
  http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/jacob-list
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From aztreaz at earthlink.net  Tue Mar 24 22:46:14 2009
From: aztreaz at earthlink.net (ARTHUR PARTRIDGE)
Date: Tue, 24 Mar 2009 19:46:14 -0700
Subject: [Jacob-list] bottle-fed lamb questions
Message-ID: <410-22009332524614546@earthlink.net>

--Previous Message--
 >Why did you leave the ewe and her lambs in a jug for two weeks? If
> there was a problem, that is a reason, but that is the reason for your
> problem with the lamb. If left separated from the flock for too long the
> flock will not accept the ewe or her lambs back into the flock without
> re-establishing the pecking order, which involves a lot of head butting.
=========
My friend raises Icelandics and she leaves the ewe and her lambs in the jug
for two weeks.  She also supplements the triplets; especially the lambs not
getting enough to eat.  She says it helps the bonding of the ewe and lambs
and, as I recall, to prevent injuries to the lambs when they are newborns. 
She has no problems with the ewes and lambs returning to the flock after
two weeks.   I only have one jug set up, for emergencies, so I am not able
to do this.  I put the ewe and lambs in the jug for a few days after birth
or put a gate up in the barn and keep them there for a few days.  No
problems doing it this way either.

Cathy
Moscow, Idaho



From tcarnes at carnesely.com  Tue Mar 24 22:50:06 2009
From: tcarnes at carnesely.com (Thomas P. Carnes)
Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2009 02:50:06 +0000
Subject: [Jacob-list] bottle-fed lamb questions
In-Reply-To: <410-22009332524614546@earthlink.net>
References: <410-22009332524614546@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <1878444672-1237950334-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-49110595-@bxe1298.bisx.prod.on.blackberry>

We have no jug. Ewes just lamb in the pasture with the others. No problems of note. 
Thomas P. Carnes
713.921.7790 (Telephone)
713.921.7793 (Facsimile)
tcarnes at carnesely.com

Sent from my Verizon Wireless

-----Original Message-----
From: "ARTHUR PARTRIDGE" <aztreaz at earthlink.net>

Date: Tue, 24 Mar 2009 19:46:14 
To: jacob-list<jacob-list at jacobsheep.com>
Subject: Re: [Jacob-list] bottle-fed lamb questions


--Previous Message--
 >Why did you leave the ewe and her lambs in a jug for two weeks? If
> there was a problem, that is a reason, but that is the reason for your
> problem with the lamb. If left separated from the flock for too long the
> flock will not accept the ewe or her lambs back into the flock without
> re-establishing the pecking order, which involves a lot of head butting.
=========
My friend raises Icelandics and she leaves the ewe and her lambs in the jug
for two weeks.  She also supplements the triplets; especially the lambs not
getting enough to eat.  She says it helps the bonding of the ewe and lambs
and, as I recall, to prevent injuries to the lambs when they are newborns. 
She has no problems with the ewes and lambs returning to the flock after
two weeks.   I only have one jug set up, for emergencies, so I am not able
to do this.  I put the ewe and lambs in the jug for a few days after birth
or put a gate up in the barn and keep them there for a few days.  No
problems doing it this way either.

Cathy
Moscow, Idaho


_______________________________________________
Jacob-list mailing list, sponsored by Swallow Lane Farm & Fiberworks
Jacob-list at jacobsheep.com
http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/jacob-list


From gotothewhip at aol.com  Tue Mar 24 23:54:36 2009
From: gotothewhip at aol.com (gotothewhip at aol.com)
Date: Tue, 24 Mar 2009 23:54:36 -0400
Subject: [Jacob-list] Interesting.. Jacob List and Google
Message-ID: <8CB7B148CD9DB50-9D8-2CA7@WEBMAIL-MY24.sysops.aol.com>


A gal I know just took in 2 bottle goats... She didnt talk to me before feeding them the first day... They are about 8 lbs each...... and she fed them 24 and 32 ounces over the last 24 hrs.... Needless to say, she has kids with scours!? 



I did a quick google search for a homemade electrlyte solution for her to use..... and a Jacob List post from Linda was the #1 choice!? 



Thought that was pretty cool!



Jennfer Tucker

Moose Mtn Ranch
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From patchworkfibers at alltel.net  Wed Mar 25 06:26:43 2009
From: patchworkfibers at alltel.net (Linda)
Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2009 06:26:43 -0400
Subject: [Jacob-list] OCD in Jacobs
In-Reply-To: <8CB7A3CE4FA412C-5E0-3DF2@webmail-dh27.sysops.aol.com>
Message-ID: <200932562643.632534@Linda-PC>

I didn't realize it could exhibit so early. Was I correct in that it does get progressively worse? and doesn't get better? 

Linda

 I have seen it in lambs of about four months of age, but a breeder I know has seen it as early as a few days old.It usually occurs when the horn set starts to develop more and puts pressure on the brain stem.

 Mick

 

 
 -----Original Message-----
 From: Linda <patchworkfibers at alltel.net>
 To: gotothewhip at aol.com; jacob-list at jacobsheep.com
 Sent: Sat, 21 Mar 2009 7:38 pm
 Subject: Re: [Jacob-list] OCD in Jacobs


Fred Horak is the one to talk to. I believe that OCD is progressive and doesn't usually show up so early, but I might be misremembering.

Linda

Can anyone direct me on how to find out more about OCD in multi horned sheep?  I have a 2 week old lamb, that has been having some problems.. He gets better everyday, but a very educated person and I spoke of OCD and its symptoms....This lamb has a few of them.  We are going to the vet on Monday as the vet suspects that he had a pinched nerve in utero or during the birth process.  HE dodnt walk until he was a week old, and now runs and plays, but has a wobble to him.  GO figure.. he is the the most stunning, perfectly market, incredible structured ram, with 4 wide spaced horns, a real stud prospect as he is outside bloodlines of my original flock... SIGH.....Vet may also opt for accupuncture as well.  We will get a Xray of the back, and possibly the skull.

 Any input... Feel free to reply to me privatley if needed

 Jennifer Tucker





  
A Bad Credit Score is 600 or Below. See yours in just 2 easy steps!   
http://www.patchworkfibers.com
 Registered Jacob Sheep, Handspun Yarn  

_______________________________________________
 Jacob-list mailing list, sponsored by Swallow Lane Farm & Fiberworks
Jacob-list at jacobsheep.com
http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/jacob-list


 
Job Hunting? Start with the companies that posted job openings this week.
? 
http://www.patchworkfibers.com 
Registered Jacob Sheep, Handspun Yarn  
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From hobbyknobfarm at main.nc.us  Wed Mar 25 09:47:08 2009
From: hobbyknobfarm at main.nc.us (hobbyknobfarm)
Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2009 09:47:08 -0400
Subject: [Jacob-list] tanning hides
Message-ID: <F955B160DE7443EC8033438D93A06B12@daron1>

Donna,
I had to salt my hide right away. Took a few days of salting. Look at www.lonestarfurdressing.com for more info. But I let them do the rest. They were long but pretty reasonable.
Elizabeth
www.hobbyknobfarm.com
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From carlfosbrink at yahoo.com  Wed Mar 25 09:49:35 2009
From: carlfosbrink at yahoo.com (CARL FOSBRINK)
Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2009 06:49:35 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Jacob-list] bottle-fed lamb questions
In-Reply-To: <410-22009332524614546@earthlink.net>
References: <410-22009332524614546@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <570932.75525.qm@web55501.mail.re4.yahoo.com>

Cathy,
?
??? Jacobs are a primitive?breed. Our ewes will go off by themselves in the pasture or go in the shelter by themselves and have their lambs. The rest of the flock leaves them alone as they seem to know what is happening. The mothers have good maternal instincts and don't have any problem bonding with their lambs or producing enough milk for triplets. That is how Jacobs should be. If they don't do these things they are culled here.
??? I have raised other breeds over the years, but would not go back to spending nights in the barn or doing other unnecessary work. We only check our Jacobs once or twice a day to see how they are doing during lambing season. Our breeding rams stay in with the flock all year round and do not bother the ewes or the lambs. We often see the lambs nuzzling the ram or jump on his back and he doesn't mind at all. 
?? We have four different breeding groups this year. The head of our old breeding group is 11 yrs. old and most of his ewes are 9, 10 & 11.?We have three more ewes to lamb this year and will have 60 plus lambs.
??? We all want to take good care of our sheep and should do so, but it is my sincere hope that we will keep them the hardy, primitive breed they are meant to be and not kill them with kindness.
?
Regards,
Carl

?
Carl and Judy Fosbrink
www.4hornfarm.com




________________________________
From: ARTHUR PARTRIDGE <aztreaz at earthlink.net>
To: jacob-list <jacob-list at jacobsheep.com>
Sent: Tuesday, March 24, 2009 10:46:14 PM
Subject: Re: [Jacob-list] bottle-fed lamb questions

--Previous Message--
>Why did you leave the ewe and her lambs in a jug for two weeks? If
> there was a problem, that is a reason, but that is the reason for your
> problem with the lamb. If left separated from the flock for too long the
> flock will not accept the ewe or her lambs back into the flock without
> re-establishing the pecking order, which involves a lot of head butting.
=========
My friend raises Icelandics and she leaves the ewe and her lambs in the jug
for two weeks.? She also supplements the triplets; especially the lambs not
getting enough to eat.? She says it helps the bonding of the ewe and lambs
and, as I recall, to prevent injuries to the lambs when they are newborns. 
She has no problems with the ewes and lambs returning to the flock after
two weeks.? I only have one jug set up, for emergencies, so I am not able
to do this.? I put the ewe and lambs in the jug for a few days after birth
or put a gate up in the barn and keep them there for a few days.? No
problems doing it this way either.

Cathy
Moscow, Idaho


_______________________________________________
Jacob-list mailing list, sponsored by Swallow Lane Farm & Fiberworks
Jacob-list at jacobsheep.com
http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/jacob-list
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From mudranch at gmail.com  Wed Mar 25 12:07:58 2009
From: mudranch at gmail.com (Joan Gross)
Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2009 09:07:58 -0700
Subject: [Jacob-list] Jacob-list Digest, Vol 56, Issue 39
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1125.1237988977.21077.jacob-list@jacobsheep.com>
References: <mailman.1125.1237988977.21077.jacob-list@jacobsheep.com>
Message-ID: <f1982a790903250907u2c7b447g40464904327dee06@mail.gmail.com>

*"We all want to take good care of our sheep and should do so, but it is my
sincere hope that we will keep them the hardy, primitive breed they are
meant to be and not kill them with kindness."*
I like this quote Carl, so true!
Joan Gross
www.mudranchjacobs.com


On Wed, Mar 25, 2009 at 6:49 AM, <jacob-list-request at jacobsheep.com> wrote:

> Send Jacob-list mailing list submissions to
>        jacob-list at jacobsheep.com
>
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
>        http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/jacob-list
> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
>        jacob-list-request at jacobsheep.com
>
> You can reach the person managing the list at
>        jacob-list-owner at jacobsheep.com
>
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of Jacob-list digest..."
>
>
> Today's Topics:
>
>   1. Re: bottle-fed lamb questions (ARTHUR PARTRIDGE)
>   2. Re: bottle-fed lamb questions (Thomas P. Carnes)
>   3. Interesting.. Jacob List and Google (gotothewhip at aol.com)
>   4. Re: OCD in Jacobs (Linda)
>   5. tanning hides (hobbyknobfarm)
>   6. Re: bottle-fed lamb questions (CARL FOSBRINK)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Tue, 24 Mar 2009 19:46:14 -0700
> From: "ARTHUR PARTRIDGE" <aztreaz at earthlink.net>
> Subject: Re: [Jacob-list] bottle-fed lamb questions
> To: "jacob-list" <jacob-list at jacobsheep.com>
> Message-ID: <410-22009332524614546 at earthlink.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
>
> --Previous Message--
>  >Why did you leave the ewe and her lambs in a jug for two weeks? If
> > there was a problem, that is a reason, but that is the reason for your
> > problem with the lamb. If left separated from the flock for too long the
> > flock will not accept the ewe or her lambs back into the flock without
> > re-establishing the pecking order, which involves a lot of head butting.
> =========
> My friend raises Icelandics and she leaves the ewe and her lambs in the jug
> for two weeks.  She also supplements the triplets; especially the lambs not
> getting enough to eat.  She says it helps the bonding of the ewe and lambs
> and, as I recall, to prevent injuries to the lambs when they are newborns.
> She has no problems with the ewes and lambs returning to the flock after
> two weeks.   I only have one jug set up, for emergencies, so I am not able
> to do this.  I put the ewe and lambs in the jug for a few days after birth
> or put a gate up in the barn and keep them there for a few days.  No
> problems doing it this way either.
>
> Cathy
> Moscow, Idaho
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2009 02:50:06 +0000
> From: "Thomas P. Carnes" <tcarnes at carnesely.com>
> Subject: Re: [Jacob-list] bottle-fed lamb questions
> To: aztreaz at earthlink.net, "jacob-list" <jacob-list at jacobsheep.com>
> Message-ID:
>
>  <1878444672-1237950334-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-49110595- at bxe1298.bisx.prod.on.blackberry
> >
>
> Content-Type: text/plain
>
> We have no jug. Ewes just lamb in the pasture with the others. No problems
> of note.
> Thomas P. Carnes
> 713.921.7790 (Telephone)
> 713.921.7793 (Facsimile)
> tcarnes at carnesely.com
>
> Sent from my Verizon Wireless
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: "ARTHUR PARTRIDGE" <aztreaz at earthlink.net>
>
> Date: Tue, 24 Mar 2009 19:46:14
> To: jacob-list<jacob-list at jacobsheep.com>
> Subject: Re: [Jacob-list] bottle-fed lamb questions
>
>
> --Previous Message--
>  >Why did you leave the ewe and her lambs in a jug for two weeks? If
> > there was a problem, that is a reason, but that is the reason for your
> > problem with the lamb. If left separated from the flock for too long the
> > flock will not accept the ewe or her lambs back into the flock without
> > re-establishing the pecking order, which involves a lot of head butting.
> =========
> My friend raises Icelandics and she leaves the ewe and her lambs in the jug
> for two weeks.  She also supplements the triplets; especially the lambs not
> getting enough to eat.  She says it helps the bonding of the ewe and lambs
> and, as I recall, to prevent injuries to the lambs when they are newborns.
> She has no problems with the ewes and lambs returning to the flock after
> two weeks.   I only have one jug set up, for emergencies, so I am not able
> to do this.  I put the ewe and lambs in the jug for a few days after birth
> or put a gate up in the barn and keep them there for a few days.  No
> problems doing it this way either.
>
> Cathy
> Moscow, Idaho
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Jacob-list mailing list, sponsored by Swallow Lane Farm & Fiberworks
> Jacob-list at jacobsheep.com
> http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/jacob-list
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Tue, 24 Mar 2009 23:54:36 -0400
> From: gotothewhip at aol.com
> Subject: [Jacob-list] Interesting.. Jacob List and Google
> To: jacob-list at jacobsheep.com
> Message-ID: <8CB7B148CD9DB50-9D8-2CA7 at WEBMAIL-MY24.sysops.aol.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
>
> A gal I know just took in 2 bottle goats... She didnt talk to me before
> feeding them the first day... They are about 8 lbs each...... and she fed
> them 24 and 32 ounces over the last 24 hrs.... Needless to say, she has kids
> with scours!?
>
>
>
> I did a quick google search for a homemade electrlyte solution for her to
> use..... and a Jacob List post from Linda was the #1 choice!?
>
>
>
> Thought that was pretty cool!
>
>
>
> Jennfer Tucker
>
> Moose Mtn Ranch
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>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2009 06:26:43 -0400
> From: Linda <patchworkfibers at alltel.net>
> Subject: Re: [Jacob-list] OCD in Jacobs
> To: <schmick54 at aol.com>, <gotothewhip at aol.com>,
>        <jacob-list at jacobsheep.com>
> Message-ID: <200932562643.632534 at Linda-PC>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> I didn't realize it could exhibit so early. Was I correct in that it does
> get progressively worse? and doesn't get better?
>
> Linda
>
>  I have seen it in lambs of about four months of age, but a breeder I know
> has seen it as early as a few days old.It usually occurs when the horn set
> starts to develop more and puts pressure on the brain stem.
>
>  Mick
>
>
>
>
>  -----Original Message-----
>  From: Linda <patchworkfibers at alltel.net>
>  To: gotothewhip at aol.com; jacob-list at jacobsheep.com
>  Sent: Sat, 21 Mar 2009 7:38 pm
>  Subject: Re: [Jacob-list] OCD in Jacobs
>
>
> Fred Horak is the one to talk to. I believe that OCD is progressive and
> doesn't usually show up so early, but I might be misremembering.
>
> Linda
>
> Can anyone direct me on how to find out more about OCD in multi horned
> sheep?  I have a 2 week old lamb, that has been having some problems.. He
> gets better everyday, but a very educated person and I spoke of OCD and its
> symptoms....This lamb has a few of them.  We are going to the vet on Monday
> as the vet suspects that he had a pinched nerve in utero or during the birth
> process.  HE dodnt walk until he was a week old, and now runs and plays, but
> has a wobble to him.  GO figure.. he is the the most stunning, perfectly
> market, incredible structured ram, with 4 wide spaced horns, a real stud
> prospect as he is outside bloodlines of my original flock... SIGH.....Vet
> may also opt for accupuncture as well.  We will get a Xray of the back, and
> possibly the skull.
>
>  Any input... Feel free to reply to me privatley if needed
>
>  Jennifer Tucker
>
>
>
>
>
>   A Bad Credit Score is 600 or Below. See yours in just 2 easy steps!
> http://www.patchworkfibers.com
>  Registered Jacob Sheep, Handspun Yarn
>
> _______________________________________________
>  Jacob-list mailing list, sponsored by Swallow Lane Farm & Fiberworks
> Jacob-list at jacobsheep.com
> http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/jacob-list
>
>
>  Job Hunting? Start with the companies that posted job openings this week.
>
> http://www.patchworkfibers.com
> Registered Jacob Sheep, Handspun Yarn
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>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2009 09:47:08 -0400
> From: "hobbyknobfarm" <hobbyknobfarm at main.nc.us>
> Subject: [Jacob-list] tanning hides
> To: <jacob-list at jacobsheep.com>
> Message-ID: <F955B160DE7443EC8033438D93A06B12 at daron1>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> Donna,
> I had to salt my hide right away. Took a few days of salting. Look at
> www.lonestarfurdressing.com for more info. But I let them do the rest.
> They were long but pretty reasonable.
> Elizabeth
> www.hobbyknobfarm.com
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>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 6
> Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2009 06:49:35 -0700 (PDT)
> From: CARL FOSBRINK <carlfosbrink at yahoo.com>
> Subject: Re: [Jacob-list] bottle-fed lamb questions
> To: aztreaz at earthlink.net, jacob-list <jacob-list at jacobsheep.com>
> Message-ID: <570932.75525.qm at web55501.mail.re4.yahoo.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> Cathy,
> ?
> ??? Jacobs are a primitive?breed. Our ewes will go off by themselves in the
> pasture or go in the shelter by themselves and have their lambs. The rest of
> the flock leaves them alone as they seem to know what is happening. The
> mothers have good maternal instincts and don't have any problem bonding with
> their lambs or producing enough milk for triplets. That is how Jacobs should
> be. If they don't do these things they are culled here.
> ??? I have raised other breeds over the years, but would not go back to
> spending nights in the barn or doing other unnecessary work. We only check
> our Jacobs once or twice a day to see how they are doing during lambing
> season. Our breeding rams stay in with the flock all year round and do not
> bother the ewes or the lambs. We often see the lambs nuzzling the ram or
> jump on his back and he doesn't mind at all.
> ?? We have four different breeding groups this year. The head of our old
> breeding group is 11 yrs. old and most of his ewes are 9, 10 & 11.?We have
> three more ewes to lamb this year and will have 60 plus lambs.
> ??? We all want to take good care of our sheep and should do so, but it is
> my sincere hope that we will keep them the hardy, primitive breed they are
> meant to be and not kill them with kindness.
> ?
> Regards,
> Carl
>
> ?
> Carl and Judy Fosbrink
> www.4hornfarm.com
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: ARTHUR PARTRIDGE <aztreaz at earthlink.net>
> To: jacob-list <jacob-list at jacobsheep.com>
> Sent: Tuesday, March 24, 2009 10:46:14 PM
> Subject: Re: [Jacob-list] bottle-fed lamb questions
>
> --Previous Message--
> >Why did you leave the ewe and her lambs in a jug for two weeks? If
> > there was a problem, that is a reason, but that is the reason for your
> > problem with the lamb. If left separated from the flock for too long the
> > flock will not accept the ewe or her lambs back into the flock without
> > re-establishing the pecking order, which involves a lot of head butting.
> =========
> My friend raises Icelandics and she leaves the ewe and her lambs in the jug
> for two weeks.? She also supplements the triplets; especially the lambs not
> getting enough to eat.? She says it helps the bonding of the ewe and lambs
> and, as I recall, to prevent injuries to the lambs when they are newborns.
> She has no problems with the ewes and lambs returning to the flock after
> two weeks.? I only have one jug set up, for emergencies, so I am not able
> to do this.? I put the ewe and lambs in the jug for a few days after birth
> or put a gate up in the barn and keep them there for a few days.? No
> problems doing it this way either.
>
> Cathy
> Moscow, Idaho
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Jacob-list mailing list, sponsored by Swallow Lane Farm & Fiberworks
> Jacob-list at jacobsheep.com
> http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/jacob-list
> -------------- next part --------------
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> http://www.pairlist.net/pipermail/jacob-list/attachments/20090325/ad9aaf6f/attachment.htm
> >
>
> ------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> Jacob-list mailing list
> Jacob-list at jacobsheep.com
> http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/jacob-list
>
>
> End of Jacob-list Digest, Vol 56, Issue 39
> ******************************************
>



-- 
www.mudranchjacobs.com

www.mudranch.com
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From aztreaz at earthlink.net  Wed Mar 25 13:54:57 2009
From: aztreaz at earthlink.net (ARTHUR PARTRIDGE)
Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2009 10:54:57 -0700
Subject: [Jacob-list] bottle-fed lamb questions
Message-ID: <410-22009332517545762@earthlink.net>

>*"We all want to take good care of our sheep and should do so, but it is my
>sincere hope that we will keep them the hardy, primitive breed they are
>meant to be and not kill them with kindness."*
>I like this quote Carl, so true!
>Joan Gross
========
That IS a great quote.  As to my friend who keeps her Icelandics in a jug
for two weeks, she goes even further.  Not only does each ewe/lamb combo
have their private suite (jug) for two weeks, each has a heating lamp that
is on during the night.  It doesn't get that cold here in March!  Plus I
noticed some singed fleeces on the ewes from getting too close to the
lamps.  She gets teased a lot by the other sheep producers, they claim her
sheep have a soft life.  I thought she was just being a great shepherd who
doesn't take chances, now I'm not so sure.

My Jacobs are still hardy and primitive simply because we can't afford to
provide the extras!  Apparently, that's a good thing.

Cathy
Moscow, Idaho



From patchworkfibers at alltel.net  Wed Mar 25 17:24:33 2009
From: patchworkfibers at alltel.net (Linda)
Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2009 17:24:33 -0400
Subject: [Jacob-list] tanning hides
In-Reply-To: <F955B160DE7443EC8033438D93A06B12@daron1>
Message-ID: <2009325172433.789445@Linda-PC>

Did you get your hides back? I called them a couple of weeks ago and someone actually answered and said he would check on my hide, but I never heard back. I don't think that website is theirs anymore.

Linda


Donna,
I had to salt my hide right away. Took a few days of salting. Look at www.lonestarfurdressing.com for more info. But I let them do the rest. They were long but pretty reasonable.
Elizabeth
www.hobbyknobfarm.com

? 
http://www.patchworkfibers.com 
Registered Jacob Sheep, Handspun Yarn  
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From gotothewhip at aol.com  Wed Mar 25 17:32:26 2009
From: gotothewhip at aol.com (gotothewhip at aol.com)
Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2009 17:32:26 -0400
Subject: [Jacob-list] tanning hides
In-Reply-To: <2009325172433.789445@Linda-PC>
Message-ID: <8CB7BA8538AED4C-14F4-13E0@webmail-me14.sysops.aol.com>

I found a local guy to do mine. He did a BEAUTIFUL job on the adult hide I took him.. i will have to look up the cost, but it was about a 2 month turnaround.? He will take shiopped hides and tan them as well.? We are VERY happy with the hide we got.

If your interested, Email me and I will give you his details.? He owns a small taxidermy business.? His parents are new Jacob owners as well (the also have Babydoll Southdowns)

Jennifer Tucker
Moose Mtn Ranch
Bennett, CO


-----Original Message-----
From: Linda <patchworkfibers at alltel.net>
To: hobbyknobfarm <hobbyknobfarm at main.nc.us>; jacob-list at jacobsheep.com
Sent: Wed, 25 Mar 2009 3:24 pm
Subject: Re: [Jacob-list] tanning hides



Did you get your hides back? I called them a couple of weeks ago and someone actually answered and said he would check on my hide, but I never heard back. I don't think that website is theirs anymore.

?

Linda

?

?

Donna,

I had to salt my hide right away. Took a few days of salting. Look at www.lonestarfurdressing.com for more info. But I let them do the rest. They were long but pretty reasonable.

Elizabeth

www.hobbyknobfarm.com


??
http://www.patchworkfibers.com 
Registered Jacob Sheep, Handspun Yarn ?



_______________________________________________
Jacob-list mailing list, sponsored by Swallow Lane Farm & Fiberworks
Jacob-list at jacobsheep.com
http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/jacob-list

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From patchworkfibers at alltel.net  Wed Mar 25 18:03:49 2009
From: patchworkfibers at alltel.net (Linda)
Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2009 18:03:49 -0400
Subject: [Jacob-list] tanning hides
In-Reply-To: <8CB7BA8538AED4C-14F4-13E0@webmail-me14.sysops.aol.com>
Message-ID: <200932518349.131311@Linda-PC>

Please send me the details. 2 month turn around? That's fast. Mine have been gone for 17 months!!

Linda

I found a local guy to do mine. He did a BEAUTIFUL job on the adult hide I took him.. i will have to look up the cost, but it was about a 2 month turnaround.  He will take shiopped hides and tan them as well.  We are VERY happy with the hide we got.

 If your interested, Email me and I will give you his details.  He owns a small taxidermy business.  His parents are new Jacob owners as well (the also have Babydoll Southdowns)

 Jennifer Tucker
 Moose Mtn Ranch
 Bennett, CO


 -----Original Message-----
 From: Linda <patchworkfibers at alltel.net>
 To: hobbyknobfarm <hobbyknobfarm at main.nc.us> jacob-list at jacobsheep.com
 Sent: Wed, 25 Mar 2009 3:24 pm
 Subject: Re: [Jacob-list] tanning hides


Did you get your hides back? I called them a couple of weeks ago and someone actually answered and said he would check on my hide, but I never heard back. I don't think that website is theirs anymore.

Linda


Donna,
I had to salt my hide right away. Took a few days of salting. Look at www.lonestarfurdressing.com for more info. But I let them do the rest. They were long but pretty reasonable.
Elizabeth
www.hobbyknobfarm.com

   
http://www.patchworkfibers.com
 Registered Jacob Sheep, Handspun Yarn  

_______________________________________________ Jacob-list mailing list, sponsored by Swallow Lane Farm & Fiberworks Jacob-list at jacobsheep.comhttp://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/jacob-list

 
Great Deals on Dell 15" Laptops - Starting at $479
? 
http://www.patchworkfibers.com 
Registered Jacob Sheep, Handspun Yarn  
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From timberacres at peak.org  Wed Mar 25 21:35:27 2009
From: timberacres at peak.org (Timber Acres)
Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2009 18:35:27 -0700
Subject: [Jacob-list] Updated Pictures
References: <8CB7BA8538AED4C-14F4-13E0@webmail-me14.sysops.aol.com>
Message-ID: <22A69266C30A4E358BB8AE0B86129172@D6JF2R41>

I finally got a chance to get some quick pics between rain showers of the lambs.  We had 6 lambs, 2 ewes and 4 rams.  A few have blue eyes and a few 4 horns.

http://www.timber-acres.com


Lisa Stirnemann
Timber Acres
Philomath, Oregon
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From gotothewhip at aol.com  Thu Mar 26 00:19:21 2009
From: gotothewhip at aol.com (gotothewhip at aol.com)
Date: Thu, 26 Mar 2009 00:19:21 -0400
Subject: [Jacob-list] Colorado Tanner/Taxidermist
Message-ID: <8CB7BE12C2F475D-1540-21AB@WEBMAIL-DY14.sysops.aol.com>


The guy I used and reccomend is Ken Merritt
303-659-5646

He is located in Brighton, CO

You will need to contact Ken for details, but he did a really nice job for us.? It took about 2 months.

Jennifer Tucker
Moose Mtn Ranch


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From RNS1260 at comcast.net  Thu Mar 26 08:06:44 2009
From: RNS1260 at comcast.net (RNS1260 at comcast.net)
Date: Thu, 26 Mar 2009 12:06:44 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [Jacob-list] Jacob Hides
Message-ID: <24194648.1647271238069204394.JavaMail.root@sz0160a.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net>




We sent our Jacob hides to Lonestar Furs over two years ago. We made contact on more than one occasion. At first we were sympathetic to his over load of a new business.?He even had us talked into sending this years hides and doing them all at once. We decided we would like to see his work first. We have never heard anything back and he still has our original order and 1/2 down payment. I think we will just stick with Bucks County. I hope others have a better?experience. 



Cheryl 

www.risenshinefarm
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From aztreaz at earthlink.net  Thu Mar 26 15:03:52 2009
From: aztreaz at earthlink.net (ARTHUR PARTRIDGE)
Date: Thu, 26 Mar 2009 12:03:52 -0700
Subject: [Jacob-list] Jacob hides
Message-ID: <410-22009342619352515@earthlink.net>

--Previous Message--
>We sent our Jacob hides to Lonestar Furs over two years ago. We made
contact on more than one occasion. At first we were sympathetic >to his
over load of a new business.?He even had us talked into sending this years
hides and doing them all at once. We decided we would >like to see his work
first. We have never heard anything back and he still has our original
order and 1/2 down payment. I think we will just >stick with Bucks County.
I hope others have a better?experience. 
=========
No, we didn't have a better experience.  I waited two or three years, I
forgot.  We finally received the pelts last summer.  He did a really good
job on them, he's just so slooooooowwwww.  There also was little
communication.  I had one pelt that was my nicest one of all and I thought
for sure he kept it, plus the deposit for three more.  After a year, I
finally received word that they were in the "pickling" stage.  About two
years later, I received them.  He wrote that he was overwhelmed with hides
and pelts and wouldn't be taking anymore.  I sent my latest hides to Sterns
Tanning now that they are back in business.  They take about 5 months to do
the job.

Cathy Partridge
Moscow, Idaho



From paintedrockfarm at aol.com  Fri Mar 27 09:55:54 2009
From: paintedrockfarm at aol.com (Cheryl Terrano)
Date: Fri, 27 Mar 2009 09:55:54 -0400
Subject: [Jacob-list] updates lambs pics
Message-ID: <8CB7CFAE1BF9B7C-167C-279F@webmail-md18.sysops.aol.com>

Finally had the chance to update photos on the lamb page. Not all are listed just yet and not all have been updated, only those who were cooperative this morning.:)

http://www.paintedrockfarm.com click on Asher's picture to enter the website, then go to the lamb page.


Cheryl in WV
http://paintedrockfarm.blogspot.com
http://www.paintedrockfarm.com

WHEN EVERYTHING THAT CAN BE SHAKEN IS SHAKEN, THE ANCHOR THAT HOLDS IS THE WISDOM OF THE CROSS. (Jason Upton, Key of David Ministries, from the CD 1200 ft below sea level)

If you want to see God's power at work, you must get out of the church and into the world. Watch the extravagant lengths which God will go to reveal Himself to people who don't know Him. Then you will learn how truly awesome our God is. (Author Unknown)
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From patchworkfibers at alltel.net  Mon Mar 30 20:14:04 2009
From: patchworkfibers at alltel.net (Linda)
Date: Mon, 30 Mar 2009 20:14:04 -0400
Subject: [Jacob-list] gestation length
Message-ID: <200933020144.740450@Linda-PC>

I was looking for something unrelated online and happened across this interesting information at: http://www.cababstractsplus.org/abstracts/Abstract.aspx?AcNo=19890170249

"Abstract:
For 985 synchronised ewes, gestation length averaged 149.81 days (range = 141-157), and was longer for ewes carrying a [male] fetus than for those carrying a [female]. It was longer for ewes carrying mixed-sex twins than for those carrying [female] twins, and was the same for ewes carrying twins as for those carrying a [female] fetus. Gestation length was significantly affected by age of ewe and ram."

Have no idea what to do with this information (or if it even actually applies), just thought it was interesting. 



Linda


http://www.patchworkfibers.com
 Registered Jacob Sheep, Handspun Yarn  

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From fourhornfarm at verizon.net  Tue Mar 31 10:13:34 2009
From: fourhornfarm at verizon.net (fourhornfarm)
Date: Tue, 31 Mar 2009 10:13:34 -0400
Subject: [Jacob-list] AGM
Message-ID: <D710F0696A5843F08D0C68E982EA7795@DollyLama>

Is anyone going to the AGM that would be traveling through Wisconsin, Mt. Horeb area? I need transportation for a 2009 ewe lamb to the AGM.

Thanks,
Carl
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From snielsen at orednet.org  Tue Mar 31 12:58:35 2009
From: snielsen at orednet.org (snielsen at orednet.org)
Date: Tue, 31 Mar 2009 09:58:35 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Jacob-list] Is a puzzlement: suckling here and there
Message-ID: <51826.72.251.76.23.1238518715.squirrel@shemp.dialoregon.net>

We have a ram lamb this year who has me confused. When he showed up on
Friday, I jugged him with the ewe I thought had just lambed (lift tails,
look for evidence). She didn't seem real interested in him, but didn't
kick him off, and he had obviously had his breakfast. I was on my way to
work, and probably didn't do as thorough a job as I should have...

Came home in the evening to find the ewe had busted out of the jug and the
ram lamb and everyone were happily bonking around in the paddock. But it
was another ewe (Jenna) who was tending to him, grunting, bumping,
checking on him, muttering. So I caught her and checked her out. Possible,
but she didn't have a very big bag. She sure wanted him, though. I sat and
watched for a while, and this little boy is suckling off two ewes, neither
one of which is the one I thought had birthed him. At least one of the two
(Dorothy) hasn't lambed yet! They both accept him at the teat, and he is
doing grand.

So here is my dilemma, when Dorothy lambs, she won't, I don't imagine,
have any colostrum left. If I supplement her lamb, when it comes... will
all be OK? How long would a person give a supplement with colostrum?

Susan (thinking they just can't act like regular sheep, these Jacobs)


-- 
See our farm blog at http://skepweaver.wordpress.com/
--
Peace also takes courage.