From gotothewhip at aol.com  Sat Nov  1 12:24:52 2008
From: gotothewhip at aol.com (gotothewhip at aol.com)
Date: Sat, 01 Nov 2008 12:24:52 -0400
Subject: [Jacob-list] Question on choking
Message-ID: <8CB0A5580CF48B1-AD0-23EA@MBLK-M24.sysops.aol.com>

I just got a call from a lady who bought some sheep from me this summer.? She is new to jacobs, but owns Baby Doll Southdowns, and takes amazing care of her animals.

The yearling ram I sold her was coughing up chewed up hay.? I went thru the normal choke questions.... She was feeding NO grain at all, and the hay he was fed, he was not real greedy about taking in, he nibbled at it.? No big changes in the feed either.? She had called both local vets, but neither was available.

This morning, he was hunched up, and foamy....and while explaining the situation to me he died.? Ive never had a sheep choke on hay before.. any insight?

Jennifer Tucker
www.MoosMtnRanch.com
Bennett, CO
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From gotothewhip at aol.com  Sat Nov  1 15:27:59 2008
From: gotothewhip at aol.com (gotothewhip at aol.com)
Date: Sat, 01 Nov 2008 15:27:59 -0400
Subject: [Jacob-list] Question on choking
In-Reply-To: <008b01c93c5b$0e4d3080$0a00a8c0@searlecece725f>
References: <8CB0A5580CF48B1-AD0-23EA@MBLK-M24.sysops.aol.com>
	<008b01c93c5b$0e4d3080$0a00a8c0@searlecece725f>
Message-ID: <8CB0A6F15AAAC8D-8F8-753@WEBMAIL-MC02.sysops.aol.com>


 She had the vet out to necorpsy.. it was an obstruction of the esophagus The vet said the only way to clear it would have been to tube him immediately as it was hay that was causing the choke.? I have another ram for her now.... I know I don't NEED to replace him, but with them being new Jacob folks I want to keep this fun and them interested in the breed and not discouraged.. so they have first pick of my 09 ram lambs... She doesn't need a ram this year as all the ewes they bought from me were bred to diffrent rams (So she could breed both momma and any 09 ewe lambs to the ram she bought)? I still cant believe he choked on Hay.... that is truly a first I have heard of. Such a shame... the ram she had is still on the for sale page of my website.. a nice lilac 2 horn ram.... 

Jennifer
www.MooseMtnRanch.com? 



 


 

-----Original Message-----
From: Brenda <brenda at brenalanfarm.com>
To: gotothewhip at aol.com
Sent: Sat, 1 Nov 2008 1:50 pm
Subject: Re: [Jacob-list] Question on choking
















Anyone considering a necropsy? If it was physical 
choking or a problem severe enough to cause choking, it should take minimal time 
and expense for a vet to figure it out. Or she could open him up and SEE if 
anything jumps out at her. I have seen choking on feed before with foamy drool, 
but it was always clearly eating too fast. The "hunched up" part makes me think 
he might have been having some pain in the midsection if it wasn't just hunching 
while coughing. Sorry she lost her ram. Shannon has a nice ram if she is looking 
for replacements- one that was returned due to owner's illness, not because he 
isn't a fine boy, and his price is less than he is worth.


?


Brenda



  
----- Original Message ----- 

  
From: 
  gotothewhip at aol.com 

  
To: jacob-list at jacobsheep.com 

  
Sent: Saturday, November 01, 2008 8:24 
  AM

  
Subject: [Jacob-list] Question on 
  choking

  


I just got a call 
  from a lady who bought some sheep from me this summer.? She is new to 
  jacobs, but owns Baby Doll Southdowns, and takes amazing care of her 
  animals.

The yearling ram I sold her was coughing up chewed up 
  hay.? I went thru the normal choke questions.... She was feeding NO grain 
  at all, and the hay he was fed, he was not real greedy about taking in, he 
  nibbled at it.? No big changes in the feed either.? She had called 
  both local vets, but neither was available.

This morning, he was 
  hunched up, and foamy....and while explaining the situation to me he 
  died.? Ive never had a sheep choke on hay before.. any 
  insight?

Jennifer Tucker
www.MoosMtnRanch.com
Bennett, 
  CO

  


  


  McCain or Obama? Stay up to date on the latest from the campaign trail 
  with AOL 
  News. 

  

  




  

_______________________________________________
Jacob-list mailing 
  list, sponsored by Swallow Lane Farm & 
  Fiberworks
Jacob-list at jacobsheep.com
http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/jacob-list


 

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From wedohoney at sbcglobal.net  Sat Nov  1 22:21:38 2008
From: wedohoney at sbcglobal.net (JACI SIEHL)
Date: Sat, 1 Nov 2008 19:21:38 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Jacob-list] Choking
Message-ID: <172449.80635.qm@web80605.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

I have a friend with an older polypay ewe that was choking.? Hay would get caught around the tooth and get hung up in the esophagus causing choking and foaming.? My friend reached in and found a large clump of hay that appeared to be very old and putrid that was wrapped around?a loose?tooth and halfway down the throat.? This also caused some stomach issues.? The vet pulled the tooth and?soon everything was fine.
?
Jaci Siehl
Sugarpine Jacobs
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From patchworkfibers at alltel.net  Sun Nov  2 07:12:31 2008
From: patchworkfibers at alltel.net (Linda)
Date: Sun, 2 Nov 2008 07:12:31 -0500
Subject: [Jacob-list] corn gluten/ration
Message-ID: <200811271231.615138@Linda-PC>

Does anyone have any experience/information with feeding corn gluten? Our local 
hay supplier uses it for his cattle during the winter. It's 1/2 the price of 
whole corn. 

 From what I've been able to garner from the web, it wouldn't be recommended as 
the complete diet. Also the copper content can be variable. I didn't see the bag 
it came in, so didn't get a chance to read the label. 

This year I'm going back to mixing my own feed ration. I did it for about 8 
years, but went to premixes when I got more sheep. The sheep did very well on my 
mix. I liked the Blue Seal sheep feed, but we just lost the Blue Seal dealer 
that was 35 miles away in SC. The next closest is 65 miles in NC and the cost in 
time and gas just doesn't make sense to me. 

My sheep mix consists of whole corn, whole oats, soybean meal, wheat bran, and 
livestock molasses. I'd appreciate hearing from others that mix their own feeds 
and what home made mixes have worked for you. 

Thank you,
Linda


? 
http://www.patchworkfibers.com 
Registered Jacob Sheep, Handspun Yarn  
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From perfectspot at bellsouth.net  Sun Nov  2 11:35:25 2008
From: perfectspot at bellsouth.net (Cathy Robinson)
Date: Sun, 02 Nov 2008 11:35:25 -0500
Subject: [Jacob-list] corn gluten/ration
In-Reply-To: <200811271231.615138@Linda-PC>
References: <200811271231.615138@Linda-PC>
Message-ID: <490DD6CD.8010205@bellsouth.net>

I hope those who respond to Linda's question will reply to the list. 
I was thinking about this same subject yesterday, in preparation for 
winter feeding, wondering how we could simplify and economize here. 
Good timing, Linda! 

Cathy
Perfect Spot Farm

Linda wrote:
> Does anyone have any experience/information with feeding corn gluten? 
> Our local hay supplier uses it for his cattle during the winter. It's 
> 1/2 the price of whole corn.
>  
> My sheep mix consists of whole corn, whole oats, soybean meal, wheat 
> bran, and livestock molasses. I'd appreciate hearing from others that 
> mix their own feeds and what home made mixes have worked for you.
>  
> Thank you,
> Linda
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From rlynde at onramp113.org  Sun Nov  2 11:53:11 2008
From: rlynde at onramp113.org (Robin Lynde)
Date: Sun, 2 Nov 2008 08:53:11 -0800
Subject: [Jacob-list] corn gluten/ration
References: <200811271231.615138@Linda-PC>
Message-ID: <18D971F4F97D423892468CCA457F429E@your4dacd0ea75>

I wouldn't feed something with questionable copper content no matter how good a deal it seems. Also, is this because hay in your area isn't of good quality? I feed hardly feed grain at all and my sheep are fat on alfalfa. I do buy a little bit of grain but I use if sparingly. During lambing season I mix a medium size bucket of half COB and half alfalfa pellets (cheaper) and I spread that out in all the feeders. But this is one bucket for 50-60 sheep and goats so you know that they're all getting only a very small amount. This is one way I have of checking to see who might not be feeling good (ready to lamb).

Speaking of alfalfa, I just got a donkey and now I'm realizing that since I'll be feeding alfalfa all winter, the donkey will be getting that too unless I separate her. I didn't want to make life more complicated with this addition. Any advice from donkey owners?
Robin Lynde
Meridian Jacobs
Vacaville, CA 
www.meridianjacobs.com 
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Linda 
  To: Jacob-list at jacobsheep.com 
  Sent: Sunday, November 02, 2008 4:12 AM
  Subject: [Jacob-list] corn gluten/ration


  Does anyone have any experience/information with feeding corn gluten? Our local hay supplier uses it for his cattle during the winter. It's 1/2 the price of whole corn. 

  From what I've been able to garner from the web, it wouldn't be recommended as the complete diet. Also the copper content can be variable. I didn't see the bag it came in, so didn't get a chance to read the label. 

  This year I'm going back to mixing my own feed ration. I did it for about 8 years, but went to premixes when I got more sheep. The sheep did very well on my mix. I liked the Blue Seal sheep feed, but we just lost the Blue Seal dealer that was 35 miles away in SC. The next closest is 65 miles in NC and the cost in time and gas just doesn't make sense to me. 

  My sheep mix consists of whole corn, whole oats, soybean meal, wheat bran, and livestock molasses. I'd appreciate hearing from others that mix their own feeds and what home made mixes have worked for you. 

  Thank you,
  Linda


    
  http://www.patchworkfibers.com 
  Registered Jacob Sheep, Handspun Yarn  



------------------------------------------------------------------------------


  _______________________________________________
  Jacob-list mailing list, sponsored by Swallow Lane Farm & Fiberworks
  Jacob-list at jacobsheep.com
  http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/jacob-list
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From patchworkfibers at alltel.net  Sun Nov  2 12:14:18 2008
From: patchworkfibers at alltel.net (Linda)
Date: Sun, 2 Nov 2008 12:14:18 -0500
Subject: [Jacob-list] corn gluten/ration
In-Reply-To: <18D971F4F97D423892468CCA457F429E@your4dacd0ea75>
Message-ID: <2008112121418.945647@Linda-PC>

My experience, and the experience of our farrier (Pete Ramey 
http://www.hoofrehab.com/) is that alfalfa and grain are hell on a donkey's 
feet. We did just sell our last donkey last month (we had five at one time). I 
fed the sheep in an area with a creep gate and kept the nutritional tubs in 
there, away from the donkeys. The donkeys did vary as to how grain would affect 
hoof growth, but you sure see the difference on all of them when they had access 
to alfalfa or grain.

The hay in our area is of fairly good quality, although we don't have access to 
alfalfa. I do feed alfalfa pellets and will be adding grain soon. I feed alfalfa 
pellets and grain in order to stretch our hay supply, which can be iffy. This 
year, it looks like we have plenty, but if the drought continues into spring, we 
may end up short.

Linda



> I wouldn't feed something with questionable copper content no
> matter how good a deal it seems. Also, is this because hay in your
> area isn't of good quality? I feed hardly feed grain at all and my
> sheep are fat on alfalfa. I do buy a little bit of grain but I use
> if sparingly. During lambing season I mix a medium size bucket of
> half COB and half alfalfa pellets (cheaper) and I spread that out
> in all the feeders. But this is one bucket for 50-60 sheep and
> goats so you know that they're all getting only a very small
> amount. This is one way I have of checking to see who might not be
> feeling good (ready to lamb).
>
> Speaking of alfalfa, I just got a donkey and now I'm realizing that
> since I'll be feeding alfalfa all winter, the donkey will be
> getting that too unless I separate her. I didn't want to make life
> more complicated with this addition. Any advice from donkey owners?
> Robin Lynde
> Meridian Jacobs
> Vacaville, CA
> www.meridianjacobs.com
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: Linda
>> To: Jacob-list at jacobsheep.com
>> Sent: Sunday, November 02, 2008 4:12 AM
>> Subject: [Jacob-list] corn gluten/ration
>>
>>
>> Does anyone have any experience/information with feeding corn
>> gluten? Our local hay supplier uses it for his cattle during the
>> winter. It's 1/2 the price of whole corn.
>>
>> From what I've been able to garner from the web, it wouldn't be
>> recommended as the complete diet. Also the copper content can be
>> variable. I didn't see the bag it came in, so didn't get a chance
>> to read the label.
>>
>> This year I'm going back to mixing my own feed ration. I did it
>> for about 8 years, but went to premixes when I got more sheep.
>> The sheep did very well on my mix. I liked the Blue Seal sheep
>> feed, but we just lost the Blue Seal dealer that was 35 miles
>> away in SC. The next closest is 65 miles in NC and the cost in
>> time and gas just doesn't make sense to me.
>>
>> My sheep mix consists of whole corn, whole oats, soybean meal,
>> wheat bran, and livestock molasses. I'd appreciate hearing from
>> others that mix their own feeds and what home made mixes have
>> worked for you.
>>
>> Thank you,
>> Linda
>>
>>
>>  
>> http://www.patchworkfibers.com
>> Registered Jacob Sheep, Handspun Yarn  
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Jacob-list mailing list, sponsored by Swallow Lane Farm &
>> Fiberworks
>> Jacob-list at jacobsheep.com
>> http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/jacob-list
? 
http://www.patchworkfibers.com 
Registered Jacob Sheep, Handspun Yarn  
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From lynettefrick at gmail.com  Sun Nov  2 12:22:54 2008
From: lynettefrick at gmail.com (Lynette Frick)
Date: Sun, 2 Nov 2008 09:22:54 -0800
Subject: [Jacob-list] Question on Choking
Message-ID: <22872c750811020922x3a2e0d2ay50b5fd9e659b0d2@mail.gmail.com>

I had a ewe choke on hay just two weeks ago, no grain here either. I have
had it happen with my suffolks before, presumably because they are so
greedy, but never with a Jacob. She had foam coming out her nose, and was
caughing up foam for quite a while. I don't have a tube, so was pretty
helpless. Looks like a new tool to add to the list. She managed to get it
up, but had inhaled quite a bit of the foam. If anyone else has this
problem, it would probably be a good idea to give a full round of Nuflor, to
prevent pnumonia, asap. She did get pnumonia by the next morning, had a 106*
temp, but was eating by the next day after her first shot of Nuflor IM.

Hope this helps,

Lynette Frick
IDEAL FARM
Jacob Sheep
www.idealjacobsheep.com
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From rlynde at onramp113.org  Sun Nov  2 13:10:01 2008
From: rlynde at onramp113.org (Robin Lynde)
Date: Sun, 2 Nov 2008 10:10:01 -0800
Subject: [Jacob-list] Question on Choking
References: <22872c750811020922x3a2e0d2ay50b5fd9e659b0d2@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <795A03C18111418DAA9AADCD71D9C4B9@your4dacd0ea75>

I'm not sure that coughing and foaming always means choking. In fact that would not be my first thought. I had one a few years ago that was coughing and foamy. I can't remember the details but it was not choking. The foam was an indication of some other kind of problem. Just this summer I had a ram lamb who was coughing up hay and foam. He actually had a severe case of bluetongue and I'd been treating him to prevent pneumonia (secondary to the bluetongue).  The vet happened to be here that day because the UC Davis Vet School is working on a new test for bluetongue and they wanted to draw blood from some of my sheep to try it out. She told me that sheep with bluetongue can get lesions all the way down into the esophagus and that has something to do with the involuntary vomiting that we were seeing. I ended up with about half a dozen sheep who were sick with bluetongue. Lynette, that is something that I would suspect with that high fever, if you don't also have respiratory symptoms that would indicate pneumonia. Mine didn't have any respiratory symptoms--lethargic, lying down due to sore feet, not wanting to eat due to sore mouths. (Please do not confuse this with foot and mouth or soremouth--it has nothing to do with that.) None of my sheep died and it was interesting that it was only lambs, yearlings and a 2-year old that had it. I think the older sheep must have immunity. I may vaccinate next year if the test shows that the strain I had is one in the vaccine. By the way bluetongue causes horrible birth defects, so I postponed my breeding.
Robin Lynde
Meridian Jacobs
Vacaville, CA 
www.meridianjacobs.com 
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Lynette Frick 
  To: jacob-list at jacobsheep.com 
  Sent: Sunday, November 02, 2008 9:22 AM
  Subject: [Jacob-list] Question on Choking


  I had a ewe choke on hay just two weeks ago, no grain here either. I have had it happen with my suffolks before, presumably because they are so greedy, but never with a Jacob. She had foam coming out her nose, and was caughing up foam for quite a while. I don't have a tube, so was pretty helpless. Looks like a new tool to add to the list. She managed to get it up, but had inhaled quite a bit of the foam. If anyone else has this problem, it would probably be a good idea to give a full round of Nuflor, to prevent pnumonia, asap. She did get pnumonia by the next morning, had a 106* temp, but was eating by the next day after her first shot of Nuflor IM. 

  Hope this helps,

  Lynette Frick
  IDEAL FARM 
  Jacob Sheep
  www.idealjacobsheep.com 


------------------------------------------------------------------------------


  _______________________________________________
  Jacob-list mailing list, sponsored by Swallow Lane Farm & Fiberworks
  Jacob-list at jacobsheep.com
  http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/jacob-list
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From aztreaz at earthlink.net  Sun Nov  2 13:30:03 2008
From: aztreaz at earthlink.net (ARTHUR PARTRIDGE)
Date: Sun, 2 Nov 2008 10:30:03 -0800
Subject: [Jacob-list] corn gluten/ration
Message-ID: <410-22008110218303875@earthlink.net>

--Linda wrote:
>My sheep mix consists of whole corn, whole oats, soybean meal, wheat bran,
and 
>livestock molasses. I'd appreciate hearing from others that mix their own
feeds 
>and what home made mixes have worked for you. 
> 
>Thank you,
>Linda
========
Just watch the calcium/phosphorus ratio when feeding wethers and rams to
avoid urinary calculi.  It should be a  2:1 ratio.  I've heard that grains
are higher in phosphorus than calcium..  Maybe not feed the sheep mix to
the 'boys' or add a calcium supplement depending on the chemical makeup'. 
Perhaps you can find out the mineral content online or consult sheep
nutritionist Bill K at:
>
bk Sheep Nutrition Services. Bear Lake Enterprises, Inc. bk offers you:
Custom 
designed mineral mixes using bkSheep Base ... Expert nutritional advice ...
http://www.bksheep.com/ -
>
Also ask him about feeding the corn gluten.  I buy the bagged commercial
pellet feed that has some whole corn and the C/P ratio is approx. 2:1.

Cathy
Moscow, Idaho



From fabrega at pacbell.net  Sun Nov  2 13:43:21 2008
From: fabrega at pacbell.net (Francis Martinez)
Date: Sun, 2 Nov 2008 10:43:21 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Jacob-list] looking for jacobs wool
Message-ID: <705704.55700.qm@web81705.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Hi you all:? I am looking for natural jacobs wool for knitting-prefer organic/no chemicals please-non smoker's house pets ok.....love to knit and I loveusing the wool..Thank you, Francie
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From patchworkfibers at alltel.net  Sun Nov  2 13:45:04 2008
From: patchworkfibers at alltel.net (Linda)
Date: Sun, 2 Nov 2008 13:45:04 -0500
Subject: [Jacob-list] corn gluten/ration
In-Reply-To: <410-22008110218303875@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <200811213454.694208@Linda-PC>

I don't keep wethers and I don't grain rams :-)  I did buy a ram knowing that 
had UC, but I believe that he had not been grained. 

I was hoping to hear from Neal about the corn gluten. I doubt I'll bother with 
it.

Linda

> --Linda wrote:
>> My sheep mix consists of whole corn, whole oats, soybean meal,
>> wheat bran,
> and
>> livestock molasses. I'd appreciate hearing from others that mix
>> their own
> feeds
>> and what home made mixes have worked for you.
>>
>> Thank you,
>> Linda
> ========
> Just watch the calcium/phosphorus ratio when feeding wethers and
> rams to
> avoid urinary calculi.  It should be a  2:1 ratio.  I've heard that
> grains
> are higher in phosphorus than calcium..  Maybe not feed the sheep
> mix to
> the 'boys' or add a calcium supplement depending on the chemical
> makeup'.
> Perhaps you can find out the mineral content online or consult sheep
> nutritionist Bill K at:
>
> bk Sheep Nutrition Services. Bear Lake Enterprises, Inc. bk offers
> you:
> Custom
> designed mineral mixes using bkSheep Base ... Expert nutritional
> advice ...
> http://www.bksheep.com/ -
>
> Also ask him about feeding the corn gluten.  I buy the bagged
> commercial
> pellet feed that has some whole corn and the C/P ratio is approx.
> 2:1.
>
> Cathy
> Moscow, Idaho
? 
http://www.patchworkfibers.com 
Registered Jacob Sheep, Handspun Yarn  
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From patchworkfibers at alltel.net  Sun Nov  2 13:50:09 2008
From: patchworkfibers at alltel.net (Linda)
Date: Sun, 2 Nov 2008 13:50:09 -0500
Subject: [Jacob-list] PS on graining
Message-ID: <200811213509.342877@Linda-PC>

A number of people have replied that they seldom grain. Does that mean that you 
don't grain late gestation ewes? I think most people are graining lactating 
ewes, but maybe not? How about lambs? 

I am assuming that the people that don't grain have good pasture or is it hay 
all year round?

Linda
? 
http://www.patchworkfibers.com 
Registered Jacob Sheep, Handspun Yarn  
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From gotothewhip at aol.com  Sun Nov  2 14:00:52 2008
From: gotothewhip at aol.com (gotothewhip at aol.com)
Date: Sun, 02 Nov 2008 14:00:52 -0500
Subject: [Jacob-list] PS on graining
In-Reply-To: <200811213509.342877@Linda-PC>
References: <200811213509.342877@Linda-PC>
Message-ID: <8CB0B3475F651B7-D98-1DC@WEBMAIL-MZ08.sysops.aol.com>


 


 No grain here unless they are older or not producing enough milk.... Mine are on 2nd cutting alfalfa.? I do grain my lambs


 

-----Original Message-----
From: Linda <patchworkfibers at alltel.net>
To: jacob-list <jacob-list at jacobsheep.com>
Sent: Sun, 2 Nov 2008 11:50 am
Subject: [Jacob-list] PS on graining












A number of people have replied that they seldom grain. Does that mean that you don't grain late gestation ewes? I think most people are graining lactating ewes, but maybe not? How about lambs? 


?


I am assuming that the people that don't grain have good pasture or is it hay all year round?


?


Linda


??

http://www.patchworkfibers.com 

Registered Jacob Sheep, Handspun Yarn ?


 





_______________________________________________
Jacob-list mailing list, sponsored by Swallow Lane Farm & Fiberworks
Jacob-list at jacobsheep.com
http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/jacob-list



 

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From nlgrose at yadtel.net  Sun Nov  2 14:03:45 2008
From: nlgrose at yadtel.net (Neal and Louise Grose)
Date: Sun, 2 Nov 2008 14:03:45 -0500
Subject: [Jacob-list] corn gluten/ration
References: <200811271231.615138@Linda-PC>
	<18D971F4F97D423892468CCA457F429E@your4dacd0ea75>
Message-ID: <1BDFAB1AFF4B42DBADEB8DA5F784E9D6@HAL2>

In Linda and my ['s ?] area, sheep are not likely to fatten on hay unless it is extremely good quality. Alfalfa and good quality orchardgrass will be less than 65 mcal/lb because of the summer heat and humidity. The total ration would have to be closer to 70 mcal/lb (California and Minnesota hay) to fatten lambs and support lactation. They may do better on fresh grazing this winter if there is a good supply of stockpiled grass grown after the weather cooled. That cold season grass stocklpiles extra sugars in the stem to use for anti-freeze.

We use corn gluten feed and distillers grain in cattle rations with no problem, but keep it less than 1/4 of the ration. 

Here's an idea: With bio-diesel coming on the market, glycerol will become more available and relatively cheep if you want to pour that over your feed. It has as much energy per pound as corn.

Neal Grose
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Robin Lynde 
  To: Linda ; Jacob-list at jacobsheep.com 
  Sent: Sunday, November 02, 2008 11:53 AM
  Subject: Re: [Jacob-list] corn gluten/ration


  I wouldn't feed something with questionable copper content no matter how good a deal it seems. Also, is this because hay in your area isn't of good quality? I feed hardly feed grain at all and my sheep are fat on alfalfa. I do buy a little bit of grain but I use if sparingly. During lambing season I mix a medium size bucket of half COB and half alfalfa pellets (cheaper) and I spread that out in all the feeders. But this is one bucket for 50-60 sheep and goats so you know that they're all getting only a very small amount. This is one way I have of checking to see who might not be feeling good (ready to lamb).

  Speaking of alfalfa, I just got a donkey and now I'm realizing that since I'll be feeding alfalfa all winter, the donkey will be getting that too unless I separate her. I didn't want to make life more complicated with this addition. Any advice from donkey owners?
  Robin Lynde
  Meridian Jacobs
  Vacaville, CA 
  www.meridianjacobs.com 
    ----- Original Message ----- 
    From: Linda 
    To: Jacob-list at jacobsheep.com 
    Sent: Sunday, November 02, 2008 4:12 AM
    Subject: [Jacob-list] corn gluten/ration


    Does anyone have any experience/information with feeding corn gluten? Our local hay supplier uses it for his cattle during the winter. It's 1/2 the price of whole corn. 

    From what I've been able to garner from the web, it wouldn't be recommended as the complete diet. Also the copper content can be variable. I didn't see the bag it came in, so didn't get a chance to read the label. 

    This year I'm going back to mixing my own feed ration. I did it for about 8 years, but went to premixes when I got more sheep. The sheep did very well on my mix. I liked the Blue Seal sheep feed, but we just lost the Blue Seal dealer that was 35 miles away in SC. The next closest is 65 miles in NC and the cost in time and gas just doesn't make sense to me. 

    My sheep mix consists of whole corn, whole oats, soybean meal, wheat bran, and livestock molasses. I'd appreciate hearing from others that mix their own feeds and what home made mixes have worked for you. 

    Thank you,
    Linda


      
    http://www.patchworkfibers.com 
    Registered Jacob Sheep, Handspun Yarn  



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From gotothewhip at aol.com  Sun Nov  2 14:04:39 2008
From: gotothewhip at aol.com (gotothewhip at aol.com)
Date: Sun, 02 Nov 2008 14:04:39 -0500
Subject: [Jacob-list] corn gluten/ration
In-Reply-To: <2008112121418.945647@Linda-PC>
Message-ID: <8CB0B34FD8531E7-D98-1F6@WEBMAIL-MZ08.sysops.aol.com>


 


 Have to keep rubbing in what a good farrier you have huh?? ;-)? I still am jealous as all get out.... I just got a new farrier, and hope things will be OK!? 

But ditto to what robin is saying Donkeys, specifically minis and smaller ones are VERY prone to founder... so too much of anything is a concern... Most do great on next to nothing!?? We feed alfalfa also, so I understand your worry.... I think a creep type set up to keep the donkey out of the good stuff is a good plan


 

-----Original Message-----
From: Linda <patchworkfibers at alltel.net>
To: Robin Lynde <rlynde at onramp113.org>; Jacob-list at jacobsheep.com
Sent: Sun, 2 Nov 2008 10:14 am
Subject: Re: [Jacob-list] corn gluten/ration












My experience, and the experience of our farrier (Pete Ramey http://www.hoofrehab.com/) is that alfalfa and grain are hell on a donkey's feet. We did just sell our last donkey last month (we had five at one time). I fed the sheep in an area with a creep gate and kept the nutritional tubs in there, away from the donkeys. The donkeys did vary as to how grain would affect hoof growth, but you sure see the difference on all of them when they had access to alfalfa or grain.


?


The hay in our area is of fairly good quality, although we don't have access to alfalfa. I do feed alfalfa pellets and will be adding grain soon. I feed alfalfa pellets and grain in order to stretch our hay supply, which can be iffy. This year, it looks like we have plenty, but if the drought continues into spring, we may end up short.


?


Linda


?







> I wouldn't feed something with questionable copper content no


> matter how good a deal it seems. Also, is this because hay in your


> area isn't of good quality? I?feed hardly feed grain at all and my


> sheep are fat on alfalfa. I do buy a little bit of grain but I use


> if sparingly. During lambing season I mix a medium size bucket of


> half COB and half alfalfa pellets (cheaper) and I spread that out


> in all the feeders. But this is one bucket for 50-60 sheep and


> goats so you know that they're all getting only a very small


> amount. This is one way I have of checking to see who might not be


> feeling good (ready to lamb).


>


> Speaking of alfalfa, I just got a donkey and now I'm realizing that


> since I'll be feeding alfalfa all winter, the donkey will be


> getting that too unless I separate her. I didn't want to make life


> more complicated with this addition. Any advice from donkey owners?


> Robin Lynde


> Meridian Jacobs


> Vacaville, CA


> www.meridianjacobs.com


>> ----- Original Message -----


>> From: Linda


>> To: Jacob-list at jacobsheep.com


>> Sent: Sunday, November 02, 2008 4:12 AM


>> Subject: [Jacob-list] corn gluten/ration


>>


>>


>> Does anyone have any experience/information with feeding corn


>> gluten? Our local hay supplier uses it for his cattle during the


>> winter. It's 1/2 the price of whole corn.


>>


>> From what I've been able to garner from the web, it wouldn't be


>> recommended as the complete diet. Also the copper content can be


>> variable. I didn't see the bag it came in, so didn't get a chance


>> to read the label.


>>


>> This year I'm going back to mixing my own feed ration. I did it


>> for about 8 years, but went to premixes when I got more sheep.


>> The sheep did very well on my mix. I liked the Blue Seal sheep


>> feed, but we just lost the Blue Seal dealer that was 35 miles


>> away in SC. The next closest is 65 miles in NC and the cost in


>> time and gas just doesn't make sense to me.


>>


>> My sheep mix consists of whole corn, whole oats, soybean meal,


>> wheat bran, and livestock molasses. I'd appreciate hearing from


>> others that mix their own feeds and what home made mixes have


>> worked for you.


>>


>> Thank you,


>> Linda


>>


>>


>> ?


>> http://www.patchworkfibers.com


>> Registered Jacob Sheep, Handspun Yarn ?


>>


>>


>> _______________________________________________


>> Jacob-list mailing list, sponsored by Swallow Lane Farm &


>> Fiberworks


>> Jacob-list at jacobsheep.com


>> http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/jacob-list


??

http://www.patchworkfibers.com 

Registered Jacob Sheep, Handspun Yarn ?


 





_______________________________________________
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Jacob-list at jacobsheep.com
http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/jacob-list



 

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From castlerockjacobs at yahoo.com  Sun Nov  2 14:07:03 2008
From: castlerockjacobs at yahoo.com (Victoria da Roza)
Date: Sun, 2 Nov 2008 11:07:03 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Jacob-list] Flock dispersal
In-Reply-To: <mailman.113.1225643726.37754.jacob-list@jacobsheep.com>
Message-ID: <684014.22600.qm@web57007.mail.re3.yahoo.com>

HI All,
   Today Joan and Simon Gross from outside of Redding are coming to pick up my flock which I sold for virtually nothing....but...on the other hand  The Gross's are just getting into sheep and are young and healthy and I hope my breeding plan will bring them a great future. I have been crying for 2 days but sometimes life gives you no choice...it is difficult to have birthed them all and see them go but it is better than just going to auction.  I feel good that they will still be together and it is far enough away that I will not see them by chance.  I have enjoyed being part of the Jacob group and have learned a lot from all of you.  I appreciated all your patience and tolerance with my many questions getting started.  Special thanks to Robin Lynde and Gary Anderson.
  I am going off the list but if I can answer anything in the future, please write me directly.

Victoria
Castle Rock Farm
Jacob Sheep & Nigerian Dwarf Goats
www.castlerockfarm.net
Walnut Creek, Calif.

"Do not go where the path might lead
But go instead where there is no path and leave a trail"


--- On Sun, 11/2/08, jacob-list-request at jacobsheep.com <jacob-list-request at jacobsheep.com> wrote:

> From: jacob-list-request at jacobsheep.com <jacob-list-request at jacobsheep.com>
> Subject: Jacob-list Digest, Vol 51, Issue 1
> To: jacob-list at jacobsheep.com
> Date: Sunday, November 2, 2008, 8:35 AM
> Send Jacob-list mailing list submissions to
> 	jacob-list at jacobsheep.com
> 
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
> 	http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/jacob-list
> or, via email, send a message with subject or body
> 'help' to
> 	jacob-list-request at jacobsheep.com
> 
> You can reach the person managing the list at
> 	jacob-list-owner at jacobsheep.com
> 
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more
> specific
> than "Re: Contents of Jacob-list digest..."
> 
> 
> Today's Topics:
> 
>    1. Question on choking (gotothewhip at aol.com)
>    2. Re: Question on choking (gotothewhip at aol.com)
>    3. Re: Choking (JACI SIEHL)
>    4. corn gluten/ration (Linda)
>    5. Re: corn gluten/ration (Cathy Robinson)
> 
> 
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> Message: 1
> Date: Sat, 01 Nov 2008 12:24:52 -0400
> From: gotothewhip at aol.com
> Subject: [Jacob-list] Question on choking
> To: jacob-list at jacobsheep.com
> Message-ID:
> <8CB0A5580CF48B1-AD0-23EA at MBLK-M24.sysops.aol.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
> 
> I just got a call from a lady who bought some sheep from me
> this summer.? She is new to jacobs, but owns Baby Doll
> Southdowns, and takes amazing care of her animals.
> 
> The yearling ram I sold her was coughing up chewed up hay.?
> I went thru the normal choke questions.... She was feeding
> NO grain at all, and the hay he was fed, he was not real
> greedy about taking in, he nibbled at it.? No big changes in
> the feed either.? She had called both local vets, but
> neither was available.
> 
> This morning, he was hunched up, and foamy....and while
> explaining the situation to me he died.? Ive never had a
> sheep choke on hay before.. any insight?
> 
> Jennifer Tucker
> www.MoosMtnRanch.com
> Bennett, CO
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> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 2
> Date: Sat, 01 Nov 2008 15:27:59 -0400
> From: gotothewhip at aol.com
> Subject: Re: [Jacob-list] Question on choking
> To: brenda at brenalanfarm.com, jacob-list at jacobsheep.com
> Message-ID:
> <8CB0A6F15AAAC8D-8F8-753 at WEBMAIL-MC02.sysops.aol.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
> 
> 
>  She had the vet out to necorpsy.. it was an obstruction of
> the esophagus The vet said the only way to clear it would
> have been to tube him immediately as it was hay that was
> causing the choke.? I have another ram for her now.... I
> know I don't NEED to replace him, but with them being
> new Jacob folks I want to keep this fun and them interested
> in the breed and not discouraged.. so they have first pick
> of my 09 ram lambs... She doesn't need a ram this year
> as all the ewes they bought from me were bred to diffrent
> rams (So she could breed both momma and any 09 ewe lambs to
> the ram she bought)? I still cant believe he choked on
> Hay.... that is truly a first I have heard of. Such a
> shame... the ram she had is still on the for sale page of my
> website.. a nice lilac 2 horn ram.... 
> 
> Jennifer
> www.MooseMtnRanch.com? 
> 
> 
> 
>  
> 
> 
>  
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Brenda <brenda at brenalanfarm.com>
> To: gotothewhip at aol.com
> Sent: Sat, 1 Nov 2008 1:50 pm
> Subject: Re: [Jacob-list] Question on choking
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Anyone considering a necropsy? If it was physical 
> choking or a problem severe enough to cause choking, it
> should take minimal time 
> and expense for a vet to figure it out. Or she could open
> him up and SEE if 
> anything jumps out at her. I have seen choking on feed
> before with foamy drool, 
> but it was always clearly eating too fast. The
> "hunched up" part makes me think 
> he might have been having some pain in the midsection if it
> wasn't just hunching 
> while coughing. Sorry she lost her ram. Shannon has a nice
> ram if she is looking 
> for replacements- one that was returned due to owner's
> illness, not because he 
> isn't a fine boy, and his price is less than he is
> worth.
> 
> 
> ?
> 
> 
> Brenda
> 
> 
> 
>   
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> 
>   
> From: 
>   gotothewhip at aol.com 
> 
>   
> To: jacob-list at jacobsheep.com 
> 
>   
> Sent: Saturday, November 01, 2008 8:24 
>   AM
> 
>   
> Subject: [Jacob-list] Question on 
>   choking
> 
>   
> 
> 
> I just got a call 
>   from a lady who bought some sheep from me this summer.?
> She is new to 
>   jacobs, but owns Baby Doll Southdowns, and takes amazing
> care of her 
>   animals.
> 
> The yearling ram I sold her was coughing up chewed up 
>   hay.? I went thru the normal choke questions.... She was
> feeding NO grain 
>   at all, and the hay he was fed, he was not real greedy
> about taking in, he 
>   nibbled at it.? No big changes in the feed either.? She
> had called 
>   both local vets, but neither was available.
> 
> This morning, he was 
>   hunched up, and foamy....and while explaining the
> situation to me he 
>   died.? Ive never had a sheep choke on hay before.. any 
>   insight?
> 
> Jennifer Tucker
> www.MoosMtnRanch.com
> Bennett, 
>   CO
> 
>   
> 
> 
>   
> 
> 
>   McCain or Obama? Stay up to date on the latest from the
> campaign trail 
>   with AOL 
>   News. 
> 
>   
> 
>   
> 
> 
> 
> 
>   
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Jacob-list mailing 
>   list, sponsored by Swallow Lane Farm & 
>   Fiberworks
> Jacob-list at jacobsheep.com
> http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/jacob-list
> 
> 
>  
> 
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> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 3
> Date: Sat, 1 Nov 2008 19:21:38 -0700 (PDT)
> From: JACI SIEHL <wedohoney at sbcglobal.net>
> Subject: Re: [Jacob-list] Choking
> To: Jacob-list at jacobsheep.com
> Message-ID:
> <172449.80635.qm at web80605.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
> 
> I have a friend with an older polypay ewe that was
> choking.? Hay would get caught around the tooth and get hung
> up in the esophagus causing choking and foaming.? My friend
> reached in and found a large clump of hay that appeared to
> be very old and putrid that was wrapped around?a loose?tooth
> and halfway down the throat.? This also caused some stomach
> issues.? The vet pulled the tooth and?soon everything was
> fine.
> ?
> Jaci Siehl
> Sugarpine Jacobs
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> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 4
> Date: Sun, 2 Nov 2008 07:12:31 -0500
> From: Linda <patchworkfibers at alltel.net>
> Subject: [Jacob-list] corn gluten/ration
> To: <Jacob-list at jacobsheep.com>
> Message-ID: <200811271231.615138 at Linda-PC>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
> 
> Does anyone have any experience/information with feeding
> corn gluten? Our local 
> hay supplier uses it for his cattle during the winter.
> It's 1/2 the price of 
> whole corn. 
> 
>  From what I've been able to garner from the web, it
> wouldn't be recommended as 
> the complete diet. Also the copper content can be variable.
> I didn't see the bag 
> it came in, so didn't get a chance to read the label. 
> 
> This year I'm going back to mixing my own feed ration.
> I did it for about 8 
> years, but went to premixes when I got more sheep. The
> sheep did very well on my 
> mix. I liked the Blue Seal sheep feed, but we just lost the
> Blue Seal dealer 
> that was 35 miles away in SC. The next closest is 65 miles
> in NC and the cost in 
> time and gas just doesn't make sense to me. 
> 
> My sheep mix consists of whole corn, whole oats, soybean
> meal, wheat bran, and 
> livestock molasses. I'd appreciate hearing from others
> that mix their own feeds 
> and what home made mixes have worked for you. 
> 
> Thank you,
> Linda
> 
> 
> ? 
> http://www.patchworkfibers.com 
> Registered Jacob Sheep, Handspun Yarn  
> -------------- next part --------------
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> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 5
> Date: Sun, 02 Nov 2008 11:35:25 -0500
> From: Cathy Robinson <perfectspot at bellsouth.net>
> Subject: Re: [Jacob-list] corn gluten/ration
> To: Linda <patchworkfibers at alltel.net>
> Cc: Jacob-list at jacobsheep.com
> Message-ID: <490DD6CD.8010205 at bellsouth.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1";
> Format="flowed"
> 
> I hope those who respond to Linda's question will reply
> to the list. 
> I was thinking about this same subject yesterday, in
> preparation for 
> winter feeding, wondering how we could simplify and
> economize here. 
> Good timing, Linda! 
> 
> Cathy
> Perfect Spot Farm
> 
> Linda wrote:
> > Does anyone have any experience/information with
> feeding corn gluten? 
> > Our local hay supplier uses it for his cattle during
> the winter. It's 
> > 1/2 the price of whole corn.
> >  
> > My sheep mix consists of whole corn, whole oats,
> soybean meal, wheat 
> > bran, and livestock molasses. I'd appreciate
> hearing from others that 
> > mix their own feeds and what home made mixes have
> worked for you.
> >  
> > Thank you,
> > Linda
> -------------- next part --------------
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> <http://www.pairlist.net/pipermail/jacob-list/attachments/20081102/5a0729f5/attachment.htm>
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Jacob-list mailing list
> Jacob-list at jacobsheep.com
> http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/jacob-list
> 
> 
> End of Jacob-list Digest, Vol 51, Issue 1
> *****************************************


      

From nlgrose at yadtel.net  Sun Nov  2 14:12:39 2008
From: nlgrose at yadtel.net (Neal and Louise Grose)
Date: Sun, 2 Nov 2008 14:12:39 -0500
Subject: [Jacob-list] Question on Choking
References: <22872c750811020922x3a2e0d2ay50b5fd9e659b0d2@mail.gmail.com>
	<795A03C18111418DAA9AADCD71D9C4B9@your4dacd0ea75>
Message-ID: <56EA71C0F71B425B957AE219C77C774A@HAL2>

I take blue-tongue results with a grain of salt. (Not to doubt that you have had a problem...) We have a large deer population, and as a result, when we test the whole herd for blue-tongue, we often get 25 - 50% positive. To my knowledge, we have never had a case of blue-tongue. 

We have had some anxious wild-life rangers worried about deer dying of "black-tongue".

Neal
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Robin Lynde 
  To: Lynette Frick ; jacob-list at jacobsheep.com 
  Sent: Sunday, November 02, 2008 1:10 PM
  Subject: Re: [Jacob-list] Question on Choking


  I'm not sure that coughing and foaming always means choking. In fact that would not be my first thought. I had one a few years ago that was coughing and foamy. I can't remember the details but it was not choking. The foam was an indication of some other kind of problem. Just this summer I had a ram lamb who was coughing up hay and foam. He actually had a severe case of bluetongue and I'd been treating him to prevent pneumonia (secondary to the bluetongue).  The vet happened to be here that day because the UC Davis Vet School is working on a new test for bluetongue and they wanted to draw blood from some of my sheep to try it out. She told me that sheep with bluetongue can get lesions all the way down into the esophagus and that has something to do with the involuntary vomiting that we were seeing. I ended up with about half a dozen sheep who were sick with bluetongue. Lynette, that is something that I would suspect with that high fever, if you don't also have respiratory symptoms that would indicate pneumonia. Mine didn't have any respiratory symptoms--lethargic, lying down due to sore feet, not wanting to eat due to sore mouths. (Please do not confuse this with foot and mouth or soremouth--it has nothing to do with that.) None of my sheep died and it was interesting that it was only lambs, yearlings and a 2-year old that had it. I think the older sheep must have immunity. I may vaccinate next year if the test shows that the strain I had is one in the vaccine. By the way bluetongue causes horrible birth defects, so I postponed my breeding.
  Robin Lynde
  Meridian Jacobs
  Vacaville, CA 
  www.meridianjacobs.com 
    ----- Original Message ----- 
    From: Lynette Frick 
    To: jacob-list at jacobsheep.com 
    Sent: Sunday, November 02, 2008 9:22 AM
    Subject: [Jacob-list] Question on Choking


    I had a ewe choke on hay just two weeks ago, no grain here either. I have had it happen with my suffolks before, presumably because they are so greedy, but never with a Jacob. She had foam coming out her nose, and was caughing up foam for quite a while. I don't have a tube, so was pretty helpless. Looks like a new tool to add to the list. She managed to get it up, but had inhaled quite a bit of the foam. If anyone else has this problem, it would probably be a good idea to give a full round of Nuflor, to prevent pnumonia, asap. She did get pnumonia by the next morning, had a 106* temp, but was eating by the next day after her first shot of Nuflor IM. 

    Hope this helps,

    Lynette Frick
    IDEAL FARM 
    Jacob Sheep
    www.idealjacobsheep.com 


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From messen at socket.net  Sun Nov  2 16:05:08 2008
From: messen at socket.net (Mark Essen)
Date: Sun, 2 Nov 2008 15:05:08 -0600
Subject: [Jacob-list] corn gluten/ration
In-Reply-To: <1BDFAB1AFF4B42DBADEB8DA5F784E9D6@HAL2>
References: <200811271231.615138@Linda-PC><18D971F4F97D423892468CCA457F429E@your4dacd0ea75>
	<1BDFAB1AFF4B42DBADEB8DA5F784E9D6@HAL2>
Message-ID: <57D63D5E2D7D4EC0A392734C7667CABD@famousacresPC>

I have done quite a bit of research into biodiesel and feeding glycerol.  The university of Missouri did a study and found that it had quite a bit of potential.  But there is a very big caution.  Be sure to get your glycerol from a good source.  Many people are producing biodiesel very well in their garage, but some home brewers do not fully understand.  The first stage of the glycerol by-product is still fairly contaminated with methanol.  There have been some fairly large livestock disasters from people feeding this to livestock.  Be sure that the Methanol has been distilled from the glycerol.  Methanol is getting expensive, so most producers, large and small, are recovering the methanol.  Glycerol has the potential to save us some money and provide a good feed source, but please be careful.

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From patchworkfibers at alltel.net  Sun Nov  2 18:17:28 2008
From: patchworkfibers at alltel.net (Linda)
Date: Sun, 2 Nov 2008 18:17:28 -0500
Subject: [Jacob-list] corn gluten/ration
In-Reply-To: <8CB0B34FD8531E7-D98-1F6@WEBMAIL-MZ08.sysops.aol.com>
Message-ID: <2008112181728.966226@Linda-PC>

*smile*. I have to say that I'm going to miss Pete now that we've sold the last 
donkey. He's an interesting person and quite the story teller.

We didn't worry as much about founder as the fact that anything extra makes the 
hooves grow at an accelerated rate, so more frequent trimming was required to 
maintain hoof health.  I also can't stand to see donkeys that start getting 
those fat deposits along their necks and spines. 

I still miss our donkeys, though. Leading Arwen to the trailer on her way to her 
new home was a real tear jerker. If we ever get out of this drought, I'll 
probably be looking for another one!

Linda

> Have to keep rubbing in what a good farrier you have huh?  ;-)  I
> still am jealous as all get out.... I just got a new farrier, and
> hope things will be OK! 
>
> But ditto to what robin is saying Donkeys, specifically minis and
> smaller ones are VERY prone to founder... so too much of anything
> is a concern... Most do great on next to nothing!   We feed alfalfa
> also, so I understand your worry.... I think a creep type set up to
> keep the donkey out of the good stuff is a good plan
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Linda <patchworkfibers at alltel.net>
> To: Robin Lynde <rlynde at onramp113.org> Jacob-list at jacobsheep.com
> Sent: Sun, 2 Nov 2008 10:14 am
> Subject: Re: [Jacob-list] corn gluten/ration
>
> My experience, and the experience of our farrier (Pete Ramey
> http://www.hoofrehab.com/) is that alfalfa and grain are hell on a
> donkey's feet. We did just sell our last donkey last month (we had
> five at one time). I fed the sheep in an area with a creep gate and
> kept the nutritional tubs in there, away from the donkeys. The
> donkeys did vary as to how grain would affect hoof growth, but you
> sure see the difference on all of them when they had access to
> alfalfa or grain.
>
> The hay in our area is of fairly good quality, although we don't
> have access to alfalfa. I do feed alfalfa pellets and will be
> adding grain soon. I feed alfalfa pellets and grain in order to
> stretch our hay supply, which can be iffy. This year, it looks like
> we have plenty, but if the drought continues into spring, we may
> end up short.
>
> Linda
>
>
>> I wouldn't feed something with questionable copper content no
>> matter how good a deal it seems. Also, is this because hay in your
>> area isn't of good quality? I feed hardly feed grain at all and my
>> sheep are fat on alfalfa. I do buy a little bit of grain but I use
>> if sparingly. During lambing season I mix a medium size bucket of
>> half COB and half alfalfa pellets (cheaper) and I spread that out
>> in all the feeders. But this is one bucket for 50-60 sheep and
>> goats so you know that they're all getting only a very small
>> amount. This is one way I have of checking to see who might not be
>> feeling good (ready to lamb).
>>
>> Speaking of alfalfa, I just got a donkey and now I'm realizing
>> that
>> since I'll be feeding alfalfa all winter, the donkey will be
>> getting that too unless I separate her. I didn't want to make life
>> more complicated with this addition. Any advice from donkey
>> owners?
>> Robin Lynde
>> Meridian Jacobs
>> Vacaville, CA
>> www.meridianjacobs.com
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: Linda
>>> To: Jacob-list at jacobsheep.com
>>> Sent: Sunday, November 02, 2008 4:12 AM
>>> Subject: [Jacob-list] corn gluten/ration
>>>
>>>
>>> Does anyone have any experience/information with feeding corn
>>> gluten? Our local hay supplier uses it for his cattle during the
>>> winter. It's 1/2 the price of whole corn.
>>>
>>> From what I've been able to garner from the web, it wouldn't be
>>> recommended as the complete diet. Also the copper content can be
>>> variable. I didn't see the bag it came in, so didn't get a
>>> chance
>>> to read the label.
>>>
>>> This year I'm going back to mixing my own feed ration. I did it
>>> for about 8 years, but went to premixes when I got more sheep.
>>> The sheep did very well on my mix. I liked the Blue Seal sheep
>>> feed, but we just lost the Blue Seal dealer that was 35 miles
>>> away in SC. The next closest is 65 miles in NC and the cost in
>>> time and gas just doesn't make sense to me.
>>>
>>> My sheep mix consists of whole corn, whole oats, soybean meal,
>>> wheat bran, and livestock molasses. I'd appreciate hearing from
>>> others that mix their own feeds and what home made mixes have
>>> worked for you.
>>>
>>> Thank you,
>>> Linda
>>>
>>>
>>> http://www.patchworkfibers.com
>>> Registered Jacob Sheep, Handspun Yarn  
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Jacob-list mailing list, sponsored by Swallow Lane Farm &
>>> Fiberworks
>>> Jacob-list at jacobsheep.com
>>> http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/jacob-list
>  
> http://www.patchworkfibers.com
> Registered Jacob Sheep, Handspun Yarn  
>
> _______________________________________________
> Jacob-list mailing list, sponsored by Swallow Lane Farm & Fiberworks
> Jacob-list at jacobsheep.com
> http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/jacob-list
>
>
> McCain or Obama? Stay up to date on the latest from the campaign
> trail with  AOL News.
? 
http://www.patchworkfibers.com 
Registered Jacob Sheep, Handspun Yarn  
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From rlynde at onramp113.org  Sun Nov  2 18:29:57 2008
From: rlynde at onramp113.org (Robin Lynde)
Date: Sun, 2 Nov 2008 15:29:57 -0800
Subject: [Jacob-list] Question on Choking
References: <22872c750811020922x3a2e0d2ay50b5fd9e659b0d2@mail.gmail.com><795A03C18111418DAA9AADCD71D9C4B9@your4dacd0ea75>
	<56EA71C0F71B425B957AE219C77C774A@HAL2>
Message-ID: <A5F985BC53F948EFBB32939A12D68DD7@your4dacd0ea75>




  I take blue-tongue results with a grain of salt. (Not to doubt that you have had a problem...) 

          The sheep with blue tongue were definitely sick. After the first one I scrutinized the flock and picked out the ones that didn't look right. This was over the period of a few weeks. There were only about 6 (out of 70-80 sheep) that showed definite symptoms so those are the ones we tested. They are working on a test to find the virus in the blood instead of antibodies. This would be a test that would give same-day results. At least that's my understanding of it. I would be curious about how many others would test positive--either exposed with no symptoms or mild versions.  We have irrigated pasture and the mosquitoes were terrible this year. I assume that the gnat population would be as bad even though I don't see them because the mosquitoes get in the way! 
  Robin Lynde
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From patchworkfibers at alltel.net  Sun Nov  2 18:52:37 2008
From: patchworkfibers at alltel.net (Linda)
Date: Sun, 2 Nov 2008 18:52:37 -0500
Subject: [Jacob-list] corn gluten/ration
In-Reply-To: <1BDFAB1AFF4B42DBADEB8DA5F784E9D6@HAL2>
Message-ID: <2008112185237.468628@Linda-PC>

Do you feed corn gluten to your sheep? I've seen a number of references to 
feeding it to sheep. One mentioned copper content as not always being 
consistent. I have not seen a bag of this, so don't know if the copper content 
is listed on the tag. My hay guy buys it by the ton, but it is available bagged. 
Russ does mix it, but I'm not sure of the percentage. I doubt I will use it, as 
I'm finding that driving two hours to save $4 isn't all that practical - even if 
(or maybe especially because)  I get to sneak in a trip to my favorite Chinese 
restaurant.

Thanks, Neal, for pointing out that our hay may not be the quality of hay in 
other areas.  Alfalfa is grown just a bit north of us, but the dairy goat people 
I know don't consider it anywhere near the quality of the northern grown 
alfalfa. 

Jacob Sheep are incredibly adaptive. That does not just mean that they are able 
to flourish untended on an island off the coast of Maine or ungrained on good 
pasture. It also means that they can flourish on tiny plots of land with no 
pasture. And everywhere in between. I'm somewhere in between, with finally some 
pasture that has been really hard to get established from wooded land during a 
drought. I'm pretty much going to do what I can to protect what grass I've got 
going at this point. My goal is to rely on pasture more and we're constantly 
working on clearing and seeding. I doubt we will ever be at the point here that 
we will be able to totally eliminate grain during some times of the year.

Linda

> In Linda and my ['s ?] area, sheep are not likely to fatten on hay
> unless it is extremely good quality. Alfalfa and good quality
> orchardgrass will be less than 65 mcal/lb because of the summer
> heat and humidity. The total ration would have to be closer to 70
> mcal/lb (California and Minnesota hay) to fatten lambs and support 
> lactation. They may do better on fresh grazing this winter if there
> is a good supply of stockpiled grass grown after the weather
> cooled. That cold season grass stocklpiles extra sugars in the stem
> to use for anti-freeze.
>
> We use corn gluten feed and distillers grain in cattle rations with
> no problem, but keep it less than 1/4 of the ration.
>
> Here's an idea: With bio-diesel coming on the market, glycerol will
> become more available and relatively cheep if you want to pour that
> over your feed. It has as much energy per pound as corn.
>
> Neal Grose
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: Robin Lynde
>> To: Linda ; Jacob-list at jacobsheep.com
>> Sent: Sunday, November 02, 2008 11:53 AM
>> Subject: Re: [Jacob-list] corn gluten/ration
>>
>>
>> I wouldn't feed something with questionable copper content no
>> matter how good a deal it seems. Also, is this because hay in
>> your area isn't of good quality? I feed hardly feed grain at all
>> and my sheep are fat on alfalfa. I do buy a little bit of grain
>> but I use if sparingly. During lambing season I mix a medium size
>> bucket of half COB and half alfalfa pellets (cheaper) and I
>> spread that out in all the feeders. But this is one bucket for 50-
>> 60 sheep and goats so you know that they're all getting only a
>> very small amount. This is one way I have of checking to see who
>> might not be feeling good (ready to lamb).
>>
>> Speaking of alfalfa, I just got a donkey and now I'm realizing
>> that since I'll be feeding alfalfa all winter, the donkey will be
>> getting that too unless I separate her. I didn't want to make
>> life more complicated with this addition. Any advice from donkey
>> owners?
>> Robin Lynde
>> Meridian Jacobs
>> Vacaville, CA
>> www.meridianjacobs.com
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: Linda
>>> To: Jacob-list at jacobsheep.com
>>> Sent: Sunday, November 02, 2008 4:12 AM
>>> Subject: [Jacob-list] corn gluten/ration
>>>
>>>
>>> Does anyone have any experience/information with feeding corn
>>> gluten? Our local hay supplier uses it for his cattle during
>>> the winter. It's 1/2 the price of whole corn.
>>>
>>> From what I've been able to garner from the web, it wouldn't be
>>> recommended as the complete diet. Also the copper content can
>>> be variable. I didn't see the bag it came in, so didn't get a
>>> chance to read the label.
>>>
>>> This year I'm going back to mixing my own feed ration. I did it
>>> for about 8 years, but went to premixes when I got more sheep.
>>> The sheep did very well on my mix. I liked the Blue Seal sheep
>>> feed, but we just lost the Blue Seal dealer that was 35 miles
>>> away in SC. The next closest is 65 miles in NC and the cost in
>>> time and gas just doesn't make sense to me.
>>>
>>> My sheep mix consists of whole corn, whole oats, soybean meal,
>>> wheat bran, and livestock molasses. I'd appreciate hearing from
>>> others that mix their own feeds and what home made mixes have
>>> worked for you.
>>>
>>> Thank you,
>>> Linda
>>>
>>>
>>>  
>>> http://www.patchworkfibers.com
>>> Registered Jacob Sheep, Handspun Yarn  
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Jacob-list mailing list, sponsored by Swallow Lane Farm &
>>> Fiberworks
>>> Jacob-list at jacobsheep.com
>>> http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/jacob-list
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Jacob-list mailing list, sponsored by Swallow Lane Farm &
>> Fiberworks
>> Jacob-list at jacobsheep.com
>> http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/jacob-list
? 
http://www.patchworkfibers.com 
Registered Jacob Sheep, Handspun Yarn  
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From wedohoney at sbcglobal.net  Mon Nov  3 01:30:58 2008
From: wedohoney at sbcglobal.net (JACI SIEHL)
Date: Sun, 2 Nov 2008 22:30:58 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Jacob-list] PS on graining
In-Reply-To: <200811213509.342877@Linda-PC>
Message-ID: <653752.76254.qm@web80601.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

I'm in CA with zero pasture so am on hay year round.? Although we don't have pasture we have a lot of pine and cedar trees which the sheep seem to thrive on.? Used to use alfalfa but switched to orchard grass.? No one gets grain except as a treat.?
?
Jaci Siehl?
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From nlgrose at yadtel.net  Mon Nov  3 05:25:09 2008
From: nlgrose at yadtel.net (Neal and Louise Grose)
Date: Mon, 3 Nov 2008 05:25:09 -0500
Subject: [Jacob-list] corn gluten/ration
References: <200811271231.615138@Linda-PC><18D971F4F97D423892468CCA457F429E@your4dacd0ea75><1BDFAB1AFF4B42DBADEB8DA5F784E9D6@HAL2>
	<57D63D5E2D7D4EC0A392734C7667CABD@famousacresPC>
Message-ID: <1E542CE8735E43D6A985AAA242324D1B@HAL2>

Any bi-product feed should be tested before it is fed. Feed testing is not that expensive. Corn distillers grain and glycerol have excellent feed values but can be variable. as the industry matures, we will see more standards placed on these products to make them more easily used. 

The ethanol industry needs corn as a stop gap to establish ethanol in the market. I expect to see more whole plant ethanol production come on line, but I hope we don't move wholesale to removing crop residue. This residue is an important resource for soil improvement and carbon sequestration. There is a promising experiment down in Louisiana to harvest sap from sweet sorghum in the field with a presser that looks like a huge combine, and leaves the residue.

Neal Grose
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Mark Essen 
  To: Jacob-list at jacobsheep.com 
  Sent: Sunday, November 02, 2008 4:05 PM
  Subject: Re: [Jacob-list] corn gluten/ration


  I have done quite a bit of research into biodiesel and feeding glycerol.  The university of Missouri did a study and found that it had quite a bit of potential.  But there is a very big caution.  Be sure to get your glycerol from a good source.  Many people are producing biodiesel very well in their garage, but some home brewers do not fully understand.  The first stage of the glycerol by-product is still fairly contaminated with methanol.  There have been some fairly large livestock disasters from people feeding this to livestock.  Be sure that the Methanol has been distilled from the glycerol.  Methanol is getting expensive, so most producers, large and small, are recovering the methanol.  Glycerol has the potential to save us some money and provide a good feed source, but please be careful.




------------------------------------------------------------------------------


  _______________________________________________
  Jacob-list mailing list, sponsored by Swallow Lane Farm & Fiberworks
  Jacob-list at jacobsheep.com
  http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/jacob-list
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From griffin45 at live.com  Thu Nov  6 14:11:54 2008
From: griffin45 at live.com (Chris and Tina Griffin)
Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2008 14:11:54 -0500
Subject: [Jacob-list] New to Jacobs
Message-ID: <BLU139-DS39DBA76195EBB6012E410D91E0@phx.gbl>

Hello All,
My wife and I are new to sheep and goats.  We were just going to get some goats, but the couple that we were buying from also wanted us to see and maybe purchase a pair of Jacob sheep.  As most of you can imagine, when we saw them we just had to have them.  It took me a couple of days to get separate pastures set up, but as of tomorrow we will have been the proud owners of a pair of beautiful unregistered Jacobs.  I am not sure why they are not registered.  I have been through all the information that I can find and they are, as far as I can tell, quite pure.  My biggest problem right now is that neither of the Jacobs were docked.  I am thinking that this is going to be one of the biggest problems that I am going to face.  They are both yearlings, born in early spring.  Should I dock now or leave them be.  If I don't dock, what do I do to make sure that the tails and hocks don't get invaded by maggots and other little nasties?  Thanks for the help in advance.

My wife and I own a small farm in south-central Virginia.  We have 7 goats (2 Nubians, 2 Nubian/Boers and 3 Nigerian Dwarves), 2 Jacob sheep, and an assortment of 32 chickens.

Have a Great and Blessed Day,
Chris and Tina Griffin
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From patchworkfibers at alltel.net  Thu Nov  6 14:27:12 2008
From: patchworkfibers at alltel.net (Linda)
Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2008 14:27:12 -0500
Subject: [Jacob-list] New to Jacobs
In-Reply-To: <BLU139-DS39DBA76195EBB6012E410D91E0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <2008116142712.457345@Linda-PC>

Congratulations! I hope you will consider registering your sheep :-)

Lots of breeders don't dock tails. I didn't for a few years, but have docked the last couple of years. I have sheep with docked and undocked tails in my flock. There is no difference in management between the two. The idea that long tails contribute to flystrike is not correct. If a sheep has diarrhea, it has just as much chance of getting flystrike with or without a tail.  Flies get into nasty wool and there is just as much of that around the tail as on the tail. So don't worry about the tails. Jacobs are pretty good about lifting their tails out of the way.

Linda

> Hello All,
> My wife and I are new to sheep and goats.  We were just going to
> get some goats, but the couple that we were buying from also wanted
> us to see and maybe purchase a pair of Jacob sheep.  As most of you
> can imagine, when we saw them we just had to have them.  It took me
> a couple of days to get separate pastures set up, but as of
> tomorrow we will have been the proud owners of a pair of beautiful
> unregistered Jacobs.  I am not sure why they are not registered.  I
> have been through all the information that I can find and they are,
> as far as I can tell, quite pure.  My biggest problem right now is
> that neither of the Jacobs were docked.  I am thinking that this is
> going to be one of the biggest problems that I am going to face. 
> They are both yearlings, born in early spring.  Should I dock now
> or leave them be.  If I don't dock, what do I do to make sure that
> the tails and hocks don't get invaded by maggots and other little
> nasties?  Thanks for the help in advance.
>
> My wife and I own a small farm in south-central Virginia.  We have
> 7 goats (2 Nubians, 2 Nubian/Boers and 3 Nigerian Dwarves), 2 Jacob
> sheep, and an assortment of 32 chickens.
>
> Have a Great and Blessed Day,
> Chris and Tina Griffin
? 
http://www.patchworkfibers.com 
Registered Jacob Sheep, Handspun Yarn  
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From messen at socket.net  Thu Nov  6 15:11:04 2008
From: messen at socket.net (Mark Essen)
Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2008 14:11:04 -0600
Subject: [Jacob-list] New to Jacobs
In-Reply-To: <BLU139-DS39DBA76195EBB6012E410D91E0@phx.gbl>
References: <BLU139-DS39DBA76195EBB6012E410D91E0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <5B4D37C4653A4E8B917CB659E754454D@famousacresPC>

I have not docked for years.  I live in Missouri where the summers are hot and humid, i.e., lots of flies.  I have never had fly strike in any of my sheep, docked or not.  There is a small niche market for "unblemished" slaughter lambs.  Some interpret this to mean not casterated nor docked.  I just think docking is unneccesary.
On the other hand, extremely short docking can be detrimental.  I no longer remember which tail bone joints should be counted before docking, but do remember that a short stub of a tail should be left.  I believe the main reason for this is the chance of prolapse.  Having not docked for some time, I am not the expert on tail length.
I do remember being in your shoes once.  I bought a yearling that was not docked.  My vet said the band was the worst choice for docking methods at that age.  She does not like banding anyway, but she said that it would take too long on an older sheep.  She did not like the idea of the tail dying for the next couple of weeks.  I left that tail on and stopped docking two years later.
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From paintedrockfarm at aol.com  Thu Nov  6 16:13:30 2008
From: paintedrockfarm at aol.com (Cheryl Terrano)
Date: Thu, 06 Nov 2008 16:13:30 -0500
Subject: [Jacob-list] New to Jacobs
In-Reply-To: <BLU139-DS39DBA76195EBB6012E410D91E0@phx.gbl>
References: <BLU139-DS39DBA76195EBB6012E410D91E0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <8CB0E6BA72852CC-EE8-F4C@WEBMAIL-DC12.sysops.aol.com>

Hi Chris and Tina,

Congrats on your Jacob sheep! I agree with Linda in the hope you will certainly consider registering your sheep. If you have questions, there are plenty of folks on this list as well as JSBA who would be more than willing to assist you in that process (myself included). If you have pedigree information, this certainly makes the task much simpler! :)

Tails....ah, a topic of multiple viewpoints. I personally prefer docked tails of reasonable length in my Jacobs. By reasonable, I like to see the rectum and vulva covered whenever possible but I have failed myself many times in getting the placement just right when we dock lambs at 2 days. ?There are a few adult sheep within our flock who were not born here that?do have tails 'on'. I don't mind them having them but I do have a preference for docked tails. 

With that said, I have successfully docked a couple of adult sheep tails but only done so in the dead of winter (to avoid the fly issues) along with some veterinary supervision, including administration of tetanus antitoxin at the time of docking. My sheep also receive annual CD&T boosters but we still gave antitoxin as part of the docking process, just in case. As with any adult tail dock, this can be a personal preference issue but I have seriously taken into account the sheep's tail thickness. It seems that the larger the sheep in body type, the thicker the tail - these I resign myself to seeing them hang/swing behind the animal. Smaller, more refined structured sheep often have thinner tails, making the docking possibility a viable option.?In the case of two adults we elected to dock, the tails were very thin and?no larger than my pinkie finger in diameter.?In either case (adult or lamb), we use the banding method for a number of reasons. It is simple to apply the band, d
 oes not inflict a lasting amount of discomfort in the animal and is (to me) a much cleaner process then flat out chopping them off (uck!). I know of a local commercial breeder who bands initially, then removes the tail below the band after 48 hours when there is little (if any) blood flow (or feeling) to the tail. Works well for him!

My best recommendation would be to consult a vet (preferably one with sheep experience) to lend a hand if you are inexperienced or unsure of how to proceed. Again, you may?find personal preference may rule in this case and choose to dock?or, you?may find that the tails "kinda of grow on you" and you leave them. Again, a veterinarian may be quite useful in assisting you, although you will find they too have their 'preferences'.?I have personally witnessed fly strike in many tailed sheep, never in one that has been docked. I'm a veterinary technician and do see many cases of fly strike, none of which are pretty!?I will mentioned?I have seen fly strike in a Jacob sheep only once (a case of diarrhea) and the animal did have a tail. But I also agree with Linda's statement about how Jacobs normally?are much better than other breeds in lifting their tails out of the way.

Good luck in your shepherding adventures and?welcome to wonderful world of Jacob Sheep!


Cheryl Terrano?in WV


WHEN EVERYTHING THAT CAN BE SHAKEN IS SHAKEN, THE ANCHOR THAT HOLDS IS THE WISDOM OF THE CROSS. (Jason Upton, Key of David Ministries, from the CD 1200 ft below sea level)

If you want to see God's power at work, you must get out of the church and into the world. Watch the extravagant lengths which God will go to reveal Himself to people who don't know Him. Then you will learn how truly awesome our God is. (Author Unknown)


-----Original Message-----
From: Chris and Tina Griffin <griffin45 at live.com>
To: jacob-list at jacobsheep.com
Sent: Thu, 6 Nov 2008 2:11 pm
Subject: [Jacob-list] New to Jacobs



Hello All,

My wife and I are new to sheep and goats.? We were just going to get some goats, but the couple that we were buying from also wanted us to see and maybe purchase a pair of Jacob sheep.? As most of you can imagine, when we saw them we just had to have them.? It took me a couple of days to get separate pastures set up, but as of tomorrow we will have been the proud owners of a pair of beautiful unregistered Jacobs.? I am not sure why they are not registered.? I have been through all the information that I can find and they are, as far as I can tell, quite pure.? My biggest problem right now is that neither of the Jacobs were docked.? I am thinking that this is going to be one of the biggest problems that I am going to face.? They are both yearlings, born in early spring.? Should I dock now or leave them be.? If I don't dock, what do I do to make sure that the tails and hocks don't get invaded by maggots and other little nasties?? Thanks for the help in advance.

?

My wife and I own a small farm in south-central Virginia.? We have 7 goats (2 Nubians, 2 Nubian/Boers and 3 Nigerian Dwarves), 2 Jacob sheep, and an assortment of 32 chickens.

?

Have a Great and Blessed Day,

Chris and Tina Griffin



_______________________________________________
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Jacob-list at jacobsheep.com
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From hannah at knoxfarms.com  Thu Nov  6 17:25:24 2008
From: hannah at knoxfarms.com (Hannah)
Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2008 17:25:24 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [Jacob-list] pelt info
Message-ID: <60935.64.40.83.53.1226010324.squirrel@kit.rc4systems.net>

Hello,

I was wondering if anybody could point me in the direction of information
concerning grading the quality of goat as well as sheep pelts.  I don't
really know if such a thing exists, but if anybody knows anything about
it, I'd be interested.

Thanks,

Hannah K




-- 
Knox Farms
All Natural Goat's Milk Soaps
Heritage Breed Livestock and Some That We Just Like
Say NO! to National Animal ID System!
http://nonais.org

Member Friends of Traditional Farming
http://fotfarm.org

Blog
blog.knoxfarms.com


From westergladstone at btinternet.com  Thu Nov  6 20:08:47 2008
From: westergladstone at btinternet.com (G & J Johnston)
Date: Fri, 7 Nov 2008 01:08:47 -0000
Subject: [Jacob-list] New to Jacobs
References: <BLU139-DS39DBA76195EBB6012E410D91E0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <4C8DE92040924096AFD2DFC563D0B6D8@Newbox>

<< what do I do to make sure that the tails and hocks don't get invaded by maggots and other little nasties?>>

There are various products which can be applied to the fleece in the summer months which will prevent fly eggs from hatching and / or kill the maggots if they do (also treat ticks, mites, lice, allsorts).  They vary in ease of application, strength, action and environmental acceptability. As I live in Britain I do not know which products are available in the US but your veterinarian will be able to help I am sure.  Fly strike can kill an animal in a horrible way, so prevention is a necessity.  Other measures you can adopt are 'dagging' the rear ends (trimming dirty wool with hand shears/daggers), keeping up to date with worming, and being very observant of your sheep, looking out for strange behaviour patterns which would demonstrate that the sheep is being bothered by flies . Sheep are very watchable creatures so you will soon learn what behaviour is normal and what is not.
Any breed of sheep, including Jacobs, is susceptible to fly strike.  Being in an area where there are plenty of other sheep, particularly if they suffer from fly strike, can increase the incidence in your own animals, and living in a breezy area can help to keep the flies away.
I have never docked my Jacobs and think they look beautiful with tails swinging.
Juliet in Scotland
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From lynettefrick at gmail.com  Fri Nov  7 11:21:54 2008
From: lynettefrick at gmail.com (Lynette Frick)
Date: Fri, 7 Nov 2008 08:21:54 -0800
Subject: [Jacob-list] New to Jacobs
Message-ID: <22872c750811070821l1fdefc85i668478a5e2861178@mail.gmail.com>

I don't have any sheep that are un-docked, but I do leave cover past the
vulva (when docking lambs, that usually ends up 1/2in. past where the flaps
come to a point). My only suggestion would be that if the bottom or sides of
the tails are wet to the skin with urine, or have poop berries all over
them, to shave/ trim with hand shears/ heavy scissors, which ever you have.
It makes the tails lighter, and prevents any issues, also makes breeding a
cleaner ordeal, plus it's not surgical! I routinely dag my sheep before
breeding (only got 1/2 done this year), and it just seems to keep things
cleaner. A good portion of the sheep don't need it, in fact most would be
fine without it, but if they are wet to the skin you might see some
problems. If not from flies, from urine burn. Dags are definitely a good
thing to keep records on too. I'm trying to select for entirely dagless
sheep in my flock, keeping the ideal of low maintenance in mind. So, I used
a ram who sheds out the sides of his tail, and his belly on my ewes that are
too woolly. It will be interesting to see what we get this next lamb crop!
I think I look forward to lambing even more than Christmas!

Good luck, and congratulations on the new sheep! I think you'll be glad that
the breed you have chosen is the Jacob. So far I haven't raised, or worked
with any others that really compare... well, I do have a soft spot for
Churros! I'm going to agree with everyone, and hope that you register them!

Once again, good luck and welcome!

Lynette Frick
IDEAL FARM
Jacob Sheep
www.idealjacobsheep.com/jacobsheep.html
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From griffin45 at live.com  Sat Nov  8 05:50:24 2008
From: griffin45 at live.com (Chris and Tina Griffin)
Date: Sat, 8 Nov 2008 05:50:24 -0500
Subject: [Jacob-list] Thanks for the suggestions on Docking
Message-ID: <BLU139-DS154BD801B80B33271C9E3D9180@phx.gbl>

Hi All,
Tina and I have decided not to Dock.  I watched the sheep yesterday for most of the day (I was building them a shade shelter in the pasture) and the information that I received from all of you about the semi-prehensile tail of the Jacobs was invaluable.  As soon as I saw the movement of the tail I knew we could feel more at ease with fly-strike and just be vigilant with our sheep.  They are a bit slower to acclimate to people than goats are, but they also were pastured and left alone by their previous owners.  Now the big question!  I would like to take some pictures of the sheep and send them to anyone who will give me a good and honest opinion of the quality of these sheep.  As I said in my previous post we are new to Jacobs and we have looked at them in regards to what we have read here on the internet, but having one week of experience with them, I think that we could certainly use some expert opinions.  

Have a great and blessed day,
Chris
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From patchworkfibers at alltel.net  Sat Nov  8 07:11:35 2008
From: patchworkfibers at alltel.net (Linda)
Date: Sat, 8 Nov 2008 07:11:35 -0500
Subject: [Jacob-list] Thanks for the suggestions on Docking
In-Reply-To: <BLU139-DS154BD801B80B33271C9E3D9180@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <200811871135.527788@Linda-PC>

If you go to: http://www.jsba.org/FAQ.html you will find a list of JSBA inspectors, directors, and other officers  that can help you with your registration questions. You'll find them to be a helpful group. 

Have fun!

Linda

> Hi All,
> Tina and I have decided not to Dock.  I watched the sheep yesterday
> for most of the day (I was building them a shade shelter in the
> pasture) and the information that I received from all of you about
> the semi-prehensile tail of the Jacobs was invaluable.  As soon as
> I saw the movement of the tail I knew we could feel more at ease
> with fly-strike and just be vigilant with our sheep.  They are a
> bit slower to acclimate to people than goats are, but they also
> were pastured and left alone by their previous owners.  Now the big
> question!  I would like to take some pictures of the sheep and send
> them to anyone who will give me a good and honest opinion of the
> quality of these sheep.  As I said in my previous post we are new
> to Jacobs and we have looked at them in regards to what we have
> read here on the internet, but having one week of experience with
> them, I think that we could certainly use some expert opinions. 
>
> Have a great and blessed day,
> Chris
? 
http://www.patchworkfibers.com 
Registered Jacob Sheep, Handspun Yarn  
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From stcroft at ptd.net  Wed Nov 12 07:10:48 2008
From: stcroft at ptd.net (Susan J Martin)
Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2008 07:10:48 -0500
Subject: [Jacob-list] Dog Attack
Message-ID: <D952DA28939542D285B2AFA88CE98646@Ultra>

Just wanted to share a story and perhaps helpful information.  A month ago on a Sat. we discovered a large Siberian Husky with our sheep, chasing them and biting their necks.  Fortunately we were able to intervene and there was no serious damage.  The police were called and the dog was removed from our property to the Humane League.  He was reclaimed by his owners, the Human League would not tell me the owner's name due to "confidentiality" concerns but they did inform me of the street name where this dog lived..........a street down the road from us.  (We live in southeast PA in a rural area but also many residences in the area.)  I contacted the owner to explain what happened - the Humane League NEVER informed the owner that the dog was found attacking sheep - I made it quite clear to the owner what the dog had been doing and my concerns.  Incidentally, the dog was a large Siberian Husky, well cared for, and absolutely a beautiful animal.  Last weekend my husband and I were out of town, but a friend was staying in our home to care for our animals, etc.........on Friday  morning it was discovered that one of our ewes had been killed - many bites to the neck and her neck was broken -  and a spring ewe lamb was also injured and had to be put down.  Again the police were called, they took pictures, the officer contacted the Pennsylvania Dog Warden with the information and the officer contacted the dog's owners, who freely admitted that the dog had gotten away from them @ the same time the attack had taken place.   My husband and I visited the dog's owners upon our return and they were very remorseful, wanted to pay restitution, etc.....although it was obvious their sons loved this dog and they were visibly upset.  The Dog Warden contacted them and this family then signed the dog over to him - he then delivered the dog to the Humane League for euthanizing.  The Dog Warden informed us of the following:
    1)  Most of the attacks that he sees like this involve Siberian Huskies
    2)  If a dog attacks once, he will always return and attack again
    3)  If a dog is on my property and is threatening my physical being or the lives of my animals, under the law I can legally shoot the dog
    4)  A dog who attacks sheep is not necessarily an aggressive dog toward humans - this dog was never vicious toward us or toward his                   family, he obeyed  commands and was friendly -- apparently his only vice was that he liked to "taste" sheep!!

It was a sad situation for all involved -- the adult ewe who was killed was a favorite, very tame, and the flock leader.  The ewe lamb had beautiful markings, 4H, perfect in every way.  And there are two boys in the neighborhood who are grieving the loss of their family pet - a playful friend who loved to play ball and romp in their wading pool......but whose primal instincts overcame his domesticity.

Sue Martin
Stonecroft






  
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From kbarrett at bmi.net  Thu Nov 13 14:51:06 2008
From: kbarrett at bmi.net (Kate Barrett)
Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2008 11:51:06 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Jacob-list] Dog Attack
Message-ID: <2367.4.242.144.189.1226605866.squirrel@cx9.atricaserver.com>

Sue:
I am so sorry for the loss of your ewe, and the loss of the children's
dog. People just don't seem to understand the responsibility that dog
ownership takes.  I have a neighbor about 1/2 mile away, whose young
German Shorthair loves to chase my sheep. So far he has not hurt any. This
has been going on for a couple of years now. Since I work my sheep with a
border collie, the sheep generally pen themselves in by the barn when this
dog starts bothering them. The barn is by the road, so other people have
seen this dog harassing the sheep as well, I get calls at work about it. 
When I ask my neighbor to control his dog, his reply is always the
same...shoot the dog.  Well I like his dog pretty well, and am not able to
do this, especially since he hasn't ever actually harmed any sheep. It is
unfortunate that these folks don't understand how to train, or apparently
how to pen their dog:) I certainly hope something doesn't go wrong for
this dog, but don't imagine anyone will shoot the dog until I lose a ewe
or lamb. I am very disappointed with their attitude, but it pretty well
sums up the non- livestock owners understanding of dog ownership. My heart
goes out to you.
Kate Barrett
Ruby Peak Jacobs.


From BIDEWEE at aol.com  Thu Nov 13 16:33:40 2008
From: BIDEWEE at aol.com (BIDEWEE at aol.com)
Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2008 16:33:40 EST
Subject: [Jacob-list] Ad: Bred Ewes and a Ewe Sale
Message-ID: <d6a.3b24c402.364df734@aol.com>

Greetings all,
Just wanted to mention that we have a few bred ewes for sale plus a few ewes 
on clearance.  If interested you can see them at 
_http://www.bideaweefarm.com/JacobSale.htm_ (http://www.bideaweefarm.com/JacobSale.htm) .
 
Thanks for your time,
Karen L.
 
 
 
bide a wee farm 
registered Jacob & Navajo-Churro Sheep
19562 NE Calkins Lane, Newberg, OR 97132 ~ 503-538-7987
karen at bideaweefarm.com ~ www.bideaweefarm.com

















**************Get the Moviefone Toolbar. Showtimes, theaters, movie news & 
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From stcroft at ptd.net  Sat Nov 15 06:46:40 2008
From: stcroft at ptd.net (Susan J Martin)
Date: Sat, 15 Nov 2008 06:46:40 -0500
Subject: [Jacob-list] How do you chop alfalfa hay?
Message-ID: <3888F3CAFBDE4CA1A1E25AB163824900@Ultra>

I believe I remember reading on this list in the past that some of you feed "chopped" alfalfa hay.  How do you chop it?  Do you have it done commercially with a hammermill?  Is there a way to chop alfalfa that would work for a hobbyist like me with a small flock?   We feed  alfalfa but the sheep tend to waste the stems....any suggestions?  I know of a sheep farmer who has a larger flock than us and he collects all the wasted hay (he feeds in a rack with a trough below that catches the waste) and then has a hammermill truck come out to his farm, the stems are ground up in the hammermill and a bit of molasses is added and also some corn, and then he stores this mix in 55 gallon, air tight drums and it ferments into a sort of silage and his sheep love it.  However, this wouldn't be feasible for us - he has around 50 of the drums and he has enough of wasted hay to make it worthwhile for the hammermill to come to his farm.
Sue Martin
Stonecroft
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From patchworkfibers at alltel.net  Sat Nov 15 07:21:30 2008
From: patchworkfibers at alltel.net (Linda)
Date: Sat, 15 Nov 2008 07:21:30 -0500
Subject: [Jacob-list] How do you chop alfalfa hay?
In-Reply-To: <3888F3CAFBDE4CA1A1E25AB163824900@Ultra>
Message-ID: <2008111572130.207815@Linda-PC>

There is a chopper that fits on a tractor that some people use. A feed mill can chop it for you, at least ours can. They run the bales through the mill and bag and put it up in bags. They will mix anything you want with it. I don't know if you could chop hay in one of those small chipper/shredders. If anyone knows, I'd like to hear. One thing about chopping the hay, though, is that it's incredibly dusty. I know the guys at the feed mill all hate chopping hay.

Linda

> I believe I remember reading on this list in the past that some of
> you feed "chopped" alfalfa hay.  How do you chop it?  Do you have
> it done commercially with a hammermill?  Is there a way to chop
> alfalfa that would work for a hobbyist like me with a small flock? 
>  We feed  alfalfa but the sheep tend to waste the stems....any
> suggestions?  I know of a sheep farmer who has a larger flock than
> us and he collects all the wasted hay (he feeds in a rack with a
> trough below that catches the waste) and then has a hammermill
> truck come out to his farm, the stems are ground up in the
> hammermill and a bit of molasses is added and also some corn, and
> then he stores this mix in 55 gallon, air tight drums and it
> ferments into a sort of silage and his sheep love it.  However,
> this wouldn't be feasible for us - he has around 50 of the drums
> and he has enough of wasted hay to make it worthwhile for the
> hammermill to come to his farm.
> Sue Martin
> Stonecroft
? 
http://www.patchworkfibers.com 
Registered Jacob Sheep, Handspun Yarn  
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From gotothewhip at aol.com  Sat Nov 15 07:24:41 2008
From: gotothewhip at aol.com (gotothewhip at aol.com)
Date: Sat, 15 Nov 2008 07:24:41 -0500
Subject: [Jacob-list] How do you chop alfalfa hay?
In-Reply-To: <2008111572130.207815@Linda-PC>
Message-ID: <8CB153444B6AEE1-CD4-1ACB@WEBMAIL-DG11.sim.aol.com>


 


 Exactally Linda!

If you have it chopped, I HIGHLY recommend you have them coat it with Molasses.? This will keep the dust down.. We havent used this on our sheep, but have on the horses.. you can sometimes find the product in the west known as A&M (Alfalfa and Molasses) this is sometimes available is a bagged loose chopped product, and is sometimes cubed.

Jennifer Tucker
www.MooseMtnRanch.com


 

-----Original Message-----
From: Linda <patchworkfibers at alltel.net>
To: Susan J Martin <stcroft at ptd.net>; Sheep E-mail List <jacob-list at jacobsheep.com>
Sent: Sat, 15 Nov 2008 5:21 am
Subject: Re: [Jacob-list] How do you chop alfalfa hay?












There is a chopper that fits on a tractor that some people use. A feed mill can chop it for you, at least ours can. They run the bales through the mill and bag and put it up in bags. They will mix anything you want with it. I don't know if you could chop hay in one of those small chipper/shredders. If anyone knows, I'd like to hear. One thing about chopping the hay, though, is that it's incredibly dusty. I know the guys at the feed mill all hate chopping hay.


?


Linda




> I believe I remember reading on this list in the past that some of


> you feed "chopped" alfalfa hay.? How do you chop it?? Do you have


> it done commercially with a hammermill?? Is there a way?to chop


> alfalfa that would work for?a hobbyist like me with a small flock??


> ?We feed? alfalfa but the sheep tend to waste the stems....any


> suggestions?? I know of a sheep farmer who has a larger flock than


> us and he collects all the wasted hay (he feeds in a rack with a


> trough below that catches the waste) and then has a hammermill


> truck?come out to his farm, the stems are ground up in the


> hammermill and a bit of molasses is added and also some corn, and


> then he stores this mix in 55 gallon, air tight drums and it


> ferments into a sort of silage and his sheep love it.? However,


> this wouldn't be feasible for?us?- he has around 50 of the drums


> and he has enough of wasted hay to make it worthwhile for the


> hammermill to come to his farm.


> Sue Martin


> Stonecroft


??

http://www.patchworkfibers.com 

Registered Jacob Sheep, Handspun Yarn ?


 





_______________________________________________
Jacob-list mailing list, sponsored by Swallow Lane Farm & Fiberworks
Jacob-list at jacobsheep.com
http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/jacob-list



 

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From griffin45 at live.com  Sun Nov 16 09:36:44 2008
From: griffin45 at live.com (Chris and Tina Griffin)
Date: Sun, 16 Nov 2008 09:36:44 -0500
Subject: [Jacob-list] Chopped hay
In-Reply-To: <mailman.11.1226769319.13774.jacob-list@jacobsheep.com>
References: <mailman.11.1226769319.13774.jacob-list@jacobsheep.com>
Message-ID: <BLU139-DS55D15E0353111CF9D91FDD9100@phx.gbl>

I have a two acre field that I had bailed in the summer.  I left it long for the winter and I cut a strip with my mulching lawn mower, spread it out a little and let it dry several days, then I rake it up and give it to the goats and the sheep.  I have 7 goats and 2 Jacobs and this seems to work really well for me. If you have an area of grass that you can let grow, plant it with hay this spring and it may help you next year.  
Chris
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From BISCHOW at aol.com  Sun Nov 16 10:12:22 2008
From: BISCHOW at aol.com (BISCHOW at aol.com)
Date: Sun, 16 Nov 2008 10:12:22 EST
Subject: [Jacob-list] "Chopped" Alfalfa
Message-ID: <c85.3d662bd0.36519256@aol.com>

We have been using the bagged Chaffhaye.  This is used in addition to  grass 
hay and a little grain for the ewes.  The sheepies love it!
 
_www.chaffhaye.com_ (http://www.chaffhaye.com) 
 
Louise
 
 
**************Get the Moviefone Toolbar. Showtimes, theaters, movie news & 
more!(http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100000075x1212774565x1200812037/aol?redir=htt
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From hannah at knoxfarms.com  Sun Nov 23 20:19:02 2008
From: hannah at knoxfarms.com (Hannah)
Date: Sun, 23 Nov 2008 20:19:02 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [Jacob-list] semi-urgent~opinions needed
Message-ID: <54380.64.40.83.53.1227489542.squirrel@kit.rc4systems.net>

Hey gang,

This afternoon when I was feeding my sheep my Black Welsh ewe lamb,
Shirly, did not come to eat.  She is usually very bright and alert, like
her sister, Cher.  Shirly, however, was standing off by herself with her
back arched.  The thing that cought my attention, though was her uneven
respiration and acting like she was trying to cough.  She appeared to have
been chased when I first saw her, but that isn't very likely.  Anyway,
when we got her she was salivating excessively.  It wasn't like she was
drooling, but like she had a partial blockage.  She was also grinding her
teeth.  She has really good color in her conjunctiva.  She is scouring,
but not excessively.  Her temp is 103.9

I have given her 36ml of a mixture of olive oil, baking soda, and
charcoal.  I give this when there is the possibility of bloat,
clostridium, or a blockage.  I also gave her 1ml of banamine and 1.5ml
valbazen.  One of our concerns is that she might have pneumonia.

I just want to know if I covered all of the bases.

Thanks,

Hannah K
-- 
Knox Farms
All Natural Goat's Milk Soaps
Heritage Breed Livestock and Some That We Just Like



From patchworkfibers at alltel.net  Tue Nov 25 20:23:59 2008
From: patchworkfibers at alltel.net (Linda)
Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2008 20:23:59 -0500
Subject: [Jacob-list] winter shearing
Message-ID: <20081125202359.759517@Linda-PC>

I really like to shear before lambing, although we don't always manage it.  We usually lamb in mid to late March and shear the first or second week of March. This year, we staggered breeding and will have lambs coming in February through April, with a break the first week of March (hopefully :-)

I'm in northern Georgia, where we don't have the bitter cold temps of further north. It can be below freezing for a few days, though, and ice storms are not unusual in January and February. Our shelter is fairly basic - a 30' by 16' three sided barn. It's backed into a bank and has a low ceiling, so does retain some heat, but is not "toasty".  The rams are in the woods with a tarp barn.

For those of you that will be shearing this fall or winter, how cold can be it be before you worry about shearing? What sort of shelter do you provide?  Is it perhaps better to shear two months before lambing if you manage to get a good day for it? I'm wondering about shearing in December. 

Thanks for any advice.

Linda


http://www.patchworkfibers.com
 Registered Jacob Sheep, Handspun Yarn  

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From schmick54 at aol.com  Tue Nov 25 23:12:05 2008
From: schmick54 at aol.com (schmick54 at aol.com)
Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2008 23:12:05 -0500
Subject: [Jacob-list] winter shearing
In-Reply-To: <20081125202359.759517@Linda-PC>
References: <20081125202359.759517@Linda-PC>
Message-ID: <8CB1D9446E0F6E6-84-1C63@webmail-stg-d10.sysops.aol.com>


 We shear 6 weeks before lambing. Lambing for us in N. Colorado begins the second week in March. We put lots of deep straw in our sheds to keep our girls warm. It can get pretty damned cold and sometimes we'll get a wonderful "springy" day for shearing followed by icy cold and snowy a day or two later. Usually they shiver a little during the first week. Thereafter they get used to the cold and don't seem to mind at all. 

I have read (The Shepherd) that 7 weeks prior to lambing brings a big and healthy crop. December shearing might not be a bad idea, since your lambing will be staggered. Can you "stagger" the shearing ? Can you "crotch" the early ones ?

?We usually shear the gang in February and one year,a week before lambing(1st day of Spring) it snowed 32"? !!!

Mick


 


 

-----Original Message-----
From: Linda <patchworkfibers at alltel.net>
To: Jacob-list <Jacob-list at jacobsheep.com>
Sent: Tue, 25 Nov 2008 6:23 pm
Subject: [Jacob-list] winter shearing












I really like to shear before lambing, although we don't always manage it. ?We usually lamb in mid to late March and shear the first or second week of March. This year, we staggered breeding and will have lambs coming in February through April, with a break the first week of March (hopefully :-)




I'm in northern Georgia, where we don't have the bitter cold temps of further north. It can be below freezing for a few days, though, and ice storms are not unusual in January and February. Our shelter is fairly basic - a 30' by 16' three sided barn. It's backed into a bank and has a low ceiling, so does retain some heat, but is not "toasty". ?The rams are in the woods with a tarp barn.


?


For those of you that will be shearing this fall or winter, how cold can be it be before you worry about shearing? What sort of shelter do you provide? ?Is it perhaps better to shear two months before lambing if you manage to get a good day for it? I'm wondering about shearing in December. 


?


Thanks for any advice.


?


Linda


?



http://www.patchworkfibers.com
 Registered Jacob Sheep, Handspun Yarn ?




 





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From beegal7 at yahoo.com  Wed Nov 26 00:55:59 2008
From: beegal7 at yahoo.com (Meg Steensland)
Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2008 21:55:59 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Jacob-list] winter shearing
In-Reply-To: <20081125202359.759517@Linda-PC>
Message-ID: <133197.78110.qm@web31505.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

In central OH, I do not get the shearing done until end-of Mar or so, middle of lambing or near the end.
?
A guy nearby, Glenn High with Shrops and Targhees says he shears in Dec when they go in the barn.? His son Roger is the Ohio Sheep Improvement Assoc. leader in OH and Glenn is in his 70's.? Another fellow Larry with Montadales does not get to it until June or July some years.and his cousin is the guy I call to shear mine.
?
There should be a Sheep Improvement assoc in your state of maybe FSA that can advise also.
?
Feb here is the worst and so unpredictable.? Mar is starting to get decent again.? Right now we still have Nov and it is snowy, wet and crummy, but not bitter cold yet.

--- On Tue, 11/25/08, Linda <patchworkfibers at alltel.net> wrote:

From: Linda <patchworkfibers at alltel.net>
Subject: [Jacob-list] winter shearing
To: "Jacob-list" <Jacob-list at jacobsheep.com>
Date: Tuesday, November 25, 2008, 8:23 PM





I really like to shear before lambing, although we don't always manage it. ?We usually lamb in mid to late March and shear the first or second week of March. This year, we staggered breeding and will have lambs coming in February through April, with a break the first week of March (hopefully :-)


I'm in northern Georgia, where we don't have the bitter cold temps of further north. It can be below freezing for a few days, though, and ice storms are not unusual in January and February. Our shelter is fairly basic - a 30' by 16' three sided barn. It's backed into a bank and has a low ceiling, so does retain some heat, but is not "toasty". ?The rams are in the woods with a tarp barn.
?
For those of you that will be shearing this fall or winter, how cold can be it be before you worry about shearing? What sort of shelter do you provide? ?Is it perhaps better to shear two months before lambing if you manage to get a good day for it? I'm wondering about shearing in December. 
?
Thanks for any advice.
?
Linda
?

http://www.patchworkfibers.com
Registered Jacob Sheep, Handspun Yarn ?

_______________________________________________
Jacob-list mailing list, sponsored by Swallow Lane Farm & Fiberworks
Jacob-list at jacobsheep.com
http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/jacob-list
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From hannah at knoxfarms.com  Wed Nov 26 07:21:15 2008
From: hannah at knoxfarms.com (Hannah)
Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2008 07:21:15 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [Jacob-list] sheep update... still need some advise
Message-ID: <63165.64.40.83.53.1227702075.squirrel@kit.rc4systems.net>

Hello,

Shirly, the lamb that I wrote in about the other day, is still not feeling
well.  Yesterday was her third day of five of penicillin and her last day
of banamine.  She is still not 100%.  Her abdomen is sunken in like she
hasn't eaten much.  I am wondering if you can give sheep banamine for
longer than three days because I think she still needs it.  She is
grinding her teeth a bit even after she gets it.  Yesterday we broke out
the naxcell and gave her 1ml.  Hopefully that will help.  If she survives
this, I'll have to sell her after shearing to help buy a new bottle.  If
anybody has any ideas or anything, please reply.  I am giving her
penicillin, B complex, banamine, and probiotics.  Also, 1 dose of naxcell.

Thanks,

Hannah K


-- 
Knox Farms
All Natural Goat's Milk Soaps
Heritage Breed Livestock and Some That We Just Like
Say NO! to National Animal ID System!
http://nonais.org

Member Friends of Traditional Farming
http://fotfarm.org

Blog
blog.knoxfarms.com

-- 
Knox Farms
All Natural Goat's Milk Soaps
Heritage Breed Livestock and Some That We Just Like
Say NO! to National Animal ID System!
http://nonais.org

Member Friends of Traditional Farming
http://fotfarm.org

Blog
blog.knoxfarms.com


From tcarnes at carnesely.com  Wed Nov 26 08:10:36 2008
From: tcarnes at carnesely.com (Thomas P. Carnes)
Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2008 13:10:36 +0000
Subject: [Jacob-list] winter shearing
In-Reply-To: <133197.78110.qm@web31505.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <20081125202359.759517@Linda-PC><133197.78110.qm@web31505.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <676903648-1227705033-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1372832029-@bxe285.bisx.prod.on.blackberry>

Everyone shears here in April and May. Most animals are outside all winter, and it can freeze to late April. We, therefore, lamb well before we shear. Shearers are getting scarce, and are like migrant workers or judge's riding circuit. We take them when we can get them. 
Thomas P. Carnes
713.921.7790 (Telephone)
713.921.7793 (Facsimile)
tcarnes at carnesely.com

Sent from my Verizon Wireless

-----Original Message-----
From: Meg Steensland <beegal7 at yahoo.com>

Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2008 21:55:59 
To: Linda<patchworkfibers at alltel.net>; Jacob List<jacob-list at jacobsheep.com>
Subject: Re: [Jacob-list] winter shearing


_______________________________________________
Jacob-list mailing list, sponsored by Swallow Lane Farm & Fiberworks
Jacob-list at jacobsheep.com
http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/jacob-list


From gotothewhip at aol.com  Wed Nov 26 11:45:53 2008
From: gotothewhip at aol.com (gotothewhip at aol.com)
Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2008 11:45:53 -0500
Subject: [Jacob-list] sheep update... still need some advise
In-Reply-To: <63165.64.40.83.53.1227702075.squirrel@kit.rc4systems.net>
References: <63165.64.40.83.53.1227702075.squirrel@kit.rc4systems.net>
Message-ID: <8CB1DFD94A94543-B10-873@WEBMAIL-MY36.sysops.aol.com>

My biggest advise is to keep up with probiotics.? And sometimes that isn't enough... I had one get REALLY sick.. between the fever, the antibiotics and? God knows what else she had going on.... Anyhow.. I saw a 1000000000% improvement with a dose of fresh Rumen fluid... Mickey Ramirez (Broken O) was a literal lifesaver of this gal, as she picked up the rumen fluid from?CSU for me and met a friend who was up that way... and was the first leg of the Rumen Fluid Relay that got it to me that afternoon.? We tubed her with 2 doses of the rumen fluid.. and NOT EXAGGERATING... She was feeling great about 12 hours after her 1st dose.? I truly believe that the good bugs and nutrition she received in the rumen juice was what turned her around.?

Jennifer Tucker
www.Moose MtnRanch.com


riginal Message-----
From: Hannah <hannah at knoxfarms.com>
To: jacob-list at jacobsheep.com
Sent: Wed, 26 Nov 2008 5:21 am
Subject: [Jacob-list] sheep update... still need some advise



Hello,

Shirly, the lamb that I wrote in about the other day, is still not feeling
well.  Yesterday was her third day of five of penicillin and her last day
of banamine.  She is still not 100%.  Her abdomen is sunken in like she
hasn't eaten much.  I am wondering if you can give sheep banamine for
longer than three days because I think she still needs it.  She is
grinding her teeth a bit even after she gets it.  Yesterday we broke out
the naxcell and gave her 1ml.  Hopefully that will help.  If she survives
this, I'll have to sell her after shearing to help buy a new bottle.  If
anybody has any ideas or anything, please reply.  I am giving her
penicillin, B complex, banamine, and probiotics.  Also, 1 dose of naxcell.

Thanks,

Hannah K


-- 
Knox Farms
All Natural Goat's Milk Soaps
Heritage Breed Livestock and Some That We Just Like
Say NO! to National Animal ID System!
http://nonais.org

Member Friends of Traditional Farming
http://fotfarm.org

Blog
blog.knoxfarms.com

-- 
Knox Farms
All Natural Goat's Milk Soaps
Heritage Breed Livestock and Some That We Just Like
Say NO! to National Animal ID System!
http://nonais.org

Member Friends of Traditional Farming
http://fotfarm.org

Blog
blog.knoxfarms.com

_______________________________________________
Jacob-list mailing list, sponsored by Swallow Lane Farm & Fiberworks
Jacob-list at jacobsheep.com
http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/jacob-list

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From lynettefrick at gmail.com  Wed Nov 26 12:46:52 2008
From: lynettefrick at gmail.com (Lynette Frick)
Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2008 09:46:52 -0800
Subject: [Jacob-list] Fwd: sheep update... still need some advise
In-Reply-To: <22872c750811260911jb4f167t825bc6ce415773d@mail.gmail.com>
References: <22872c750811260911jb4f167t825bc6ce415773d@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <22872c750811260946r71820fc9ye45b804af53d69f1@mail.gmail.com>

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Lynette Frick <lynettefrick at gmail.com>
Date: Wed, Nov 26, 2008 at 9:11 AM
Subject: sheep update... still need some advise
To: jacob-list-request at jacobsheep.com


Hi Hanna,

Have you visited a vet? If she still has a partial blockage then he may be
able to tube her and deal with it. If she is grinding her teeth, usually
that suggests she's in some sort of extreme discomfort, which you obviously
know since you have been treating her with banamine. The tooth grinding is
what has me most concerned. Have you located the source of her pain? Are her
feet sore, and how does her breathing sound? You also said that she is
standing arched backed, that points towards feet or abdominal pain. If you
don't have a stethiscope, they are pretty cheap, and now may be the time to
get one. You can listen for both stomach sounds, and breathing/heart sounds.
Does she have good capilary refil, meaning if you press your thumb against
her gums does the color come back emidiatly or does it take a while? What's
her heart rate, and breathing rate? Check healthy lambs for reference first,
measure cap. refil in seconds, and heart in bpm, breaths in breaths/min. You
need to know this, and you need to need to know an average in your flock to
compare against for future reference. It is good info to share with your vet
should you choose to call one.

You also mentioned that she is scouring slightly, what does the poo look
like, is it watery, is there blood, etc.?  If it isn't a blockage, or a
disease, it may be hardware disease, especially considereing that she
doesn't sound like she is responding much to tons of antibiotics. Is your
hay pretty clean, or was the bale you fed a roadside bale with lots of fun
stuff, or is you barn kind of rough like mine and maybe she ate a small
roofing nail/ screw? I'm just tossing out possibilities, but if you have
access to a vet and *if this ewe is* *valuable get her in!* If you aren't
particulary attached, and she doesn't start clearing up, butcher her and get
a nice pelt off of her so *she is not completely wasted*. A good pelt is
worth more than a sick lamb through the auction. Don't let her die first,
you run the risk of the hide being on too long and loosing wool in patches,
not to mention it is *unethical* and selfish. If you wait too long she will
either be too sick and miserable to be utilized in any way, or if she lasts
long enough, she will have a break in the fleece rendering the pelt and
fleece worthless. When stock get sick, its not the time to be sentimental,
even if she has a name. Tough decisions have to be made to prevent prolonged
suffering. These decisions will also affect how you can treat more valuable
stock in the future. When a good proven producer goes down, and its time to
call the vet you will have the funding to do so if you haven't emptied you
pocket book and medical cabinet on animals of lesser value. If it sounds
harsh, thats because it is. I had to learn this lesson a long time ago, and
if you ask any rancher or farmer who makes a living from what they do
they will all tell you with heavy hearts, there is a time to cut your
losses.
I honestly wish the best, but if push comes to shub, I really hope you do
the right thing and don't let her suffer. Call a livestock freind and have
them show you how to butcher, you'll feel bad about it at first, but just
know in your heart that you did the right thing, and enjoy your healthy
animals and the thought that you you can probably save the next one. You'll
get over it quickly if you keep that in mind. It also comes in handy to know
how to butcher if you ever have to deal with victims of dog attacks that
need to be dispatched immidiatly and humanely.

Good luck,

-- 
Lynette Frick
IDEAL FARM
Jacob Sheep
www.idealjacobsheep.com/



-- 
Lynette Frick
IDEAL FARM
Jacob Sheep
www.idealjacobsheep.com/
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From paintedrockfarm at aol.com  Wed Nov 26 12:49:26 2008
From: paintedrockfarm at aol.com (Cheryl Terrano)
Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2008 12:49:26 -0500
Subject: [Jacob-list] winter shearing
In-Reply-To: <20081125202359.759517@Linda-PC>
References: <20081125202359.759517@Linda-PC>
Message-ID: <8CB1E0675538608-BF0-79C@webmail-dd11.sysops.aol.com>

Hi Linda,

We typically shear 1-2 weeks prior to lambing. It seems we always can choose the coldest day of the year, even when we plan several weeks in advance! WV winters are bitter cold and we tend to lamb in February - a really cold month. For the past 3 years, we have been in the single digits on shearing day so we set up a few heat lamps over the newly naked sheep. :)? Shivering is normal but the lamps help some. Of course, we also have an enclosed barn for them to be in. Our main concern is keeping them out of the wind when they are newly sheared. We also use deep straw bedding for the floors and that helps some too. Our shearer prefers to shear our flock about 2 weeks before lambing, rather than getting too 'close' to due dates whenever possible. He also says they do quite well about a week following the shear, giving them time to adjust to their short wool.

Some shearers may elect to leave a bit more wool on the animal if temps are really low. I have a few old sheep who are a little arthritic that we leave about a half inch of wool on. Its?for their benefit and more for my peace of mind than anything else. :) We have never lost a sheep due to the cold after shearing but our shearer has told us many stories about shearing commercial flocks heavy with lambs - losses are actually expected with them! I did have a ewe heavy with triplets go off feed for 2 days after shearing in 5 degrees one year. I penned her so she could have her own heat lamp, loaded her up with Nutri-cal 5 times a day and offered grain (which she did not eat). She would eat alfalfa hay free choice and drink from a heated bucket. Miss Pansy survived that year and went on to produce a number of healthy triplets for us every year. 

I would say making sure the sheep have a wind free area is very important. This is especially true is they get soaked from rain or heavy snow (or ice) and temps turn really cold. Nothing can stay too dry when its wet so wind chill is a concern. Yes, I have towel dried my fair share of sheep too, just in case but also notice they do stay inside more when they are sheared.

For the record, we lost a ram lamb one year to a first timer who twinned?in 9 degree cold. We had not yet sheared and we had about 5 ewes bred for late Jan. lambs. The little guy froze before he was cleaned off - and this was INSIDE the barn! Did I mention how cold it gets here? We pen our ewes in the barn at night?but it still?gets cold in there too.

Good luck!?

Cheryl in WV
http://paintedrockfarm.blogspot.com
http://www.paintedrockfarm.com

WHEN EVERYTHING THAT CAN BE SHAKEN IS SHAKEN, THE ANCHOR THAT HOLDS IS THE WISDOM OF THE CROSS. (Jason Upton, Key of David Ministries, from the CD 1200 ft below sea level)

If you want to see God's power at work, you must get out of the church and into the world. Watch the extravagant lengths which God will go to reveal Himself to people who don't know Him. Then you will learn how truly awesome our God is. (Author Unknown)


-----Original Message-----
From: Linda <patchworkfibers at alltel.net>
To: Jacob-list <Jacob-list at jacobsheep.com>
Sent: Tue, 25 Nov 2008 8:23 pm
Subject: [Jacob-list] winter shearing



I really like to shear before lambing, although we don't always manage it. ?We usually lamb in mid to late March and shear the first or second week of March. This year, we staggered breeding and will have lambs coming in February through April, with a break the first week of March (hopefully :-)



I'm in northern Georgia, where we don't have the bitter cold temps of further north. It can be below freezing for a few days, though, and ice storms are not unusual in January and February. Our shelter is fairly basic - a 30' by 16' three sided barn. It's backed into a bank and has a low ceiling, so does retain some heat, but is not "toasty". ?The rams are in the woods with a tarp barn.

?

For those of you that will be shearing this fall or winter, how cold can be it be before you worry about shearing? What sort of shelter do you provide? ?Is it perhaps better to shear two months before lambing if you manage to get a good day for it? I'm wondering about shearing in December. 

?

Thanks for any advice.

?

Linda

?


http://www.patchworkfibers.com
Registered Jacob Sheep, Handspun Yarn ?





_______________________________________________
Jacob-list mailing list, sponsored by Swallow Lane Farm & Fiberworks
Jacob-list at jacobsheep.com
http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/jacob-list

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From patchworkfibers at alltel.net  Wed Nov 26 12:58:51 2008
From: patchworkfibers at alltel.net (Linda)
Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2008 12:58:51 -0500
Subject: [Jacob-list] winter shearing
In-Reply-To: <676903648-1227705033-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1372832029-@bxe285.bisx.prod.on.blackberry>
Message-ID: <20081126125851.660648@Linda-PC>

Thanks everyone for the shearing thoughts. Mick - I'd love to get the shearer to come twice. He's willing, but he charges a pretty hefty travel fee, so it's prohibitive to have him twice. 

Boy, Tom, I sure know what you mean about shearers! They are scarce here, too. The circuit shearers get here in May, which is alot later than I like. I very much appreciate our shearer and know how lucky we are to have a shearer that works with our schedule. Once it starts to to hot and humid, the sheep spend alot of time rubbing on fence posts to the detriment of their fleeces. We used to shear after lambing (mid April). I never did notice any "lambing stress" breaks in the fleece, so I don't mind shearing after lambing, except for how much easier it is to watch sheared ewes at lambing time. 

I may go ahead and shear in January if we get a weather break. 

Linda

> Everyone shears here in April and May. Most animals are outside all
> winter, and it can freeze to late April. We, therefore, lamb well
> before we shear. Shearers are getting scarce, and are like migrant
> workers or judge's riding circuit. We take them when we can get
> them.
> Thomas P. Carnes
> 713.921.7790 (Telephone)
> 713.921.7793 (Facsimile)
> tcarnes at carnesely.com
>
> Sent from my Verizon Wireless
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Meg Steensland <beegal7 at yahoo.com>
>
> Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2008 21:55:59
> To: Linda<patchworkfibers at alltel.net> Jacob List<jacob-
> list at jacobsheep.com>
> Subject: Re: [Jacob-list] winter shearing
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Jacob-list mailing list, sponsored by Swallow Lane Farm & Fiberworks
> Jacob-list at jacobsheep.com
> http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/jacob-list
>
> _______________________________________________
> Jacob-list mailing list, sponsored by Swallow Lane Farm & Fiberworks
> Jacob-list at jacobsheep.com
> http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/jacob-list
? 
http://www.patchworkfibers.com 
Registered Jacob Sheep, Handspun Yarn  
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From aztreaz at earthlink.net  Wed Nov 26 13:23:31 2008
From: aztreaz at earthlink.net (ARTHUR PARTRIDGE)
Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2008 10:23:31 -0800
Subject: [Jacob-list] sheep update... still need some advise
Message-ID: <410-2200811326182331187@earthlink.net>

>My biggest advise is to keep up with probiotics.? And sometimes that isn't
enough... I had one get REALLY sick.. between the fever, the >antibiotics
and? God knows what else she had going on.... Anyhow.. I saw a 1000000000%
improvement with a dose of fresh Rumen fluid...
=====
I agree.  The rumen could be "out-of order" and not working.  The ewe might
need a "jump-start" to get her rumen going again.  Can you get a fresh cud
from another sheep?  If you have a really tame one wait until she lies down
and starts chewing her cud and then grab it, if you can.  I can't do that
with my sheep they are too jumpy.  I took my ewes to the WSU vet school
where they started the rumen going again with cud from a cow.  It might
take more than one try.  Be sure to give the ewe electrolytes and plenty of
water so she doesn't get dehydrated.  A local vet might get you a cud
sample, it wouldn't hurt to ask.

Cathy
Moscow, Idaho



From perfectspot at bellsouth.net  Wed Nov 26 13:32:46 2008
From: perfectspot at bellsouth.net (Cathy Robinson)
Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2008 13:32:46 -0500
Subject: [Jacob-list] winter shearing
In-Reply-To: <20081125202359.759517@Linda-PC>
References: <20081125202359.759517@Linda-PC>
Message-ID: <492D964E.6090409@bellsouth.net>

Linda and all....

Thoughts on this easily vary from region to region, farm to farm, etc.

There are so many things to consider.  I am sure the cleanest, nicest 
fleeces are those that come off prior to the winter months of feeding 
hay. Having everyone sheared prior to lambing is really nice, but  does 
not always happen for us.  I love it when it does!  

Comfort of the sheep is a major concern for us, not only in winter but 
also in summer.  Winter in the southeast can be quite variable, but I 
expect that a few days could be found in any of the winter months in 
which shearing could be accomplished ahead of the "norm" (March-April).  
All of our animals (not just sheep) tend to handle (even prefer) cold 
_way_ more than heat.  Heat of summer can start as early as May and last 
until early October.  Some of our sheep handle heat better than others, 
but the biggest drawback for me, living where I do, would be those three 
extra months of wool growth to carry by the time we hit the temps of 
July, August and September if shearing were done in winter months.  If I 
lived somewhere else, with shorter and more moderate summers, and had 
adequate shelter for everyone after shearing, I'd probably love to do it 
earlier than we do.

Cathy
Perfect Spot Farm, NC

Linda wrote:
> I really like to shear before lambing, although we don't always manage 
> it.  We usually lamb in mid to late March and shear the first or 
> second week of March. This year, we staggered breeding and will have 
> lambs coming in February through April, with a break the first week of 
> March (hopefully :-)
>
> I'm in northern Georgia, where we don't have the bitter cold temps of 
> further north. It can be below freezing for a few days, though, and 
> ice storms are not unusual in January and February. Our shelter is 
> fairly basic - a 30' by 16' three sided barn. It's backed into a bank 
> and has a low ceiling, so does retain some heat, but is not "toasty". 
>  The rams are in the woods with a tarp barn.
>  
> For those of you that will be shearing this fall or winter, how cold 
> can be it be before you worry about shearing? What sort of shelter do 
> you provide?  Is it perhaps better to shear two months before lambing 
> if you manage to get a good day for it? I'm wondering about shearing 
> in December.
>  
> Thanks for any advice.
>  
> Linda
>  
>
> http://www.patchworkfibers.com
> Registered Jacob Sheep, Handspun Yarn  
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> Jacob-list mailing list, sponsored by Swallow Lane Farm & Fiberworks
> Jacob-list at jacobsheep.com
> http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/jacob-list
>   

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From patchworkfibers at alltel.net  Wed Nov 26 13:56:59 2008
From: patchworkfibers at alltel.net (Linda)
Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2008 13:56:59 -0500
Subject: [Jacob-list] winter shearing
In-Reply-To: <492D964E.6090409@bellsouth.net>
Message-ID: <20081126135659.060317@Linda-PC>

Thanks - I had not even thought of the effects of the extra wool growth come August.  We did have a case here one year of heat-induced sterility with an adult (proven to be fertile and negative for b.ovis) ram that came here the first of October with a 10 month fleece. Coupled with his rather enthusiastic pursuit of the ewes, he was rendered sterile for that year. I think I'd rather not go into another breeding season with that much wool growth on my rams.

Linda

> Linda and all....
>
> Thoughts on this easily vary from region to region, farm to farm,
> etc.
>
> There are so many things to consider.  I am sure the cleanest,
> nicest fleeces are those that come off prior to the winter months
> of feeding hay. Having everyone sheared prior to lambing is really
> nice, but  does not always happen for us.  I love it when it does!  
>
> Comfort of the sheep is a major concern for us, not only in winter
> but also in summer.  Winter in the southeast can be quite variable,
> but I expect that a few days could be found in any of the winter
> months in which shearing could be accomplished ahead of the "norm"
> (March-April).  All of our animals (not just sheep) tend to handle
> (even prefer) cold way more than heat.  Heat of summer can start as
> early as May and last until early October.  Some of our sheep
> handle heat better than others, but the biggest drawback for me,
> living where I do, would be those three extra months of wool growth
> to carry by the time we hit the temps of July, August and September
> if shearing were done in winter months.  If I lived somewhere else,
> with shorter and more moderate summers, and had adequate shelter
> for everyone after shearing, I'd probably love to do it earlier
> than we do.
>
> Cathy
> Perfect Spot Farm, NC
>
> Linda wrote: >   I really like to shear before lambing, although
> we don't always manage it.  We usually lamb in mid to late March
> and shear the first or second week of March. This year, we
> staggered breeding and will have lambs coming in February through
> April, with a break the first week of March (hopefully :-)
>
>>
>> I'm in northern Georgia, where we don't have the bitter cold
>> temps of further north. It can be below freezing for a few days,
>> though, and ice storms are not unusual in January and February.
>> Our shelter is fairly basic - a 30' by 16' three sided barn. It's
>> backed into a bank and has a low ceiling, so does retain some
>> heat, but is not "toasty".  The rams are in the woods with a tarp
>> barn.
>>
>> For those of you that will be shearing this fall or winter, how
>> cold can be it be before you worry about shearing? What sort of
>> shelter do you provide?  Is it perhaps better to shear two months
>> before lambing if you manage to get a good day for it? I'm
>> wondering about shearing in December.
>>
>> Thanks for any advice.
>>
>> Linda
>>
>>
>> http://www.patchworkfibers.com
>> Registered Jacob Sheep, Handspun Yarn  
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________ Jacob-list
>> mailing list, sponsored by Swallow Lane Farm & Fiberworks Jacob-
>> list at jacobsheep.com
>> http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/jacob-list
? 
http://www.patchworkfibers.com 
Registered Jacob Sheep, Handspun Yarn  
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From hannah at knoxfarms.com  Wed Nov 26 14:06:07 2008
From: hannah at knoxfarms.com (Hannah)
Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2008 14:06:07 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [Jacob-list] Fwd: sheep update... still need some advise
In-Reply-To: <22872c750811260946r71820fc9ye45b804af53d69f1@mail.gmail.com>
References: <22872c750811260911jb4f167t825bc6ce415773d@mail.gmail.com>
	<22872c750811260946r71820fc9ye45b804af53d69f1@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <55099.64.40.83.53.1227726367.squirrel@kit.rc4systems.net>

Hey,

To the people who wrote me back about probiotics:  I totally agree.  I am
always aprehensive about administering antibiotics to animals that are
dependant on the organisms that the antibiotics kill.  I always give
probiotics in conjunction with antibiotics to replenish the beneficial
bacteria in their digestive tract.

> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: Lynette Frick <lynettefrick at gmail.com>
> Date: Wed, Nov 26, 2008 at 9:11 AM
> Subject: sheep update... still need some advise
> To: jacob-list-request at jacobsheep.com
>
>
> Hi Hanna,
>
> Have you visited a vet?

*No.  I am quite certain that she is suffering from pneumonia.  I spoke
with my friend this afternoon who told me that pneumonia causing bacteria
in sheep in my area are resistant to pen-g.  We started her on naxcell
last night.

>If she still has a partial blockage then he may be
> able to tube her and deal with it.

*I think that the olive oil, baking soda, and charcoal might have helped,
but a blockage was only a concern until I got her isolated.  Then I was
able to monitor her symptoms more closely.

>If she is grinding her teeth, usually
> that suggests she's in some sort of extreme discomfort, which you
> obviously
> know since you have been treating her with banamine. The tooth grinding is
> what has me most concerned. Have you located the source of her pain?

* I think she hurts when she breathes.  By the way, can you give banamine
to sheep for longer than three days without causing liver damage?

>Are
> her
> feet sore, and how does her breathing sound? You also said that she is
> standing arched backed, that points towards feet or abdominal pain.

* Her feet look great.  She is breathing semi-rapidly with short stops in
between (a little less than a second).

>If you
> don't have a stethiscope, they are pretty cheap, and now may be the time
> to
> get one. You can listen for both stomach sounds, and breathing/heart
> sounds.

* We have two.  I'm not an expert, but my mother (an RN) should be able to
tell me whether there is liquid in her lungs.

> Does she have good capilary refil, meaning if you press your thumb against
> her gums does the color come back emidiatly or does it take a while?

* I did not check for that, but her upper and lower conjunctivas have
really good color.

> What's
> her heart rate, and breathing rate? Check healthy lambs for reference
> first,
> measure cap. refil in seconds, and heart in bpm, breaths in breaths/min.
> You
> need to know this, and you need to need to know an average in your flock
> to
> compare against for future reference. It is good info to share with your
> vet
> should you choose to call one.
>
> You also mentioned that she is scouring slightly, what does the poo look
> like, is it watery, is there blood, etc.?

*Its black, thicker than molasses.

>If it isn't a blockage, or a
> disease, it may be hardware disease, especially considereing that she
> doesn't sound like she is responding much to tons of antibiotics. Is your
> hay pretty clean, or was the bale you fed a roadside bale with lots of fun
> stuff, or is you barn kind of rough like mine and maybe she ate a small
> roofing nail/ screw?

*There is very little chance of there being a problem with the hay.

>I'm just tossing out possibilities, but if you have
> access to a vet and *if this ewe is* *valuable get her in!* If you aren't
> particulary attached, and she doesn't start clearing up, butcher her and
> get
> a nice pelt off of her so *she is not completely wasted*. A good pelt is
> worth more than a sick lamb through the auction.

*I have considered this and have been giving her injections in sites that
will not damage the hide.

>Don't let her die first,
> you run the risk of the hide being on too long and loosing wool in
> patches,
> not to mention it is *unethical* and selfish. If you wait too long she
> will
> either be too sick and miserable to be utilized in any way, or if she
> lasts
> long enough, she will have a break in the fleece rendering the pelt and
> fleece worthless.

*I have no intentions of letting this animal suffer.  It is obvious that
she is uncomfortable now, however I possess the common sense to know when
she needs to be shot and have the resources to do so.

>When stock get sick, its not the time to be sentimental,
> even if she has a name.

*She has a name, but she isn't tame and doesn't really care for me.

>Tough decisions have to be made to prevent
> prolonged
> suffering.

* This is not the first time I have had to consider difficult decisions. 
I am sure you can imagine how difficult it was to be present when the doe
that I had since I was 12 had to be shot because the vet could not get out
to euthanize her properly.  Had we waited until evening, yes the vet could
have put her to sleep, but that would have been pure torture for her and
for my family.

>These decisions will also affect how you can treat more
> valuable
> stock in the future.
>When a good proven producer goes down, and its time
> to
> call the vet you will have the funding to do so if you haven't emptied you
> pocket book and medical cabinet on animals of lesser value. If it sounds
> harsh, thats because it is.
>I had to learn this lesson a long time ago,

*So did I.

> and
> if you ask any rancher or farmer who makes a living from what they do
> they will all tell you with heavy hearts, there is a time to cut your
> losses.
> I honestly wish the best, but if push comes to shub, I really hope you do
> the right thing and don't let her suffer. Call a livestock freind and have
> them show you how to butcher,


* We butcher about approx. 10 goats and 100 chickens a year.

>you'll feel bad about it at first, but just
> know in your heart that you did the right thing, and enjoy your healthy
> animals and the thought that you you can probably save the next one.
> You'll
> get over it quickly if you keep that in mind. It also comes in handy to
> know
> how to butcher if you ever have to deal with victims of dog attacks that
> need to be dispatched immidiatly and humanely.

* Shoot, shovel, shut-up... =-)


Thanks for the advise.  She's a tough gal, I think she'll pull through.  I
just wish that I had known that pen-g wasn't effective for pneumonia 3
days ago.

TTYL,

Hannah K


>
> Good luck,
>
> --
> Lynette Frick
> IDEAL FARM
> Jacob Sheep
> www.idealjacobsheep.com/
>
>
>
> --
> Lynette Frick
> IDEAL FARM
> Jacob Sheep
> www.idealjacobsheep.com/
> _______________________________________________
> Jacob-list mailing list, sponsored by Swallow Lane Farm & Fiberworks
> Jacob-list at jacobsheep.com
> http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/jacob-list
>


-- 
Knox Farms
All Natural Goat's Milk Soaps
Heritage Breed Livestock and Some That We Just Like
Say NO! to National Animal ID System!
http://nonais.org

Member Friends of Traditional Farming
http://fotfarm.org

Blog
blog.knoxfarms.com


From aztreaz at earthlink.net  Wed Nov 26 14:43:37 2008
From: aztreaz at earthlink.net (ARTHUR PARTRIDGE)
Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2008 11:43:37 -0800
Subject: [Jacob-list] sheep update... still need some advise
Message-ID: <410-2200811326194337484@earthlink.net>

>*No. I am quite certain that she is suffering from pneumonia. I spoke
>with my friend this afternoon who told me that pneumonia causing bacteria
>in sheep in my area are resistant to pen-g. We started her on naxcell
>last night.
========
Nuflor is very good for that.  It is specifically for respiratory problems.
If I have a lamb will raspy breathing I give it a dose of Nuflor.  I buy it
at a vet clinic store.  See the website for more info:
http://www.nuflor.com/nuflor_glance/faq.html.  Unlike Pen-G, it doesn't
need storing in a refrigerator.

Good luck,
Cathy
Moscow, Idaho



From aztreaz at earthlink.net  Wed Nov 26 14:57:28 2008
From: aztreaz at earthlink.net (ARTHUR PARTRIDGE)
Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2008 11:57:28 -0800
Subject: [Jacob-list] winter shearing
Message-ID: <410-2200811326195728187@earthlink.net>

>Thanks - I had not even thought of the effects of the extra wool growth
come August
=======
I thought that all that wool in the hottest part of the year would not be
good, but others have told me that wool is an excellent insulator in both
winter cold and summer heat.  One lady from Colorado has black sheep and
they are sheared in February or earlier, I can't remember.  She said they
have no problems with summer heat and they will lie out in the sun with a
full wool coat.  You'd think that a wooly black sheep would suffer in the
summer heat in Colorado, but they do just fine.  Maybe the sheep breeds
react differently and some do better with less wool.  I didn't shear a few
older wethers, intending to take them to the butchers, and they did fine in
the summer heat.  What kills sheep in the heat is overexertion like those
mutton-busting competitions, sometimes the sheep don't live through it on a
hot day. 

Cathy
Moscow, Idaho



From gotothewhip at aol.com  Wed Nov 26 15:22:36 2008
From: gotothewhip at aol.com (gotothewhip at aol.com)
Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2008 15:22:36 -0500
Subject: [Jacob-list] Fwd: sheep update... still need some advise
In-Reply-To: <55099.64.40.83.53.1227726367.squirrel@kit.rc4systems.net>
References: <22872c750811260911jb4f167t825bc6ce415773d@mail.gmail.com><22872c750811260946r71820fc9ye45b804af53d69f1@mail.gmail.com>
	<55099.64.40.83.53.1227726367.squirrel@kit.rc4systems.net>
Message-ID: <8CB1E1BDAD3D6AD-137C-11BB@webmail-db06.sysops.aol.com>

As Per Colorado State University.. You can safely use banamine for extended periods.? I had a ewe on daily (1 ml orally) doses of injectable banamine. She had a fractured vertabrae ( or so suspected by CSU) she got up and got around well most days but would often get stiff and had trouble judging slopes.? She had bloodwork done shortly before we put her down, and there was no indication of problems.? Banamine and other NSAIDS are known to behave a bit diffrently in small ruminants, and from what CSU told me, can be given at heavier doses, for longer periods of time than in horses, or cattle.


-----Original Message-----
From: Hannah <hannah at knoxfarms.com>
To: Lynette Frick <lynettefrick at gmail.com>
Cc: jacob-list at jacobsheep.com <jacob-list at jacobsheep.com>
Sent: Wed, 26 Nov 2008 12:06 pm
Subject: Re: [Jacob-list] Fwd: sheep update... still need some advise



Hey,

To the people who wrote me back about probiotics:  I totally agree.  I am
always aprehensive about administering antibiotics to animals that are
dependant on the organisms that the antibiotics kill.  I always give
probiotics in conjunction with antibiotics to replenish the beneficial
bacteria in their digestive tract.

> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: Lynette Frick <lynettefrick at gmail.com>
> Date: Wed, Nov 26, 2008 at 9:11 AM
> Subject: sheep update... still need some advise
> To: jacob-list-request at jacobsheep.com
>
>
> Hi Hanna,
>
> Have you visited a vet?

*No.  I am quite certain that she is suffering from pneumonia.  I spoke
with my friend this afternoon who told me that pneumonia causing bacteria
in sheep in my area are resistant to pen-g.  We started her on naxcell
last night.

>If she still has a partial blockage then he may be
> able to tube her and deal with it.

*I think that the olive oil, baking soda, and charcoal might have helped,
but a blockage was only a concern until I got her isolated.  Then I was
able to monitor her symptoms more closely.

>If she is grinding her teeth, usually
> that suggests she's in some sort of extreme discomfort, which you
> obviously
> know since you have been treating her with banamine. The tooth grinding is
> what has me most concerned. Have you located the source of her pain?

* I think she hurts when she breathes.  By the way, can you give banamine
to sheep for longer than three days without causing liver damage?

>Are
> her
> feet sore, and how does her breathing sound? You also said that she is
> standing arched backed, that points towards feet or abdominal pain.

* Her feet look great.  She is breathing semi-rapidly with short stops in
between (a little less than a second).

>If you
> don't have a stethiscope, they are pretty cheap, and now may be the time
> to
> get one. You can listen for both stomach sounds, and breathing/heart
> sounds.

* We have two.  I'm not an expert, but my mother (an RN) should be able to
tell me whether there is l
iquid in her lungs.

> Does she have good capilary refil, meaning if you press your thumb against
> her gums does the color come back emidiatly or does it take a while?

* I did not check for that, but her upper and lower conjunctivas have
really good color.

> What's
> her heart rate, and breathing rate? Check healthy lambs for reference
> first,
> measure cap. refil in seconds, and heart in bpm, breaths in breaths/min.
> You
> need to know this, and you need to need to know an average in your flock
> to
> compare against for future reference. It is good info to share with your
> vet
> should you choose to call one.
>
> You also mentioned that she is scouring slightly, what does the poo look
> like, is it watery, is there blood, etc.?

*Its black, thicker than molasses.

>If it isn't a blockage, or a
> disease, it may be hardware disease, especially considereing that she
> doesn't sound like she is responding much to tons of antibiotics. Is your
> hay pretty clean, or was the bale you fed a roadside bale with lots of fun
> stuff, or is you barn kind of rough like mine and maybe she ate a small
> roofing nail/ screw?

*There is very little chance of there being a problem with the hay.

>I'm just tossing out possibilities, but if you have
> access to a vet and *if this ewe is* *valuable get her in!* If you aren't
> particulary attached, and she doesn't start clearing up, butcher her and
> get
> a nice pelt off of her so *she is not completely wasted*. A good pelt is
> worth more than a sick lamb through the auction.

*I have considered this and have been giving her injections in sites that
will not damage the hide.

>Don't let her die first,
> you run the risk of the hide being on too long and loosing wool in
> patches,
> not to mention it is *unethical* and selfish. If you wait too long she
> will
> either be too sick and miserable to be utilized in any way, or if she
> lasts
> long enough, she will have a break in the fleece rendering the pelt and
> fleece worthless.

*I have no intentions of letting this anima
l suffer.  It is obvious that
she is uncomfortable now, however I possess the common sense to know when
she needs to be shot and have the resources to do so.

>When stock get sick, its not the time to be sentimental,
> even if she has a name.

*She has a name, but she isn't tame and doesn't really care for me.

>Tough decisions have to be made to prevent
> prolonged
> suffering.

* This is not the first time I have had to consider difficult decisions. 
I am sure you can imagine how difficult it was to be present when the doe
that I had since I was 12 had to be shot because the vet could not get out
to euthanize her properly.  Had we waited until evening, yes the vet could
have put her to sleep, but that would have been pure torture for her and
for my family.

>These decisions will also affect how you can treat more
> valuable
> stock in the future.
>When a good proven producer goes down, and its time
> to
> call the vet you will have the funding to do so if you haven't emptied you
> pocket book and medical cabinet on animals of lesser value. If it sounds
> harsh, thats because it is.
>I had to learn this lesson a long time ago,

*So did I.

> and
> if you ask any rancher or farmer who makes a living from what they do
> they will all tell you with heavy hearts, there is a time to cut your
> losses.
> I honestly wish the best, but if push comes to shub, I really hope you do
> the right thing and don't let her suffer. Call a livestock freind and have
> them show you how to butcher,


* We butcher about approx. 10 goats and 100 chickens a year.

>you'll feel bad about it at first, but just
> know in your heart that you did the right thing, and enjoy your healthy
> animals and the thought that you you can probably save the next one.
> You'll
> get over it quickly if you keep that in mind. It also comes in handy to
> know
> how to butcher if you ever have to deal with victims of dog attacks that
> need to be dispatched immidiatly and humanely.

* Shoot, shovel, shut-up... =-)


Thanks for the advise.  She's a tough ga
l, I think she'll pull through.  I
just wish that I had known that pen-g wasn't effective for pneumonia 3
days ago.

TTYL,

Hannah K


>
> Good luck,
>
> --
> Lynette Frick
> IDEAL FARM
> Jacob Sheep
> www.idealjacobsheep.com/
>
>
>
> --
> Lynette Frick
> IDEAL FARM
> Jacob Sheep
> www.idealjacobsheep.com/
> _______________________________________________
> Jacob-list mailing list, sponsored by Swallow Lane Farm & Fiberworks
> Jacob-list at jacobsheep.com
> http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/jacob-list
>


-- 
Knox Farms
All Natural Goat's Milk Soaps
Heritage Breed Livestock and Some That We Just Like
Say NO! to National Animal ID System!
http://nonais.org

Member Friends of Traditional Farming
http://fotfarm.org

Blog
blog.knoxfarms.com

_______________________________________________
Jacob-list mailing list, sponsored by Swallow Lane Farm & Fiberworks
Jacob-list at jacobsheep.com
http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/jacob-list

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From wedohoney at sbcglobal.net  Wed Nov 26 20:40:43 2008
From: wedohoney at sbcglobal.net (JACI SIEHL)
Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2008 17:40:43 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Jacob-list] sheep update... still need some advise
In-Reply-To: <410-2200811326194337484@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <798536.64113.qm@web80607.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

I suggest to add saline to the Nuflor 50/50.? Nurflor is very thick and takes a long time to inject and still seems to be a painful injection.? My vet suggested the saline and it sure makes it easier.
?
Also, my vet 


?
Jack and Jaci

--- On Wed, 11/26/08, ARTHUR PARTRIDGE <aztreaz at earthlink.net> wrote:

From: ARTHUR PARTRIDGE <aztreaz at earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: [Jacob-list] sheep update... still need some advise
To: "jacob-list" <jacob-list at jacobsheep.com>
Date: Wednesday, November 26, 2008, 11:43 AM

>*No. I am quite certain that she is suffering from pneumonia. I spoke
>with my friend this afternoon who told me that pneumonia causing bacteria
>in sheep in my area are resistant to pen-g. We started her on naxcell
>last night.
========
Nuflor is very good for that.  It is specifically for respiratory problems.
If I have a lamb will raspy breathing I give it a dose of Nuflor.  I buy it
at a vet clinic store.  See the website for more info:
http://www.nuflor.com/nuflor_glance/faq.html.  Unlike Pen-G, it doesn't
need storing in a refrigerator.

Good luck,
Cathy
Moscow, Idaho


_______________________________________________
Jacob-list mailing list, sponsored by Swallow Lane Farm & Fiberworks
Jacob-list at jacobsheep.com
http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/jacob-list
-------------- next part --------------
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From wedohoney at sbcglobal.net  Wed Nov 26 20:44:02 2008
From: wedohoney at sbcglobal.net (JACI SIEHL)
Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2008 17:44:02 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Jacob-list] sheep update... still need some advise
In-Reply-To: <798536.64113.qm@web80607.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <85902.53996.qm@web80602.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

don't know what happened while I was typing but anyway I was going to say my vet also suggested to use Banamine at 50% dosage for up to 10 days, not as a painkiller but as antiflammatory.


?
Jack and Jaci

--- On Wed, 11/26/08, JACI SIEHL <wedohoney at sbcglobal.net> wrote:

From: JACI SIEHL <wedohoney at sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Re: [Jacob-list] sheep update... still need some advise
To: jacob-list at jacobsheep.com
Date: Wednesday, November 26, 2008, 5:40 PM







I suggest to add saline to the Nuflor 50/50.? Nurflor is very thick and takes a long time to inject and still seems to be a painful injection.? My vet suggested the saline and it sure makes it easier.
?
Also, my vet 


?
Jack and Jaci

--- On Wed, 11/26/08, ARTHUR PARTRIDGE <aztreaz at earthlink.net> wrote:

From: ARTHUR PARTRIDGE <aztreaz at earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: [Jacob-list] sheep update... still need some advise
To: "jacob-list" <jacob-list at jacobsheep.com>
Date: Wednesday, November 26, 2008, 11:43 AM

>*No. I am quite certain that she is suffering from pneumonia. I spoke
>with my friend this afternoon who told me that pneumonia causing bacteria
>in sheep in my area are resistant to pen-g. We started her on naxcell
>last night.
========
Nuflor is very good for that.  It is specifically for respiratory problems.
If I have a lamb will raspy breathing I give it a dose of Nuflor.  I buy it
at a vet clinic store.  See the website for more info:
http://www.nuflor.com/nuflor_glance/faq.html.  Unlike Pen-G, it doesn't
need storing in a refrigerator.

Good luck,
Cathy
Moscow, Idaho


_______________________________________________
Jacob-list mailing list, sponsored by Swallow Lane Farm & Fiberworks
Jacob-list at jacobsheep.com
http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/jacob-list
_______________________________________________
Jacob-list mailing list, sponsored by Swallow Lane Farm & Fiberworks
Jacob-list at jacobsheep.com
http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/jacob-list
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From hannah at knoxfarms.com  Wed Nov 26 22:18:31 2008
From: hannah at knoxfarms.com (Hannah)
Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2008 22:18:31 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [Jacob-list] sheep update... still need some advise
In-Reply-To: <85902.53996.qm@web80602.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <798536.64113.qm@web80607.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<85902.53996.qm@web80602.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <51002.64.40.83.53.1227755911.squirrel@kit.rc4systems.net>

Those are both great ideas.  I am going to give her some IV fluids
tomorrow morning.  Hopefully that will give her a boost.
I listened to her lungs.  Her breathing sounds very labored and raspy. 
There is definately liquid in there.  I know that she cannot go on
breathing like this for many more days.  This afternoon we gave her 1ml of
dexamethasone.

I check on my animals at least once a day and this was very sudden.  Is
that common?  Did I just miss something?


> don't know what happened while I was typing but anyway I was going to say
> my vet also suggested to use Banamine at 50% dosage for up to 10 days, not
> as a painkiller but as antiflammatory.
>
>
>
> Jack and Jaci
>
> --- On Wed, 11/26/08, JACI SIEHL <wedohoney at sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>
> From: JACI SIEHL <wedohoney at sbcglobal.net>
> Subject: Re: [Jacob-list] sheep update... still need some advise
> To: jacob-list at jacobsheep.com
> Date: Wednesday, November 26, 2008, 5:40 PM
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> I suggest to add saline to the Nuflor 50/50.  Nurflor is very thick and
> takes a long time to inject and still seems to be a painful injection.  My
> vet suggested the saline and it sure makes it easier.
>
> Also, my vet
>
>
>
> Jack and Jaci
>
> --- On Wed, 11/26/08, ARTHUR PARTRIDGE <aztreaz at earthlink.net> wrote:
>
> From: ARTHUR PARTRIDGE <aztreaz at earthlink.net>
> Subject: Re: [Jacob-list] sheep update... still need some advise
> To: "jacob-list" <jacob-list at jacobsheep.com>
> Date: Wednesday, November 26, 2008, 11:43 AM
>
>>*No. I am quite certain that she is suffering from pneumonia. I spoke
>>with my friend this afternoon who told me that pneumonia causing bacteria
>>in sheep in my area are resistant to pen-g. We started her on naxcell
>>last night.
> =======Nuflor is very good for that.  It is specifically for respiratory
> problems.
> If I have a lamb will raspy breathing I give it a dose of Nuflor.  I buy
> it
> at a vet clinic store.  See the website for more info:
> http://www.nuflor.com/nuflor_glance/faq.html.  Unlike Pen-G, it doesn't
> need storing in a refrigerator.
>
> Good luck,
> Cathy
> Moscow, Idaho
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Jacob-list mailing list, sponsored by Swallow Lane Farm & Fiberworks
> Jacob-list at jacobsheep.com
> http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/jacob-list
> _______________________________________________
> Jacob-list mailing list, sponsored by Swallow Lane Farm & Fiberworks
> Jacob-list at jacobsheep.com
> http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/jacob-list
> _______________________________________________
> Jacob-list mailing list, sponsored by Swallow Lane Farm & Fiberworks
> Jacob-list at jacobsheep.com
> http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/jacob-list
>


-- 
Knox Farms
All Natural Goat's Milk Soaps
Heritage Breed Livestock and Some That We Just Like
Say NO! to National Animal ID System!
http://nonais.org

Member Friends of Traditional Farming
http://fotfarm.org

Blog
blog.knoxfarms.com


From patchworkfibers at alltel.net  Fri Nov 28 07:03:38 2008
From: patchworkfibers at alltel.net (Linda)
Date: Fri, 28 Nov 2008 07:03:38 -0500
Subject: [Jacob-list] sheep update... still need some advise
In-Reply-To: <51002.64.40.83.53.1227755911.squirrel@kit.rc4systems.net>
Message-ID: <200811287338.217789@Linda-PC>

Two years ago, I found a ram dead in the morning. He had been perfectly fine the night before. My first thought was a broken neck as he had been fighting with the other rams the evening before. I took him to the local vet for a necropsy. His lungs were full of fluid. He showed absolutely no sign of respiratory distress the evening before. And I do monitor my sheep closely. The vet said the only thing that would cause such complete and rapid shutdown of organs was a toxin. We'd gotten a couple of bales of hay from feed store the day before and used it for the rams, so that a primary suspect. Later that afternoon, a second ram died.

Also, could it be inhalation pneumonia? 

Or possibly bacterial? I had a ewe that had consistent diarrhea for weeks, with no parasite infestation showing up in fecals. I took a sample to the vet and he didn't find anything, either. He recommended Sustain Calf Boluses (Sulfamethazine) as he felt it was bacterial scours.  The ewe cleared up a few days and has had no recurrence. I'm not sure that relates to the pneumonia, but I believe that Sulfamethazine is also used for shipping fever and forms of bacterial pneumonia.

Linda 



> Those are both great ideas.  I am going to give her some IV fluids
> tomorrow morning.  Hopefully that will give her a boost.
> I listened to her lungs.  Her breathing sounds very labored and
> raspy.
> There is definately liquid in there.  I know that she cannot go on
> breathing like this for many more days.  This afternoon we gave her
> 1ml of
> dexamethasone.
>
> I check on my animals at least once a day and this was very sudden.
> Is
> that common?  Did I just miss something?

? 
http://www.patchworkfibers.com 
Registered Jacob Sheep, Handspun Yarn  
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From hannah at knoxfarms.com  Fri Nov 28 16:39:12 2008
From: hannah at knoxfarms.com (Hannah)
Date: Fri, 28 Nov 2008 16:39:12 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [Jacob-list] sheep update... still need some advise
In-Reply-To: <8CB1E9B0D69626C-1170-11F6@FWM-D07.sysops.aol.com>
References: <798536.64113.qm@web80607.mail.mud.yahoo.com><85902.53996.qm@web80602.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<51002.64.40.83.53.1227755911.squirrel@kit.rc4systems.net>
	<8CB1E9B0D69626C-1170-11F6@FWM-D07.sysops.aol.com>
Message-ID: <58113.64.40.83.53.1227908352.squirrel@kit.rc4systems.net>

Hello,

> Hannah,
>
> Someone on the list recommended contacting a vet, which is very advisable.
> Did you receive your Dex dosing from a vet?

*The three medications that we are working with are naxcell (antibiotic),
banamine (anti-inflamitory, rever reducer), and dexamethasone (steroid),
all of which are prescription medications.  This lamb would not have
lasted this long had she not recieved immediate treatment.  Further more,
I cannot afford a $300+ emergency Thanksgiving vet visit which is not
worth her weight in salt.  I am taking this entire series of unfortunate
events as a learning experience - hopefully one in which she will survive.

>I wasn't sure if you
> administered than IV or IM (or SubQ) but, depending on the method of
> administration, the dosing seems rather low for a sheep that might way 100
> lbs.?

*This drug is administered IM.  We use it whenever an animal must be
treated for extended periods of time.  I found a dosage online for sheep,
but I also read that the dosage depends upon the symptoms that the animal
is presenting.  The dose that we gave her is adequate for her weight and
symptoms.

> Meds are beneficial indeed but they do not offer full effects unless
> they are administered properly and in the correct dosing.

*No!  Really?
  LOL, no offense...

> Also, the mg/ml
> amount in your Dex will be a factor. Meds listed for other species often
> are not 'labeled' for sheep but are used by vets frequently. This is the
> case for Banamine, as well as a number of other drugs, including various
> dewormers like Ivomec and Dectomax. What dosing of Banamine are you using?

*1ml/50#

> One of the effects of Banamine on sheep tends to be that is really upsets
> the rumen, as some folks have mentioned to you already.

*  I believe any mention of rumen inbalance was in reference to the
affects of antibiotics, but thanks for bringing this to my attention.  I
didn't know that banamine would do it too.  I actually forgot to give her
her probios yesterday.  I think shes been eating some feed.

> It can be used for
> longer periods of time but again, vet supervision or consult is often
> recommended.
>
> I hope your sheep makes some progress soon!


*Thanks!  She was out and about this morning.  Her breathing is still
fast, but not as labored.

TTYL,

Hannah K

>
> This afternoon we gave her 1ml of
> dexamethasone.
>
>
>
>
> Cheryl in WV
> http://paintedrockfarm.blogspot.com
> http://www.paintedrockfarm.com
>
> WHEN EVERYTHING THAT CAN BE SHAKEN IS SHAKEN, THE ANCHOR THAT HOLDS IS THE
> WISDOM OF THE CROSS. (Jason Upton, Key of David Ministries, from the CD
> 1200 ft below sea level)
>
> If you want to see God's power at work, you must get out of the church and
> into the world. Watch the extravagant lengths which God will go to reveal
> Himself to people who don't know Him. Then you will learn how truly
> awesome our God is. (Author Unknown)
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Hannah <hannah at knoxfarms.com>
> To: wedohoney at sbcglobal.net
> Cc: jacob-list at jacobsheep.com
> Sent: Wed, 26 Nov 2008 10:18 pm
> Subject: Re: [Jacob-list] sheep update... still need some advise
>
>
>
> Those are both great ideas.  I am going to give her some IV fluids
> tomorrow morning.  Hopefully that will give her a boost.
> I listened to her lungs.  Her breathing sounds very labored and raspy.
> There is definately liquid in there.  I know that she cannot go on
> breathing like this for many more days.  This afternoon we gave her 1ml of
> dexamethasone.
>
> I check on my animals at least once a day and this was very sudden.  Is
> that common?  Did I just miss something?
>
>
>> don't know what happened while I was typing but anyway I was going to
>> say
>> my vet also suggested to use Banamine at 50% dosage for up to 10 days,
>> not
>> as a painkiller but as antiflammatory.
>>
>>
>>
>> Jack and Jaci
>>
>> --- On Wed, 11/26/08, JACI SIEHL <wedohoney at sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>
>> From: JACI SIEHL <wedohoney at sbcglobal.net>
>> Subject: Re: [Jacob-list] sheep update... still need some advise
>> To: jacob-list at jacobsheep.com
>> Date: Wednesday, November 26, 2008, 5:40 PM
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> I suggest to add saline to the Nuflor 50/50.  Nurflor is very thick and
>> takes a long time to inject and still seems to be a painful injection.
>> My
>> vet suggested the saline and it sure makes it easier.
>>
>> Also, my vet
>>
>>
>>
>> Jack and Jaci
>>
>> --- On Wed, 11/26/08, ARTHUR PARTRIDGE <aztreaz at earthlink.net> wrote:
>>
>> From: ARTHUR PARTRIDGE <aztreaz at earthlink.net>
>> Subject: Re: [Jacob-list] sheep update... still need some advise
>> To: "jacob-list" <jacob-list at jacobsheep.com>
>> Date: Wednesday, November 26, 2008, 11:43 AM
>>
>>>*No. I am quite certain that she is suffering from pneumonia. I spoke
>>>with my friend this afternoon who told me that pneumonia causing
>>> bacteria
>>>in sheep in my area are resistant to pen-g. We started her on naxcell
>>>last night.
>> =======Nuflor is very good for that.  It is specifically for respiratory
>> problems.
>> If I have a lamb will raspy breathing I give it a dose of Nuflor.  I buy
>> it
>> at a vet clinic store.  See the website for more info:
>> http://www.nuflor.com/nuflor_glance/faq.html.  Unlike Pen-G, it doesn't
>> need storing in a
> refrigerator.
>>
>> Good luck,
>> Cathy
>> Moscow, Idaho
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Jacob-list mailing list, sponsored by Swallow Lane Farm & Fiberworks
>> Jacob-list at jacobsheep.com
>> http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/jacob-list
>> _______________________________________________
>> Jacob-list mailing list, sponsored by Swallow Lane Farm & Fiberworks
>> Jacob-list at jacobsheep.com
>> http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/jacob-list
>> _______________________________________________
>> Jacob-list mailing list, sponsored by Swallow Lane Farm & Fiberworks
>> Jacob-list at jacobsheep.com
>> http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/jacob-list
>>
>
>
> --
> Knox Farms
> All Natural Goat's Milk Soaps
> Heritage Breed Livestock and Some That We Just Like
> Say NO! to National Animal ID System!
> http://nonais.org
>
> Member Friends of Traditional Farming
> http://fotfarm.org
>
> Blog
> blog.knoxfarms.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> Jacob-list mailing list, sponsored by Swallow Lane Farm & Fiberworks
> Jacob-list at jacobsheep.com
> http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/jacob-list
>
>


-- 
Knox Farms
All Natural Goat's Milk Soaps
Heritage Breed Livestock and Some That We Just Like
Say NO! to National Animal ID System!
http://nonais.org

Member Friends of Traditional Farming
http://fotfarm.org

Blog
blog.knoxfarms.com


From paintedrockfarm at aol.com  Fri Nov 28 20:31:18 2008
From: paintedrockfarm at aol.com (Cheryl Terrano)
Date: Fri, 28 Nov 2008 20:31:18 -0500
Subject: [Jacob-list] sheep update... still need some advise
In-Reply-To: <58113.64.40.83.53.1227908352.squirrel@kit.rc4systems.net>
Message-ID: <8CB1FD94FB3DB62-1314-E51@WEBMAIL-MA21.sysops.aol.com>

WOW on the Banamine dose! That's way more than my vet has ever recommended for my own sheep, going on a 72 hour dose. Like I mentioned, a vet is your best bet for getting a dose based upon the individual animal's issue. Banamine is a pain reliever...reminds me a lot of aspirin in the fact that it tends to upset the stomach. 

When we raised hogs, we had a sow with a difficult birthing and we had to administer Banamine for several days. My vet was out of town and the relief vet had me give her a double daily dose, then she promptly went off feed after 48 hours - my own vet called me back after getting back in town and recommended to lay off the high doses of Banamine, switch mostly to Dexasone, continue antibiotics and probios. Within 24 hours, she was eating again and almost normal within 48 hours. Of course, that was a pig, not a sheep and pigs are monogasatric (single stomachs), not ruminants.

Sounds like your gal is making headway - keep up the probios.

Good luck!
Cheryl


Hannah wrote...*1ml/50#

> One of the effects of Banamine on sheep tends to be that is really upsets
> the rumen, as some folks have mentioned to you already.

*? I believe any mention of rumen inbalance was in reference to the
affects of antibiotics, but thanks for bringing this to my attention.? I
didn't know that banamine would do it too.? I actually forgot to give her
her probios yesterday.? I think shes been eating some feed.





Cheryl in WV
http://paintedrockfarm.blogspot.com
http://www.paintedrockfarm.com

WHEN EVERYTHING THAT CAN BE SHAKEN IS SHAKEN, THE ANCHOR THAT HOLDS IS THE WISDOM OF THE CROSS. (Jason Upton, Key of David Ministries, from the CD 1200 ft below sea level)

If you want to see God's power at work, you must get out of the church and into the world. Watch the extravagant lengths which God will go to reveal Himself to people who don't know Him. Then you will learn how truly awesome our God is. (Author Unknown)


-----Original Message-----
From: Hannah <hannah at knoxfarms.com>
To: Cheryl Terrano <paintedrockfarm at aol.com>
Cc: Jacob-list <jacob-list at jacobsheep.com>
Sent: Fri, 28 Nov 2008 4:39 pm
Subject: Re: [Jacob-list] sheep update... still need some advise



Hello,

> Hannah,
>
> Someone on the list recommended contacting a vet, which is very advisable.
> Did you receive your Dex dosing from a vet?

*The three medications that we are working with are naxcell (antibiotic),
banamine (anti-inflamitory, rever reducer), and dexamethasone (steroid),
all of which are prescription medications.  This lamb would not have
lasted this long had she not recieved immediate treatment.  Further more,
I cannot afford a $300+ emergency Thanksgiving vet visit which is not
worth her weight in salt.  I am taking this entire series of unfortunate
events as a learning experience - hopefully one in which she will survive.

>I wasn't sure if you
> administered than IV or IM (or SubQ) but, depending on the method of
> administration, the dosing seems rather low for a sheep that might way 100
> lbs.?

*This drug is administered IM.  We use it whenever an animal must be
treated for extended periods of time.  I found a dosage online for sheep,
but I also read that the dosage depends upon the symptoms that the animal
is presenting.  The dose that we gave her is adequate for her weight and
symptoms.

> Meds are beneficial indeed but they do not offer full effects unless
> they are administered properly and in the correct dosing.

*No!  Really?
  LOL, no offense...

> Also, the mg/ml
> amount in your Dex will be a factor. Meds listed for other species often
> are not 'labeled' for sheep but are used by vets frequently. This is the
> case for Banamine, as well as a number of other drugs, including various
> dewormers like Ivomec and Dectomax. What dosing of Banamine are you using?

*1ml/50#

> One of the effects of Banamine on sheep tends to be that is really upsets
> the rumen, as some folks have mentioned to you already.

*  I believe any mention of rumen inbalance was in reference to the
affects of antibiotics, but thanks for bringing this to my attention.  I
didn't know that banamine would do it too.  I actually forgot to give her
her probios yesterday.  I think shes been eating some feed.

> It
 can be used for
> longer periods of time but again, vet supervision or consult is often
> recommended.
>
> I hope your sheep makes some progress soon!


*Thanks!  She was out and about this morning.  Her breathing is still
fast, but not as labored.

TTYL,

Hannah K

>
> This afternoon we gave her 1ml of
> dexamethasone.
>
>
>
>
> Cheryl in WV
> http://paintedrockfarm.blogspot.com
> http://www.paintedrockfarm.com
>
> WHEN EVERYTHING THAT CAN BE SHAKEN IS SHAKEN, THE ANCHOR THAT HOLDS IS THE
> WISDOM OF THE CROSS. (Jason Upton, Key of David Ministries, from the CD
> 1200 ft below sea level)
>
> If you want to see God's power at work, you must get out of the church and
> into the world. Watch the extravagant lengths which God will go to reveal
> Himself to people who don't know Him. Then you will learn how truly
> awesome our God is. (Author Unknown)
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Hannah <hannah at knoxfarms.com>
> To: wedohoney at sbcglobal.net
> Cc: jacob-list at jacobsheep.com
> Sent: Wed, 26 Nov 2008 10:18 pm
> Subject: Re: [Jacob-list] sheep update... still need some advise
>
>
>
> Those are both great ideas.  I am going to give her some IV fluids
> tomorrow morning.  Hopefully that will give her a boost.
> I listened to her lungs.  Her breathing sounds very labored and raspy.
> There is definately liquid in there.  I know that she cannot go on
> breathing like this for many more days.  This afternoon we gave her 1ml of
> dexamethasone.
>
> I check on my animals at least once a day and this was very sudden.  Is
> that common?  Did I just miss something?
>
>
>> don't know what happened while I was typing but anyway I was going to
>> say
>> my vet also suggested to use Banamine at 50% dosage for up to 10 days,
>> not
>> as a painkiller but as antiflammatory.
>>
>>
>>
>> Jack and Jaci
>>
>> --- On Wed, 11/26/08, JACI SIEHL <wedohoney at sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>
>> From: JACI SIEHL <wedohoney at sbcglobal.net>
>> Subject: Re: [Jacob-list] sheep update... still need some advise
>> To: jacob-list at jacobsheep.com
>> Date:
 Wednesday, November 26, 2008, 5:40 PM
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> I suggest to add saline to the Nuflor 50/50.  Nurflor is very thick and
>> takes a long time to inject and still seems to be a painful injection.
>> My
>> vet suggested the saline and it sure makes it easier.
>>
>> Also, my vet
>>
>>
>>
>> Jack and Jaci
>>
>> --- On Wed, 11/26/08, ARTHUR PARTRIDGE <aztreaz at earthlink.net> wrote:
>>
>> From: ARTHUR PARTRIDGE <aztreaz at earthlink.net>
>> Subject: Re: [Jacob-list] sheep update... still need some advise
>> To: "jacob-list" <jacob-list at jacobsheep.com>
>> Date: Wednesday, November 26, 2008, 11:43 AM
>>
>>>*No. I am quite certain that she is suffering from pneumonia. I spoke
>>>with my friend this afternoon who told me that pneumonia causing
>>> bacteria
>>>in sheep in my area are resistant to pen-g. We started her on naxcell
>>>last night.
>> =======Nuflor is very good for that.  It is specifically for respiratory
>> problems.
>> If I have a lamb will raspy breathing I give it a dose of Nuflor.  I buy
>> it
>> at a vet clinic store.  See the website for more info:
>> http://www.nuflor.com/nuflor_glance/faq.html.  Unlike Pen-G, it doesn't
>> need storing in a
> refrigerator.
>>
>> Good luck,
>> Cathy
>> Moscow, Idaho
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Jacob-list mailing list, sponsored by Swallow Lane Farm & Fiberworks
>> Jacob-list at jacobsheep.com
>> http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/jacob-list
>> _______________________________________________
>> Jacob-list mailing list, sponsored by Swallow Lane Farm & Fiberworks
>> Jacob-list at jacobsheep.com
>> http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/jacob-list
>> _______________________________________________
>> Jacob-list mailing list, sponsored by Swallow Lane Farm & Fiberworks
>> Jacob-list at jacobsheep.com
>> http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/jacob-list
>>
>
>
> --
> Knox Farms
> All Natural Goat's Milk Soaps
> Heritage Breed Livestock and Some That We Just Like
> Say NO! to National Animal ID System!
> http://nonais.org
>
> Member
 Friends of Traditional Farming
> http://fotfarm.org
>
> Blog
> blog.knoxfarms.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> Jacob-list mailing list, sponsored by Swallow Lane Farm & Fiberworks
> Jacob-list at jacobsheep.com
> http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/jacob-list
>
>


-- 
Knox Farms
All Natural Goat's Milk Soaps
Heritage Breed Livestock and Some That We Just Like
Say NO! to National Animal ID System!
http://nonais.org

Member Friends of Traditional Farming
http://fotfarm.org

Blog
blog.knoxfarms.com

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From gotothewhip at aol.com  Sat Nov 29 11:02:10 2008
From: gotothewhip at aol.com (gotothewhip at aol.com)
Date: Sat, 29 Nov 2008 11:02:10 -0500
Subject: [Jacob-list] sheep update... still need some advise
In-Reply-To: <8CB1FD94FB3DB62-1314-E51@WEBMAIL-MA21.sysops.aol.com>
Message-ID: <8CB2052F886DD8B-BEC-196A@WEBMAIL-MY11.sysops.aol.com>


 


 


 I had one on long term Banamine... We gave ORALLY 1 ml/100#? of the injectable up to twice daily.. but usually once a day.? CSU told me that ruminants, specifically small ruminants metabolise Banamine and onther NSAIDS diffrently than Monogstrics.? Most Monogastrics see the ill effects of NSAID in digestive upset, and gastric ulcers.? I was told by CSU that there is no known effects from long term use of Banamine in small ruminants. I had a ewe on daily and occasional BID Banamine for aout 9 months with no ill effects.? 

Jennifer Tucker
wwwMooseMtnRanch.com
?

-----Original Message-----
From: Cheryl Terrano <paintedrockfarm at aol.com>
To: hannah at knoxfarms.com
Cc: jacob-list at jacobsheep.com
Sent: Fri, 28 Nov 2008 6:31 pm
Subject: Re: [Jacob-list] sheep update... still need some advise









WOW on the Banamine dose! That's way more than my vet has ever recommended for my own sheep, going on a 72 hour dose. Like I mentioned, a vet is your best bet for getting a dose based upon the individual animal's issue. Banamine is a pain reliever...reminds me a lot of aspirin in the fact that it tends to upset the stomach. 



When we raised hogs, we had a sow with a difficult birthing and we had to administer Banamine for several days. My vet was out of town and the relief vet had me give her a double daily dose, then she promptly went off feed after 48 hours - my own vet called me back after getting back in town and recommended to lay off the high doses of Banamine, switch mostly to Dexasone, continue antibiotics and probios. Within 24 hours, she was eating again and almost normal within 48 hours. Of course, that was a pig, not a sheep and pigs are monogasatric (single stomachs), not ruminants.



Sounds like your gal is making headway - keep up the probios.



Good luck!

Cheryl





Hannah wrote...*1ml/50#



> One of the effects of Banamine on sheep tends to be that is really upsets

> the rumen, as some folks have mentioned to you already.



*? I believe any mention of rumen inbalance was in reference to the

affects of antibiotics, but thanks for bringing this to my attention.? I

didn't know that banamine would do it too.? I actually forgot to give her

her probios yesterday.? I think shes been eating some feed.












Cheryl in WV

http://paintedrockfarm.blogspot.com

http://www.paintedrockfarm.com



WHEN EVERYTHING THAT CAN BE SHAKEN IS SHAKEN, THE ANCHOR THAT HOLDS IS THE WISDOM OF THE CROSS. (Jason Upton, Key of David Ministries, from the CD 1200 ft below sea level)



If you want to see God's power at work, you must get out of the church and into the world. Watch the extravagant lengths which God will go to reveal Himself to people who don't know Him. Then you will learn how truly awesome our God is. (Author Unknown)





-----Original Message-----

From: Hannah <hannah at knoxfarms.com>

To: Cheryl Terrano <paintedrockfarm at aol.com>

Cc: Jacob-list <jacob-list at jacobsheep.com>

Sent: Fri, 28 Nov 2008 4:39 pm

Subject: Re: [Jacob-list] sheep update... still need some advise







Hello,

> Hannah,
>
> Someone on the list recommended contacting a vet, which is very advisable.
> Did you receive your Dex dosing from a vet?

*The three medications that we are working with are naxcell (antibiotic),
banamine (anti-inflamitory, rever reducer), and dexamethasone (steroid),
all of which are prescription medications.  This lamb would not have
lasted this long had she not recieved immediate treatment.  Further more,
I cannot afford a $300+ emergency Thanksgiving vet visit which is not
worth her weight in salt.  I am taking this entire series of unfortunate
events as a learning experience - hopefully one in which she will survive.

>I wasn't sure if you
> administered than IV or IM (or SubQ) but, depending on the method of
> administration, the dosing seems rather low for a sheep that might way 100
> lbs.?

*This drug is administered IM.  We use it whenever an animal must be
treated for extended periods of time.  I found a dosage online for sheep,
but I also read that the dosage depends upon the symptoms that the animal
is presenting.  The dose that we gave her is adequate for her weight and
symptoms.

> Meds are beneficial indeed but they do not offer full effects unless
> they are administered properly and in the correct dosing.

*No!  Really?
  LOL, no offense...

> Also, the mg/ml
> amount in your Dex will be a factor. Meds listed for other species often
> are not 'labeled' for sheep but are used by vets frequently. This is the
> case for Banamine, as well as a number of other drugs, including various
> dewormers like Ivomec and Dectomax. What dosing of Banamine are you using?

*1ml/50#

> One of the effects of Banamine on sheep tends to be that is really upsets
> the rumen, as some folks have mentioned to you already.

*  I believe any mention of rumen inbalance was in reference to the
affects of antibiotics, but thanks for bringing this to my attention.  I
didn't know that banamine would do it too.  I actually forgot to give her
her probios yesterday.  I think shes been eating some feed.

> It can be used for
> longer periods of time but again, vet supervision or consult is often
> recommended.
>
> I hope your sheep makes some progress soon!


*Thanks!  She was out and about this morning.  Her breathing is still
fast, but not as labored.

TTYL,

Hannah K

>
> This afternoon we gave her 1ml of
> dexamethasone.
>
>
>
>
> Cheryl in WV
> http://paintedrockfarm.blogspot.com
> http://www.paintedrockfarm.com
>
> WHEN EVERYTHING THAT CAN BE SHAKEN IS SHAKEN, THE ANCHOR THAT HOLDS IS THE
> WISDOM OF THE CROSS. (Jason Upton, Key of David Ministries, from the CD
> 1200 ft below sea level)
>
> If you want to see God's power at work, you must get out of the church and
> into the world. Watch the extravagant lengths which God will go to reveal
> Himself to people who don't know Him. Then you will learn how truly
> awesome our God is. (Author Unknown)
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Hannah <hannah at knoxfarms.com>
> To: wedohoney at sbcglobal.net
> Cc: jacob-list at jacobsheep.com
> Sent: Wed, 26 Nov 2008 10:18 pm
> Subject: Re: [Jacob-list] sheep update... still need some advise
>
>
>
> Those are both great ideas.  I am going to give her some IV fluids
> tomorrow morning.  Hopefully that will give her a boost.
> I listened to her lungs.  Her breathing sounds very labored and raspy.
> There is definately liquid in there.  I know that she cannot go on
> breathing like this for many more days.  This afternoon we gave her 1ml of
> dexamethasone.
>
> I check on my animals at least once a day and this was very sudden.  Is
> that common?  Did I just miss something?
>
>
>> don't know what happened while I was typing but anyway I was going to
>> say
>> my vet also suggested to use Banamine at 50% dosage for up to 10 days,
>> not
>> as a painkiller but as antiflammatory.
>>
>>
>>
>> Jack and Jaci
>>
>> --- On Wed, 11/26/08, JACI SIEHL <wedohoney at sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>
>> From: JACI SIEHL <wedohoney at sbcglobal.net>
>> Subject: Re: [Jacob-list] sheep update... still need some advise
>> To: jacob-list at jacobsheep.com
>> Date: Wednesday, November 26, 2008, 5:40 PM
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> I suggest to add saline to the Nuflor 50/50.  Nurflor is very thick and
>> takes a long time to inject and still seems to be a painful injection.
>> My
>> vet suggested the saline and it sure makes it easier.
>>
>> Also, my vet
>>
>>
>>
>> Jack and Jaci
>>
>> --- On Wed, 11/26/08, ARTHUR PARTRIDGE <aztreaz at earthlink.net> wrote:
>>
>> From: ARTHUR PARTRIDGE <aztreaz at earthlink.net>
>> Subject: Re: [Jacob-list] sheep update... still need some advise
>> To: "jacob-list" <jacob-list at jacobsheep.com>
>> Date: Wednesday, November 26, 2008, 11:43 AM
>>
>>>*No. I am quite certain that she is suffering from pneumonia. I spoke
>>>with my friend this afternoon who told me that pneumonia causing
>>> bacteria
>>>in sheep in my area are resistant to pen-g. We started her on naxcell
>>>last night.
>> =======Nuflor is very good for that.  It is specifically for respiratory
>> problems.
>> If I have a lamb will raspy breathing I give it a dose of Nuflor.  I buy
>> it
>> at a vet clinic store.  See the website for more info:
>> http://www.nuflor.com/nuflor_glance/faq.html.  Unlike Pen-G, it doesn't
>> need storing in a
> refrigerator.
>>
>> Good luck,
>> Cathy
>> Moscow, Idaho
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Jacob-list mailing list, sponsored by Swallow Lane Farm & Fiberworks
>> Jacob-list at jacobsheep.com
>> http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/jacob-list
>> _______________________________________________
>> Jacob-list mailing list, sponsored by Swallow Lane Farm & Fiberworks
>> Jacob-list at jacobsheep.com
>> http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/jacob-list
>> _______________________________________________
>> Jacob-list mailing list, sponsored by Swallow Lane Farm & Fiberworks
>> Jacob-list at jacobsheep.com
>> http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/jacob-list
>>
>
>
> --
> Knox Farms
> All Natural Goat's Milk Soaps
> Heritage Breed Livestock and Some That We Just Like
> Say NO! to National Animal ID System!
> http://nonais.org
>
> Member Friends of Traditional Farming
> http://fotfarm.org
>
> Blog
> blog.knoxfarms.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> Jacob-list mailing list, sponsored by Swallow Lane Farm & Fiberworks
> Jacob-list at jacobsheep.com
> http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/jacob-list
>
>


-- 
Knox Farms
All Natural Goat's Milk Soaps
Heritage Breed Livestock and Some That We Just Like
Say NO! to National Animal ID System!
http://nonais.org

Member Friends of Traditional Farming
http://fotfarm.org

Blog
blog.knoxfarms.com




 



 





_______________________________________________
Jacob-list mailing list, sponsored by Swallow Lane Farm & Fiberworks
Jacob-list at jacobsheep.com
http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/jacob-list



 

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From ncd at mitre.org  Sun Nov 30 21:16:30 2008
From: ncd at mitre.org (Donnangelo, Nick)
Date: Sun, 30 Nov 2008 21:16:30 -0500
Subject: [Jacob-list] sheep update... still need some advise
In-Reply-To: <51002.64.40.83.53.1227755911.squirrel@kit.rc4systems.net>
References: <798536.64113.qm@web80607.mail.mud.yahoo.com><85902.53996.qm@web80602.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<51002.64.40.83.53.1227755911.squirrel@kit.rc4systems.net>
Message-ID: <90A462F2D6E869478007CD2F65DE877C03101D11@IMCSRV5.MITRE.ORG>

I am not a vet, but would like any vets on the list to comment; I
thought that steroids are absolutely contraindicated when pneumonia is
suspected.  Nick

-----Original Message-----
From: jacob-list-bounces at jacobsheep.com
[mailto:jacob-list-bounces at jacobsheep.com] On Behalf Of Hannah
Sent: Wednesday, November 26, 2008 10:19 PM
To: wedohoney at sbcglobal.net
Cc: jacob-list at jacobsheep.com
Subject: Re: [Jacob-list] sheep update... still need some advise

Those are both great ideas.  I am going to give her some IV fluids
tomorrow morning.  Hopefully that will give her a boost.
I listened to her lungs.  Her breathing sounds very labored and raspy. 
There is definately liquid in there.  I know that she cannot go on
breathing like this for many more days.  This afternoon we gave her 1ml
of
dexamethasone.

I check on my animals at least once a day and this was very sudden.  Is
that common?  Did I just miss something?


> don't know what happened while I was typing but anyway I was going to
say
> my vet also suggested to use Banamine at 50% dosage for up to 10
days, not
> as a painkiller but as antiflammatory.
>
>
>
> Jack and Jaci
>
> --- On Wed, 11/26/08, JACI SIEHL <wedohoney at sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>
> From: JACI SIEHL <wedohoney at sbcglobal.net>
> Subject: Re: [Jacob-list] sheep update... still need some advise
> To: jacob-list at jacobsheep.com
> Date: Wednesday, November 26, 2008, 5:40 PM
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> I suggest to add saline to the Nuflor 50/50.  Nurflor is very thick
and
> takes a long time to inject and still seems to be a painful
injection.  My
> vet suggested the saline and it sure makes it easier.
>
> Also, my vet
>
>
>
> Jack and Jaci
>
> --- On Wed, 11/26/08, ARTHUR PARTRIDGE <aztreaz at earthlink.net> wrote:
>
> From: ARTHUR PARTRIDGE <aztreaz at earthlink.net>
> Subject: Re: [Jacob-list] sheep update... still need some advise
> To: "jacob-list" <jacob-list at jacobsheep.com>
> Date: Wednesday, November 26, 2008, 11:43 AM
>
>>*No. I am quite certain that she is suffering from pneumonia. I spoke
>>with my friend this afternoon who told me that pneumonia causing
bacteria
>>in sheep in my area are resistant to pen-g. We started her on naxcell
>>last night.
> =======Nuflor is very good for that.  It is specifically for
respiratory
> problems.
> If I have a lamb will raspy breathing I give it a dose of Nuflor.  I
buy
> it
> at a vet clinic store.  See the website for more info:
> http://www.nuflor.com/nuflor_glance/faq.html.  Unlike Pen-G, it
doesn't
> need storing in a refrigerator.
>
> Good luck,
> Cathy
> Moscow, Idaho
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Jacob-list mailing list, sponsored by Swallow Lane Farm & Fiberworks
> Jacob-list at jacobsheep.com
> http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/jacob-list
> _______________________________________________
> Jacob-list mailing list, sponsored by Swallow Lane Farm & Fiberworks
> Jacob-list at jacobsheep.com
> http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/jacob-list
> _______________________________________________
> Jacob-list mailing list, sponsored by Swallow Lane Farm & Fiberworks
> Jacob-list at jacobsheep.com
> http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/jacob-list
>


-- 
Knox Farms
All Natural Goat's Milk Soaps
Heritage Breed Livestock and Some That We Just Like
Say NO! to National Animal ID System!
http://nonais.org

Member Friends of Traditional Farming
http://fotfarm.org

Blog
blog.knoxfarms.com

_______________________________________________
Jacob-list mailing list, sponsored by Swallow Lane Farm & Fiberworks
Jacob-list at jacobsheep.com
http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/jacob-list