From lbbdvm at londonderryvet.com  Thu May  1 12:45:31 2008
From: lbbdvm at londonderryvet.com (Lia Belanger)
Date: Thu, 1 May 2008 12:45:31 -0400
Subject: [Jacob-list] md sheep and wool
Message-ID: <003201c8abaa$c593d8d0$6a01010a@LBELANGER>

Who is going to MD Sheep and Wool this weekend?

 

I haven't heard anything about it.  I assume that JSBA will have a booth and
that we can bring stuff to sell.  Yes?  I would like to help out at the
booth but I need to coordinate with my family as we will have our kids
along.  Is there a contact person for this?

 

Thanks!  Looking forward to seeing y'all!

 

Lia Belanger Book

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From spotted_sheep at bluefrog.com  Thu May  1 12:59:21 2008
From: spotted_sheep at bluefrog.com (spotted_sheep at bluefrog.com)
Date: Thu, 1 May 2008 09:59:21 -0700
Subject: [Jacob-list] md sheep and wool
Message-ID: <20080501095921.A4DD284C@resin18.mta.everyone.net>

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From rmitschler at gmail.com  Thu May  1 13:08:26 2008
From: rmitschler at gmail.com (Ralene Mitschler)
Date: Thu, 1 May 2008 13:08:26 -0400
Subject: [Jacob-list] md sheep and wool
In-Reply-To: <003201c8abaa$c593d8d0$6a01010a@LBELANGER>
References: <003201c8abaa$c593d8d0$6a01010a@LBELANGER>
Message-ID: <6a515c580805011008t63bdc5ecu616b1f925698f95f@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Lia and LIstersRandy and I will be helping out with the JSBA booth setup
F and Saturday.  Hope to help pack up on Sunday but can't help in the booth
during Sunday.  Wendy Chavin has moved to CA so Ruth Ross handled the
paperwork last year for this year's booth.  Royal  is doing most of the
shelving etc hauling (and storage)...We hope to get there shortly after
lunch Friday to help set up and early before opening on saturday too.  I
think since Wendy and Elizabeth are not there this year that we have plenty
of room for more volunteers...(this is only our  second year helping out)

my understanding is that you are more than welcome to bring stuff.  I have
Ruth's email if you want to send her a note.  She mentioned a discussion of
prices on Friday during setup.  Ruth's note mentioned to be sure tags are
clearly labeled with your name so sellers can be sure to keep track.

Ralene Mitschler and Randy Morrison


On Thu, May 1, 2008 at 12:45 PM, Lia Belanger <lbbdvm at londonderryvet.com>
wrote:

>  Who is going to MD Sheep and Wool this weekend?
>
>
>
> I haven't heard anything about it.  I assume that JSBA will have a booth
> and that we can bring stuff to sell.  Yes?  I would like to help out at the
> booth but I need to coordinate with my family as we will have our kids
> along.  Is there a contact person for this?
>
>
>
> Thanks!  Looking forward to seeing y'all!
>
>
>
> Lia Belanger Book
>
> _______________________________________________
> Jacob-list mailing list, sponsored by Swallow Lane Farm & Fiberworks
> Jacob-list at jacobsheep.com
> http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/jacob-list
>
>


-- 
Ralene R. Mitschler, Ph.D.
Associate Professor of Biology
McDaniel College
2 College Hill
Westminster MD 21157
410.857.2406

Ralene Mitschler
Chicory Lane Farm Jacob sheep
www.blueflowerflock.com
687 Oxford Ave
Hanover PA 17331
rmitschler at gmail.com
717.630.2988
717.817.3794 cell
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From Gotothewhip at aol.com  Thu May  1 20:26:11 2008
From: Gotothewhip at aol.com (Gotothewhip at aol.com)
Date: Thu, 1 May 2008 20:26:11 EDT
Subject: [Jacob-list] Fuzzy Lamb questions
Message-ID: <c6a.2d6b5a71.354bb9a3@aol.com>

What causes the fuzzy look of some lambs?  I noticed it on 2 lambs for  the 
most part this year.. Bot out of older ewes.  Gomers ewe lamb has tight  curly 
wool, but little tips that have a fuzzy look... and the same is of  Delilah's 
Ram lamb.. Her ewe lamb does not have this.   The other  trend I saw is that 
both these lambs were over 10 lbs at birth... any  connection?
 
HEre is a link to my lamb page so you can see what I mean.
 
_http://moosemtnranch.com/lambs.asp_ (http://moosemtnranch.com/lambs.asp) 



**************Wondering what's for Dinner Tonight? Get new twists on family 
favorites at AOL Food.      
(http://food.aol.com/dinner-tonight?NCID=aolfod00030000000001)
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From walkabout at pemtel.net  Fri May  2 11:33:21 2008
From: walkabout at pemtel.net (Susan Donoghue)
Date: Fri, 2 May 2008 11:33:21 -0400
Subject: [Jacob-list] New list member
Message-ID: <3481DA55-B26D-412F-A788-6DC44D649641@pemtel.net>

Hello to the List

I've just joined your list, and plan to lurk as I learn from you all.  
My small farm is in southwestern Virginia, and I'm a recently retired  
veterinarian coming back to sheep after working in other areas for  
more than 20 years.  My plan is to purchase a small flock of Jacob  
sheep, or purchase from several bloodlines and build a flock, over  
the next year or so.  I have a couple working border collies and a  
couple working horses.  Myself and my dogs are taking herding lessons  
from Laura Noll, and also "apprenticing" with her flock of dorsets as  
my sheep husbandry techniques  are remembered, refreshed, and updated.

Thanks for the opportunity to join this list.
Susan Donoghue, VMD
Walkabout Farm

From fourhornfarm at verizon.net  Fri May  2 17:11:02 2008
From: fourhornfarm at verizon.net (fourhornfarm)
Date: Fri, 2 May 2008 17:11:02 -0400
Subject: [Jacob-list] New list member
References: <3481DA55-B26D-412F-A788-6DC44D649641@pemtel.net>
Message-ID: <002601c8ac99$07e549a0$4001a8c0@DollyLama>

Welcome to the list Susan.

Carl Fosbrink
4Horn Farm's Jacob Sheep
www.4hornfarm.com 



----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Susan Donoghue" <walkabout at pemtel.net>
To: <jacob-list at jacobsheep.com>
Sent: Friday, May 02, 2008 11:33 AM
Subject: [Jacob-list] New list member


> Hello to the List
> 
> I've just joined your list, and plan to lurk as I learn from you all.  
> My small farm is in southwestern Virginia, and I'm a recently retired  
> veterinarian coming back to sheep after working in other areas for  
> more than 20 years.  My plan is to purchase a small flock of Jacob  
> sheep, or purchase from several bloodlines and build a flock, over  
> the next year or so.  I have a couple working border collies and a  
> couple working horses.  Myself and my dogs are taking herding lessons  
> from Laura Noll, and also "apprenticing" with her flock of dorsets as  
> my sheep husbandry techniques  are remembered, refreshed, and updated.
> 
> Thanks for the opportunity to join this list.
> Susan Donoghue, VMD
> Walkabout Farm
> _______________________________________________
> Jacob-list mailing list, sponsored by Swallow Lane Farm & Fiberworks
> Jacob-list at jacobsheep.com
> http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/jacob-list
>

From rshaffer1959 at msn.com  Sat May  3 18:21:39 2008
From: rshaffer1959 at msn.com (Ron Shaffer)
Date: Sat, 3 May 2008 18:21:39 -0400
Subject: [Jacob-list] Jacob Ram for Sale
In-Reply-To: <mailman.11.1209831314.57166.jacob-list@jacobsheep.com>
References: <mailman.11.1209831314.57166.jacob-list@jacobsheep.com>
Message-ID: <BAY102-W328FA784A99723DCE2E659DED50@phx.gbl>


We have a 2 horn Jacob Ram- 1 yr old this month for sale.  Parents from Peaceful Valley Farm flock.  We are located in SE TN.  Please reply directly for pic and price.
Cynthia
Red Clay Farmrshaffer1959 at msn.com
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From paigebowser at gmail.com  Sun May  4 00:14:59 2008
From: paigebowser at gmail.com (Paige Bowser)
Date: Sun, 4 May 2008 00:14:59 -0400
Subject: [Jacob-list] swollen lamb
Message-ID: <ee9783d0805032114k59be8cas854b6cdf827e3932@mail.gmail.com>

Hello all - I came home today to find my bottle lamb looks like he has
swallowed a bowling ball.  He is still on his formula, has alfalfa hay to
eat, and grain free choice.  I don't think he is eating very much grain or
grass, he nibbles at the alfalfa, but then again I don't watch him 24 / 7.
We gave him some pepto, and read through the lamb problems section in
Raising Sheep the Modern Way.  How common are "Water Belly" and "Urinary
Calculi" (sp) ? What do you guys think? He is 5 weeks old, and very small
compared to his brothers, but then again thats why he is on a bottle.
Thanks for your help!
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From lynettefrick at gmail.com  Sun May  4 01:23:36 2008
From: lynettefrick at gmail.com (Lynette Frick)
Date: Sat, 3 May 2008 22:23:36 -0700
Subject: [Jacob-list] Ewes for Sale/ Sheep Trip
Message-ID: <22872c750805032223h7c253038w8e5481e5cf2e2390@mail.gmail.com>

Hi all,

Just wanted to mention that current circumstances have forced us to sell
some adult ewes. Their pictures are all listed on my ewe pages, so if anyone
is interested please email me for more information- pics., records, etc. I
can ship to AGM, and locally. Prices start at $100 OBO for proven ewes. They
are only being sold due to financial instability. Most have produced twins.
I need to have them re-homed rather quickly unfortunately. We also have
quite a few lambs left as well. I will be redoing the lamb page soon, but at
least the pictures have been updated. Ewe lambs are $200 OBO. and wethers
are $85. Price reduced on groups of 3 or more. As for the wethers, I only
wethered lambs with excellent birth fleeces, so they should be great for
spinners flocks.

Adult Ewes for Sale:

bide a wee Thea
Hillside Lauren's Gloria
Hillside Samantha's Clover
Hillside Rosemary's Pepper
Hillside Paula's Little Lamb

Thank you for your time, I hope all is going well for all of you.

Lynette Frick
IDEAL FARM
Jacob Sheep
www.idealjacobsheep.com


Ps. To anyone who I have not been able to email back about the sheep trip,
I'm sorry but I had to cancel this year. I've been trying to get caught back
up on emails and am failing miserably! Please accept my apology for being so
tardy in my reply.
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From info at brenalanfarm.com  Sun May  4 11:36:21 2008
From: info at brenalanfarm.com (Brenalan Farm)
Date: Sun, 4 May 2008 08:36:21 -0700
Subject: [Jacob-list] infovets
Message-ID: <0beb01c8adfc$9a6c45d0$0a00a8c0@searlecenter>

Have any of you subscribed to www.infovets.com? They say for $30 you can read all of their on line info, watch all their how- to videos, and use their chat with a vet/ bulletin board type services. The diagnostic flow charts (e.g. why is my sheep lame) sound really useful. I'd particularly appreciate commentary on how prompt and useful the chat with a vet service has been.

Brenda
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From rockytopjacobs at att.net  Sun May  4 19:01:19 2008
From: rockytopjacobs at att.net (Jason Anders)
Date: Sun, 04 May 2008 23:01:19 +0000
Subject: [Jacob-list] Updated Website!
Message-ID: <050420082301.7857.481E403F0002D25300001EB122216128369B0A02D29B9B0EBF030E9FD2970E06D29C9D0A0B020E@att.net>

Hello All!

Hey! Check out our updated website at http://rockytopjacobs.home.att.net.   We enjoy the great info everyone has to give on the Jacob's list.

                                                                             Jason Anders
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From lasell at lasell.org  Mon May  5 08:03:50 2008
From: lasell at lasell.org (Lasell J. Bartlett)
Date: Mon, 5 May 2008 08:03:50 -0400
Subject: [Jacob-list] infovets
In-Reply-To: <0beb01c8adfc$9a6c45d0$0a00a8c0@searlecenter>
References: <0beb01c8adfc$9a6c45d0$0a00a8c0@searlecenter>
Message-ID: <35943A7D-BBEB-4E27-B724-AF7DE012D7C6@lasell.org>


On May 4, 2008, at 11:36 AM, Brenalan Farm wrote:

> Have any of you subscribed to www.infovets.com? They say for $30  
> you can read all of their on line info, watch all their how- to  
> videos, and use their chat with a vet/ bulletin board type  
> services. The diagnostic flow charts (e.g. why is my sheep lame)  
> sound really useful. I'd particularly appreciate commentary on how  
> prompt and useful the chat with a vet service has been.


I would like to know about them as well.

I've been receiving a multitude of unsolicited emails from them for  
several years, each one 'reminding me' that my subscription has run  
out. But I never subscribed in the first place.

So if someone knows that they are a genuine and useful service, I  
will take the time to communicate with them about better customer  
service practices because so far, they have left me cringing each  
time I see their email.

Lasell


From Gone2theDawgs at gmail.com  Mon May  5 10:48:42 2008
From: Gone2theDawgs at gmail.com (Tammy)
Date: Mon, 05 May 2008 07:48:42 -0700
Subject: [Jacob-list] Invitation to view Tammy's Picasa Web Album - Lambs
	for sale
Message-ID: <000e0cd259b8f0bb28044c7cd350@google.com>

Hi all, here are some pics of the ram lambs I have available. Apollo 
has a lovely fleece and nice markings. The other two boys are out of 
lilac parents even though they are both B/W. :(   If interested please 
contact me @: gone2thedawgs at gmail.com   I am in Monroe, WA (could 
possible catch a ride for them down to the AGM) Tammy

http://picasaweb.google.com/Gone2theDawgs/LambsForSale
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From carlfosbrink at yahoo.com  Tue May  6 12:00:09 2008
From: carlfosbrink at yahoo.com (CARL FOSBRINK)
Date: Tue, 6 May 2008 09:00:09 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Jacob-list] New list member
In-Reply-To: <3481DA55-B26D-412F-A788-6DC44D649641@pemtel.net>
Message-ID: <492569.44465.qm@web55502.mail.re4.yahoo.com>

Welcome Susan. I'm sure we will all benefit from your knowledge as a veterinarian and hopefully you will gain something from us.
   
  Carl & Judy
  

Susan Donoghue <walkabout at pemtel.net> wrote:
  Hello to the List

I've just joined your list, and plan to lurk as I learn from you all. 
My small farm is in southwestern Virginia, and I'm a recently retired 
veterinarian coming back to sheep after working in other areas for 
more than 20 years. My plan is to purchase a small flock of Jacob 
sheep, or purchase from several bloodlines and build a flock, over 
the next year or so. I have a couple working border collies and a 
couple working horses. Myself and my dogs are taking herding lessons 
from Laura Noll, and also "apprenticing" with her flock of dorsets as 
my sheep husbandry techniques are remembered, refreshed, and updated.

Thanks for the opportunity to join this list.
Susan Donoghue, VMD
Walkabout Farm
_______________________________________________
Jacob-list mailing list, sponsored by Swallow Lane Farm & Fiberworks
Jacob-list at jacobsheep.com
http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/jacob-list



Carl and Judy Fosbrink
  www.4hornfarm.com
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From mnelson at farmerstel.com  Tue May  6 16:24:45 2008
From: mnelson at farmerstel.com (Melissa Nelson)
Date: Tue, 6 May 2008 15:24:45 -0500
Subject: [Jacob-list] shearer needed
Message-ID: <019f01c8afb7$39db52d0$02800a0a@userc7142d7c37>


A woman that has llamas promised to come shear my sheep last month.  She was a no-show and I can't get in touch with her.  My sheep are hot!!!!  Does anyone know of a shearer that will come to NE Alabama?
Thanks,
Melissa
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From patchworkfibers at alltel.net  Tue May  6 16:31:07 2008
From: patchworkfibers at alltel.net (Linda)
Date: Tue, 6 May 2008 16:31:07 -0400
Subject: [Jacob-list] [jacob-sheep] shearer needed
In-Reply-To: <019f01c8afb7$39db52d0$02800a0a@userc7142d7c37>
Message-ID: <20085616317.957239@patchwor-efob1t>

Hi Melissa,

Randy Pinson 770 546 3695 is in Cartersville, GA.  I think he's about 90 miles from you.  He drives over 100 miles to shear mine, so I imagine he'd come shear yours.  I highly recommend him. 

Linda
 
www.patchworkfibers.com
Registered Jacob Sheep, Angora Rabbits, Handspun Yarn

>
> A woman that has llamas promised to come shear my sheep last month.
>  She was a no-show and I can't get in touch with her.  My sheep are
> hot!!!!  Does anyone know of a shearer that will come to NE Alabama?
> Thanks,
> Melissa
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Community email addresses:
> Post message: jacob-sheep at onelist.com
> Subscribe:    jacob-sheep-subscribe at onelist.com
> Unsubscribe:  jacob-sheep-unsubscribe at onelist.com List owner:
> jacob-sheep-owner at onelist.com
>
> Shortcut URL to this page:
> http://www.onelist.com/community/jacob-sheepYahoo! Groups Links
>
> To visit your group on the web, go to:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/jacob-sheep/
>
> Your email settings:
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>
> To change settings online go to:
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>
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>
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>
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From Gotothewhip at aol.com  Wed May  7 14:44:36 2008
From: Gotothewhip at aol.com (Gotothewhip at aol.com)
Date: Wed, 7 May 2008 14:44:36 EDT
Subject: [Jacob-list] Very concerned... Injured ram question
Message-ID: <ccd.32e9b2ef.35535294@aol.com>

My vet is out of the office today (and every Wed) and only the small animal  
guy is in.... If this is a major concern, I can go to another vet office out 
of  town.
 
 
After I got home from CSU yesterday (Really cool, got to see an  
Echo-cardiogram done on my old girl with a murmur) and spending a lovely morning  with 
Mickey from Broken O.. I arrived home last night to find my special guy, a  
yearling 4 horn ram bloody faced in his shed.  He had a argument with one  of his 
buddies last week, and seemed OK, but apparently the argument wasn't  over.
 
I got him out of that pen, and penned him separate... Got bloodstop put on  
the horn, It wiggles, but seems attached.  and let him be by himself.   His 
appetite is good, and seems bright,  His eye on that side seems a bit  swollen, 
but I'm not sure if that's from the caked on blood.  I really  don't want to 
fester it right now as it , for the most part isn't bleeding  anymore.  Id like 
to clean him up, but worry that it will only make it  worse by re-opening it.
 
HOWEVER... HE has a very mild bloody nose.   Obviously the damage to his horn 
is significant enough that he is bleeding a  little thru his sinus cavity.
 
Is this an emergency situation.. or a wait it out kinda deal? I did give  him 
1.5cc of banamine, in case there is any swelling up there, and to manage the  
whopping headache I imagine he has.



**************Wondering what's for Dinner Tonight? Get new twists on family 
favorites at AOL Food.      
(http://food.aol.com/dinner-tonight?NCID=aolfod00030000000001)
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From nlgrose at yadtel.net  Wed May  7 15:00:42 2008
From: nlgrose at yadtel.net (Neal and Louise Grose)
Date: Wed, 7 May 2008 15:00:42 -0400
Subject: [Jacob-list] Very concerned... Injured ram question
References: <ccd.32e9b2ef.35535294@aol.com>
Message-ID: <001001c8b074$a76fb530$6402a8c0@HAL2>

I have seen damage of this nature bad enough that you could move the skull segment that the bone is attached to. They sometimes die on the third day after such incounters. Do not take him anywhere. Keep him very quiet and keep him on banimine.

Neal Grose
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Gotothewhip at aol.com 
  To: jacob-list at jacobsheep.com 
  Sent: Wednesday, May 07, 2008 2:44 PM
  Subject: [Jacob-list] Very concerned... Injured ram question


  My vet is out of the office today (and every Wed) and only the small animal guy is in.... If this is a major concern, I can go to another vet office out of town.


  After I got home from CSU yesterday (Really cool, got to see an Echo-cardiogram done on my old girl with a murmur) and spending a lovely morning with Mickey from Broken O.. I arrived home last night to find my special guy, a yearling 4 horn ram bloody faced in his shed.  He had a argument with one of his buddies last week, and seemed OK, but apparently the argument wasn't over.

  I got him out of that pen, and penned him separate... Got bloodstop put on the horn, It wiggles, but seems attached.  and let him be by himself.  His appetite is good, and seems bright,  His eye on that side seems a bit swollen, but I'm not sure if that's from the caked on blood.  I really don't want to fester it right now as it , for the most part isn't bleeding anymore.  Id like to clean him up, but worry that it will only make it worse by re-opening it.

  HOWEVER... HE has a very mild bloody nose.  Obviously the damage to his horn is significant enough that he is bleeding a little thru his sinus cavity.

  Is this an emergency situation.. or a wait it out kinda deal? I did give him 1.5cc of banamine, in case there is any swelling up there, and to manage the whopping headache I imagine he has.





------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Wondering what's for Dinner Tonight? Get new twists on family favorites at AOL Food.


------------------------------------------------------------------------------


  _______________________________________________
  Jacob-list mailing list, sponsored by Swallow Lane Farm & Fiberworks
  Jacob-list at jacobsheep.com
  http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/jacob-list
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From rlynde at onramp113.org  Wed May  7 15:18:04 2008
From: rlynde at onramp113.org (Robin Lynde)
Date: Wed, 7 May 2008 12:18:04 -0700
Subject: [Jacob-list] Very concerned... Injured ram question
References: <ccd.32e9b2ef.35535294@aol.com>
Message-ID: <005901c8b077$14203130$6401a8c0@your4dacd0ea75>

I don't think it's an emergency, but watch the swelling. Take a look at Ranger's photos on my website: http://www.meridianjacobs.com/sheep.html Do you see how in the lower photo his right horns are tipped sideways more than in the upper photo? And the lower horn is right near his face now? He got in a fight around Christmas time and all I saw was a bit of blood around the base of the horn. After a few days I realized that they eye was very swollen and seemed damaged. Well, it turns out that there was so much swelling behind his eye that the eyeball was pushed too far forward for him to be able to close the lid over it. That is what caused the damage to the eye itself. I put him in a separate pen and started him on antibiotics and banamine, as well an ophthalmic ointment several times a day. I would also stretch the eyelid over the eyeball after using the ointment and hold it there for a short time. I treated him for a few weeks (I think) with the banamine and for longer with the ointment. 

I just checked my notes and he was injured 12/28. I started penicillin 3 days later and switched to nuflor which I continued for a couple of weeks. Ranger felt good enough to jump out of the pen and find a ewe in heat on shearing day (Jan 13) which means I'll have lambs in June, 2 1/2 months after every one else has lambed. I still kept him separate until I felt as though he had healed more. We decided that he broke the skull--when you wiggled the top the horn the lower one moved with it as if the whole corner of his skull was separate from the rest. Now his horns are tipped and his eye looks funny because it sits in a slightly different position. By the way, he has only a small cloudy area in the middle of the eyeball, but the rest of the eye healed. That was amazing considering how bad it looked. 

I wondered about brain injury, but like my vet said, he doesn't need to drive heavy machinery so if he can find the ewes it probably doesn't matter.
Robin Lynde
Meridian Jacobs
Vacaville, CA 
www.meridianjacobs.com 
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Gotothewhip at aol.com 
  To: jacob-list at jacobsheep.com 
  Sent: Wednesday, May 07, 2008 11:44 AM
  Subject: [Jacob-list] Very concerned... Injured ram question


  My vet is out of the office today (and every Wed) and only the small animal guy is in.... If this is a major concern, I can go to another vet office out of town.


  After I got home from CSU yesterday (Really cool, got to see an Echo-cardiogram done on my old girl with a murmur) and spending a lovely morning with Mickey from Broken O.. I arrived home last night to find my special guy, a yearling 4 horn ram bloody faced in his shed.  He had a argument with one of his buddies last week, and seemed OK, but apparently the argument wasn't over.

  I got him out of that pen, and penned him separate... Got bloodstop put on the horn, It wiggles, but seems attached.  and let him be by himself.  His appetite is good, and seems bright,  His eye on that side seems a bit swollen, but I'm not sure if that's from the caked on blood.  I really don't want to fester it right now as it , for the most part isn't bleeding anymore.  Id like to clean him up, but worry that it will only make it worse by re-opening it.

  HOWEVER... HE has a very mild bloody nose.  Obviously the damage to his horn is significant enough that he is bleeding a little thru his sinus cavity.

  Is this an emergency situation.. or a wait it out kinda deal? I did give him 1.5cc of banamine, in case there is any swelling up there, and to manage the whopping headache I imagine he has.





------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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From sittinginmycomfynewchair at yahoo.com  Thu May  8 10:43:52 2008
From: sittinginmycomfynewchair at yahoo.com (moira pepperstein)
Date: Thu, 8 May 2008 07:43:52 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Jacob-list] My Ram wasn't a baby-daddy
Message-ID: <727034.87475.qm@web55612.mail.re4.yahoo.com>

I bought him last August, he had some worm issues
which he seemed to recover from. I put him to work
the end of November. No luck at all. He appears to
be in good health, he's heavier and more dominant than
my other ram of the same age that did father a fine
set of twin girls. Any thoughts? Sell him for meat?
Give him another chance?

http://youandyouroilthing.blogspot.com/

http://newhomesteadermagazine.blogspot.com/


      ____________________________________________________________________________________
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From beegal7 at yahoo.com  Thu May  8 16:08:04 2008
From: beegal7 at yahoo.com (Meg Steensland)
Date: Thu, 8 May 2008 13:08:04 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Jacob-list] My Ram wasn't a baby-daddy
In-Reply-To: <727034.87475.qm@web55612.mail.re4.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <565883.24109.qm@web31503.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

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From patchworkfibers at alltel.net  Thu May  8 16:14:06 2008
From: patchworkfibers at alltel.net (Linda)
Date: Thu, 8 May 2008 16:14:06 -0400
Subject: [Jacob-list] My Ram wasn't a baby-daddy
In-Reply-To: <727034.87475.qm@web55612.mail.re4.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20085816146.181622@patchwor-efob1t>

Where are you located? How many ewes did he have? Was he a ram lamb?  How long was he with his ewes?

Here in the southeast, I've heard of a number of fertility problems in both rams and bucks. The drought probably had something to do with it, as well as temperatures in the 90's well into September.

If I really liked the ram, I'd try him again this fall - but follow him with a clean up ram.

Linda
 
www.patchworkfibers.com
Registered Jacob Sheep, Angora Rabbits, Handspun Yarn

> I bought him last August, he had some worm issues
> which he seemed to recover from. I put him to work the end of
> November. No luck at all. He appears to be in good health, he's
> heavier and more dominant than my other ram of the same age that
> did father a fine set of twin girls. Any thoughts? Sell him for
> meat? Give him another chance?

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From rockytopjacobs at att.net  Fri May  9 07:36:24 2008
From: rockytopjacobs at att.net (Jason Anders)
Date: Fri, 09 May 2008 11:36:24 +0000
Subject: [Jacob-list] Lamb having trouble breathing or swallowing?
Message-ID: <050920081136.5870.48243737000F1AD0000016EE22230682329B0A02D29B9B0EBF030E9FD2970E06D29C9D0A0B020E@att.net>

One of our lambs is sort of throwing up but has foam coming out of his mouth and having trouble breathing.   He is shaking his head and getting some of it out but it just keeps coming back up.   He did this once before but it only lasted a short time.  This was about two weeks ago.  This time he is not stopping.  We are new to this breed so would appreciate any help/advice you can offer.

Jason Anders
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From patchworkfibers at alltel.net  Fri May  9 07:39:11 2008
From: patchworkfibers at alltel.net (Linda)
Date: Fri, 9 May 2008 07:39:11 -0400
Subject: [Jacob-list] Lamb having trouble breathing or swallowing?
In-Reply-To: <050920081136.5870.48243737000F1AD0000016EE22230682329B0A02D29B9B0EBF030E9FD2970E06D29C9D0A0B020E@att.net>
Message-ID: <20085973911.022489@patchwor-efob1t>

It sounds like laurel (azalea, rhododendron, mountain laurel would be suspects) poisoning. My neighbor's goats just went through this when they got into the azaleas. She just kept dosing with activated charcoal and they pulled through.

Good luck!
Linda
 
www.patchworkfibers.com
Registered Jacob Sheep, Angora Rabbits, Handspun Yarn

> One of our lambs is sort of throwing up but has foam coming out of
> his mouth and having trouble breathing.   He is shaking his head
> and getting some of it out but it just keeps coming back up.   He
> did this once before but it only lasted a short time.  This was
> about two weeks ago.  This time he is not stopping.  We are new to
> this breed so would appreciate any help/advice you can offer.
>
> Jason Anders
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From rockytopjacobs at att.net  Fri May  9 07:56:40 2008
From: rockytopjacobs at att.net (Jason Anders)
Date: Fri, 09 May 2008 11:56:40 +0000
Subject: [Jacob-list] Lamb having trouble breathing or swallowing?
In-Reply-To: <20085973911.022489@patchwor-efob1t>
References: <050920081136.5870.48243737000F1AD0000016EE22230682329B0A02D29B9B0EBF030E9FD2970E06D29C9D0A0B020E@att.net>
	<20085973911.022489@patchwor-efob1t>
Message-ID: <050920081156.20800.48243BF7000C36BE0000514022230682329B0A02D29B9B0EBF030E9FD2970E06D29C9D0A0B020E@att.net>

How do you dose with activated charcoal?  We have never done this before.  Thanks so much.  It seems he does this after he eats in the morning when my son feeds them a little corn.  Our field is in the woods so it could be possible.

Pam Anders
-------------- Original message from Linda <patchworkfibers at alltel.net>: -------------- 


It sounds like laurel (azalea, rhododendron, mountain laurel would be suspects) poisoning. My neighbor's goats just went through this when they got into the azaleas. She just kept dosing with activated charcoal and they pulled through.

Good luck!
Linda
 
www.patchworkfibers.com
Registered Jacob Sheep, Angora Rabbits, Handspun Yarn


> One of our lambs is sort of throwing up but has foam coming out of
> his mouth and having trouble breathing.  He is shaking his head
> and getting some of it out but it just keeps coming back up.   He
> did this once before but it only lasted a short time.  This was
> about two weeks ago.  This time he is not stopping.  We are new to
> this breed so would appreciate any help/advice you can offer.
>
> Jason Anders
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From patchworkfibers at alltel.net  Fri May  9 08:07:11 2008
From: patchworkfibers at alltel.net (Linda)
Date: Fri, 9 May 2008 08:07:11 -0400
Subject: [Jacob-list] Lamb having trouble breathing or swallowing?
In-Reply-To: <050920081156.20800.48243BF7000C36BE0000514022230682329B0A02D29B9B0EBF030E9FD2970E06D29C9D0A0B020E@att.net>
Message-ID: <2008598711.446952@patchwor-efob1t>

I've never used it so I'm not sure. My neighbor gave it as a drench, so I assume she mixed the powder with water.  You need to get activated charcoal that is specifically for poison treatment. One of the symptoms of laurel poisoning is projectile vomiting, so that's what I think of first when I hear vomiting.  We have alot of laurel here.

Linda 
 
www.patchworkfibers.com
Registered Jacob Sheep, Angora Rabbits, Handspun Yarn

> How do you dose with activated charcoal?  We have never done this
> before.  Thanks so much.  It seems he does this after he eats in
> the morning when my son feeds them a little corn.  Our field is in
> the woods so it could be possible.
>
> Pam Anders
>
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From lambfarm at sover.net  Fri May  9 08:25:28 2008
From: lambfarm at sover.net (Betty Berlenbach)
Date: Fri, 9 May 2008 08:25:28 -0400
Subject: [Jacob-list] Lamb having trouble breathing or swallowing?
References: <2008598711.446952@patchwor-efob1t>
Message-ID: <004601c8b1cf$ca2973c0$59a872d8@USER5AFE0954BF>

Plain ol' vomiting and projectile vomiting, however, are two different things. My son had projectile vomiting as an infant, and it shot all the way across the room and landed on the opposite wall about 12 feet away.  Superpuke!  (Turned out he had pyloric stenosis, and had surgery at six weeks old. No problem thereafter.)
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Linda 
  To: Jason Anders ; jacob-list at jacobsheep.com ; jacob-list at jacobsheep.com 
  Sent: Friday, May 09, 2008 8:07 AM
  Subject: Re: [Jacob-list] Lamb having trouble breathing or swallowing?


  I've never used it so I'm not sure. My neighbor gave it as a drench, so I assume she mixed the powder with water.  You need to get activated charcoal that is specifically for poison treatment. One of the symptoms of laurel poisoning is projectile vomiting, so that's what I think of first when I hear vomiting.  We have alot of laurel here.

  Linda 
   
  www.patchworkfibers.com
  Registered Jacob Sheep, Angora Rabbits, Handspun Yarn


  > How do you dose with activated charcoal?  We have never done this
  > before.  Thanks so much.  It seems he does this after he eats in
  > the morning when my son feeds them a little corn.  Our field is in
  > the woods so it could be possible.
  >
  > Pam Anders
  >


------------------------------------------------------------------------------


  _______________________________________________
  Jacob-list mailing list, sponsored by Swallow Lane Farm & Fiberworks
  Jacob-list at jacobsheep.com
  http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/jacob-list
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From sittinginmycomfynewchair at yahoo.com  Fri May  9 08:26:09 2008
From: sittinginmycomfynewchair at yahoo.com (moira pepperstein)
Date: Fri, 9 May 2008 05:26:09 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Jacob-list] ram lamb not a baby daddy
Message-ID: <497094.50343.qm@web55607.mail.re4.yahoo.com>

Thanks for the advice. I live in NW GA.
I bought the 07 ram lamb from Mike, who
has since gone out of business.
Michelle

http://youandyouroilthing.blogspot.com/

http://newhomesteadermagazine.blogspot.com/


      ____________________________________________________________________________________
Be a better friend, newshound, and 
know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile.  Try it now.  http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ

From wedohoney at sbcglobal.net  Fri May  9 10:45:56 2008
From: wedohoney at sbcglobal.net (JACI SIEHL)
Date: Fri, 9 May 2008 07:45:56 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Jacob-list] Lamb having trouble breathing or swallowing?
In-Reply-To: <004601c8b1cf$ca2973c0$59a872d8@USER5AFE0954BF>
Message-ID: <972083.78390.qm@web80603.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

I feel like I am the last person that should give "medical" advice - but I can tell you what I have experienced.
   
  I always feed grain towards the end of the day - if the sheep have been without food for awhile they would tend to gulp it down and I noticed grain or stemy hay would cause them to do a lot of coughing.  I was told it was due to scratching as it went down because they did not chew it enough.  I don't have that problem if they have been up and browsing during the day.
   
  I had some sheep get into the grain on their own and ended up over-eating.  That and when a lamb had pneumonia were the only times I've seen one of the foaming at the mouth.  I've never had one actually vomit.  They have "coughed up" things from in their throat but actually vomiting from the stomach I haven't had.
   
   


 
  Jack and Jaci
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From Gotothewhip at aol.com  Fri May  9 11:31:52 2008
From: Gotothewhip at aol.com (Gotothewhip at aol.com)
Date: Fri, 9 May 2008 11:31:52 EDT
Subject: [Jacob-list] Update on my Injured Ram
Message-ID: <c96.23649481.3555c868@aol.com>

Goliath seems to be feeling much better... He is still not back with his  
buddies.. but I don't think he is going to be put in there at all.... I think he  
will just get a wether to be his buddy.  The bleeding from the horn and  nose 
has both stopped.  I did a phone consult with Oklahoma State (They  have 
Jacobs as teaching animals at the vet school and understand their  personality, 
and horn injuries) and the said it sounded like a fracture to the  corneal 
process.  and had me put him on Naxel, and continue with Banamine,  just at a 
higher dose.
 
He is feeling good enough that he is starting to find trouble.. last night  
he tried to climb INSIDE the hay cart...  
 
Thank you all for the guidance and thoughtful words!
 
Jennifer Tucker
_www.MooseMtnRanch.com_ (http://www.MooseMtnRanch.com) 



**************Wondering what's for Dinner Tonight? Get new twists on family 
favorites at AOL Food.      
(http://food.aol.com/dinner-tonight?NCID=aolfod00030000000001)
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From bidewee at aol.com  Fri May  9 14:58:06 2008
From: bidewee at aol.com (BIDE WEE)
Date: Fri,  9 May 2008 11:58:06 -0700
Subject: [Jacob-list] Lambies (finally!)
Message-ID: <323962a8.2470.45a9.a4b4.5e1529d5a56d@aol.com>

Hi All,
After a long (10 week!) lambing season we're finally done here and our Jacob lamb photos are now up on our site at www.bideaweefarm.com/2008JacobLambs.htm.  We're located in Oregon but if you're interested in our sheep and need delivery that may be possible.  We'll be traveling to the JSBA AGM in California in early August and have a tentative delivery trip planned in late August through ID, MT, WY, through the SW to MO, then we'll head South from there.  We also have friends traveling to the East Coast this Fall and can send sheep with them.  

Thanks in advance for visiting our lambs :)
Karen Lobb


bide a wee farm
registered Jacob and Navajo-Churro sheep
19562 NE Calkins Lane, Newberg, OR 97132
503-538-7987 ~ karen at bideaweefarm.com 
www.bideaweefarm.com 
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From aztreaz at earthlink.net  Fri May  9 15:27:04 2008
From: aztreaz at earthlink.net (ARTHUR PARTRIDGE)
Date: Fri, 9 May 2008 12:27:04 -0700
Subject: [Jacob-list] Lamb having trouble breathing or swallowing?
Message-ID: <410-2200855919274937@earthlink.net>

--Previous Message--
>One of our lambs is sort of throwing up but has foam coming out of his
mouth and having trouble breathing. He is shaking his head and >getting
some of it out but it just keeps coming back up. He did this once before
but it only lasted a short time. This was about two weeks >ago. This time
he is not stopping. We are new to this breed so would appreciate any
help/advice you can offer.
============
Charcoal is a good, safe remedy. There also is the liquid form of
Pepto-Bismol, given in a small dose to a lamb. Not only good antacid, but
the liquid form contains magnesium aluminum silicate also known as
"driller's mud". This "mud" in the Pepto binds to toxins (or other things
that make our stomach upset) and takes it out of the body. Perfectly safe
for people, dogs, sheep, etc.
 
Cathy
Moscow, Idaho



From kenleighacres at yahoo.com  Fri May  9 16:24:37 2008
From: kenleighacres at yahoo.com (Shannon Phifer)
Date: Fri, 9 May 2008 13:24:37 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Jacob-list] AGM Registration packet advertising and AGM Raffle
Message-ID: <585959.45773.qm@web51002.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

Hi Everyone - I'm sorry if you are receiving this more than once, but I wanted to make sure everyone?gets it!? We are?putting the AGM Registration packets together.? We are offering advertising to?those members?who are interested.? Rates are as follows:? 1/4 page $6, 1/2 page $10, and 1 page $18.? Please let me know immediately if you are interested.? ? 

We are going to end the weekend with a raffle modeled after the tremendously successful raffle at last year's AGM.? Raffle information can be found at:? http://www.kenleigh-acres.com/Raffle.htm
Check back often, as new items will be added frequently.? Please let me know if you are interested in donating an item.? ???

Your AGM committee is working hard to put on an exciting and informative program in Dixon, California.? More information on the AGM can be found here?- http://www.jsba.org/CAAGM.html
?
Shannon Phifer
Kenleigh Acres Farm
www.kenleigh-acres.com
That'll Do Photography
www.thatlldo.photoreflect.com

From bjfab at earthlink.net  Fri May  9 16:43:36 2008
From: bjfab at earthlink.net (Robert Fabry)
Date: Fri, 9 May 2008 14:43:36 -0600
Subject: [Jacob-list] Jacobs in Colorado
Message-ID: <380-22008559204336305@earthlink.net>

Hi,  Does anyone know if there any Jacob breeders in Northeastern Colorado.
We have one ewe and are looking for another ewe with or without a lamb and
possibly a ram.  We need this for our grand daughters FFA project.
Thanks for any help.  Jan
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From patchworkfibers at alltel.net  Fri May  9 20:07:48 2008
From: patchworkfibers at alltel.net (Linda)
Date: Fri, 9 May 2008 20:07:48 -0400
Subject: [Jacob-list] Lamb having trouble breathing or swallowing?
In-Reply-To: <004601c8b1cf$ca2973c0$59a872d8@USER5AFE0954BF>
Message-ID: <20085920748.289020@patchwor-efob1t>

Good point. All vomiting is not projectile and all spitting up food is not vomiting.  Laurel poisoning does cause projectile vomiting.  Are there any other things that cause vomiting (of any kind) in sheep or goats?  Since we started with 20 acres of laurel here, I know about that, but wonder if other poisons/situations might also cause vomiting in sheep?

Linda

 
www.patchworkfibers.com
Registered Jacob Sheep, Angora Rabbits, Handspun Yarn


> Plain ol' vomiting and projectile vomiting, however, are two
> different things. My son had projectile vomiting as an infant, and
> it shot all the way across the room and landed on the opposite wall
> about 12 feet away.  Superpuke!  (Turned out he had pyloric
> stenosis, and had surgery at six weeks old. No problem thereafter.)

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From patchworkfibers at alltel.net  Fri May  9 20:15:36 2008
From: patchworkfibers at alltel.net (Linda)
Date: Fri, 9 May 2008 20:15:36 -0400
Subject: [Jacob-list] Lamb having trouble breathing or swallowing?
In-Reply-To: <410-2200855919274937@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <200859201536.179046@patchwor-efob1t>

Thanks, Cathy

I didn't know that about pepto-bismol.  It's good to know of things we can run to the drugstore to get in an emergency.  Are there forms of charcoal that are safe other than the activated charcoal that you buy from a vet supply?  

Linda
 
www.patchworkfibers.com
Registered Jacob Sheep, Angora Rabbits, Handspun Yarn


> Charcoal is a good, safe remedy. There also is the liquid form of
> Pepto-Bismol, given in a small dose to a lamb. Not only good
> antacid, but the liquid form contains magnesium aluminum silicate
> also known as "driller's mud". This "mud" in the Pepto binds to
> toxins (or other things that make our stomach upset) and takes it
> out of the body. Perfectly safe for people, dogs, sheep, etc.
>
> Cathy
> Moscow, Idaho
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Jacob-list mailing list, sponsored by Swallow Lane Farm &
> Fiberworks Jacob-list at jacobsheep.com
> http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/jacob-list
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From aztreaz at earthlink.net  Fri May  9 22:35:49 2008
From: aztreaz at earthlink.net (ARTHUR PARTRIDGE)
Date: Fri, 9 May 2008 19:35:49 -0700
Subject: [Jacob-list] Lamb having trouble breathing or swallowing?
Message-ID: <410-22008561023549750@earthlink.net>

>Thanks, Cathy
>I didn't know that about pepto-bismol.  It's good to know of things we can
run to the drugstore to get in an emergency.  Are there forms of >charcoal
that are safe other than the activated charcoal that you buy from a vet
supply?  
>Linda
=======
Charcoal is sold at local pet shops and probably online pet shops.  It is
packaged for pet birds, but it probably doesn't take much for a lamb. 
Sometimes our Airedale terrier will eat charcoal (cold) out of our
fireplace.  The dog must know what is good for an upset stomach.

Laura Lawson mentions the use of Pepto Bismol in her ewe-lamb books.  It
coats and protects the lamb's stomach and irritated intestines during the
scours, bottle baby scours.
 
Cathy
Moscow, Idaho
Linda - I am still working on the fleece samples for you.  Just don't have
time to work on fleeces  :o(





From info at brenalanfarm.com  Sat May 10 12:48:29 2008
From: info at brenalanfarm.com (Brenalan Farm)
Date: Sat, 10 May 2008 09:48:29 -0700
Subject: [Jacob-list] activated charcoal
Message-ID: <03dd01c8b2bd$acce1850$0a00a8c0@searlecenter>

www.clintox.org/Pos_Statements/SingleDoseActivatedCharcoal.pdf

The above reference is a starting point for thinking about charcoal. I don't know everything about activated charcoal, but as a chemist-turned-shepherd... I'd caution anyone against pharmaceutical use of chemicals not intended for such. You have to consider both the quantity of contaminants and also the specific nature of the contaminants. I was a not quite so worried about aquarium sources in a pinch just because if it doesn't kill fish (which are very delicate) it is not likely to be extremely toxic to our sheep. But toxicity varies by species- for example- both fish and sheep are easily killed with copper dosages that don't bother some other species.

Keep in mind that charcoal is basically burned wood. Some types of wood are toxic, and I'd think about traces in the charcoal. (Our neighbor played fetch with his dogs using a stick from a cascara tree. Didn't kill the dog but his wife almost killed HIM. Vomiting isn't the only thing that can be "projectile!") The fact that a dog nibbled charcoal is not proof it is nutritious or therapeutic. They eat poop and road kill and ibuprofen too. Secondly, "activation" is very important for the charcoal to develop the surface area and porosity that binds the poison.

It is also important to keep in mind that charcoal doesn't bind every toxin, and can let some be reabsorbed. Also that its effectiveness is variable and appears to diminish over time after ingestion of the poison. And you have to consider how to get the right amount into the stomach and NOT into lungs. A vet can pump the stomach first in dogs- I'd think they could in sheep. But quite likely an antidote or drug to support the sheep until the poison wears off is in order. And if the vet knows a sheep can't be saved, you have the chance to euthanize to prevent further suffering. I love all the advice and tips shared here, but think it is a mistake to not call the vet in a real emergency. And for all the vets who seem to have forgotten the "sheep" chapter in the textbook, most know a lot about poisoning and similar problems common to all animals.

Brenda
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From patchworkfibers at alltel.net  Sat May 10 20:36:00 2008
From: patchworkfibers at alltel.net (Linda)
Date: Sat, 10 May 2008 20:36:00 -0400
Subject: [Jacob-list] rams for sale
Message-ID: <200851020360.838876@patchwor-efob1t>

I have two proven yearling four horned rams for sale - Southwind Sasquatch and Perfect Spot Artemis. I want to use both of them before they leave, so they won't be available until fall.  I am keeping lambs from both. They are both well behaved boys with great markings, fleece, and horns.

Linda
www.patchworkfibers.com
Registered Jacob Sheep, Angora Rabbits, Handspun Yarn
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From Paintedrockfarm at aol.com  Tue May 13 13:41:08 2008
From: Paintedrockfarm at aol.com (Paintedrockfarm at aol.com)
Date: Tue, 13 May 2008 13:41:08 EDT
Subject: [Jacob-list] FINALLY...a website update
Message-ID: <ce0.2cb73ec6.355b2cb4@aol.com>

After a lengthy absence from being able to update my website, I have  secured 
the needed software updates for my program AND have finally learned how  to 
use it properly.  Although, there are still a few kinks (and links) to  update 
and work out, the website it now current with many updated photos, sold  info, 
new listings of sheep for sale and the last page contains some lamb pics  
from the season -- those are needing updated already!
 
More to come!
Mike & Cheryl Terrano
_Painted Rock  Farm_ (http://members.aol.com/paintedrockfarm) 

Buckhannon,  West Virginia 

"For I  have but one candle of life to burn, and I would rather burn it out 
in land  filled with darkness than in one flooded with light." John Keith  
Falconer


Transparent  Shepherding blog: _http://paintedrockfarm.blogspot.com_ 
(http://paintedrockfarm.blogspot.com/)  



**************Wondering what's for Dinner Tonight? Get new twists on family 
favorites at AOL Food.      
(http://food.aol.com/dinner-tonight?NCID=aolfod00030000000001)
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From rlynde at onramp113.org  Wed May 14 02:49:40 2008
From: rlynde at onramp113.org (Robin Lynde)
Date: Tue, 13 May 2008 23:49:40 -0700
Subject: [Jacob-list] bringing sheep to Oregon
Message-ID: <001301c8b58e$af45a660$6401a8c0@your4dacd0ea75>

I have decided to go to Black Sheep Gathering in June. If anyone would like to purchase lambs I can deliver them to Eugene or at stops along the way. I have a lot of lambs from which to choose. Take a look at my website if you want to see the selection of ewe and ram lambs. I have a yearling ram for sale as well  http://www.meridianjacobs.com/sheep_for_sale.html

Robin Lynde

Meridian Jacobs
Vacaville, CA 
www.meridianjacobs.com 
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From Gone2theDawgs at gmail.com  Sun May 18 16:28:04 2008
From: Gone2theDawgs at gmail.com (Tammy)
Date: Sun, 18 May 2008 13:28:04 -0700
Subject: [Jacob-list] Invitation to view Tammy's Picasa Web Album - Adonis
	and Dream
Message-ID: <00163646d90c960dca044d87157b@google.com>

Hi all, I have decided to part with the ram lamb I was going to detain 
and also offer my ram Four Horns Farm Dream for sale after using him 
for breeding in Nov.  Shadow Mountain Adonis is a 4 horn B/W. Dream is 
the ram, Showphar Lana is his dam.  Adonis $250   Dream $300  Tammy 
Knight Wrensong Farm

http://picasaweb.google.com/Gone2theDawgs/AdonisAndDream
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From lynettefrick at gmail.com  Sun May 18 19:54:48 2008
From: lynettefrick at gmail.com (Lynette Frick)
Date: Sun, 18 May 2008 16:54:48 -0700
Subject: [Jacob-list] Modified Sheep Feeder
Message-ID: <22872c750805181654x3da72710p963726678f234959@mail.gmail.com>

Hi everyone,

After much delay, I finally got the instructions to the feeder up on the
Internet. I hope you all find it as useful as I have!

Lynette Frick
IDEAL FARM
Jacob Sheep
www.idealjacobsheep.com/feeder.html
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From info at brenalanfarm.com  Thu May 22 20:36:17 2008
From: info at brenalanfarm.com (Brenalan Farm)
Date: Thu, 22 May 2008 17:36:17 -0700
Subject: [Jacob-list] ram aggression
Message-ID: <0a2901c8bc6d$036384d0$0a00a8c0@searlecenter>

I'd be interested in hearing from the group about how much aggression is "normal" in adult Jacob rambs. Rams older than yearlings. There was some recent butting in my neighborhood. I think we all know that it isn't smart to trust any ram not to butt... like never assuming the firearm is unloaded or the other driver won't make a mistake. That said- how many rams do you think would butt a person in their field given an easy shot at him or her? I am looking for something like all of them or 10% or half. Just a general conclusion. And I was thinking of the "normal" ram that has been bred, not exceptions like bottle babies that are overly familiar with people. My limited experience has been that the rams are much more aggressive when they think they should be with the ewes (e.g. when ewes are probably cycling) and less so when the ewes are out of sight and mind, and more so as they get older. Is that a pattern others see?
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From pcj at efn.org  Thu May 22 23:55:56 2008
From: pcj at efn.org (Penelope)
Date: Thu, 22 May 2008 20:55:56 -0700
Subject: [Jacob-list] ram aggression
In-Reply-To: <30983464.1211503042665.JavaMail.root@m04>
References: <30983464.1211503042665.JavaMail.root@m04>
Message-ID: <4836404C.7070706@efn.org>

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From beegal7 at yahoo.com  Fri May 23 04:27:13 2008
From: beegal7 at yahoo.com (Meg Steensland)
Date: Fri, 23 May 2008 01:27:13 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Jacob-list] ram aggression
In-Reply-To: <0a2901c8bc6d$036384d0$0a00a8c0@searlecenter>
Message-ID: <312442.70742.qm@web31507.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

I don't trust any ram once he gets past a year and can barely stand to keep them past two years. If we are taking one to a fair, I always arrange to have a big guy (man) show the ram.&nbsp; I don't know how to take down a ram as the other correspondent suggested, but I did witness my gelding take down a 4H guy this winter - pinned him to the ground and held him there til he must have said 'uncle' - this was in the barn and the gelding is smallish and the ram's horns curl out like the Joker in a deck of cards - when I walked in&nbsp;I hollered at the llama to get off him - but then saw waht he was about and said 'right on Ramon' and Ramon held him another 1/2 minute or so.&nbsp; Since then, I have not worried that much about that ram as he seems to respect the towering (llama and me) entities that are in his space.

--- On Thu, 5/22/08, Brenalan Farm &lt;info at brenalanfarm.com&gt; wrote:

From: Brenalan Farm &lt;info at brenalanfarm.com&gt;
Subject: [Jacob-list] ram aggression
To: jacob-list at jacobsheep.com
Date: Thursday, May 22, 2008, 8:36 PM





I'd be interested in hearing from the group about how much aggression is "normal" in adult Jacob rambs. Rams older than yearlings.&nbsp;There was some recent butting in my neighborhood. I think we all know that it isn't smart to trust any ram not to butt... like never assuming the firearm is unloaded or the other driver won't make a mistake. That said- how many rams do you think would butt a person in their field given an easy shot at him or her? I am looking for something like all of them or 10% or half. Just a general conclusion. And I was thinking of the "normal" ram that has been bred, not exceptions like bottle babies that are overly familiar with people. My limited experience has been that the rams are much more aggressive when they think they should be with the ewes (e.g. when ewes are probably cycling) and less so when the ewes are out of sight and mind, and more so as they get older.&nbsp;Is that a pattern others
 see?_______________________________________________
Jacob-list mailing list, sponsored by Swallow Lane Farm &amp; Fiberworks
Jacob-list at jacobsheep.com
http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/jacob-list
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From snielsen at orednet.org  Fri May 23 12:51:16 2008
From: snielsen at orednet.org (snielsen at orednet.org)
Date: Fri, 23 May 2008 09:51:16 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Jacob-list] ram aggression
In-Reply-To: <312442.70742.qm@web31507.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <0a2901c8bc6d$036384d0$0a00a8c0@searlecenter>
	<312442.70742.qm@web31507.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <57140.198.177.27.33.1211561476.squirrel@shemp.dialoregon.net>

On Fri, May 23, 2008 1:27 am, Meg Steensland said:
> ...I don't know how to take down
> a ram as the other correspondent suggested, ...

Ha. I don't either, but I can tell you a story. One day I was careless,
crossing the paddock with a bucket in my hand and the ram in with the
ewes. This was our first ram, and he was so sweet, and he was about to
teach me a lesson. I had become accustomed to his good nature, and was
just lollying along like a dope. I heard hoofbeats behind me, and turned
to see him on his way, head down, top horns aimed right right at me, and
the distance closing fast. I remember thinking, "If I take his head, he's
going to kill me." So I stood there. Somehow I actually just stood there.
When he arrived, I stepped to the side and grabbed him by his fleece. The
next thing I remember, Big John was flat on the ground with his little
hooves still galloping, and I was standing over him with my heart beating.
He got up and went off to eat hay. It's quite astonishing to know that you
can sometimes do what you have to do, even though you know you can't.

Susan
-- 
See our farm blog at http://skepweaver.wordpress.com/
--
Peace also takes courage.


From Jacobflock at aol.com  Fri May 23 21:28:57 2008
From: Jacobflock at aol.com (Jacobflock at aol.com)
Date: Fri, 23 May 2008 21:28:57 EDT
Subject: [Jacob-list] ram aggression
Message-ID: <ca3.3188e443.3568c959@aol.com>

In a message dated 5/22/2008 7:36:58 PM Central Daylight Time, 
info at brenalanfarm.com writes:

> I'd be interested in hearing from the group about how much aggression is 
> "normal" in adult Jacob rambs. Rams older than yearlings. There was some recent 
> butting in my neighborhood. I think we all know that it isn't smart to trust 
> any ram not to butt... like never assuming the firearm is unloaded or the 
> other driver won't make a mistake. 


That said- how many rams do you think would butt a person in their field 
given an 
> easy shot at him or her? 

We have kept 15-20 rams over the years; down to a dozen now.  I go into a 
four acre paddock where they are kept together on a rather regular basis but I 
carry a spray bottle of straight vinegar as a weapon.  A strong, stream spray is 
sprayed at the nose and face of any ram that gets within about four feet and 
I continue to spray the Aggressor until it turns and goes away.  

Ram behavior is "somewhat predictable" within the ram flock.  The aggressor 
is generally transferring the normal behavior of trying to move up the social 
rank.  The "top ram" will defend himself but does not initiate butting 
behavior.  Butting is a move up the ladder behavior.  I generally have to watch two 
rams in particular but keep my eyes open for any sign of aggression.  Ram lambs 
are introduced to the ram flock after weaning; they know their place 
immediately; or learn quickly.  We have never kept a bottle baby ram.

I am looking for something like all of them or 10% or half. Just a general 
> conclusion. And I was thinking of the "normal" ram that has been bred, not 
> exceptions like bottle babies that are overly familiar with people. My 
> limited experience has been that the rams are much more aggressive when they think 
> they should be with the ewes (e.g. when ewes are probably cycling) and less 
> so when the ewes are out of sight and mind, and more so as they get older. Is 
> that a pattern others see

Rams are agressive in any situation wheere it appears that their immediatye 
drive for satisfaction is thwarted or threatened by a "top" banana; feeding is 
an especially tense situation and can last all year ... the presence of ewes 
is not an excited drive for much of the year.  The ewe doesn't cycle until the 
solstice and the ambient air temp for the ram generally has to drop to abhout 
70.  In TX the breeding season is relatively short and rams and ewes here are 
across double fenced pastures but can easily see and "communicate".

There is an excellent book on ram behavior by Geist that I would recommend.

Fred Horak
St. Jude's Farm
1165 E. Lucas Rd.
Lucas, TX 75002





**************
Get trade secrets for amazing burgers. Watch "Cooking with 
Tyler Florence" on AOL Food.
      (http://food.aol.com/tyler-florence?video=4&amp;
?NCID=aolfod00030000000002)
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From info at brenalanfarm.com  Fri May 23 22:41:56 2008
From: info at brenalanfarm.com (Brenalan Farm)
Date: Fri, 23 May 2008 19:41:56 -0700
Subject: [Jacob-list] ram aggression
Message-ID: <01cd01c8bd47$bb6a1b40$0a00a8c0@searlecenter>

My thanks to everyone who responded! I am trying to help friends who had a butting problem, and am sharing the different points of view. The responses have shifted my perspective some too- I wasn't inclined to trust a ram, but even less so now. I guess I had gotten the sense early on that some just didn't have much butting in them... but I am not one to believe the rifle is unloaded either. And my limited personal experience has been that age seems to bring increased butting.

Brenda
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From Hobsickle at aol.com  Sat May 24 07:12:59 2008
From: Hobsickle at aol.com (Hobsickle at aol.com)
Date: Sat, 24 May 2008 07:12:59 EDT
Subject: [Jacob-list] Dream Sheep
Message-ID: <c23.39b1be5c.3569523b@aol.com>

Am I the only one or do any of the rest of you have an image  tucked away in 
the back of you mind of that "perfect lamb" that you'd  love to add to your 
flock?  Not the ideal Jacob in a general  sense, mind you, but the perfect 
addition to your breeding program at this  point in time.
 
Don't know if anyone might care about my daydreams, but here's my current  
hypothetical perfect lamb:
 
-lilac
-medium sized parents
-no (or very little) freckling or greying in parents
-excellent wool
-reasonable horns
-(and, at $4.20 a gallon gasoline, not too far from home)
 
OK, maybe that IS the ideal Jacob--except maybe for the lilac and gas  
parts--but maybe that's just in my mind too.
 
-Dan



**************Get trade secrets for amazing burgers. Watch "Cooking with 
Tyler Florence" on AOL Food.      
(http://food.aol.com/tyler-florence?video=4&?NCID=aolfod00030000000002)
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From Kelley_Rambo at antiochne.edu  Sat May 24 13:12:42 2008
From: Kelley_Rambo at antiochne.edu (Kelley Rambo)
Date: Sat, 24 May 2008 13:12:42 -0400
Subject: [Jacob-list] ram aggression
In-Reply-To: <mailman.7.1211645715.23114.jacob-list@jacobsheep.com>
References: <mailman.7.1211645715.23114.jacob-list@jacobsheep.com>
Message-ID: <fc.00757e2a04da67633b9aca0074ff4327.4da6aa3@antiochne.edu>

I have about 50 rams, they're all quite nice.  They frankly like kisses
and hugs, most of them.  I find that most of their poor behavior occurs
around ages 2-3, just like any adolescent.  If they get beyond that age
without developing any really bad habits, they're fine.  They don't do
well, for the most part, if they are kept alone.  They are social animals.
 They also do better if the girls are near by, keeps them calm.  I think
breeding has something to do with - my sheep have always been gentle and
calm - many people have expressed surprise at how calm they are.  I
discourage headbutting, even with each other.  I don't like fixing
boo-boos if they can be avoided.  I use "no" with my sheep, I might tie
them (i.e. with a lead rope and halter to a post somewhere separate, or I
hold them (I love horns, they're so useful) next to me for a few minutes
until they calm down.  Massage and back scratching seems to help a bit
sometimes.  Everyone has a name and I use the names so they often know who
I'm talking to.
  I have ram, Skye, who when he was about 2, I could yell "Skye, no!"
across a field and he would stop what he was doing (butting another sheep
likely) and look at me.  He has huge horns and lets me pull wads of ear
wax out of his ears every once in a while (he has tiny ears and lots of
wax for some reason).  Out of 50, there are only 2 that may bonk me, but
none of that running and butting stuff ever goes on.  And if Dusty or
Banana-bell (got the sex wrong before I named him and he seemed used to
the previous name of Annabelle) bonk, it's once, only me, never strangers
(thus far), and because I'm petting someone else instead of them.  As it
would happen, in the course of writing this, James and Edward started
banging heads, so I had to go out and get them to stop.  James is now
eating and Edward is lying down.  I'm not afraid of my animals and teach
them to be gentle with me and each other, just as I would a child.  As
with children, I have found that if the behavior is accepted as normal,
they will do it, 
just as head butting and butting in general is accepted as normal for
rams.  It's not normal or acceptable at my house.  It's just me and the
animals and I can't get injured, so they have to help with that.  I'm also
not stupid with my animals.  I know that they are strong and have very
powerful heads and necks.  I watch my head and eyes especially when I'm
around them, but it doesn't prevent me from cuddling with them.  I have 3
bottle ram lambs and they are probably the most docile of the bunch.  I
also have an older ram who goes for walks with me (without halter or lead
rope).  He's always been a very gentle soul.  So, different strokes for
different folks.  Say what you will about rams, but if I absolutely had to
choose between my rams and ewes, I might just pick my boys.  They're much
cuddlier than the girls as a general rule.
Best,
Kelley

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From patchworkfibers at alltel.net  Sat May 24 19:10:32 2008
From: patchworkfibers at alltel.net (Linda)
Date: Sat, 24 May 2008 19:10:32 -0400
Subject: [Jacob-list] Dream Sheep
In-Reply-To: <c23.39b1be5c.3569523b@aol.com>
Message-ID: <2008524191032.504908@patchwor-efob1t>

I like the way you differentiated between "ideal Jacob in a general sense" and "the perfect addition to your breeding program at this point in time."  And that you didn't mention markings. Many people seem to focus on markings first and then check out the rest.  My dream addition to my flock varies from year to year, as my flock is not static.  I buy rams to suit my ewes, as they really are the heart of my flock. 

Let's see:

- primitive type
- excellent 4 horns in lamb and both parents and in paternal grandam (good horns seem to be the most elusive trait. Fleece and markings can be improved in one or two generations)
- no freckling
- good muzzle patch - at this point in time, I need some muzzle markings
- excellent wool
- offspring of a good mother
- it doesn't hurt if they like me :-)

Linda
if I add lilac, you'd have Oreo







 
www.patchworkfibers.com
Registered Jacob Sheep, Angora Rabbits, Handspun Yarn

> Am I the only one or do any of the rest of you have an image tucked
> away in the back of you mind of that "perfect lamb" that you'd love
> to add to your flock?  Not the ideal Jacob in a general sense, mind
> you, but the perfect addition to your breeding program at this
> point in time.
>
> Don't know if anyone might care about my daydreams, but here's my
> current hypothetical perfect lamb:
>
> -lilac
> -medium sized parents
> -no (or very little) freckling or greying in parents -excellent
> wool -reasonable horns
> -(and, at $4.20 a gallon gasoline, not too far from home)
>
> OK, maybe that IS the ideal Jacob--except maybe for the lilac and
> gas parts--but maybe that's just in my mind too.
>
> -Dan
>
>
> Get trade secrets for amazing burgers. Watch "Cooking with Tyler
> Florence" on AOL Food.
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From rlynde at onramp113.org  Sat May 24 19:53:26 2008
From: rlynde at onramp113.org (Robin Lynde)
Date: Sat, 24 May 2008 16:53:26 -0700
Subject: [Jacob-list] AGM deadline
Message-ID: <000c01c8bdf9$5bb20980$6401a8c0@your4dacd0ea75>

Hi Jacob Breeders,
We sent out AGM registration booklets to all JSBA members this week. A big OOPS! We forgot the registration deadline on the form. It's July 1. If you are not a member and want to consider coming to AGM you can go to www.jsba.org and click on AGM to view the program info. The registration form will be available on-line in a day or two. We have a few extra copies of the reg. booklet if you want us to mail you one. Just e-mail me with your address.
Robin Lynde
Meridian Jacobs
Vacaville, CA 
www.meridianjacobs.com 
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From patchworkfibers at alltel.net  Sun May 25 21:00:54 2008
From: patchworkfibers at alltel.net (Linda)
Date: Sun, 25 May 2008 21:00:54 -0400
Subject: [Jacob-list] quintuplets
Message-ID: <200852521054.224653@patchwor-efob1t>

This is about goats, not sheep, but I thought someone might be able to satisfy my curiosity.  How unusual are quintuplets in goats? In our county, two dairy goat breeders each had quintuplets born. One set to a Saanan and one set to a Nubian.  I had thought that quints were fairly rare in goats and was surprised to hear of two sets born within 20 miles.

Linda
 
www.patchworkfibers.com
Registered Jacob Sheep, Angora Rabbits, Handspun Yarn
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From schmick54 at aol.com  Sun May 25 23:06:49 2008
From: schmick54 at aol.com (schmick54 at aol.com)
Date: Sun, 25 May 2008 23:06:49 -0400
Subject: [Jacob-list] quintuplets
In-Reply-To: <200852521054.224653@patchwor-efob1t>
References: <200852521054.224653@patchwor-efob1t>
Message-ID: <8CA8CF4ACA29A05-10A0-AA0@WEBMAIL-MB05.sysops.aol.com>


 My friend Cynthia has Nubians and yes, quints were born one year. She kept going to the barn hour after hour and they kept coming !! She was lucky to take a photo of all five standing together. 

Two sets within 20 miles does sound astounding !

Mick


 


 

-----Original Message-----
From: Linda <patchworkfibers at alltel.net>
To: jacob-list at jacobsheep.com
Sent: Sun, 25 May 2008 7:00 pm
Subject: [Jacob-list] quintuplets












This is about goats, not sheep, but I thought someone might be able to satisfy my curiosity. ?How unusual are quintuplets in goats? In our county, two dairy goat breeders each had quintuplets born. One set to a Saanan and one set to a Nubian. ?I had thought that quints were fairly rare in goats and was surprised to hear of two sets born within 20 miles.


?


Linda
?


www.patchworkfibers.com


Registered Jacob Sheep, Angora Rabbits, Handspun Yarn


 





_______________________________________________
Jacob-list mailing list, sponsored by Swallow Lane Farm & Fiberworks
Jacob-list at jacobsheep.com
http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/jacob-list



 

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From Gotothewhip at aol.com  Mon May 26 01:28:18 2008
From: Gotothewhip at aol.com (Gotothewhip at aol.com)
Date: Mon, 26 May 2008 01:28:18 EDT
Subject: [Jacob-list] When Your sheep is smarter than you are!
Message-ID: <c25.37ea098b.356ba472@aol.com>

Sigh, I am once again outwitted.. i have one ewe, she is a contortionist.  
She has been breaking into the creep feeder on a regular basis... She gets in,  
and then, cant figure out how to get out.. perhaps its because she has gorged  
herself on feed and cant do it! LOL
 
So, On Friday, I decided to fix her up.. I outfitted her with a nice wide  
band nylon dog collar, and attached a 1.5 (empty) gas can.... She was not real  
happy with her new "fashion accessory" but didn't have much choice.
 
Tonight, I went in the barn... there sets Eve, in the creep feeder, Gas can  
and all....LOL  
 
Im not sure how she did it... And think she may have jumped in.....
 
I need to get a picture.. Maybe I will wait until I hang a 5 gallon can  
around her neck!
 
Jennifer Tucker
Moose Mtn Ranch
 
_www.MooseMtnRanch.com_ (http://www.MooseMtnRanch.com) 
 
 



**************Get trade secrets for amazing burgers. Watch "Cooking with 
Tyler Florence" on AOL Food.      
(http://food.aol.com/tyler-florence?video=4&?NCID=aolfod00030000000002)
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From pcj at efn.org  Mon May 26 10:27:27 2008
From: pcj at efn.org (Penelope)
Date: Mon, 26 May 2008 07:27:27 -0700
Subject: [Jacob-list] When Your sheep is smarter than you are!
In-Reply-To: <20791138.1211779830818.JavaMail.root@m04>
References: <20791138.1211779830818.JavaMail.root@m04>
Message-ID: <483AC8CF.8080204@efn.org>

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From jwatson at centex.net  Mon May 26 13:00:20 2008
From: jwatson at centex.net (Judy Watson)
Date: Mon, 26 May 2008 12:00:20 -0500
Subject: [Jacob-list] Quints in goats
Message-ID: <000701c8bf51$fb662250$0301a8c0@JCJ>

Quints are fairly rare, but not unheard of.  I have lot's of triplets,
too many quads but have only had one set of quints (that I know of).
Mills County is a major goat producing area and you don't hear of quints
but about every few years.

=================================================
Judy Watson                                        325-938-5403 hm.
Rt. 2 Box 287                                      325-451-0209 cell
330 CR 427
Goldthwaite, TX  76844

 
DH Land Company                        www.DHLandCompany.com
I-Diamond-I Ranch                         www.IDiamondI.com
=================================================================




From patchworkfibers at alltel.net  Mon May 26 18:57:27 2008
From: patchworkfibers at alltel.net (Linda)
Date: Mon, 26 May 2008 18:57:27 -0400
Subject: [Jacob-list] Quints in goats
In-Reply-To: <000701c8bf51$fb662250$0301a8c0@JCJ>
Message-ID: <2008526185727.150760@patchwor-efob1t>

Thanks, everyone. I thought it was abit rare to have quints and was surprised to hear of two sets from two people I see often.  In neither case did all the kids live (two died in each) and in one case the doe died. One of my vets (yes! we now have two vets that will treat sheep after spending 8 years with nary a vet that would bother with sheep), is not comfortable with some of the additives in both livestock and human food.

I'm pretty happy with a healthy set of twins :-)

Linda
 
www.patchworkfibers.com
Registered Jacob Sheep, Angora Rabbits, Handspun Yarn


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From patchworkfibers at alltel.net  Mon May 26 19:22:55 2008
From: patchworkfibers at alltel.net (Linda)
Date: Mon, 26 May 2008 19:22:55 -0400
Subject: [Jacob-list] When Your sheep is smarter than you are!
In-Reply-To: <c25.37ea098b.356ba472@aol.com>
Message-ID: <2008526192255.502914@patchwor-efob1t>

Or she doesn't want to get out - she knows you'll be back to put in more feed LOL

Sheep can squeeze through the smallest spaces.  I have crept feed (creep feeded? creep fed?) at times. It's usually more trouble than it's worth for me. I've seen pregnant ewes that looked like they could hardly fit through a walk through gate suck it up and squeeze through the very tiny opening to the creep feeder.  I'd be nervous about hanging something around her neck if you think she is jumping.  She could get caught up and possibly hang herself.  Maybe try taping a piece of pvc to her horns so that she can't get her head through the creep gate. Tape it so that it is perpendicular to her top (or only, if she is two horned) horns.  I've done that a couple of times when I got fed up with lambs that just couldn't seem to keep from getting their heads stuck in the fence and for a really stupid Nubian doe.  I didn't disbud her because I like horns. She had this odd habit of challenging the rams through the fence and then getting her head stuck, so she would stand there screaming while the rams would butt her.  I used electric tape to attach the pvc.  If you are using this on a young sheep, it is necessary to check/change the tape often, as the horns are still growing and the tape can cut off blood flow. (we learn by our mistakes).

Linda
 
www.patchworkfibers.com
Registered Jacob Sheep, Angora Rabbits, Handspun Yarn

> Sigh, I am once again outwitted.. i have one ewe, she is a
> contortionist. She has been breaking into the creep feeder on a
> regular basis... She gets in, and then, cant figure out how to get
> out.. perhaps its because she has gorged herself on feed and cant
> do it! LOL
>
> So, On Friday, I decided to fix her up.. I outfitted her with a
> nice wide band nylon dog collar, and attached a 1.5 (empty) gas
> can.... She was not real happy with her new "fashion accessory" but
> didn't have much choice.
>
> Tonight, I went in the barn... there sets Eve, in the creep feeder,
> Gas can and all....LOL 
>
> Im not sure how she did it... And think she may have jumped in.....
>
> I need to get a picture.. Maybe I will wait until I hang a 5 gallon
> can around her neck!
>
> Jennifer Tucker
> Moose Mtn Ranch
>
> www.MooseMtnRanch.com
>
>
> Get trade secrets for amazing burgers. Watch "Cooking with Tyler
> Florence" on AOL Food.
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From patchworkfibers at alltel.net  Mon May 26 21:02:18 2008
From: patchworkfibers at alltel.net (Linda)
Date: Mon, 26 May 2008 21:02:18 -0400
Subject: [Jacob-list] ram aggression
In-Reply-To: <ca3.3188e443.3568c959@aol.com>
Message-ID: <200852621218.083541@patchwor-efob1t>

I've also found that a spray bottle is a much better determent to rams than any sort of big stick or attempt at physical dominance. These guys will spend hours butting trees - one hit on the head with a 2 x 4 doesn't make much of an impression.  They sure do hate a spray of vinegar, though.

Linda
 
www.patchworkfibers.com
Registered Jacob Sheep, Angora Rabbits, Handspun Yarn

>>
>
> We have kept 15-20 rams over the years; down to a dozen now.  I go
> into a four acre paddock where they are kept together on a rather
> regular basis but I carry a spray bottle of straight vinegar as a
> weapon.  A strong, stream spray is sprayed at the nose and face of
> any ram that gets within about four feet and I continue to spray
> the Aggressor until it turns and goes away. 
>

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From schmick54 at aol.com  Mon May 26 22:44:39 2008
From: schmick54 at aol.com (schmick54 at aol.com)
Date: Mon, 26 May 2008 22:44:39 -0400
Subject: [Jacob-list] Quints in goats
In-Reply-To: <2008526185727.150760@patchwor-efob1t>
Message-ID: <8CA8DBABE10ED0E-B1C-1BA2@webmail-nc20.sysops.aol.com>


 My friend Cynthia's quints all survived and grew up to become adults. 

Mick


 

-
----Original Message-----
From: Linda <patchworkfibers at alltel.net>
To: jacob-list at jacobsheep.com
Sent: Mon, 26 May 2008 4:57 pm
Subject: Re: [Jacob-list] Quints in goats












Thanks, everyone. I thought it was abit rare to have quints and was surprised to hear of two sets from two people I see often. ?In neither case did all the kids live (two died in each) and in one case the doe died. One of my vets (yes! we now have two vets that will treat sheep after spending 8 years with nary a vet that would bother with sheep), is not comfortable with some of the additives in both livestock and human food.


?


I'm pretty happy with a healthy set of twins :-)


?


Linda
?


www.patchworkfibers.com


Registered Jacob Sheep, Angora Rabbits, Handspun Yarn




?


 





_______________________________________________
Jacob-list mailing list, sponsored by Swallow Lane Farm & Fiberworks
Jacob-list at jacobsheep.com
My friend Cynthia's quints all livedhttp://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/jacob-list



 

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From schmick54 at aol.com  Mon May 26 22:50:00 2008
From: schmick54 at aol.com (schmick54 at aol.com)
Date: Mon, 26 May 2008 22:50:00 -0400
Subject: [Jacob-list] ram aggression
In-Reply-To: <200852621218.083541@patchwor-efob1t>
Message-ID: <8CA8DBB7D453338-B1C-1BD1@webmail-nc20.sysops.aol.com>


 One thing I learned as a new breeder years ago : Don't hit rams over the head: THEY LIKE IT !!!

Mick


 


 

-----Original Message-----
From: Linda <patchworkfibers at alltel.net>
To: Jacobflock at aol.com; info at brenalanfarm.com; jacob-list at jacobsheep.com
Sent: Mon, 26 May 2008 7:02 pm
Subject: Re: [Jacob-list] ram aggression












I've also found that a spray bottle is a much better determent to rams than any sort of big stick or attempt at physical dominance. These guys will spend hours butting trees - one hit on the head with a 2 x 4 doesn't make much of an impression. ?They sure do hate a spray of vinegar, though.


?


Linda
?


www.patchworkfibers.com


Registered Jacob Sheep, Angora Rabbits, Handspun Yarn




>>


>


> We have kept 15-20 rams over the years; down to a dozen now.? I go


> into a four acre paddock where they are kept together on a rather


> regular basis but I carry a spray bottle of straight vinegar as a


> weapon.? A strong, stream spray is sprayed at the nose and face of


> any ram that gets within about four feet and I continue to spray


> the Aggressor until it turns and goes away.?


>


?


 





_______________________________________________
Jacob-list mailing list, sponsored by Swallow Lane Farm & Fiberworks
Jacob-list at jacobsheep.com
One of the first things i learned as a new breeder: Don't hit a ram over the hewhttp://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/jacob-list



 

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From nlgrose at yadtel.net  Tue May 27 07:47:55 2008
From: nlgrose at yadtel.net (Neal and Louise Grose)
Date: Tue, 27 May 2008 07:47:55 -0400
Subject: [Jacob-list] ram aggression
References: <200852621218.083541@patchwor-efob1t>
Message-ID: <001c01c8bfef$86c05620$6402a8c0@HAL2>

"They sure do hate a spray of vinegar, though"

I am imagining myself getting the bottle pointed the wrong way while being charged by a ram and spraying myself.

Hitting a ram on the head may not do much as a determent; but, I have found that it is effective to carry a stout cane and swing up from the ground square onto their nose. Rams attack with their head down. Grabbing a horn and simply pulling their head up will often blunt aggression. Especially if you use said stout cane on their nose while holding their head up.

Neal
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Linda 
  To: Jacobflock at aol.com ; info at brenalanfarm.com ; jacob-list at jacobsheep.com 
  Sent: Monday, May 26, 2008 9:02 PM
  Subject: Re: [Jacob-list] ram aggression


  I've also found that a spray bottle is a much better determent to rams than any sort of big stick or attempt at physical dominance. These guys will spend hours butting trees - one hit on the head with a 2 x 4 doesn't make much of an impression.  They sure do hate a spray of vinegar, though.

  Linda
   
  www.patchworkfibers.com
  Registered Jacob Sheep, Angora Rabbits, Handspun Yarn


  >>
  >
  > We have kept 15-20 rams over the years; down to a dozen now.  I go
  > into a four acre paddock where they are kept together on a rather
  > regular basis but I carry a spray bottle of straight vinegar as a
  > weapon.  A strong, stream spray is sprayed at the nose and face of
  > any ram that gets within about four feet and I continue to spray
  > the Aggressor until it turns and goes away. 
  >



------------------------------------------------------------------------------


  _______________________________________________
  Jacob-list mailing list, sponsored by Swallow Lane Farm & Fiberworks
  Jacob-list at jacobsheep.com
  http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/jacob-list
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From wedohoney at sbcglobal.net  Tue May 27 14:11:09 2008
From: wedohoney at sbcglobal.net (JACI SIEHL)
Date: Tue, 27 May 2008 11:11:09 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Jacob-list] Shedding Jacob with no spots??????
Message-ID: <667831.16825.qm@web80603.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

My brother sent me this link - some poor unsuspecting person is going to be taked to the cleaners unless they are just looking for meat!

  
  portland craigslist > clackamas co > farm & garden   please flag with care:

miscategorized 
prohibited 
spam/overpost 
best of craigslist 
  Avoid scams and fraud by dealing locally! Beware any deal involving Western Union, Moneygram, wire transfer, cashier check, money order, shipping, escrow, or any promise of transaction protection/certification/guarantee. More info
  Rare Jacob 4 horned sheep - $65 (Woodburn)  
---------------------------------
  Reply to: sale-695614519 at craigslist.org
Date: 2008-05-26, 10:49AM PDT


I have 3 Rams and 8 Ewes for sale, these are one of the oldest breeds. They are young breeding stock, from twins, all Rams have 4 horns, Ewes are 4 horns to 2 horns (by 4 horned Rams). Very hardy, strong and easy keepers, no tail docking, great brush eaters, easy on fences. They have excellent wool or will shed thier wool if not sheared. Will trade for hay. $65 each or buy three get fourth free.                 

    
   Location: Woodburn   
   it's NOT ok to contact this poster with services or other commercial interests

PostingID: 695614519




 
  Jack and Jaci
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From patchworkfibers at alltel.net  Tue May 27 15:45:25 2008
From: patchworkfibers at alltel.net (Linda)
Date: Tue, 27 May 2008 15:45:25 -0400
Subject: [Jacob-list] ram aggression
In-Reply-To: <001c01c8bfef$86c05620$6402a8c0@HAL2>
Message-ID: <2008527154525.704553@patchwor-efob1t>

Spraying yourself with the vinegar isn't quite as bad as tripping over your cane! The rams are tickled that you submitted so quickly.

Linda
 
www.patchworkfibers.com
Registered Jacob Sheep, Angora Rabbits, Handspun Yarn

> "They sure do hate a spray of vinegar, though"
>
> I am imagining myself getting the bottle pointed the wrong way
> while being charged by a ram and spraying myself.
>
> Hitting a ram on the head may not do much as a determent; but, I
> have found that it is effective to carry a stout cane and swing up
> from the ground square onto their nose. Rams attack with their head
> down. Grabbing a horn and simply pulling their head up will often
> blunt aggression. Especially if you use said stout cane on their
> nose while holding their head up.
>
> Neal

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From pcj at efn.org  Tue May 27 22:28:10 2008
From: pcj at efn.org (Penelope)
Date: Tue, 27 May 2008 19:28:10 -0700
Subject: [Jacob-list] Shedding Jacob with no spots??????
In-Reply-To: <22939763.1211912093508.JavaMail.root@m04>
References: <22939763.1211912093508.JavaMail.root@m04>
Message-ID: <483CC33A.6010506@efn.org>

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From beegal7 at yahoo.com  Tue May 27 22:52:06 2008
From: beegal7 at yahoo.com (Meg Steensland)
Date: Tue, 27 May 2008 19:52:06 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Jacob-list] Shedding Jacob with no spots??????
In-Reply-To: <483CC33A.6010506@efn.org>
Message-ID: <254391.32366.qm@web31508.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Shedding wool from Jacobs - yes, I got some from a Jamestown OH breeder that tended to shed if not shorn (they missed getting sheared that year).&nbsp; Jacobs vs Churros - yes - have both (just got Churros in Nov)&nbsp; All the ewes I have (9) are polled - OK by the breed std.&nbsp; All three of thae adult rams I have seen are 2H.&nbsp; I have 5 2008 lambs and it is too early to tell polled/horned.&nbsp; There are other Churro breeders also on this list - like Ingrid and Karen (I think) as well as Nikyle Begay.

--- On Tue, 5/27/08, Penelope &lt;pcj at efn.org&gt; wrote:

From: Penelope &lt;pcj at efn.org&gt;
Subject: Re: [Jacob-list] Shedding Jacob with no spots??????
To: jacob-list at jacobsheep.com
Date: Tuesday, May 27, 2008, 10:28 PM


JACI SIEHL wrote: 
My brother sent me this link - some poor unsuspecting person is going to be taked to the cleaners unless they are just looking for meat!

I forwarded it on to one of my neighbors because I'm not sure if she's still on the list, she stopped keeping Jacob Sheep.&nbsp; Any chance those are Navajo Churros?&nbsp; There were some down here (Umpqua valley&nbsp; way south of where they are in Oregon) that I thought for years were Jacob Sheep with really rotten confirmation.&nbsp; Bad spotting, bad horns, no horns for some ewes -- they turned out to be Churros with different breed standards.&nbsp; Not my sheep, but people like them.



-- 
-- 
penelope jacob
pcj at efn.org
www.dreamsandbones.net/blog

"Perhaps the biggest change will come
When we don't have to change much at all.
When maniacs holler "grow, grow, grow"
We can choose to be small.
The key word may be "little,"
We only have to change a little bit.
Eat a little food, drink a little drink,
. . . "&nbsp; 
Pete Seeger, from Arrange and Rearrange
&nbsp; 
_______________________________________________
Jacob-list mailing list, sponsored by Swallow Lane Farm &amp; Fiberworks
Jacob-list at jacobsheep.com
http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/jacob-list
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From schmick54 at aol.com  Tue May 27 23:03:20 2008
From: schmick54 at aol.com (schmick54 at aol.com)
Date: Tue, 27 May 2008 23:03:20 -0400
Subject: [Jacob-list] Shedding Jacob with no spots??????
In-Reply-To: <667831.16825.qm@web80603.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <667831.16825.qm@web80603.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <8CA8E86849FDB43-1754-407A@webmail-db14.sysops.aol.com>

EEEPS !!!!


Mick


-----Original Message-----
From: JACI SIEHL <wedohoney at sbcglobal.net>
To: jacob-list at jacobsheep.com
Sent: Tue, 27 May 2008 12:11 pm
Subject: [Jacob-list] Shedding Jacob with no spots??????


My brother sent me this link - some poor unsuspecting person is going to be taked to the cleaners unless they are just looking for meat!




portland craigslist > clackamas co > farm & garden 
please flag with care:

miscategorized 
prohibited 
spam/overpost 
best of craigslist 

Avoid scams and fraud by dealing locally! Beware any deal involving Western Union, Moneygram, wire transfer, cashier check, money order, shipping, escrow, or any promise of transaction protection/certification/guarantee. More info

Rare Jacob 4 horned sheep - $65 (Woodburn)
Reply to: sale-695614519 at craigslist.org
Date: 2008-05-26, 10:49AM PDT


I have 3 Rams and 8 Ewes for sale, these are one of the oldest breeds. They are young breeding stock, from twins, all Rams have 4 horns, Ewes are 4 horns to 2 horns (by 4 horned Rams). Very hardy, strong and easy keepers, no tail docking, great brush eaters, easy on fences. They have excellent wool or will shed thier wool if not sheared. Will trade for hay. $65 each or buy three get fourth free. 



















Location: Woodburn 

it's NOT ok to contact this poster with services or other commercial interests


PostingID: 695614519






?

Jack and Jaci



_______________________________________________
Jacob-list mailing list, sponsored by Swallow Lane Farm & Fiberworks
Jacob-list at jacobsheep.com
http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/jacob-list

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From Gotothewhip at aol.com  Wed May 28 11:08:39 2008
From: Gotothewhip at aol.com (Gotothewhip at aol.com)
Date: Wed, 28 May 2008 11:08:39 EDT
Subject: [Jacob-list] AGM
Message-ID: <c4b.2b3ccf1d.356ecf77@aol.com>

Hubby and I are discussing flying to AGM so we can at least get a bit more  
educated on our breed.  
 
I know in the past, there were a few posts talking about sheep  transport.... 
I didn't look deep enough into it, but was curious if anyone would  be going 
home from AGM thru Colorado, so if we find something we cant live  without, it 
can come home?
 
On a additional note, I am looking into flight options as another breeder  
told me about sending one to the east coast that way....
 
Anyone have any advice or options here?
 
Jennifer Tucker
Moose Mtn Ranch
Bennett, CO
 
_www.MooseMtnRanch.com_ (http://www.MooseMtnRanch.com) 
 



**************Get trade secrets for amazing burgers. Watch "Cooking with 
Tyler Florence" on AOL Food.      
(http://food.aol.com/tyler-florence?video=4&?NCID=aolfod00030000000002)
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From patchworkfibers at alltel.net  Wed May 28 16:50:00 2008
From: patchworkfibers at alltel.net (Linda)
Date: Wed, 28 May 2008 16:50:00 -0400
Subject: [Jacob-list] AGM
In-Reply-To: <c4b.2b3ccf1d.356ecf77@aol.com>
Message-ID: <200852816500.771390@patchwor-efob1t>

My Ruffles flew from Denver to Asheville as a lamb. She missed her connection in Atlanta (off to buy a Starbucks, I guess) and arrived a few hours late. We ended up having to spend the night in Asheville, so it was a very long trip for her - I think something like 27 hours from Ft. Collins to Tiger.  But, she was fine and totally unfazed by everything.  

Linda
 
www.patchworkfibers.com
Registered Jacob Sheep, Angora Rabbits, Handspun Yarn

> Hubby and I are discussing flying to AGM so we can at least get a
> bit more educated on our breed. 
>
> I know in the past, there were a few posts talking about sheep
> transport.... I didn't look deep enough into it, but was curious if
> anyone would be going home from AGM thru Colorado, so if we find
> something we cant live without, it can come home?
>
> On a additional note, I am looking into flight options as another
> breeder told me about sending one to the east coast that way....
>
> Anyone have any advice or options here?
>
> Jennifer Tucker
> Moose Mtn Ranch
> Bennett, CO
>
> www.MooseMtnRanch.com

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From mjphirschi at dplanet.ch  Sat May 31 09:30:19 2008
From: mjphirschi at dplanet.ch (Hirschi Monika)
Date: Sat, 31 May 2008 15:30:19 +0200
Subject: [Jacob-list] eye split
Message-ID: <03DAF79291234C4C8318F27358D6F702@Hirschi>

Last December I imported a 4h ram and let him run with a 2h Jacob ewe which is out of at least 2 generations of 2horns. Also he bred an older black ewe I got before having Jacobs. She has no horns and sure no Jacobs blood. The ram lamb she got shows a good eye and one with a split. The Jacob ewe gave birth to a 4h ram lamb two days ago.He also has a good eye and one with a split. I am not able to tell you if it is Type 2 or more. My ram has perfect eyes. Can you tell me if I have consider this ram like one which I should take out of my breeding program? He only had 2 ram lambs from two ewes, so not really many lambs yet. Can it be just bad luck? He was a new bloodline. 

I have a 4h ewe, which had a 2horn ram lamb. This 2h ram would fit to most of my ewes, but not to his mother. I am thinking about breeding
the 4h ram to the 4h ewe. Is it to much risk? 

Another question: Do you see split eyes more in ram lambs than it ewe lambs? I got three  4h ewe lambs from other rams and none has a problem with the eyes.

Thanks for your reply
Monika
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