From schmick54 at aol.com Fri Aug 1 00:55:20 2008 From: schmick54 at aol.com (schmick54 at aol.com) Date: Fri, 01 Aug 2008 00:55:20 -0400 Subject: [Jacob-list] Fwd: showing jacob sheep In-Reply-To: <001d01c8f304$8706fce0$2c434d0c@ksh> References: <001d01c8f304$8706fce0$2c434d0c@ksh> Message-ID: <8CAC1A9EEFFFDF3-2B4-2858@webmail-nc18.sysops.aol.com> Karen and her daughters are brand new JSBA members. They could use a little help regarding shearing and showing sheep. Please help them out. -----Original Message----- From: Karen Herriotts To: schmick54 at aol.com Sent: Thu, 31 Jul 2008 5:56 am Subject: showing jacob sheep ??????????? Hi, I talked with you yesterday about our Jacob sheep.? You called about my kid?s registration?.Happy Hats.? Your hats are great.? When you show a Jacob sheep in a hand spinner?s class I am assuming you don?t shear them like our breading market animals.? What I read is you shear in early spring, wash them a few days before and put covers on them.? This is new for us and we would like to do it right.? The sheep were born in early spring.? Have any suggestions for beginners? ? Thanks, Karen Herriotts 301-854-6537 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From gotothewhip at aol.com Fri Aug 1 09:43:29 2008 From: gotothewhip at aol.com (gotothewhip at aol.com) Date: Fri, 01 Aug 2008 09:43:29 -0400 Subject: [Jacob-list] Fwd: showing jacob sheep In-Reply-To: <8CAC1A9EEFFFDF3-2B4-2858@webmail-nc18.sysops.aol.com> References: <001d01c8f304$8706fce0$2c434d0c@ksh> <8CAC1A9EEFFFDF3-2B4-2858@webmail-nc18.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <8CAC1F3B74C96AD-6FC-704@webmail-df01.sysops.aol.com> Hi Karen, I would be HAPPY to help you with showing... We show quite a few.... I guess that is the understatement of the year!? For the most part, with very few exceptions, you show in a full fleece. and .. you dont do mych to them!? If your sheep are coated.. all you need to do it pick out the neck area and any sray pieces of hay... If not coated.. I have found that vaccuming them out a few days beforehand is the best method.. pick out the big stuf... try to be gentle when you vaccum as not to turn your sheep into a frizz ball.... but suck out the offending hay and dirt.? A shop vac is useable for this.. we have a livestock vaccum/blower that we like.. as we can blow out dirt too! I do wash my sheep's faces with a wet washcloth .... and legs get wiped off too....trim up the feet.. and at a big show, I put a little SHow Sheen (a horse product) on the horns to make them shine.. otherwise a good wipedown works!?? Dont forget to trim the hooves as far in advance as possible.. a sheep with sloppy toes does not walk well.. and one with sore feet from too close a trim will not do well either! Unlike market or most other sheep shows, you will likely show in a halter... We use plain colored rope ones.. sometimes the nylon ones... but we usually have more than 20 animals at the show.. so for the most part,.. we throw one on that fits and get in the ring! On a haonspinning class.. you do not fit the sheep at all.. you ca n trim off manure tags, and a bleached tip.. but they dont want you fitting them into litte puffballs like wool sheep or breeding animals.Take a look at my site.. many of the photos are taken at a show... the shep are cleaned up and hauled in the ring.? www.MooseMtnRanch.com My biggest advice.. is to REALLY get them halter broken.having a crazy leaping 4 horn sheep does noting to encorage folks to like the breed... but having a nice halter broke sheep invites folks to ask questions and talk to you. I had these handy.. this is for a Handspinning class.. I have highlighted the important stuff.... These rules may not necessarily apply.. but are a good base for a handspinning natural colored show. SUPERINTENDENTS: Dana Ruehlman, DVM; e-mail: druehlman@ gmail.com and Curtis Chong; e-mail:cchong at boulderassociates.com Dana Ruehlman, DVM; e-mail: druehlman@ gmail.com and Curtis Chong; e-mail:cchong at boulderassociates.com TIMES: In-place - 6 p.m. Friday, June 13 - 6 p.m. Friday, June 13 Release - 4 p.m. Sunday, June 15 - 4 p.m. Sunday, June 15 Natural Colored Sheep Show - 9 a.m. Saturday, June 14 - 9 a.m. Saturday, June 14 Classic Breeds Sheep Show - 2 p.m. Saturday, June 14 - 2 p.m. Saturday, June 14 White Sheep Show - 10 a.m. Sunday, June 14 - 10 a.m. Sunday, June 14 Bluefaced Leister National Show - 12:30 p.m. Sunday, June 15 - 12:30 p.m. Sunday, June 15 REGISTRATION DEADLINE: Postmarked by May 21, 2008. Late fees of $7 per head if registration is postmarked between May 22, 2008 and May 31, 2008. NO registrations accepted after May 31, 2008. : Postmarked by May 21, 2008. Late fees of $7 per head if registration is postmarked between May 22, 2008 and May 31, 2008. NO registrations accepted after May 31, 2008. NO registrations accepted after May 31, 2008. JUDGE: Keith Padgett These sheep are raised primarily for the handspinning market and will be judged under the rules of the National Colored Wool Growers Association Judge?s Guide, with exceptions as noted in the White Handspinning Sheep Division Rules (copy available upon request). All sheep will be judged 60 percent on wool and 40 percent on conformation. Excessive vegetable contamination will be penalized. Physical defects will be severely penalized. Refer to the livestock section in the back of this book for health regulations, stalls and bedding information. Keith Padgett These sheep are raised primarily for the handspinning market and will be judged under the rules of the National Colored Wool Growers Association Judge?s Guide, with exceptions as noted in the White Handspinning Sheep Division Rules (copy available upon request). All sheep will be judged 60 percent on wool and 40 percent on conformation. Excessive vegetable contamination will be penalized. Physical defects will be severely penalized. Refer to the livestock section in the back of this book for health regulations, stalls and bedding information. National Colored Wool Growers Association Judge?s Guide, with exceptions as noted in the White Handspinning Sheep Division Rules (copy available upon request). All sheep will be judged 60 percent on wool and 40 percent on conformation. Excessive vegetable contamination will be penalized. Physical defects will be severely penalized. Refer to the livestock section in the back of this book for health regulations, stalls and bedding information. , with exceptions as noted in the White Handspinning Sheep Division Rules (copy available upon request). All sheep will be judged 60 percent on wool and 40 percent on conformation. Excessive vegetable contamination will be penalized. Physical defects will be severely penalized. Refer to the livestock section in the back of this book for health regulations, stalls and bedding information. (copy available upon request). All sheep will be judged 60 percent on wool and 40 percent on conformation. Excessive vegetable contamination will be penalized. Physical defects will be severely penalized. Refer to the livestock section in the back of this book for health regulations, stalls and bedding information. SHEEP PREPARATION NOTES: Sheep may be trimmed, tipped, or fuzzed-off, but not blocked. Bellies, heads, lower legs, and dock area may have wool of any length preferred by the exhibitor, but wool must not be trimmed or blocked to unequal lengths on chest, back, shoulders, sides or britch area. Wool must be free of excessive vegetable contamination, manure, paint, permanent stains, wool rot, breaks or tenderness, and cutting. These problems will be penalized according to severity. Sheep may be trimmed, tipped, or fuzzed-off, but not blocked. Bellies, heads, lower legs, and dock area may have wool of any length preferred by the exhibitor, but wool must not be trimmed or blocked to unequal lengths on chest, back, shoulders, sides or britch area. Wool must be free of excessive vegetable contamination, manure, paint, permanent stains, wool rot, breaks or tenderness, and cutting. These problems will be penalized according to severity. The registration form must be signed or it will be returned to you. All sheep must have premise identifi cation ear tags that comply with the National Scrapie Eradication Program, ATTACHED TO THE ANIMAL. Call 866-USDA-TAG (866-873-2824) for help. In Colorado call the USDA-APHIS Area Veterinary Services at 303-231-5385 for tags. fi cation ear tags that comply with the National Scrapie Eradication Program, ATTACHED TO THE ANIMAL. Call 866-USDA-TAG (866-873-2824) for help. In Colorado call the USDA-APHIS Area Veterinary Services at 303-231-5385 for tags. . Call 866-USDA-TAG (866-873-2824) for help. In Colorado call the USDA-APHIS Area Veterinary Services at 303-231-5385 for tags. NOTE: Due to the time of year and geographical location, sheep may be shown with a minimum of 1/2? of relaxed staple (the 2? minimum staple requirement is waived for the Wool Market Show only). Due to the time of year and geographical location, sheep may be shown with a minimum of 1/2? of relaxed staple (the 2? min imum staple requirement is waived for the Wool Market Show only). SHOW RULES: 1. All entries must have offi cial health certifi cates issued by an accredited veterinarian in the state of origin within 30 days prior to the show and must be available at the time the animals are penned. Upon arrival, all animals will be inspected by the Superintendent. 2. Not more than three individual entries or one group per exhibitor will be accepted in each class to compete for Estes Park Wool Market money. Association specials are controlled by the Associations. Not more than two premiums may be awarded any exhibitor in the individual classes. 3. Individual animals shown in all group classes must have been entered and shown in one of the classes for single animals. There are no group entry fees. Premiums for group classes will be one-half of stated premiums. Only one premium will be paid per exhibitor in group classes. 4. Sheep entered in lamb classes must have lamb teeth in place. Those entered in yearling classes may have two or four permanent teeth. 5. Where the animals of only one exhibitor or his immediate family are shown, the judge will award only one prize, which may be the grade to which the judge feels that the exhibitor is entitled, and need not necessarily be a fi rst or second prize. 6. All sheep must be owned by exhibitor prior to May 1, 2008. On sheep transferred, the date of transfer offi cially recorded by the breed association shall be20the date of ownership. 7. At the discretion of the Superintendent, larger classes may be divided by the age and breed into classes of approximately equal numbers. Premiums will be paid in each class. 8. Prior to the show, the judge or Superintendent may examine the sheep to determine if they have been entered in the proper categories and are not in violation of the show guidelines. This allows the exhibitor and the show offi cials to make necessary changes before the show begins. 9. Any exhibitor attempting to interfere with the judges during their adjudication or who publicly expresses disapproval of the decision of the judges, or who by act of infl uence shall be guilty of conduct unbecoming an exhibitor, shall forfeit the premium and be excluded from further competition. fi cial health certifi cates issued by an accredited veterinarian in the state of origin within 30 days prior to the show and must be available at the time the animals are penned. Upon arrival, all animals will be inspected by the Superintendent. 2. Not more than three individual entries or one group per exhibitor will be accepted in each class to compete for Estes Park Wool Market money. Association specials are controlled by the Associations. Not more than two premiums may be awarded any exhibitor in the individual classes. 3. Individual animals shown in all group classes must have been entered and shown in one of the classes for single animals. There are no group entry fees. Premiums for group classes will be one-half of stated premiums. Only one premium will be paid per exhibitor in group classes. 4. Sheep entered in lamb classes must have lamb teeth in place. Those entered in yearling classes may have two or four permanent teeth. 5. Where the animals of only one exhibitor or his immediate family are shown, the judge will award only one prize, which may be the grade to which the judge feels that the exhibitor is entitled, and need not necessarily be a fi rst or second prize. 6. All sheep must be owned by exhibitor prior to May 1, 2008. On sheep transferred, the date of transfer offi cially recorded by the breed association shall be the date of ownership. 7. At the discretion of the Superintendent, larger classes may be divided by the age and breed into classes of approximately equal numbers. Premiums will be paid in each class. 8. Prior to the show, the judge or Superintendent may examine the sheep to determine if they have been entered in the proper categories and are not in violation of the show guidelines. This allows the exhibitor and the show offi cials to make necessary changes before the show begins. 9. Any exhibitor attempting to interfere with the judges during their adjudication or who publicly expresses disapproval of the decision of the judges, or who by act of infl uence shall be guilty of conduct unbecoming an exhibitor, shall forfeit the premium and be excluded from further competition. fi rst or second prize. 6. All sheep must be owned by exhibitor prior to May 1, 2008. On sheep transferred, the date of transfer offi cially recorded by the breed association shall be the date of ownership. 7. At the discretion of the Superintendent, larger classes may be divided by the age and breed into classes of approximately equal numbers. Premiums will be paid in each class. 8. Prior to the show, the judge or Superintendent may examine the sheep to determine if they have been entered in the proper categories and are not in violation of the show guidelines. This allows the exhibitor and the show offi cials to make necessary changes before the show begins. 9. Any exhibitor attempting to interfere with the judges during their adjudication or who publicly expresses disapproval of the decision of the judges, or who by act of infl uence shall be guilty of conduct unbecoming an exhibitor, shall forfeit the premium and be excluded from further competition. fi cially recorded by the breed association shall be the date of ownership. 7. At the discretion of the Superintendent, larger classes may be divided by the age and breed into classes of approximately equal numbers. Premiums will be paid in each class. 8. Prior to the show, the judge or Superintendent may examine the sheep to determine if they have been entered in the proper categories and are not in violation of the show guidelines. This allows the exhibitor and the show offi cials to make necessary changes before the show begins. 9. Any exhibitor attempting to interfere with the judges during their adjudication or who publicly expresses disapproval of the decision of the judges, or who by act of infl uence shall be guilty of conduct unbecoming an exhibitor, shall forfeit the premium and be excluded from further competition. fi cials to make necessary changes before the show begins. 9. Any exhibitor attempting to interfere with the judges during their adjudication or who publicly expresses disapproval of the decision of the judges, or who by act of infl uence shall be guilty of conduct unbecoming an exhibitor, shall forfeit the premium and be excluded from further competition. fl uence shall be guilty of conduct unbecoming an exhibitor, shall forfeit the premium and be excluded from further competition. INDIVIDUAL CLASS PREMIUMS: First through fi fth place: $16, $12, $8, $4, $4 : First through fi fth place: $16, $12, $8, $4, $4 GROUP CLASS PREMIUMS: First through fi fth place: $8, $6, $4, $2, $2 : First through fi fth place: $8, $6, $4, $2, $2 RIBBONS: First through fi fth place, Reserve and Grand Champion : First through fi fth place, Reserve and Grand Champion SPECIAL AWARDS: TBA : TBA If you have any questions, feel free to email me or call.... Jennifer Tucker www.MooseMtnRanch.com 303-644-4603 -----Original Message----- From: schmick54 at aol.com To: jacob-list at jacobsheep.com; karen.herriotts at att.net Sent: Thu, 31 Jul 2008 10:55 pm Subject: [Jacob-list] Fwd: showing jacob she ep Karen and her daughters are brand new JSBA members. They could use a little help regarding shearing and showing sheep. Please help them out. -----Original Message----- From: Karen Herriotts To: schmick54 at aol.com Sent: Thu, 31 Jul 2008 5:56 am Subject: showing jacob sheep ??????????? Hi, I talked with you yesterday about our Jacob sheep.? You called about my kid0s registration?.Happy Hats.? Your hats are great.? When you show a Jacob sheep in a hand spinner?s class I am assuming you don?t shear them like our breading market animals.? What I read is you shear in early spring, wash them a few days before and put covers on them.? This is new for us and we would like to do it right.? The sheep were born in early spring.? Have any suggestions for beginners? ? Thanks, Karen Herriotts 301-854-6537 The Famous, the Infamous, the Lame - in your browser. Get the TMZ Toolbar Now! _______________________________________________ acob-list mailing list, sponsored by Swallow Lane Farm & Fiberworks acob-list at jacobsheep.com ttp://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/jacob-list -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From gotothewhip at aol.com Fri Aug 1 10:41:29 2008 From: gotothewhip at aol.com (gotothewhip at aol.com) Date: Fri, 01 Aug 2008 10:41:29 -0400 Subject: [Jacob-list] Fwd: Fwd: showing jacob sheep In-Reply-To: <8CAC1F3B74C96AD-6FC-704@webmail-df01.sysops.aol.com> References: <001d01c8f304$8706fce0$2c434d0c@ksh> <8CAC1A9EEFFFDF3-2B4-2858@webmail-nc18.sysops.aol.com> <8CAC1F3B74C96AD-6FC-704@webmail-df01.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <8CAC1FBD1B238B7-A3C-5E8@WEBMAIL-DG06.sim.aol.com> WOW.. I forgot to read what I wrote before posting.. sorry for the typos.. I was on the phone and typing and it looks horrid!? I promise I am far more well spoken and written than it appeared on that last post! Jennifer Tucker www.MooseMtnRanch.com -----Original Message----- From: gotothewhip at aol.com To: karen.herriotts at att.net; jacob-list at jacobsheep.com Sent: Fri, 1 Aug 2008 7:43 am Subject: Re: [Jacob-list] Fwd: showing jacob sheep Hi Karen, I would be HAPPY to help you with showing... We show quite a few.... I guess that is the understatement of the year!? For the most part, with very few exceptions, you show in a full fleece. and .. you dont do mych to them!? If your sheep are coated.. all you need to do it pick out the neck area and any sray pieces of hay... If not coated.. I have found that vaccuming them out a few days beforehand is the best method.. pick out the big stuf... try to be gentle when you vaccum as not to turn your sheep into a frizz ball.... but suck out the offending hay and dirt.? A shop vac is useable for this.. we have a livestock vaccum/blower that we like.. as we can blow out dirt too! I do wash my sheep's faces with a wet washcloth .... and legs get wiped off too....trim up the feet.. and at a big show, I put a little SHow Sheen (a horse product) on the horns to make them shine.. otherwise a good wipedown works!?? Dont forget to trim the hooves as far in advance as possible.. a sheep with sloppy toes does not walk well.. and one with sore feet from too close a trim will not do well either! Unlike market or most other sheep shows, you will likely show in a halter... We use plain colored rope ones.. sometimes the nylon ones... but we usually have more than 20 animals at the show.. so for the most part,.. we throw one on that fits and get in the ring! On a haonspinning class.. you do not fit the sheep at all.. you can trim off manure tags, and a bleached tip.. but they dont want you fitting them into litte puffballs like wool sheep or breeding animals.Take a look at my site.. many of the photos are taken at a show... the shep are cleaned up and hauled in the ring.? www.MooseMtnRanch.com My biggest advice.. is to REALLY get them halter broken.having a crazy leaping 4 horn sheep does noting to encorage folks to like the breed... but having a nice halter broke sheep invites folks to ask questions and talk to you. I had these handy.. this is for a Handspinning class.. I have highlighted the important stuff.... These rules may not necessarily apply.. but are a good base for a handspinning natural colored show. SUPERINTENDENTS: Dana Ruehlman, DVM; e-mail: druehlman@ gmail.com and Curtis Chong; e-mail:cchong at boulderassociates.com Dana Ruehlman, DVM; e-mail: druehlman@ gmail.com and Curtis Chong; e-mail:cchong at boulderassociates.com TIMES: In-place - 6 p.m. Friday, June 13 - 6 p.m. Friday, June 13 Release - 4 p.m. Sunday, June 15 - 4 p.m. Sunday, June 15 Natural Colored Sh eep Show - 9 a.m. Saturday, June 14 - 9 a.m. Saturday, June 14 Classic Breeds Sheep Show - 2 p.m. Saturday, June 14 - 2 p.m. Saturday, June 14 White Sheep Show - 10 a.m. Sunday, June 14 - 10 a.m. Sunday, June 14 Bluefaced Leister National Show - 12:30 p.m. Sunday, June 15 - 12:30 p.m. Sunday, June 15 REGISTRATION DEADLINE: Postmarked by May 21, 2008. Late fees of $7 per head if registration is postmarked between May 22, 2008 and May 31, 2008. NO registrations accepted after May 31, 2008. : Postmarked by May 21, 2008. Late fees of $7 per head if registration is postmarked between May 22, 2008 and May 31, 2008. NO registrations accepted after May 31, 2008. NO registrations accepted after May 31, 2008. JUDGE: Keith Padgett These sheep are raised primarily for the handspinning market and will be judged under the rules of the National Colored Wool Growers Assoc iation Judge?s Guide, with exceptions as noted in the White Handspinning Sheep Division Rules (copy available upon request). All sheep will be judged 60 percent on wool and 40 percent on conformation. Excessive vegetable contamination will be penalized. Physical defects will be severely penalized. Refer to the livestock section in the back of this book for health regulations, stalls and bedding information. Keith Padgett These sheep are raised primarily for the handspinning market and will be judged under the rules of the National Colored Wool Growers Assoc iation Judge?s Guide, with exceptions as noted in th e White Handspinning Sheep Division Rules (copy available upon request). All sheep will be judged 60 percent on wool and 40 percent on conformation. Excessive vegetable contamination will be penalized. Physical defects will be severely penalized. Refer to the livestock section in the back of this book for health regulations, stalls and bedding information. National Colored Wool Growers Assoc iation Judge?s Guide, with exceptions as noted in the White Handspinning Sheep Division Rules (copy available upon request). All sheep will be judged 60 percent on wool and 40 percent on conformation. Excessive vegetable contamination will be penalized. Physical defects will be severely penalized. Refer to the livestock section in the back of this book for health regulations, stalls and bedding information. , with exceptions as noted in the White Handspinning Sheep Division Rules (copy available upon request). All sheep will be judged 60 percent on wool and 40 percent on conformation. Excessive vegetable contamination will be penalized. Physical defects will be severely penalized. Refer to the livestock section in the back of this book for health regulations, stalls and bedding information. (copy available upon request). All sheep will be judged 60 percent on wool and 40 percent on conformation. Excessive vegetable contamination will be penalized. Physical defects will be severely penalized. Refer to the livestock section in the back of this book for health regulations, stalls and bedding information. 0ASHEEP PREPARATION NOTES: Sheep may be trimmed, tipped, or fuzzed-off, but not blocked. Bellies, heads, lower legs, and dock area may have wool of any length preferred by the exhibitor, but wool must not be trimmed or blocked to unequal lengths on chest, back, shoulders, sides or britch area. Wool must be free of excessive vegetable contamination, manure, paint, permanent stains, wool rot, breaks or tenderness, and cutting. These problems will be penalized according to severity. Sheep may be trimmed, tipped, or fuzzed-off, but not blocked. Bellies, heads, lower legs, and dock area may have wool of any length preferred by the exhibitor, but wool must not be trimmed or blocked to unequal lengths on chest, back, shoulders, sides or britch area. Wool must be free of excessive vegetable contamination, manure, paint, permanent stains, wool rot, breaks or tenderness, and cutting. These problems will be penalized according to severity. The registration form must be signed or it will be returned to you. All sheep must have premise identifi cation ear tags that comply with the National Scrapie Eradication Program, ATTACHED TO THE ANIMAL. Call 866-USDA-TAG (866-873-2824) for help. In Colorado call the USDA-APHIS Area Veterinary Services at 303-231-5385 for tags. fi cation ear tags that comply with the National Scrapie Eradication Program, ATTACHED TO THE ANIMAL. Call 866-USDA-TAG (866-873-2824) for help. In Colorado call the USDA-APHIS Area Veterinary Services at 303-231-5385 for tags. . Call 866-USDA-TAG (866-873-2824) for help. In Colorado call the USDA-APHIS Area Veterinary Services at 303-231-5385 for tags. NOTE: Due to the time of year and geographical location, sheep may be shown with a minimum of 1/2? of relaxed staple (the 2? minimum staple requirement is waived for the Wool Market Show only). Due to the time of year and geographical location, sheep may be shown with a minimum of 1/2? of relaxed staple (the 2? minimum staple requirement is waived for the Wool Market Show only). SHOW RULES: 1. All entries must have offi cial health certifi cates issued by an accredited veterinari an in the state of origin within 30 days prior to the show and must be available at the time the animals are penned. Upon arrival, all animals will be inspected by the Superintendent. 2. Not more than three individual entries or one group per exhibitor will be accepted in each class to compete for Estes Park Wool Market money. Association specials are controlled by the Associations. Not more than two premiums may be awarded any exhibitor in the individual classes. 3. Individual animals shown in all group classes must have been entered and shown in one of the classes for single animals. There are no group entry fees. Premiums for group classes will be one-half of stated premiums. Only one premium will be paid per exhibitor in group classes. 4. Sheep entered in lamb classes must have lamb teeth in place. Those entered in yearling classes may have tw o or four permanent teeth. 5. Where the animals of only one exhibitor or his immediate family are shown, the judge will award only one prize, which may be the grade20to which the judge feels that the exhibitor is entitled, and need not necessarily be a fi rst or second prize. 6. All sheep must be owned by exhibitor prior to May 1, 2008. On sheep transferred, the date of transfer offi cially recorded by the breed association shall be the date of ownership. 7. At the discretion of the Superintendent, larger classes may be divided by the age and breed into classes of approximately equal numbers. Premiums will be paid in each class. 8. Prior to the show, the judge or Superintendent may examine the sheep to determine if they have been entered in the proper categories and are not in violation of the show guidelines. This allows the exhibitor and the show offi cials to make necessary changes before the show begins. 9. Any exhibitor attempting to interfere with the judges during their adjudication or who publi cly expresses disapproval of the decision of the judges, or who by act of infl uence shall be guilty of conduct unbecoming an exhibitor, shall forfeit the premium and be excluded from further competition. fi cial health certifi cates issued by an accredited veterinari an in the state of origin within 30 days prior to the show and must be available at the time the animals are penned. Upon arrival, all animals will be inspected by the Super intendent. 2. Not more than three individual entries or one group per exhibitor will be accepted in each class to compete for Estes Park Wool Market money. Association specials are controlled by the Associations. Not more than two premiums may be awarded any exhibitor in the individual classes. 3. Individual animals shown in all group classes must have been entered and shown in one of the classes for single animals. There are no group entry fees. Premiums for group classes will be one-half of stated premiums. Only one premium will be paid per exhibitor in group classes. 4. Sheep entered in lamb classes must have lamb teeth in place. Those entered in yearling classes may have two or four permanent teeth. 5. Where the animals of only one exhibitor or his immediate family are shown, the judge will award only one prize, which may be the grade20to which the judge feels that the exhibitor is entitled, and need not necessarily be a fi rst or second prize. 6. All sheep must be owned by exhibitor prior to May 1, 2008. On sheep transferred, the date of transfer offi cially recorded by the breed association shall be the date of ownership. 7. At the discretion of the Superintendent, larger classes may be divided by the age and breed into classes of approximately equal numbers. Premiums will be paid in each class. 8. Prior to the show, the judge or Superintendent may examine the sheep to determine if they have been entered in the proper categories and ar e not in violation of the show guidelines. This allows the exhibitor and the show offi cials to make necessary changes before the show begins. 9. Any exhibitor attempting to interfere with the judges during their adjudication or who publi cly expresses disapproval of the decision of the judges, or who by act of infl uence shall be guilty of conduct unbecoming an exhibitor, shall forfeit the premium and be excluded from further competition. fi rst or second prize. 6. All sheep must be owned by exhibitor prior to May 1, 2008. On sheep transferred, the date of transfer offi cially recorded by the breed association shall be the date of ownership. 7. At the discretion of the Superintendent, larger classes may be divided by the age and breed into classes of approximately equal numbers. Premiums will be paid in each class. 8. Prior to the show, the judge or Superintendent may examine the sheep to determine if they have been entered in the proper categories and are not in violation of the show guidelines. This allows the exhibitor and the show offi cials to make necessary changes before the show begins. 9. Any exhibitor attempting to interfere with the judges during their adjudication or who publi cly expresses disapproval of the decision of the judges, or who by act of infl uence shall be guilty of conduct unbecoming an exhibitor, shall forfeit the premium and be excluded from further competition. fi cially recorded by the breed association shall be the da te of ownership. 7. At the discretion of the Superintendent, larger classes may be divided by the age and breed into classes of approximately equal numbers. Premiums will be paid in each class. 8. Prior to the show, the judge or Superintendent may examine the sheep to determine if they have been entered in the proper categories and are not in violation of the show guidelines. This allows the exhibitor and the show offi cials to make necessary changes before the show begins. 9. Any exhibitor attempting to interfere with the judges during their adjudication or who publi cly expresses disapproval of the decision of the judges, or who by act of infl uence shall be guilty of conduct unbecoming an exhibitor, shall forfeit the premium and be excluded from further competition. fi cials to make necessary changes before the show begins. 9. Any exhibitor attempting to interfere with the judges during their adjudication or who publi cly expresses disapproval of the decision of the judges, or who by act of infl uence shall be guilty of conduct unbecoming an exhibitor, shall forfeit the premium and be excluded from further competition. fl uence shall be guilty of conduct unbecoming an exhibitor, shall forfeit the premium and be excluded from further competition. INDIVIDUAL CLASS PREMIUMS: First through fi fth place: $16, $12, $8, $4, $4 : First through fi fth place: $16, $12, $8, $4, $4 GROUP CLASS PREMIUMS: First through fi fth place: $8, $6, $4, $2, $2 : First through20fi fth place: $8, $6, $4, $2, $2 RIBBONS: First through fi fth place, Reserve and Grand Champion : First through fi fth place, Reserve and Grand Champion SPECIAL AWARDS: TBA : TBA If you have any questions, feel free to email me or call.... Jennifer Tucker www.MooseMtnRanch.com 303-644-4603 -----Original Message----- From: schmick54 at aol.com To: jacob-list at jacobsheep.com; karen.herriotts at att.net Sent: Thu, 31 Jul 2008 10:55 pm Subject: [Jacob-list] Fwd: showing jacob sheep Karen and her daughters are brand new JSBA members. They could use a little help regarding shearing and showing sheep. Please help them out. -----Original Message----- From: Karen Herriotts To: schmick54 at aol.com Sent: Thu, 31 Jul 2008 5:56 am Subject: showing jacob sheep ??????????? Hi, I talked with you yesterday about our Jacob sheep.? You called about my kid0s registration?.Happy Hats.? Your hats are great.? When you show a Jacob sheep in a hand spinner?s class I am assuming you don?t shear them like our breading market animals.? What I read is you shear in early spring, wash them a few days before and put covers on them.? This is new for us and we would like to do it right.? The sheep were born in early spring.? Have any suggestions for beginners? ? Thanks, Karen Herriotts 301-854-6537 The Famous, the Infamous, the Lame - in your browser. Get the TMZ Toolbar Now! ______ _________________________________________ acob-list mailing list, sponsored by Swallow Lane Farm & Fiberworks acob-list at jacobsheep.com ttp://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/jacob-list The Famous, the Infamous, the Lame - in your browser. Get the TMZ Toolbar Now! _______________________________________________ acob-list mailing list, sponsored by Swallow Lane Farm & Fiberworks acob-list at jacobsheep.com ttp://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/jacob-list -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From patchworkfibers at alltel.net Fri Aug 1 20:35:15 2008 From: patchworkfibers at alltel.net (Linda) Date: Fri, 1 Aug 2008 20:35:15 -0400 Subject: [Jacob-list] Fwd: Fwd: showing jacob sheep In-Reply-To: <8CAC1FBD1B238B7-A3C-5E8@WEBMAIL-DG06.sim.aol.com> Message-ID: <200881203515.434553@patchwor-efob1t> I'm the typo champion, so don't sweat it :-) I am interested in the regulations for the Handspinning class. The highlighting didn't come through in the my post. Could you recap on the important stuff? Linda www.patchworkfibers.com Registered Jacob Sheep, Angora Rabbits, Handspun Yarn WOW.. I forgot to read what I wrote before posting.. sorry for the typos.. I was on the phone and typing and it looks horrid! I promise I am far more well spoken and written than it appeared on that last post! Jennifer Tucker www.MooseMtnRanch.com -----Original Message----- From: gotothewhip at aol.com To: karen.herriotts at att.net; jacob-list at jacobsheep.com Sent: Fri, 1 Aug 2008 7:43 am Subject: Re: [Jacob-list] Fwd: showing jacob sheep I had these handy.. this is for a Handspinning class.. I have highlighted the important stuff.... These rules may not necessarily apply.. but are a good base for a handspinning natural colored show. SUPERINTENDENTS: Dana Ruehlman, DVM; e-mail:20druehlman@ gmail.com and Curtis Chong; e-mail:cchong at boulderassociates.com TIMES: In-place - 6 p.m. Friday, June 13 Release - 4 p.m. Sunday, June 15 Natural Colored Sh eep Show - 9 a.m. Saturday, June 14 Classic Breeds Sheep Show - 2 p.m. Saturday, June 14 White Sheep Show - 10 a.m. Sunday, June 14 Bluefaced Leister National Show - 12:30 p.m. Sunday, June 15 REGISTRATION DEADLINE: Postmarked by May 21, 2008. Late fees of $7 per head if registration is postmarked between May 2 2, 2008 and May 31, 2008. NO registrations accepted after May 31, 2008. JUDGE: Keith Padgett These sheep are raised primarily for the handspinning market and will be judged under the rules of the National Colored Wool Growers Assoc iation Judge???s Guide, with exceptions as noted in the White Handspinning Sheep Division Rules (copy available upon request). All sheep will be judged 60 percent on wool and 40 percent on conformation. Excessive vegetable contamination will be penalized. Physical defects will be severely penalized. Refer to the livestock section in the back of this book for health regulations, stalls and bedding information. SHEEP PREPARATION NOTES: Sheep may be trimmed,20tipped, or fuzzed-off, but not blocked. Bellies, heads, lower legs, and dock area may have wool of any length preferred by the exhibitor, but wool must not be trimmed or blocked to unequal lengths on chest, back, shoulders, sides or britch area. Wool must be free of excessive vegetable contamination, manure, paint, permanent stains, wool rot, breaks or tenderness, and cutting. These problems will be penalized according to severity. The registration form must be signed or it will be returned to you. All sheep must have premise identifi cation ear tags that comply with the National Scrapie Eradication Program, ATTACHED TO THE ANIMAL. Call 866-USDA-TAG (866-873-2824) for help. In Colorado call the USDA-APHIS Area Veterinary Services at 303-231-5385 for tags. NOTE: Due to the time of year and geographical location, sheep may be shown with a minimum of 1/2??? of relaxed st aple (the 2??? minimum staple requirement is waived for the Wool Market Show only). SHOW RULES: 1. All entries must have offi cial health certifi cates issued by an accredited veterinari an in the state of origin within 30 days prior to the show and must be available at the time the animals are penned. Upon arrival, all animals will be inspected by the Superintendent. 2. Not more than three individual entries or one group per exhibitor will be accepted in each class to compete for Estes Park Wool Market money. Association specials are controlled by the Associations. Not more than two premiums may be awarded any exhibitor in the individual classes. 3. Individual animals shown in all group classes must have been entered and shown in one of the classes for single animals. There are no group entry fees. Premiums=2 0for group classes will be one-half of stated premiums. Only one premium will be paid per exhibitor in group classes. 4. Sheep entered in lamb classes must have lamb teeth in place. Those entered in yearling classes may have two or four permanent teeth. 5. Where the animals of only one exhibitor or his immediate family are shown, the judge will award only one prize, which may be the grade20to which the judge feels that the exhibitor is entitled, and need not necessarily be a fi rst or second prize. 6. All sheep must be owned by exhibitor prior to May 1, 2008. On sheep transferred, the date of transfer offi cially recorded by the breed association shall be the date of ownership. 7. At the discretion of the Superintendent, larger classes may be divided by the age and breed into classes of approximately equal numbers. Premiums will be paid in each class. 8. Prior to the show, the judge=2 0or Superintendent may examine the sheep to determine if they have been entered in the proper categories and are not in violation of the show guidelines. This allows the exhibitor and the show offi cials to make necessary changes before the show begins. 9. Any exhibitor attempting to interfere with the judges during their adjudication or who publi cly expresses disapproval of the decision of the judges, or who by act of infl uence shall be guilty of conduct unbecoming an exhibitor, shall forfeit the premium and be excluded from further competition. INDIVIDUAL CLASS PREMIUMS: First through fi fth place: $16, $12, $8, $4, $4 GROUP CLASS PREMIUMS: First through fi fth place: $8, $6, $4, $2, $2 RIBBONS: First through fi fth place, Reserve and Grand Champion SPECIAL AWARDS: TBA If you have any questions, feel free to email me or call.... Jennifer Tucker www.MooseMtnRanch.com 303-644-4603 -----Original Message----- From: schmick54 at aol.com To: jacob-list at jacobsheep.com; karen.herriotts at att.net Sent: Thu, 31 Jul 2008 10:55 pm Subject: [Jacob-list] Fwd: showing jacob sheep Karen and her daughters are brand new JSBA members. They could use a little help regarding shearing and showing sheep. Please help them out. -----Original Message----- From: Karen Herriotts To: schmick54 at aol.com Sent: Thu, 31 Jul 2008 5:56 am Subject: showing jacob sheep Hi, I talked with you yesterday about our Jacob sheep. You called about my kid0s registration???.Happy Hats. Your hats are great. When you show a Jacob sheep in a hand spinner???s class I am assuming you don???t shear them like our breading market animals. What I read is you shear in early spring, wash them a few days before and put covers on them. This is new for us and we would like to do it right. The sheep were born in early spring. Have any suggestions for beginners? Thanks, Karen Herriotts 301-854-6537  The Famous, the I nfamous, the Lame - in your browser. Get the TMZ Toolbar Now! _______________________________________________ Jacob-list mailing list, sponsored by Swallow Lane Farm & Fiberworks Jacob-list at jacobsheep.comhttp://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/jacob-list  The Famous, the Infamous, the Lame - in your browser. Get the TMZ Toolbar Now! _______________________________________________ Jacob-list mailing list, sponsored by Swallow Lane Farm & Fiberworks Jacob-list at jacobsheep.comhttp://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/jacob-list  The Famous, the Infamous, the Lame - in your browser. Get the TMZ Toolbar Now! -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From lynettefrick at gmail.com Sat Aug 2 18:20:35 2008 From: lynettefrick at gmail.com (Lynette Frick) Date: Sat, 2 Aug 2008 15:20:35 -0700 Subject: [Jacob-list] Sheep For Sale Message-ID: <22872c750808021520t45c9b1a2q74ea517f95542756@mail.gmail.com> Hi all, I just wanted to re-mention that we have some nice sheep still for sale. They can be seen on the ewe, lamb, and ram pages, or they are all listed together on the sheep for sale page http://www.idealjacobsheep.com/products.html . I will be updating the pics. soon. I have decided to list a couple of adults and lambs, that weren't previously being offered for sale. These are not culls (I have other uses for culls), but proven wonderful ewes and rams that I have truly been trying to hold onto as long as possible. They are only being offered for sale as I have not found a new job, hay is $15/bale, and I do not have enough pasture for everyone. More pictures, fleece samples, and production records available upon request. Some sheep not listed may be available, prices are negotiable. Free delivery to AGM is available. Like I said, these aren't culls, but good productive ewes, and rams. Thank you for your time Lynette Frick IDEAL FARM Jacob Sheep www.idealjacobsheep.com/products.html -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Jacobflock at aol.com Mon Aug 11 11:25:56 2008 From: Jacobflock at aol.com (Jacobflock at aol.com) Date: Mon, 11 Aug 2008 11:25:56 EDT Subject: [Jacob-list] my suspicion Message-ID: In a message dated 7/12/2008 5:17:03 PM Central Daylight Time, lambfarm at sover.net writes: Interesting, Fred. The guy who has one or two a year has only jacobs on his place. The person he got the ram from many years ago, had many years before that, a few romneys on her place, but says her jacobs are purebred, and I tend to believe her. They all came from a flock some nuns had in Maryland many years ago. She's changed ram lines very seldom, breeding pairs, father to daughter, father to granddaughter, cousin to great granddaughter, father to great great granddaughter, and it is in this generation and beyond that these white ones appear. A friend has one of them which was wethered, a male. I will check it out, see if there is any black skin, and take photos. I am tempted to believe that somewhere along the line there was a horned dorset and some characteristics got buried deep, in both male and female or father and great granddaughter, and the genetic slot machine came up with the right combo to produce the white lamb. But hey, I know very little about such things. I have no idea if any white to white have been bred. I think maybe a neighbor of his who got a white ewe and white male may have bred them. I'll ask and see what the result was... ----- Original Message ----- From: _Jacobflock at aol.com_ (mailto:Jacobflock at aol.com) To: _lambfarm at sover.net_ (mailto:lambfarm at sover.net) Sent: Saturday, July 12, 2008 5:22 PM Subject: Re: [Jacob-list] my suspicion In a message dated 7/11/2008 5:08:51 AM Central Daylight Time, _lambfarm at sover.net_ (mailto:lambfarm at sover.net) writes: someone said that they had a white lamb: where does that come from; I said I had seen white lambs in two flocks, both of whom did pretty intense line breeding, and wondered what the relationship was, figuring it just upped the possibilities of bringing out a possible recessive gene for one big spot...Someone also called the white lamb albino, but it was blue eyed, and I wondered, because my impression was that a true "albino" animal has red eyes, if this was NOT an albino, but just a white lamb. Also, the white lambs I'd seen had white hooves and white horns. ----- Original Message ----- From: _Jacobflock at aol.com_ (mailto:Jacobflock at aol.com) To: _patchworkfibers at alltel.net_ (mailto:patchworkfibers at alltel.net) ; _lambfarm at sover.net_ (mailto:lambfarm at sover.net) ; _jacob-list at jacobsheep.com_ (mailto:jacob-list at jacobsheep.com) Sent: Thursday, July 10, 2008 11:01 PM Subject: Re: [Jacob-list] my suspicion Where does this string start ... like I read half an e-mail. Is the question about the difference between S and s (dominant and recessive spotting)? or a recessive that has whitened one side and not the toher? I'm a couple ogf cards short of a full deck. Fred Horak St. Jude's Farm 1165 E. Lucas Road Lucas, TX 75002 I tried responding to this and ended up deleting a whole bunch of stuff becasuse I can't hit the right keys or control the mouse. Here comes another try at a "White Paper". If one begins with the genotype of the Jacob as a dominant black, piebald and accepts the recessive character of the piebald (the small s of the dominant big S Spotting gene), then one should not expect an all white "Jacob". No amount of recessive spotting in the dominant Black, by definition, can give a dominant S, all white sheep, and a Jacob cannot be an S (it is an oxymoron). Soay sheep (apprarently non-piebald) have been bred to Jacobs and produced piebald crosses indicating that piebalds breed true for the piebald gene even across breeds (ABRO flock on St. Kilda). However, and "over active recessive spotting gene" can result in more white (say 95%) but even at the extreme, the piebald or over active spotting ghene does not mask black eye markings or the nape of the neck (see some old JSC Journal articles from 1996, 99 and 2002 with references to Partridge and the pictures and descriptions of 5 levels of piebald markings. Ryder and Adalsteinsson explain (ARK 345-347, reprinted JSC 12/98) how the s (recessive piebald) gene prevents the black color cells from forming qnd how the finer white wool replaces it. They also describe the major color geneotypes.... Chromososomal locus A has a series of alleles: White (A1) is dominant to grey(A2) and both white and grey are dominant to wild or mouflon (A4) (white belly) and all are dominantr to 'wild color (A5). The locus A overrides (is epistatic) to B Black ... and Black is dominant to brown. At the end of the paradigm, there are two genotypes fro black and nine for white (A1,A3 and A5) and, of course, the recessive spotting gene. A lot of color gets hidden by white. R and A did a series of test breedings to verify these genotypes and they still seem to hold true. They do point out that "positive selective breeding" can lead to a dimunition of color traits. The story of the "pure white Jacob" has been told several times before and I think I recall a story that Ed Bissell had "one" that Sponenberg thought might have a "one spot piebald" ... which would be a tongue in cheek "S" since the s piebald creates a spot. The dominant S white should be a white sheep ... keratin fibers being white ... the absence of activated cellular eumelanin (black) ... more blue eyes in the population ... white feet .... white horn. If albino, the eyes are pink or redish. If there is any black around the eye or on the nape, it is an over active piebald ... you can't hide piebald. Are there any black fibers or black skin? But that is not to say one can find the gene that initiates the production of eumelanin for the dominant Black but a specific gene can get "goofed up" even at the dermis or follicle production level. When one produces and all white lamb one might look for black skin ... any black fiber. Note the observations, parents... and try to duplicate it, and parentage. Also breed the "white Jacob" to a Jacob to see if the evidence of the recessive gene shows up in the offspring. Few people breed culls, why? Perhaps the lambs are from registered parents (a requirement that they be marked to meet a breed standard) ... has it happened before or are all offspring from the parentage registered or are offspring selected to be registered. This later situation often blurring the principle that a breed consistently reproduces its type. The apparent looks masking the real genotype. I hope this contributes something to understanding. My bias is against white Jacobs but that does not stop me from trying to understand why they arise from time to time. I just haven't personnaly seen a white Jacob in person (although I've seen a number of hornless Jacobs) and I have not heard of anyone following up on the issue. Fred Horak St. Jude's Farm 1165 E. Lucas Road Lucas, TX 75002 Has anyone else seen one of these "white Jacobs"? **************Looking for a car that's sporty, fun and fits in your budget? Read reviews on AOL Autos. (http://autos.aol.com/cars-BMW-128-2008/expert-review?ncid=aolaut00050000000017 ) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From wedohoney at sbcglobal.net Wed Aug 20 17:11:31 2008 From: wedohoney at sbcglobal.net (JACI SIEHL) Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2008 14:11:31 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Jacob-list] Polioencephalomalacia Message-ID: <420101.85711.qm@web80603.mail.mud.yahoo.com> I don't know if anyone else has come across this, but I want to share my recent experience so that maybe it will save someone else from something similar. I brought a new ram lamb home on Sunday (day 1). On Thursday (day 5) I noticed he was laying around a bit more than normal and his stools had started clumping a bit. Since we were experiencing several days over 100 I assumed the heat that he was not accustomed to and a change in diet and environment were the cause . I watched him closely for the next couple of days. He was off his feed a little bit, not a lot, but just not eating as much as I would have expected. His temperature was normal, no irregularities in breathing or any other symptoms. On Sunday (day 8) his rumen was making some noise, but not a lot - I assumed due to loss of appetite. On Monday (day 9) evening he did not want to eat. About 3 hours later I found him standing stiff with his head bent way back and staring at the sky. It was one of the strangest things I'd ever seen. I spoke to my vet and he diagnosed it over the phone as PEM (polioencephalomalacia). He gave me three injections of B1 to be given once every 24 hours. Within 4 hours of giving him the first injection he looked almost normal and by the time he got the second one you'd never know there was anything wrong. My research found that the symptoms can take a week or better to show up if the cause is due to stress or a change in diet. Some foods can cause the rumen to not make or use Thiamin. Other causes can be too much sulfur. Evidently corn, corn by-products, molasses, and some weeds may contain thiaminases (render thiamin unusable by the animal). Alfalfa has a higher rate of sulfur than do grass hays. Sometimes water can have excessive sulfur. Neither sulfur or thiaminases are problems in the normal amounts and if the animal is not unduly stressed. But, sometimes it can take the animal over the top. If given enough B1 quickly enough it is supposed to be curable and not have long-lasting effects. But if not treated soon enough can be fatal. If B1 is not available you can use B Complex, but pay close attention to the level of B1 that is being administered - it is the only one that counts in this situation. This is an easy one for the average person to remedy as long as you recognize the signs and act quickly. There are a lot of sites on the Internet that give specifics - worth reading and being familiar with in case you ever need it. Jack and Jaci -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From aztreaz at earthlink.net Thu Aug 21 15:19:10 2008 From: aztreaz at earthlink.net (ARTHUR PARTRIDGE) Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2008 12:19:10 -0700 Subject: [Jacob-list] Polioencephalomalacia Message-ID: <410-220088421191910312@earthlink.net> --Previous Message from Jaci-- >On Monday (day 9) evening he did not want to eat. About 3 hours later I found him standing stiff with his head bent way back and >staring at the sky. It was one of the strangest things I'd ever seen. I spoke to my vet and he diagnosed it over the phone as PEM >(polioencephalomalacia). He gave me three injections of B1 to be >given once every 24 hours. Within 4 hours of giving him the first injection he looked almost normal and by the time he got the second one >you'd never know there was anything wrong. =============== You are very fortunate to catch it in time. Good job!! I have had this happen twice in 11 years of raising sheep. The first time I didn't know what it was and had the sheep put down. When I learned the cause I have always kept a fresh bottle of B-Complex vitamins on hand. One old wether was wobbly on his feet, one of the early signs of PEM. One injection of the B-Complex stopped the problem. Basically, the rumen becomes upset and the wrong type of bacteria start utilizing the vitamin called thiamine. The sheep thus becomes deficient in thiamine. Another cause of "star-gazing" can be from severe head injury; such as head-butting. There is a good possibility that my ewe (first PEM case) had this problem because she was fighting with an older ewe, when the two groups of ewes were reunited after the breeding season. Good job on the research. There is some discussion about the food causes of this problem. Molasses apparently isn't a cause by itself. They feed moll asses to sheep in Australia during droughts and there is no PEM. However, there is something about feeding molasses that can lead to PEM, but it is a rare event and I can't remember what it is. I feed bagged pellets that have some molasses and I was told that wasn't going to cause PEM. Everyone should have injectable B-Complex vitamins and/or Thiamine (vitamin B1) in their sheep first aid kits. Cathy Moscow, Idaho From gbanderson at ucdavis.edu Thu Aug 21 16:12:27 2008 From: gbanderson at ucdavis.edu (Gary Anderson) Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2008 13:12:27 -0700 Subject: [Jacob-list] Jacob-list Digest, Vol 48, Issue 6 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <93776662C2E84940BA2349A46C4A552A@GBAndersonLT1> Thanks for the heads up. While at the AGM, in fact about 15 minutes before my talk, I received a call from one of my my brothers who cared for our flock while we were away that one of our yearling ewes 'was down', lying flat with her head back. Since I couldn't check her myself, I told him to call the local vet. He was delayed getting there due to a previous call on a cattle dystocia; he gave her banamine and B complex vitamins, but she was dead the next morning. I surmise that she had the same problem you saw in your ram, but she didn't get timely treatment. -----Original Message----- From: jacob-list-bounces at jacobsheep.com [mailto:jacob-list-bounces at jacobsheep.com] On Behalf Of jacob-list-request at jacobsheep.com Sent: Thursday, August 21, 2008 9:15 AM To: jacob-list at jacobsheep.com Subject: Jacob-list Digest, Vol 48, Issue 6 Send Jacob-list mailing list submissions to jacob-list at jacobsheep.com To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/jacob-list or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to jacob-list-request at jacobsheep.com You can reach the person managing the list at jacob-list-owner at jacobsheep.com When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Jacob-list digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Polioencephalomalacia (JACI SIEHL) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2008 14:11:31 -0700 (PDT) From: JACI SIEHL Subject: [Jacob-list] Polioencephalomalacia To: jacob-list at jacobsheep.com Message-ID: <420101.85711.qm at web80603.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" I don't know if anyone else has come across this, but I want to share my recent experience so that maybe it will save someone else from something similar. I brought a new ram lamb home on Sunday (day 1). On Thursday (day 5) I noticed he was laying around a bit more than normal and his stools had started clumping a bit. Since we were experiencing several days over 100 I assumed the heat that he was not accustomed to and a change in diet and environment were the cause . I watched him closely for the next couple of days. He was off his feed a little bit, not a lot, but just not eating as much as I would have expected. His temperature was normal, no irregularities in breathing or any other symptoms. On Sunday (day 8) his rumen was making some noise, but not a lot - I assumed due to loss of appetite. On Monday (day 9) evening he did not want to eat. About 3 hours later I found him standing stiff with his head bent way back and staring at the sky. It was one of the strangest things I'd ever seen. I spoke to my vet and he diagnosed it over the phone as PEM (polioencephalomalacia). He gave me three injections of B1 to be given once every 24 hours. Within 4 hours of giving him the first injection he looked almost normal and by the time he got the second one you'd never know there was anything wrong. My research found that the symptoms can take a week or better to show up if the cause is due to stress or a change in diet. Some foods can cause the rumen to not make or use Thiamin. Other causes can be too much sulfur. Evidently corn, corn by-products, molasses, and some weeds may contain thiaminases (render thiamin unusable by the animal). Alfalfa has a higher rate of sulfur than do grass hays. Sometimes water can have excessive sulfur. Neither sulfur or thiaminases are problems in the normal amounts and if the animal is not unduly stressed. But, sometimes it can take the animal over the top. If given enough B1 quickly enough it is supposed to be curable and not have long-lasting effects. But if not treated soon enough can be fatal. If B1 is not available you can use B Complex, but pay close attention to the level of B1 that is being administered - it is the only one that counts in this situation. This is an easy one for the average person to remedy as long as you recognize the signs and act quickly. There are a lot of sites on the Internet that give specifics - worth reading and being familiar with in case you ever need it. Jack and Jaci -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: ------------------------------ _______________________________________________ Jacob-list mailing list Jacob-list at jacobsheep.com http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/jacob-list End of Jacob-list Digest, Vol 48, Issue 6 ***************************************** From aztreaz at earthlink.net Fri Aug 22 13:56:04 2008 From: aztreaz at earthlink.net (ARTHUR PARTRIDGE) Date: Fri, 22 Aug 2008 10:56:04 -0700 Subject: [Jacob-list] Polioencephalomalacia Message-ID: <410-22008852217564671@earthlink.net> --Previous Message-- >Thanks for the heads up. While at the AGM, in fact about 15 minutes before >my talk, I received a call from one of my my brothers who cared for our >flock while we were away that one of our yearling ewes 'was down', lying >flat with her head back. Since I couldn't check her myself, I told him to >call the local vet. He was delayed getting there due to a previous call on >a cattle dystocia; he gave her banamine and B complex vitamins, but she was >dead the next morning. I surmise that she had the same problem you saw in >your ram, but she didn't get timely treatment. ======== >From what I have heard and read, in the advanced stages the vet will insert an IV (directly in the veins) solution of B-Complex vitamins and perhaps something else. If the animal recovers, there is the possibility of permanent damage such as blindness. Even in the advanced stages I would first give a quick injection of B-Complex and then call the vet or in my case take the sheep to the WSU Veterinary Teaching Hospital in nearby Pullman, WA. Now if I see a sheep wobbly on it's feet, it gets a shot of B-Complex. I'm not waiting for the 'star-gazing' symptoms. One other point about PEM, when it occurs only one sheep is affected, not the entire herd. If the entire herd is wobbly on their feet it would not be PEM, maybe they just tapped into a misplaced keg of beer ;-) Cathy Partridge Moscow, Idaho From patchworkfibers at alltel.net Fri Aug 22 18:05:11 2008 From: patchworkfibers at alltel.net (Linda) Date: Fri, 22 Aug 2008 18:05:11 -0400 Subject: [Jacob-list] pepto-bismol for sheep Message-ID: <200882218511.579026@Linda-PC> I took a fecal sample from my ewe, Olivia, to the vet today. Olivia has been dealing with persistent diarrhea that nothing seems to help. I do my own fecal egg counts and couldn't find any evidence of coccidia or other parasites, but thought the vet might find something I'd missed. He didn't, so we are treating for bacterial scours. I about fell over when he handed me four pills, each about the size of a puppy and told me to stick them down her throat! I've always shied away from learning to use a balling gun as it looks like you could do some serious damage with one. The option was wrestling the pills down her throat with my hand or just facing the balling gun. After I got over the fear of putting the gun too deep and Dave saying "are you sure you aren't going to choke her?" (the vet said it's hard to get it too deep, so just relax), it was surprisingly easy. During the conversation, I told the vet that I'd tried Pepto-bismol with no effect for a few days and just was able to find kaolin-pectin this morning, which is my first choice for diarrhea, but hard to find these days. Kaopectate is no longer kaolin-pectin - it's the same as Pepto-dismal now. Dr. Lent cautioned strongly against using bismuth preparations for sheep. He said that sheep nutrition relies so much on absorption and bismuth works by coating the digestive system linings, thus greatly limiting absorption. You might cure the diarrhea, but could possibly induce a nutritional problem. Perhaps limiting absorption is a good thing if you are using it as a treatment for poisoning? I don't know, as I didn't think to ask him. He recommends a kaolin-pectin treatment over a bismuth treatment for diarrhea. If anyone has suggestions for a cause for her scours, I'd like to hear. She is not ill. She eats, drinks, and chews her cud. She is not losing weight. She has been locked in for the last week, eating only hay. She has Martha for company and Martha is pelleting normally. Our sheep get their water from one of our creeks, so protozoa of some type are a possibility, although she is the only one out of 22 sheep with scours, and the vet didn't see any evidence. The creek is fed by the spring where we get our water, although we get the water directly where the spring comes out of the ground and not after running above ground for 1000 feet or so. She has not been exposed to any weeds that might cause scours. I'm hoping the pills will take care of it. Linda www.patchworkfibers.com Registered Jacob Sheep, Angora Rabbits, Handspun Yarn -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From gotothewhip at aol.com Fri Aug 22 19:21:05 2008 From: gotothewhip at aol.com (gotothewhip at aol.com) Date: Fri, 22 Aug 2008 19:21:05 -0400 Subject: [Jacob-list] pepto-bismol for sheep In-Reply-To: <200882218511.579026@Linda-PC> References: <200882218511.579026@Linda-PC> Message-ID: <8CAD2C4E1DDCF56-338-23AA@WEBMAIL-DC20.sysops.aol.com> I was advised to try the "Pig Swig" pig scours treatment on my sheep.... It is a red liquid.... I didnt have the "opportunity" as the scours cleared up with my Kaloin I buy in the Gallon Jug...I was also advised against OTC human diarreha treatments.. especially Immodium , as it will shut down the rumen.? I also treat all of mine witha probiotic when they get the scours as it seems to help, and? also gets the bugs going... They loose lots of bugs with the scours! Any chance of encysted worms?? I know int he horse industry right now there is lots of problems with Ivermectin resistance and encysted protozoa that dont show up in fecals... But I think you would have a weight loss if that were the issue. Just some random thoughts.... : Jacob-list Sent: Fri, 22 Aug 2008 4:05 pm Subject: [Jacob-list] pepto-bismol for sheep I took a fecal sample from my ewe, Olivia, to the vet today. ?Olivia has been dealing with persistent diarrhea that nothing seems to help. I do my own fecal egg counts and couldn't find any evidence of coccidia or other parasites, but thought the vet might find something I'd missed. He didn't, so we are treating for bacterial scours. I about fell over when he handed me four pills, each about the size of a puppy and told me to stick them down her throat! I've always shied away from learning to use a balling gun as it looks like you could do some serious damage with one. The option was wrestling the pills down her throat with my hand or just facing the balling gun. After I got over the fear of putting the gun too deep and Dave saying "are you sure you aren't going to choke her?" (the vet said it's hard to get it too deep, so just relax), it was surprisingly easy. ? During the conversation, I told the vet that I'd tried Pepto-bismol with no effect for a few days and just was able to find kaolin-pectin this morning, which is my first choice for diarrhea, but hard to find these days. Kaopectate is no longer kaolin-pectin - it's the same as Pepto-dismal now. ?Dr. Lent cautioned strongly against using bismuth preparations for sheep. He said that sheep nutrition relies so much on absorption and bismuth works by coating the digestive system linings, thus greatly limiting absorption. You might cure the diarrhea, but could possibly induce a nutritional problem. Perhaps limiting absorption is a good thing if you are using it as a treatment for poisoning? I don't know, as I didn't think to ask him. He recommends a kaolin-pectin treatment over a bismuth treatment for diarrhea. ? If anyone has suggestions for a cause for her scours, I'd like to hear. She is not ill. She eats, drinks, and chews her cud. She is not losing weight. She has been locked in for the last week, eating only hay. She has Martha for company and Martha is pelleting normally. Our sheep get their water from one of our creeks, so protozoa of some type are a possibility, although she is the only one out of 22 sheep with scours, and the vet didn't see any evidence. ?The creek is fed by the spring where we get our water, although we get the water directly where the spring comes out of the ground and not after running above ground for 1000 feet or so. She has not been exposed to any weeds that might cause scours. ?I'm hoping the pills will take care of it. ? Linda ? ? www.patchworkfibers.com Registered Jacob Sheep, Angora Rabbits, Handspun Yarn _______________________________________________ Jacob-list mailing list, sponsored by Swallow Lane Farm & Fiberworks Jacob-list at jacobsheep.com http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/jacob-list -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From patchworkfibers at alltel.net Fri Aug 22 19:41:43 2008 From: patchworkfibers at alltel.net (Linda) Date: Fri, 22 Aug 2008 19:41:43 -0400 Subject: [Jacob-list] pepto-bismol for sheep In-Reply-To: <8CAD2C4E1DDCF56-338-23AA@WEBMAIL-DC20.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <2008822194143.045077@Linda-PC> I also treat with probiotics. I think the Pig Swig is just piperazine - another wormer, isn't it? Definitely never immodium for sheep!!! I appreciate your thoughts. I don't know much (like nothing) about encysted worms. What tests would determine if that was the case? Linda www.patchworkfibers.com Registered Jacob Sheep, Angora Rabbits, Handspun Yarn I was advised to try the "Pig Swig" pig scours treatment on my sheep.... It is a red liquid.... I didnt have the "opportunity" as the scours cleared up with my Kaloin I buy in the Gallon Jug...I was also advised against OTC human diarreha treatments.. especially Immodium , as it will shut down the rumen. I also treat all of mine witha probiotic when they get the scours as it seems to help, and also gets the bugs going... They loose lots of bugs with the scours! Any chance of encysted worms? I know int he horse industry right now there is lots of problems with Ivermectin resistance and encysted protozoa that dont show up in fecals... But I think you would have a weight loss if that were the issue. Just some random thoughts.... : Jacob-list Sent: Fri, 22 Aug 2008 4:05 pm Subject: [Jacob-list] pepto-bismol for sheep I took a fecal sample from my ewe, Olivia, to the vet today. Olivia has been dealing with persistent diarrhea that nothing seems to help. I do my own fecal egg counts and couldn't find any evidence of coccidia or other parasites, but thought the vet might find something I'd missed. He didn't, so we are treating for bacterial scours. I about fell over when he handed me four pills, each about the size of a puppy and told me to stick them down her throat! I've always shied away from learning to use a balling gun as it looks like you could do some serious damage with one. The option was wrestling the pills down her throat with my hand or just facing the balling gun. After I got over the fear of putting the gun too deep and Dave saying "are you sure you aren't going to choke her?" (the vet said it's hard to get it too deep, so just relax), it was surprisingly easy. During the conversation, I told the vet that I'd tried Pepto-bismol with no effect for a few days and just was able to find kaolin-pectin this morning, which is my first choice for diarrhea, but hard to find these days. Kaopectate is no longer kaolin-pectin - it's the same as Pepto-dismal now. Dr. Lent cautioned strongly against using bismuth preparations for sheep. He said that sheep nutrition relies so much on absorption and bismuth works by coating the digestive system linings, thus greatly limiting absorption. You might cure the diarrhea, but could possibly induce a nutritional problem. Perhaps limiting absorption is a good thing if you are using it as a treatment for poisoning? I don't know, as I didn't think to ask him. He recommends a kaolin-pectin treatment over a bismuth treatment for diarrhea. If anyone has suggestions for a cause for her scours, I'd like to hear. She is not ill. She eats, drinks, and chews her cud. She is not losing weight. She has been locked in for the last week, eating only hay. She has Martha for company and Martha is pelleting normally. Our sheep get their water from one of our creeks, so protozoa of some type are a possibility, although she is the only one out of 22 sheep with scours, and the vet didn't see any evidence. The creek is fed by the spring where we get our water, although we get the water directly where the spring comes out of the ground and not after running above ground for 1000 feet or so. She has not been exposed to any weeds that might cause scours. I'm hoping the pills will take care of it. Linda www.patchworkfibers.com Registered Jacob Sheep, Angora Rabbits, Handspun Yarn _______________________________________________ Jacob-list mailing list, sponsored by Swallow Lane Farm & Fiberworks Jacob-list at jacobsheep.comhttp://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/jacob-list Get the MapQuest Toolbar. Directions, Traffic, Gas Prices & More! -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From gotothewhip at aol.com Fri Aug 22 20:39:16 2008 From: gotothewhip at aol.com (gotothewhip at aol.com) Date: Fri, 22 Aug 2008 20:39:16 -0400 Subject: [Jacob-list] pepto-bismol for sheep In-Reply-To: <2008822194143.045077@Linda-PC> Message-ID: <8CAD2CFCEA74D03-338-26E2@WEBMAIL-DC20.sysops.aol.com> Spectromyacin?? Not sure the spelling.. But its for Pig Scours... this is what I have in my notes.... Have you ruled out Johne's Disease? -----Original Message----- From: Linda To: gotothewhip at aol.com; jacob-list at jacobsheep.com Sent: Fri, 22 Aug 2008 5:41 pm Subject: Re: [Jacob-list] pepto-bismol for sheep I also treat with probiotics. I think the Pig Swig is just piperazine - another wormer, isn't it? Definitely never immodium for sheep!!! ? I appreciate your thoughts. I don't know much (like nothing) about encysted worms. What tests would determine if that was the case? ? ? Linda ? www.patchworkfibers.com Registered Jacob Sheep, Angora Rabbits, Handspun Yarn ? I was advised to try the "Pig Swig" pig scours treatment on my sheep.... It is a red liquid.... I didnt have the "opportunity" as the scours cleared up with my Kaloin I buy in the Gallon Jug...I was also advised against OTC human diarreha treatments.. especially Immodium , as it will shut down the rumen.? I also treat all of mine witha probiotic when they get the scours as it seems to help, and? also gets the bugs going... They loose lots of bugs with the scours! ?Any chance of encysted worms?? I know int he horse industry right now there is lots of problems with Ivermectin resistance and encysted protozoa that dont show up in fecals... But I think you would have a weight loss if that were the issue. Just some random thoughts.... : Jacob-list Sent: Fri, 22 Aug 2008 4:05 pm Subject: [Jacob-list] pepto-bismol for sheep I took a fecal sample from my ewe, Olivia, to the vet today. ?Olivia has been dealing with persistent diarrhea that nothing seems to help. I do my own fecal egg counts and couldn't find any evidence of coccidia or other parasites, but thought the vet might find something I'd missed. He didn't, so we are treating for bacterial scours. I about fell over when he handed me four pills, each about the size of a puppy and told me to stick them down her throat! I've always shied away from learning to use a balling gun as it looks like you could do some serious damage with one. The option was wrestling the pills down her throat with my hand or just facing the balling gun. After I got over the fear of putting the gun too deep and Dave saying "are you sure you aren't going to choke her?" (the vet said it's hard to get it too deep, so just relax), it was surprisingly easy. During the conversation, I told the vet that I'd tried Pepto-bismol with no effect for a few days and just was able to find kaolin-pectin this morning, which is my first choice for diarrhea, but hard to find these days. Kaopectate is no longer kaolin-pectin - it's the same as Pepto-dismal now. ?Dr. Lent cautioned strongly against using bismuth preparations for sheep. He said that sheep nutrition relies so much on absorption and bismuth works by coating the digestive system linings, thus greatly limiting absorption. You might cure the diarrhea, but could possibly induce a nutritional problem. Perhaps limiting absorption is a good thing if you are using it as a treatment for poisoning? I don't know, as I didn't think to ask him. He recommends a kaolin-pectin treatment over a bismuth treatment for diarrhea. If anyone has suggestions for a cause for her scours, I'd like to hear. She is not ill. She eats, drinks, and chews her cud. She is not losing weight. She has been locked in for the last week, eating only hay. She has Martha for company and Martha is pelleting normally. Our sheep get their water from one of our creeks, so protozoa of some type are a possibility, although she is the only one out of 22 sheep with scours, and the vet didn't see any evidence. ?The creek is fed by the spring where we get our water, although we get the water directly where the spring comes out of the ground and not after running above ground for 1000 feet or so. She has not been exposed to any weeds that might cause scours. ?I'm hoping the pills will take care of it. Linda ? www.patchworkfibers.com Registered Jacob Sheep, Angora Rabbits, Handspun Yarn _______________________________________________ Jacob-list mailing list, sponsored by Swallow Lane Farm & Fiberworks Jacob-list at jacobsheep.comhttp://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/jacob-list Get the MapQuest Toolbar. Directions, Traffic, Gas Prices & More! -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From patchworkfibers at alltel.net Fri Aug 22 21:10:53 2008 From: patchworkfibers at alltel.net (Linda) Date: Fri, 22 Aug 2008 21:10:53 -0400 Subject: [Jacob-list] pepto-bismol for sheep In-Reply-To: <8CAD2CFCEA74D03-338-26E2@WEBMAIL-DC20.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <2008822211053.053073@Linda-PC> That's Scour-Halt. Before I went to the vet, I was thinking of trying that. I did read on another sheep list that it does cure scours, but is very hard on the sheep. I haven't ruled out Johne's Disease as I haven't really considered it, nor did the vet. This has been going on for a couple of weeks - if it goes on longer or if she starts to lose weight, it might be something to consider. I think that in sheep, wasting is more common that scours, although I may be wrong. She certainly is not wasting away! She is bright and alert and tired of having her bottom washed :-). How common is Johne's Disease? I know what it is, but I've never known anyone to have it in their flock. I just googled Johne's Disease Jacob Sheep and came across this interesting site: http://www.johnes.org/goats/truecases.html The second case is regarding Karen Kerr's farm, where she had goats positive for Johne's running with her Jacobs (obviously she didn't know they had Johne's when she put them together). Linda www.patchworkfibers.com Registered Jacob Sheep, Angora Rabbits, Handspun Yarn Spectromyacin? Not sure the spelling.. But its for Pig Scours... this is what I have in my notes.... Have you ruled out Johne's Disease? -----Original Message----- From: Linda To: gotothewhip at aol.com; jacob-list at jacobsheep.com Sent: Fri, 22 Aug 2008 5:41 pm Subject: Re: [Jacob-list] pepto-bismol for sheep I also treat with probiotics. I think the Pig Swig is just piperazine - another wormer, isn't it? Definitely never immodium for sheep!!! I appreciate your thoughts. I don't know much (like nothing) about encysted worms. What tests would determine if that was the case? Linda www.patchworkfibers.com Registered Jacob Sheep, Angora Rabbits, Handspun Yarn I was advised to try the "Pig Swig" pig scours treatment on my sheep.... It is a red liquid.... I didnt have the "opportunity" as the scours cleared up with my Kaloin I buy in the Gallon Jug...I was also advised against OTC human diarreha treatments.. especially Immodium , as it will shut down the rumen. I also treat all of mine witha probiotic when they get the scours as it seems to help, and also gets the bugs going... They loose lots of bugs with the scours! Any chance of encysted worms? I know int he horse industry right now there is lots of problems with Ivermectin resistance and encysted protozoa that dont show up in fecals... But I think you would have a weight loss if that were the issue. Just some random thoughts.... : Jacob-list Sent: Fri, 22 Aug 2008 4:05 pm Subject: [Jacob-list] pepto-bismol for sheep I took a fecal sample from my ewe, Olivia, to the vet today. Olivia has been dealing with persistent diarrhea that nothing seems to help. I do my own fecal egg counts and couldn't find any evidence of coccidia or other parasites, but thought the vet might find something I'd missed. He didn't, so we are treating for bacterial scours. I about fell over when he handed me four pills, each about the size of a puppy and told me to stick them down her throat! I've always shied away from learning to use a balling gun as it looks like you could do some serious damage with one. The option was wrestling the pills down her throat with my hand or just facing the balling gun. After I got over the fear of putting the gun too deep and Dave saying "are you sure you aren't going to choke her?" (the vet said it's hard to get it too deep, so just relax), it was surprisingly easy. During the conversation, I told the vet that I'd tried Pepto-bismol with no effect for a few days and just was able to find kaolin-pectin this morning, which is my first choice for diarrhea, but hard to find these days. Kaopectate is no longer kaolin-pectin - it's the same as Pepto-dismal now. Dr. Lent cautioned strongly against using bismuth preparations for sheep. He said that sheep nutrition relies so much on absorption and bismuth works by coating the digestive system linings, thus greatly limiting absorption. You might cure the diarrhea, but could possibly induce a nutritional problem. Perhaps limiting absorption is a good thing if you are using it as a treatment for poisoning? I don't know, as I didn't think to ask him. He recommends a kaolin-pectin treatment over a bismuth treatment for diarrhea. If anyone has suggestions for a cause for her scours, I'd like to hear. She is not ill. She eats, drinks, and chews her cud. She is not losing weight. She has been locked in for the last week, eating only hay. She has Martha for company and Martha is pelleting normally. Our sheep get their water from one of our creeks, so protozoa of some type are a possibility, although she is the only one out of 22 sheep with scours, and the vet didn't see any evidence. The creek is fed by the spring where we get our water, although we get the water directly where the spring comes out of the ground and not after running above ground for 1000 feet or so. She has not been exposed to any weeds that might cause scours. I'm hoping the pills will take care of it. Linda www.patchworkfibers.com Registered Jacob Sheep, Angora Rabbits, Handspun Yarn _______________________________________________ Jacob-list mailing list, sponsored by Swallow Lane Farm & Fiberworks Jacob-list at jacobsheep.comhttp://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/jacob-list Get the MapQuest Toolbar. Directions, Traffic, Gas Prices & More! Get the MapQuest Toolbar. Directions, Traffic, Gas Prices & More! -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From guschi73 at yahoo.com Fri Aug 22 22:21:14 2008 From: guschi73 at yahoo.com (Gooch) Date: Fri, 22 Aug 2008 19:21:14 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Jacob-list] diarrhea in sheep Message-ID: <627824.45852.qm@web54503.mail.re2.yahoo.com> If you test for Johnes- use the ELISA test rather than the CF or AGID test. It's a slightly better test. We use the tests frequently at work (cattle) and while we do get a few false positives with the ELISA, we get more false negatives with the other tests. And a Johnes Fecal only indicates if the animal is shedding at the time of sampling- unless you have the lab run a PCR on all samples (positive or negative). This would pick up any dead organisms that are in the feces. What about Cryptosporidium or Giardia spp? Some animals are more susceptible than others. http://www.organic-vet.reading.ac.uk/Sheepweb/disease/crypt/crypt1.htm Karen's animals are now all healthy and well! I have some of her ewes- the oldest one lambed this spring at age 11! Shel ~*~*~*~*~*~ ~ Goochland Acres ~ ~ Asylum Farm ~ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From aztreaz at earthlink.net Fri Aug 22 23:34:46 2008 From: aztreaz at earthlink.net (ARTHUR PARTRIDGE) Date: Fri, 22 Aug 2008 20:34:46 -0700 Subject: [Jacob-list] Pepto-bismol for sheep Message-ID: <410-22008862333446828@earthlink.net> --Linda wrote-- >Dr. Lent cautioned strongly against using bismuth preparations for sheep. He said that sheep nutrition relies so much on absorption and >bismuth works by coating the digestive system linings, thus greatly limiting absorption. ======== That's the reason that Laura Lawson (author of Lamb Problems and also Managing Your Ewe and Her Newborn Lambs) uses when she advises use of Pepto-Bismol for lambs with scours. It acts to protect the lining of the intestines when they are inflamed from a case of the scours. One major problem with a prolonged case of the scours in lambs (or Linda's ewe) is permanent damage to the intestinal lining. As for absorption, it probably doesn't stay in the digestive tract that long. I used it for my bottle baby lamb last year; in fact, I used a lot of it when she got the scours. She didn't seem deprived of nutrients. She got the scours because she couldn't tolerate the commercial milk replacer and had to go on goat's milk. The Pepto did its job by protecting the intestinal lining. I wouldn't recommend using it for a lengthy period of time because it probably does limit absorption over time. A quick review of online literature also supports the use of Pepto-Bismol, especially for young ruminants. Cathy Moscow, Idaho P.S. Linda, I hope the ewe recovers. I have no idea what the cause of the diarrhea could be, but she probably needs a specific antibiotic. But hey, at least her intestines are not permanently damaged because of the Pepto-Bismol treatment you gave her...;-) From aztreaz at earthlink.net Fri Aug 22 23:57:28 2008 From: aztreaz at earthlink.net (ARTHUR PARTRIDGE) Date: Fri, 22 Aug 2008 20:57:28 -0700 Subject: [Jacob-list] Jacob sheepskins wanted Message-ID: <410-22008862335728125@earthlink.net> Does anyone know of a seller of high quality Jacob sheepskins? I made a terrible mistake the other day and lost the use of my Jacob pelts for tanning. I had two fresh pelts from the butcher's shop, but I couldn't get them salted right away. I folded them with the fleece on the outside and put them in a cool room. Big mistake. Two days later the wool pulled away from the skins. I salvaged the wool, but was told that I would never get the stink out of it so don't make a scarf or anything to wear around the face. I might get away with knitting a pair of socks for someone with stinky feet anyway,,,,, Anyway, I owe a friend a sheepskin, but don't want to give her the ones I have. I am interested in purchasing a nice black/white sheepskin or two; not spotted, but blended black and white to replace the ones I lost. Remember, salt those fresh pelts immediately!. Thanks, Cathy Moscow, Idaho From schmick54 at aol.com Sat Aug 23 01:54:57 2008 From: schmick54 at aol.com (schmick54 at aol.com) Date: Sat, 23 Aug 2008 01:54:57 -0400 Subject: [Jacob-list] Pepto-bismol for sheep In-Reply-To: <410-22008862333446828@earthlink.net> References: <410-22008862333446828@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <8CAD2FBE82D1516-B98-5BE1@WEBMAIL-NG14.sysops.aol.com> My Vet says that Laura Lawson knows as much about sheep as l do ( not too much !). She is NOT a vet and writes off the top of her head. I threw out her book as it was totally useless ! Her cures are dangerous !! Her diagnoses are incorrect. My Vet says NEVER give a sheep pepto-bismol . MICK -----Original Message----- From: ARTHUR PARTRIDGE To: jacob-list Cc: patchworkfibers at alltel.net Sent: Fri, 22 Aug 2008 9:34 pm Subject: Re: [Jacob-list] Pepto-bismol for sheep --Linda wrote-- >Dr. Lent cautioned strongly against using bismuth preparations for sheep. He said that sheep nutrition relies so much on absorption and >bismuth works by coating the digestive system linings, thus greatly limiting absorption. ======== That's the reason that Laura Lawson (author of Lamb Problems and also Managing Your Ewe and Her Newborn Lambs) uses when she advises use of Pepto-Bismol for lambs with scours. It acts to protect the lining of the intestines when they are inflamed from a case of the scours. One major problem with a prolonged case of the scours in lambs (or Linda's ewe) is permanent damage to the intestinal lining. As for absorption, it probably doesn't stay in the digestive tract that long. I used it for my bottle baby lamb last year; in fact, I used a lot of it when she got the scours. She didn't seem deprived of nutrients. She got the scours because she couldn't tolerate the commercial milk replacer and had to go on goat's milk. The Pepto did its job by protecting the intestinal lining. I wouldn't recommend using it for a lengthy period of time because it probably does limit absorption over time. A quick review of online literature also supports the use of Pepto-Bismol, especially for young ruminants. Cathy Moscow, Idaho P.S. Linda, I hope the ewe recovers. I have no idea what the cause of the diarrhea could be, but she probably needs a specific antibiotic. But hey, at least her intestines are not permanently damaged because of the Pepto-Bismol treatment you gave her...;-) _______________________________________________ Jacob-list mailing list, sponsored by Swallow Lane Farm & Fiberworks Jacob-list at jacobsheep.com http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/jacob-list -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From patchworkfibers at alltel.net Sat Aug 23 08:12:45 2008 From: patchworkfibers at alltel.net (Linda) Date: Sat, 23 Aug 2008 08:12:45 -0400 Subject: [Jacob-list] diarrhea in sheep In-Reply-To: <627824.45852.qm@web54503.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <200882381245.116433@Linda-PC> Giardia is a common concern around here and the vet did mention it, especially since we water the sheep from the creek. The treatment is safeguard for three days. He thought that the sulfamethazine was the best treatment to start with, as he saw no evidence of giardia. But, it is still a possibility, even though it's only one ewe out of 22. As you say, some animals can be more susceptible. I have to look up cyprtosporidium, as I'm unfamiliar with that. The article did say that none of Karen's Jacobs ever tested positive for Johne's. I've had sheep from her flock before and wish I had more! Olivia's stools are much firmer this morning. She was happily chewing her cud when I went out this morning. I grabbed to be make an allover check to be sure she is not "wasting". She's a bit on the chubby side (like where is that backbone) Linda www.patchworkfibers.com Registered Jacob Sheep, Angora Rabbits, Handspun YarnIf you test for Johnes- use the ELISA test rather than the CF or AGID test. It's a slightly better test. We use the tests frequently at work (cattle) and while we do get a few false positives with the ELISA, we get more false negatives with the other tests. And a Johnes Fecal only indicates if the animal is shedding at the time of sampling- unless you have the lab run a PCR on all samples (positive or negative). This would pick up any dead organisms that are in the feces. What about Cryptosporidium or Giardia spp? Some animals are more susceptible than others. http://www.organic-vet.reading.ac.uk/Sheepweb/disease/crypt/crypt1.htm Karen's animals are now all healthy and well! I have some of her ewes- the oldest one lambed this spring at age 11! Shel ~*~*~*~*~*~ ~ Goochland Acres ~ ~ Asylum Farm ~ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From gotothewhip at aol.com Sat Aug 23 10:50:41 2008 From: gotothewhip at aol.com (gotothewhip at aol.com) Date: Sat, 23 Aug 2008 10:50:41 -0400 Subject: [Jacob-list] diarrhea in sheep In-Reply-To: <200882381245.116433@Linda-PC> Message-ID: <8CAD346BF54F517-A64-20B9@mblk-d43.sysops.aol.com> Hmmm... Welll So much for the Johnes scare!?? The only reason that came to mind... Is when I worked at Ok State Animal Disease Diagnostic Lab.... that was one of the first things suspected in an adult sheep with ongoing scours?with no other significant symptoms.. but yes.. they tended to be the hard keepers of the flock!? You asked about detection of encysted protozoa.. I am not aware... But this is usually an animal who is not holding weight, has a bad haircoat and a general unthriftiness.... We do a Panacur Powerpack (5 days of Fendbendazole at double the normal dose) then follow that with Quest Plus 10 days later, and then another dose of regular Quest Gel in 10 days.....? But again... a chubby one isnt USUALLY a suspect.... Jen -----Original Message----- From: Linda To: Gooch ; jacob-list at jacobsheep.com Sent: Sat, 23 Aug 2008 6:12 am Subject: Re: [Jacob-list] diarrhea in sheep Giardia is a common concern around here and the vet did mention it, especially since we water the sheep from the creek. ?The treatment is safeguard for three days. He thought that the sulfamethazine was the best treatment to start with, as he saw no evidence of giardia. But, it is still a possibility, even though it's only one ewe out of 22. ?As you say, some animals can be more susceptible. ?I have to look up cyprtosporidium, as I'm unfamiliar with that. ? The article did say that none of Karen's Jacobs ever tested positive for Johne's. I've had sheep from her flock before and wish I had more! ? Olivia's stools are much firmer this morning. She was happily chewing her cud when I went out this morning. I grabbed to be make an allover check to be sure she is not "wasting". ?She's a bit on the chubby side (like where is that backbone) ? Linda ? www.patchworkfibers.com Registered Jacob Sheep, Angora Rabbits, Handspun YarnIf you test for Johnes- use the ELISA test rather than the CF or AGID test.? It's a slightly better test.? We use the tests frequently at work (cattle) and while we do get a few false positives with the ELISA, we get more false negatives with the other tests.? And a Johnes Fecal only indicates if the animal is shedding at the time of sampling- unless you have the lab run a PCR on all samples (positive or negative).? This would pick up any dead organisms that are in the feces. What about Cryptosporidium or Giardia spp?? Some animals are more susceptible than others. http://www.organic-vet.reading.ac.uk/Sheepweb/disease/crypt/crypt1.htm Karen's animals are now all healthy and well!? I have some of her ewes- the oldest one lambed this spring at age 11! ? Shel ~*~*~*~*~*~ ~ Goochland Acres ~ ~ Asylum Farm ~ _______________________________________________ Jacob-list mailing list, sponsored by Swallow Lane Farm & Fiberworks Jacob-list at jacobsheep.com http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/jacob-list -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From patchworkfibers at alltel.net Sun Aug 24 10:30:21 2008 From: patchworkfibers at alltel.net (Linda) Date: Sun, 24 Aug 2008 10:30:21 -0400 Subject: [Jacob-list] diarrhea in sheep Message-ID: <2008824103021.029025@Linda-PC> Thank you to everyone that responded on the list and privately. I would like to encourage those of you that responded privately to share your thoughts with the list. I learned alot from your replies and I know there are others interested in what you have to say, even if they are not dealing with the same problem at this time. Olivia is much improved today with much firmer droppings. Not pellets yet, but not liquid. Linda www.patchworkfibers.com Registered Jacob Sheep, Angora Rabbits, Handspun Yarn -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From patchworkfibers at alltel.net Sun Aug 24 10:36:46 2008 From: patchworkfibers at alltel.net (Linda) Date: Sun, 24 Aug 2008 10:36:46 -0400 Subject: [Jacob-list] Lilac ewe lamb for sale Message-ID: <2008824103646.923128@Linda-PC> http://www.patchworkfibers.com/2008SheepForSale.htm I can deliver to SAFF in Asheville, NC the last weekend of October. Linda www.patchworkfibers.com Registered Jacob Sheep, Angora Rabbits, Handspun Yarn -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From patchworkfibers at alltel.net Wed Aug 27 19:42:48 2008 From: patchworkfibers at alltel.net (Linda) Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2008 19:42:48 -0400 Subject: [Jacob-list] Olivia update Message-ID: <2008827194248.918930@Linda-PC> Today Olivia has real pellets - still slightly soft, but close to normal. Monday she received her second round of Sustain (which is a time release sulfamethazine). I realized that I had underdosed on the kaolin (was using a dog dosage) on Sunday, so on Monday, she also got two doses of 4 ounces each of Kaolin. Some of the suggestions I received privately were: whipworms, which do not always show up in a flotation fecal egg count - needs to be centrifuged, which we didn't do. Would have done that if the sustain didn't work. Clostridium was mentioned. Olivia is up to date on her shots, but clostridium could have caused the upset and was something I'd thought about. I've read that many undiagnosed ailments may be clostridium. I tend to think that the CDT is mostly for tetanus and need to be reminded that it protects against more than tetanus. Irritable bowel syndrome was jokingly suggested, but who knows - maybe sheep do get ibs. This has gone on with Olivia for over three weeks. No other sheep has exhibited anything except normal pellets. Olivia is "cured", but I still can't say for sure just what she had. Sometimes you just got to be satisfied with recovery :-) Linda Where we have received over 9" of rain in the last two days!! www.patchworkfibers.com Registered Jacob Sheep, Angora Rabbits, Handspun Yarn -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From messen at socket.net Wed Aug 27 20:36:37 2008 From: messen at socket.net (Mark Essen) Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2008 19:36:37 -0500 Subject: [Jacob-list] Olivia update In-Reply-To: <2008827194248.918930@Linda-PC> References: <2008827194248.918930@Linda-PC> Message-ID: <19B689AE53D241B3960B0CB4E48A2A73@famousacresPC> Even in ignorance about the problem, we can all still share the joy and excitement or real pellets. Mark ----- Original Message ----- From: Linda To: Jacob-list Sent: Wednesday, August 27, 2008 6:42 PM Subject: [Jacob-list] Olivia update Today Olivia has real pellets - still slightly soft, but close to normal. Monday she received her second round of Sustain (which is a time release sulfamethazine). I realized that I had underdosed on the kaolin (was using a dog dosage) on Sunday, so on Monday, she also got two doses of 4 ounces each of Kaolin. Some of the suggestions I received privately were: whipworms, which do not always show up in a flotation fecal egg count - needs to be centrifuged, which we didn't do. Would have done that if the sustain didn't work. Clostridium was mentioned. Olivia is up to date on her shots, but clostridium could have caused the upset and was something I'd thought about. I've read that many undiagnosed ailments may be clostridium. I tend to think that the CDT is mostly for tetanus and need to be reminded that it protects against more than tetanus. Irritable bowel syndrome was jokingly suggested, but who knows - maybe sheep do get ibs. This has gone on with Olivia for over three weeks. No other sheep has exhibited anything except normal pellets. Olivia is "cured", but I still can't say for sure just what she had. Sometimes you just got to be satisfied with recovery :-) Linda Where we have received over 9" of rain in the last two days!! www.patchworkfibers.com Registered Jacob Sheep, Angora Rabbits, Handspun Yarn ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ Jacob-list mailing list, sponsored by Swallow Lane Farm & Fiberworks Jacob-list at jacobsheep.com http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/jacob-list -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From patchworkfibers at alltel.net Wed Aug 27 20:41:27 2008 From: patchworkfibers at alltel.net (Linda) Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2008 20:41:27 -0400 Subject: [Jacob-list] Olivia update In-Reply-To: <19B689AE53D241B3960B0CB4E48A2A73@famousacresPC> Message-ID: <2008827204127.226696@Linda-PC> I guess it's a little weird to be getting excited about sheep pellets :-) Linda www.patchworkfibers.com Registered Jacob Sheep, Angora Rabbits, Handspun YarnEven in ignorance about the problem, we can all still share the joy and excitement or real pellets. Mark ----- Original Message ----- From:Linda To:Jacob-list Sent: Wednesday, August 27, 2008 6:42 PM Subject: [Jacob-list] Olivia update Today Olivia has real pellets - still slightly soft, but close to normal. Monday she received her second round of Sustain (which is a time release sulfamethazine). I realized that I had underdosed on the kaolin (was using a dog dosage) on Sunday, so on Monday, she also got two doses of 4 ounces each of Kaolin. Some of the suggestions I received privately were: whipworms, which do not always show up in a flotation fecal egg count - needs to be centrifuged, which we didn't do. Would have done that if the sustain didn't work. Clostridium was mentioned. Olivia is up to date on her shots, but clostridium could have caused the upset and was something I'd thought about. I've read that many undiagnosed ailments may be clostridium. I tend to think that the CDT is mostly for tetanus and need to be reminded that it protects against more than tetanus. Irritable bowel syndrome was jokingly suggested, but who knows - maybe sheep do get ibs. This has gone on with Olivia for over three weeks. No other sheep has exhibited anything except normal pellets. Olivia is "cured", but I still can't say for sure just what she had. Sometimes you just got to be satisfied with recovery :-) Linda Where we have received over 9" of rain in the last two days!! www.patchworkfibers.com Registered Jacob Sheep, Angora Rabbits, Handspun Yarn  _______________________________________________ Jacob-list mailing list, sponsored by Swallow Lane Farm & Fiberworks Jacob-list at jacobsheep.com http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/jacob-list -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From agf777 at earthlink.net Wed Aug 27 21:02:25 2008 From: agf777 at earthlink.net (Steve and Trish Barrows) Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2008 21:02:25 -0400 Subject: [Jacob-list] Fw: Olivia update Message-ID: <43F11D63D68E48A08507F31F71ABAD91@steve> ----- Original Message ----- From: Steve and Trish Barrows To: Linda Sent: Wednesday, August 27, 2008 9:01 PM Subject: Re: [Jacob-list] Olivia update Oh no, no no,....I also do the same thing with bunny pellets-just have to remember that my non-animal owning friends don't consider it appropriate mealtime conversation, lol. Trish ----- Original Message ----- From: Linda To: Mark Essen ; Jacob-list Sent: Wednesday, August 27, 2008 8:41 PM Subject: Re: [Jacob-list] Olivia update I guess it's a little weird to be getting excited about sheep pellets :-) Linda www.patchworkfibers.com Registered Jacob Sheep, Angora Rabbits, Handspun YarnEven in ignorance about the problem, we can all still share the joy and excitement or real pellets. Mark ----- Original Message ----- From:Linda To:Jacob-list Sent: Wednesday, August 27, 2008 6:42 PM Subject: [Jacob-list] Olivia update Today Olivia has real pellets - still slightly soft, but close to normal. Monday she received her second round of Sustain (which is a time release sulfamethazine). I realized that I had underdosed on the kaolin (was using a dog dosage) on Sunday, so on Monday, she also got two doses of 4 ounces each of Kaolin. Some of the suggestions I received privately were: whipworms, which do not always show up in a flotation fecal egg count - needs to be centrifuged, which we didn't do. Would have done that if the sustain didn't work. Clostridium was mentioned. Olivia is up to date on her shots, but clostridium could have caused the upset and was something I'd thought about. I've read that many undiagnosed ailments may be clostridium. I tend to think that the CDT is mostly for tetanus and need to be reminded that it protects against more than tetanus. Irritable bowel syndrome was jokingly suggested, but who knows - maybe sheep do get ibs. This has gone on with Olivia for over three weeks. No other sheep has exhibited anything except normal pellets. Olivia is "cured", but I still can't say for sure just what she had. Sometimes you just got to be satisfied with recovery :-) Linda Where we have received over 9" of rain in the last two days!! www.patchworkfibers.com Registered Jacob Sheep, Angora Rabbits, Handspun Yarn ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ Jacob-list mailing list, sponsored by Swallow Lane Farm & Fiberworks Jacob-list at jacobsheep.com http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/jacob-list No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.138 / Virus Database: 270.6.9/1637 - Release Date: 8/27/2008 7:01 AM ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ Jacob-list mailing list, sponsored by Swallow Lane Farm & Fiberworks Jacob-list at jacobsheep.com http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/jacob-list -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From messen at socket.net Wed Aug 27 21:17:13 2008 From: messen at socket.net (Mark Essen) Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2008 20:17:13 -0500 Subject: [Jacob-list] Fw: Olivia update In-Reply-To: <43F11D63D68E48A08507F31F71ABAD91@steve> References: <43F11D63D68E48A08507F31F71ABAD91@steve> Message-ID: I have also found that pellets are only appropriate show and tell for a very few friends. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rlynde at onramp113.org Thu Aug 28 01:26:27 2008 From: rlynde at onramp113.org (Robin Lynde) Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2008 22:26:27 -0700 Subject: [Jacob-list] Fw: Olivia update References: <43F11D63D68E48A08507F31F71ABAD91@steve> Message-ID: <016a01c908ce$9ef65a00$6401a8c0@your4dacd0ea75> About pellets...I once filled a jar with them and used that as one of those baby shower games--"How many pellets in the jar?" It was actually my annual BBQ / baby lamb shower in the spring. I was also going to play "pin the tail on the lamb" using a drawing of a lamb and a real tail. I chickened out on that one. Robin Lynde Meridian Jacobs Vacaville, CA www.meridianjacobs.com ----- Original Message ----- From: Mark Essen To: Jacob-list at jacobsheep.com Sent: Wednesday, August 27, 2008 6:17 PM Subject: Re: [Jacob-list] Fw: Olivia update I have also found that pellets are only appropriate show and tell for a very few friends. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ Jacob-list mailing list, sponsored by Swallow Lane Farm & Fiberworks Jacob-list at jacobsheep.com http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/jacob-list -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From paintedrockfarm at aol.com Thu Aug 28 06:40:51 2008 From: paintedrockfarm at aol.com (Cheryl Terrano) Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2008 06:40:51 -0400 Subject: [Jacob-list] Fw: Olivia update In-Reply-To: <43F11D63D68E48A08507F31F71ABAD91@steve> References: <43F11D63D68E48A08507F31F71ABAD91@steve> Message-ID: <8CAD711AD1C4A44-BE8-203@FWM-D31.sysops.aol.com> non-animal owning friends Hmm...You mean there are still people out there who fall into this category?!? :) Cheryl in WV http://paintedrockfarm.blogspot.com http://www.paintedrockfarm.com WHEN EVERYTHING THAT CAN BE SHAKEN IS SHAKEN, THE ANCHOR THAT HOLDS IS THE WISDOM OF THE CROSS. (Jason Upton, Key of David Ministries, from the CD 1200 ft below sea level) If you want to see God's power at work, you must get out of the church and into the world. Watch the extravagant lengths which God will go to reveal Himself to people who don't know Him. Then you will learn how truly awesome our God is. (Author Unknown) -----Original Message----- From: Steve and Trish Barrows To: Jacob-list at jacobsheep.com Sent: Wed, 27 Aug 2008 9:02 pm Subject: [Jacob-list] Fw: Olivia update ? ----- Original Message ----- From: Steve and Trish Barrows To: Linda Sent: Wednesday, August 27, 2008 9:01 PM Subject: Re: [Jacob-list] Olivia update Oh no, no no,....I also do the same thing with bunny pellets-just have to remember that my non-animal owning friends don't consider it appropriate mealtime conversation, lol. ? Trish ----- Original Message ----- From: Linda To: Mark Essen ; Jacob-list Sent: Wednesday, August 27, 2008 8:41 PM Subject: Re: [Jacob-list] Olivia update I guess it's a little weird to be getting excited about sheep pellets :-) ? Linda ? www.patchworkfibers.com Registered Jacob Sheep, Angora Rabbits, Handspun YarnEven in ignorance about the problem, we can all still share the joy and excitement or real pellets. Mark ----- Original Message ----- From:Linda To:Jacob-list Sent: Wednesday, August 27, 2008 6:42 PM Subject: [Jacob-list] Olivia update Today Olivia has real pellets - still slightly soft, but close to normal. Monday she received her second round of Sustain (which is a time release sulfamethazine). ?I realized that I had underdosed on the kaolin (was using a dog dosage) on Sunday, so on Monday, she also got two doses of 4 ounces each of Kaolin. ? Some of the suggestions I received privately were: whipworms, which do not always show up in a flotation fecal egg count - needs to be centrifuged, which we didn't do. Would have done that if the sustain didn't work. Clostridium was mentioned. Olivia is up to date on her shots, but clostridium could have caused the upset and was something I'd thought about. I've read that many undiagnosed ailments may be clostridium. I tend to think that the CDT is mostly for tetanus and need to be reminded that it protects against more than tetanus. Irritable bowel syndrome was jokingly suggested, but who knows - maybe sheep do get ibs. This has gone on with Olivia for over three weeks. No other sheep has exhibited anything except normal pellets. Olivia is "cured", but I still can't say for sure just what she had. Sometimes you just got to be satisfied with recovery :-) Linda Where we have received over 9" of rain in the last two days!! ? www.patchworkfibers.com Registered Jacob Sheep, Angora Rabbits, Handspun Yarn ? _______________________________________________ Jacob-list mailing list, sponsored by Swallow Lane Farm & Fiberworks Jacob-list at jacobsheep.com http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/jacob-list No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.138 / Virus Database: 270.6.9/1637 - Release Date: 8/27/2008 7:01 AM _______________________________________________ Jacob-list mailing list, sponsored by Swallow Lane Farm & Fiberworks Jacob-list at jacobsheep.com http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/jacob-list _______________________________________________ Jacob-list mailing list, sponsored by Swallow Lane Farm & Fiberworks Jacob-list at jacobsheep.com http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/jacob-list -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From patchworkfibers at alltel.net Thu Aug 28 06:49:42 2008 From: patchworkfibers at alltel.net (Linda) Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2008 06:49:42 -0400 Subject: [Jacob-list] Fw: Olivia update In-Reply-To: <016a01c908ce$9ef65a00$6401a8c0@your4dacd0ea75> Message-ID: <200882864942.579941@Linda-PC> Now that's a baby shower that would be fun! Thanks for the laugh. Linda www.patchworkfibers.com Registered Jacob Sheep, Angora Rabbits, Handspun Yarn About pellets...I once filled a jar with them and used that as one of those baby shower games--"How many pellets in the jar?" It was actually my annual BBQ / baby lamb shower in the spring. I was also going to play "pin the tail on the lamb" using a drawing of a lamb and a real tail. I chickened out on that one. Robin Lynde Meridian Jacobs Vacaville, CA www.meridianjacobs.com ----- Original Message ----- From:Mark Essen To:Jacob-list at jacobsheep.com Sent: Wednesday, August 27, 2008 6:17 PM Subject: Re: [Jacob-list] Fw: Olivia update I have also found that pellets are only appropriate show and tell for a very few friends.  _______________________________________________ Jacob-list mailing list, sponsored by Swallow Lane Farm & Fiberworks Jacob-list at jacobsheep.com http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/jacob-list -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From hannah at knoxfarms.com Thu Aug 28 08:54:51 2008 From: hannah at knoxfarms.com (Hannah) Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2008 08:54:51 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [Jacob-list] Olivia update In-Reply-To: <2008827194248.918930@Linda-PC> References: <2008827194248.918930@Linda-PC> Message-ID: <54005.64.40.83.53.1219928091.squirrel@kit.rc4systems.net> Hello, I'm new to Jacob sheep (I have a ram and a ewe), but I have had dairy goats for the better half of my life. For the goats we use CDT, but still have a very few (usually a weaker one) animals get clostridium. For those goats we have an excellent 'cure' which was recommended by former NC state vet and I'm sure it would work on a sheep. It is 10ml Clostridium antitoxin (not toxoid) orally and 10ml subQ one time. Then treat the animal with PenG for 5 days. Usually a couple of hours after the antitoxin they are all rosey again! I'm sorry you've been having trouble and I hope shes better for sure! Hk > Today Olivia has real pellets - still slightly soft, but close to normal. > Monday she received her second round of Sustain (which is a time release > sulfamethazine). I realized that I had underdosed on the kaolin (was > using a dog dosage) on Sunday, so on Monday, she also got two doses of 4 > ounces each of Kaolin. > > Some of the suggestions I received privately were: > whipworms, which do not always show up in a flotation fecal egg count - > needs to be centrifuged, which we didn't do. Would have done that if the > sustain didn't work. > Clostridium was mentioned. Olivia is up to date on her shots, but > clostridium could have caused the upset and was something I'd thought > about. I've read that many undiagnosed ailments may be clostridium. I tend > to think that the CDT is mostly for tetanus and need to be reminded that > it protects against more than tetanus. > Irritable bowel syndrome was jokingly suggested, but who knows - maybe > sheep do get ibs. > > This has gone on with Olivia for over three weeks. No other sheep has > exhibited anything except normal pellets. Olivia is "cured", but I still > can't say for sure just what she had. Sometimes you just got to be > satisfied with recovery :-) > > Linda > Where we have received over 9" of rain in the last two days!! > > > > > > > www.patchworkfibers.com > Registered Jacob Sheep, Angora Rabbits, Handspun Yarn > _______________________________________________ > Jacob-list mailing list, sponsored by Swallow Lane Farm & Fiberworks > Jacob-list at jacobsheep.com > http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/jacob-list > -- Knox Farms All Natural Goat's Milk Soaps Heritage Breed Livestock and Some That We Just Like Say NO! to National Animal ID System! http://nonais.org Member Friends of Traditional Farming http://fotfarm.org Blog blog.knoxfarms.com From aztreaz at earthlink.net Thu Aug 28 13:18:06 2008 From: aztreaz at earthlink.net (ARTHUR PARTRIDGE) Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2008 10:18:06 -0700 Subject: [Jacob-list] Ewe Doo Message-ID: <410-22008842817186937@earthlink.net> --Previous Message-- >About pellets...I once filled a jar with them and used that as one of those baby shower games--"How many pellets in the jar?" >It was actually my annual BBQ / baby lamb shower in the spring. ======== That's a good use! Then there is the lady who packaged the pellets, sold them at her Farmers Market and called the product "Ewe Doo", a fertilizer for indoor plants. Maybe someone sells them online, I haven't checked. We have plenty at our farm. Cathy Moscow, Idaho From patchworkfibers at alltel.net Thu Aug 28 13:32:34 2008 From: patchworkfibers at alltel.net (Linda) Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2008 13:32:34 -0400 Subject: [Jacob-list] Olivia update In-Reply-To: <54005.64.40.83.53.1219928091.squirrel@kit.rc4systems.net> Message-ID: <2008828133234.519798@Linda-PC> Thanks. That was suggested by Lanette. I didn't have a reason to try it as Olivia seems recovered, but it's certainly something I didn't know and am glad to know now. One of my goat friends told me that she'd taken a doe to UGA for a necropsy and UGA diagnosed clostridium, even though the doe had been vaccinated. So it is definitely something to consider. Linda www.patchworkfibers.com Registered Jacob Sheep, Angora Rabbits, Handspun Yarn Hello, I'm new to Jacob sheep (I have a ram and a ewe), but I have had dairy goats for the better half of my life. For the goats we use CDT, but still have a very few (usually a weaker one) animals get clostridium. For those goats we have an excellent 'cure' which was recommended by former NC state vet and I'm sure it would work on a sheep. It is 10ml Clostridium antitoxin (not toxoid) orally and 10ml subQ one time. Then treat the animal with PenG for 5 days. Usually a couple of hours after the antitoxin they are all rosey again! I'm sorry you've been having trouble and I hope shes better for sure! Hk > Today Olivia has real pellets - still slightly soft, but close to normal. > Monday she received her second round of Sustain (which is a time release > sulfamethazine). I realized that I had underdosed on the kaolin (was > using a dog dosage) on Sunday, so on Monday, she also got two doses of 4 > ounces each of Kaolin. > > Some of the suggestions I received privately were: > whipworms, which do not always show up in a flotation fecal egg count - > needs to be centrifuged, which we didn't do. Would have done that if the > sustain didn't work. > Clostridium was mentioned. Olivia is up to date on her shots, but > clostridium could have caused the upset and was something I'd thought > about. I've read that many undiagnosed ailments may be clostridium. I tend > to think that the CDT is mostly for tetanus and need to be reminded that > it protects against more than tetanus. > Irritable bowel syndrome was jokingly suggested, but who knows - maybe > sheep do get ibs. > > This has gone on with Olivia for over three weeks. No other sheep has > exhibited anything except normal pellets. Olivia is "cured", but I still > can't say for sure just what she had. Sometimes you just got to be > satisfied with recovery :-) > > Linda > Where we have received over 9" of rain in the last two days!! > > > > > > > www.patchworkfibers.com > Registered Jacob Sheep, Angora Rabbits, Handspun Yarn > _______________________________________________ > Jacob-list mailing list, sponsored by Swallow Lane Farm & Fiberworks > Jacob-list at jacobsheep.com > http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/jacob-list > -- Knox Farms All Natural Goat's Milk Soaps Heritage Breed Livestock and Some That We Just Like Say NO! to National Animal ID System! http://nonais.org Member Friends of Traditional Farming http://fotfarm.org Blog blog.knoxfarms.com _______________________________________________ Jacob-list mailing list, sponsored by Swallow Lane Farm & Fiberworks Jacob-list at jacobsheep.com http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/jacob-list -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From hannah at knoxfarms.com Thu Aug 28 13:38:07 2008 From: hannah at knoxfarms.com (Hannah) Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2008 13:38:07 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [Jacob-list] Ewe Doo In-Reply-To: <410-22008842817186937@earthlink.net> References: <410-22008842817186937@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <60749.64.40.83.53.1219945087.squirrel@kit.rc4systems.net> There's a lady at my FM who has a pet wether named Cuck Norris. She collects his poo and sells it calling it "Chuck Norris' Kung-Fu Poo" LOL > --Previous Message-- >>About pellets...I once filled a jar with them and used that as one of > those baby shower games--"How many pellets in the jar?" >>It was actually my annual BBQ / baby lamb shower in the spring. > ======== > That's a good use! Then there is the lady who packaged the pellets, sold > them at her Farmers Market and called the product "Ewe Doo", a fertilizer > for indoor plants. Maybe someone sells them online, I haven't checked. > We have plenty at our farm. > > Cathy > Moscow, Idaho > > > _______________________________________________ > Jacob-list mailing list, sponsored by Swallow Lane Farm & Fiberworks > Jacob-list at jacobsheep.com > http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/jacob-list > -- Knox Farms All Natural Goat's Milk Soaps Heritage Breed Livestock and Some That We Just Like Say NO! to National Animal ID System! http://nonais.org Member Friends of Traditional Farming http://fotfarm.org Blog blog.knoxfarms.com From aztreaz at earthlink.net Thu Aug 28 14:36:06 2008 From: aztreaz at earthlink.net (ARTHUR PARTRIDGE) Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2008 11:36:06 -0700 Subject: [Jacob-list] Ewe Doo Message-ID: <410-22008842818366140@earthlink.net> I can't believe it! Someone IS selling this online! See: > Melrose Plantation Ewe-Doo:. Organic, highly nutritious black gold for your roses. Higher content than horse, cattle and poultry manure. and odorless, too! $1 per pound ... http://www.melroseplantation.com/gifts.html - 8k > Cathy Moscow, Idaho From lynettefrick at gmail.com Thu Aug 28 16:29:44 2008 From: lynettefrick at gmail.com (Lynette Frick) Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2008 13:29:44 -0700 Subject: [Jacob-list] Off farm Full time job- Lambing time management??? Message-ID: <22872c750808281329t47dddfdbm60a11eb38e6257c0@mail.gmail.com> Ok, this may sound like a strange question, but how do those of you who work completely off the farm manage lambing time? Oh, and come to think about it, breeding season too (I think I remember someone saying they only have the ram in for two weeks)? I'm just curious, as this may be me next spring... so any hints and tips would truly help. Thank you in advance, Lynette Frick IDEAL FARM Jacob Sheep www.idealjacobsheep.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From hannah at knoxfarms.com Thu Aug 28 18:05:04 2008 From: hannah at knoxfarms.com (Hannah) Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2008 18:05:04 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [Jacob-list] Olivia update In-Reply-To: <2008828133234.519798@Linda-PC> References: <54005.64.40.83.53.1219928091.squirrel@kit.rc4systems.net> <2008828133234.519798@Linda-PC> Message-ID: <59389.64.40.83.53.1219961104.squirrel@kit.rc4systems.net> Oh, thats too bad. I hate to hear it when animals die from a sickness that is so easy to ammend, but nobody that I've told has ever heard of the remedy. I'm glad Olivia is doing better. Everyone, I did not even think to introduce myself. I have some dairy goats for pets and family use. I used to have ALOT of goats and have re-filled the pasture space with Black Welsh Mt. and Jacob sheep. This Spring will be my first lambing and shearing. I do have several questions... When you shear your sheep do you send it to a custom mill to be washed if you are going to hand spin? Do you also send it to a mill to be spun? If so, which one? My sheep mentor told me about MacAusland's and they seem to have really good prices. What is a good price to ask for raw, unwashed wool? What is the Cydectin dose for sheep? What can you use to delouse sheep? Do you vaccinate and trim hooves once or twice a year? I know that I will get a differing answer from everyone who responds, but I am open to new ideas on this new adventure! Thanks! Hk > Thanks. That was suggested by Lanette. I didn't have a reason to try it as > Olivia seems recovered, but it's certainly something I didn't know and am > glad to know now. One of my goat friends told me that she'd taken a doe > to UGA for a necropsy and UGA diagnosed clostridium, even though the doe > had been vaccinated. So it is definitely something to consider. > > Linda > > www.patchworkfibers.com > Registered Jacob Sheep, Angora Rabbits, Handspun Yarn > > Hello, > > I'm new to Jacob sheep (I have a ram and a ewe), but I have had dairy > goats for the better half of my life. For the goats we use CDT, but still > have a very few (usually a weaker one) animals get clostridium. For those > goats we have an excellent 'cure' which was recommended by former NC state > vet and I'm sure it would work on a sheep. It is 10ml Clostridium > antitoxin (not toxoid) orally and 10ml subQ one time. Then treat the > animal with PenG for 5 days. Usually a couple of hours after the > antitoxin they are all rosey again! > > I'm sorry you've been having trouble and I hope shes better for sure! > > Hk > > >> Today Olivia has real pellets - still slightly soft, but close to >> normal. >> Monday she received her second round of Sustain (which is a time release >> sulfamethazine). I realized that I had underdosed on the kaolin (was >> using a dog dosage) on Sunday, so on Monday, she also got two doses of 4 >> ounces each of Kaolin. >> >> Some of the suggestions I received privately were: >> whipworms, which do not always show up in a flotation fecal egg count - >> needs to be centrifuged, which we didn't do. Would have done that if the >> sustain didn't work. >> Clostridium was mentioned. Olivia is up to date on her shots, but >> clostridium could have caused the upset and was something I'd thought >> about. I've read that many undiagnosed ailments may be clostridium. I >> tend >> to think that the CDT is mostly for tetanus and need to be reminded that >> it protects against more than tetanus. >> Irritable bowel syndrome was jokingly suggested, but who knows - maybe >> sheep do get ibs. >> >> This has gone on with Olivia for over three weeks. No other sheep has >> exhibited anything except normal pellets. Olivia is "cured", but I still >> can't say for sure just what she had. Sometimes you just got to be >> satisfied with recovery :-) >> >> Linda >> Where we have received over 9" of rain in the last two days!! >> >> >> >> >> >> >> www.patchworkfibers.com >> Registered Jacob Sheep, Angora Rabbits, Handspun Yarn >> _______________________________________________ >> Jacob-list mailing list, sponsored by Swallow Lane Farm & Fiberworks >> Jacob-list at jacobsheep.com >> http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/jacob-list >> > > > -- > Knox Farms > All Natural Goat's Milk Soaps > Heritage Breed Livestock and Some That We Just Like > Say NO! to National Animal ID System! > http://nonais.org > > Member Friends of Traditional Farming > http://fotfarm.org > > Blog > blog.knoxfarms.com > > _______________________________________________ > Jacob-list mailing list, sponsored by Swallow Lane Farm & Fiberworks > Jacob-list at jacobsheep.com > http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/jacob-list > -- Knox Farms All Natural Goat's Milk Soaps Heritage Breed Livestock and Some That We Just Like Say NO! to National Animal ID System! http://nonais.org Member Friends of Traditional Farming http://fotfarm.org Blog blog.knoxfarms.com From patchworkfibers at alltel.net Thu Aug 28 18:20:50 2008 From: patchworkfibers at alltel.net (Linda) Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2008 18:20:50 -0400 Subject: [Jacob-list] Ewe Doo In-Reply-To: <410-22008842818366140@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <2008828182050.076837@Linda-PC> The Darling Doo Doll Kits look like hot items - perfect for those people you just can't figure out what to give A burlap bag full of well rotted manure sculpted into a doll with hay string is something different, anyway. Great for those "secret Santa" office gifts. Linda www.patchworkfibers.com Registered Jacob Sheep, Angora Rabbits, Handspun Yarn I can't believe it! Someone IS selling this online! See: > Melrose Plantation Ewe-Doo:. Organic, highly nutritious black gold for your roses. Higher content than horse, cattle and poultry manure. and odorless, too! $1 per pound ... http://www.melroseplantation.com/gifts.html - 8k > Cathy Moscow, Idaho _______________________________________________ Jacob-list mailing list, sponsored by Swallow Lane Farm & Fiberworks Jacob-list at jacobsheep.com http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/jacob-list -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From snielsen at orednet.org Thu Aug 28 19:14:55 2008 From: snielsen at orednet.org (snielsen at orednet.org) Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2008 16:14:55 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Jacob-list] Off farm Full time job- Lambing time management??? In-Reply-To: <22872c750808281329t47dddfdbm60a11eb38e6257c0@mail.gmail.com> References: <22872c750808281329t47dddfdbm60a11eb38e6257c0@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <51715.198.177.27.27.1219965295.squirrel@shemp.dialoregon.net> On Thu, August 28, 2008 1:29 pm, Lynette Frick said: > Ok, this may sound like a strange question, but how do those of you who > work > completely off the farm manage lambing time? With v-e-r-y little sleep. Most of ours choose to lamb during what I would like to think of as sleeping time, usually between about 1 am and dawn. So I generally hope everyone bred in the first cycle and it will be over soon. Susan -- See our farm blog at http://skepweaver.wordpress.com/ -- Peace also takes courage. From spotted_sheep at bluefrog.com Thu Aug 28 19:18:23 2008 From: spotted_sheep at bluefrog.com (spotted_sheep at bluefrog.com) Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2008 16:18:23 -0700 Subject: [Jacob-list] Jacob Sheep For Sale Message-ID: <20080828161823.A0EB4E5@resin14.mta.everyone.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From aztreaz at earthlink.net Thu Aug 28 19:26:34 2008 From: aztreaz at earthlink.net (ARTHUR PARTRIDGE) Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2008 16:26:34 -0700 Subject: [Jacob-list] Off farm Full time job- Lambing time Message-ID: <410-220088428232634828@earthlink.net> --Previous Message-- >Ok, this may sound like a strange question, but how do those of you who work >completely off the farm manage lambing time? Oh, and come to think about it, >breeding season too (I think I remember someone saying they only have the >ram in for two weeks)? I'm just curious, as this may be me next spring... so >any hints and tips would truly help. >Thank you in advance, >Lynette Frick ========= Well, if you are really dedicated....this is how some friends of ours do it. Work on getting all the ewes to cycle at the same time so they ALL become pregnant at the same time. Then figure out when the lambs are due and take that time for your two-week vacation. It works!! Sure enough, 90% of the lambs are born during these two weeks in the spring. I don't know how exactly they get the ewes to get pregnant at the same time, but it can be done. Maybe they keep the ram away and then use a "teaser ram" to get the ewes to cycle together. Yes, I think it involves a teaser ram, but perhaps a cloth with the ram's scent will do. Google "teaser ram" on the Internet for more info. I guess our friends don't take a vacation to Disney Land or the lake or where ever, they are at the farm lambing instead. Actually, they did that for many years, but last year the wife quit her job to work out of the home so she is around during lambing time. Good Luck! Cathy From marytonkin at comcast.net Thu Aug 28 19:32:14 2008 From: marytonkin at comcast.net (marytonkin at comcast.net) Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2008 23:32:14 +0000 Subject: [Jacob-list] Off farm Full time job Message-ID: <082820082332.23159.48B7357E0005486E00005A77220588644202070502019B979D0E03@comcast.net> Lynette Both my husband and I work full time off the farm and we have the same concern. We mark our rams with color tinted RADDLE POWDER. We wouldn't live without it. When we mark the ram we know exactly what dates the ewes are do to lamb and mark that on the calendar. We keep the ram in through two cycles just to make sure they took and every 17-18 days change color of the RADDLE POWDER. I works like a charm!!! Two days before their due date we start to check on them every 4-6 hours and if they are in labor I hang around for awhile to view the birth. I got lucky last year and only missed 2 births. This year I am installing an in-expensive barn camera to keep better track of the last couple days of pregnancy. Hope this helps........ -- Mary Tonkin Shadow Mountain Jacobs Buckley, Washington www.shadowmountainjacobs.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From info at brenalanfarm.com Thu Aug 28 20:14:21 2008 From: info at brenalanfarm.com (Brenalan Farm) Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2008 17:14:21 -0700 Subject: [Jacob-list] Ewe Doo Message-ID: <07fd01c9096c$2fd647e0$0a00a8c0@searlecece725f> Our local store has sold several quarts of dried llama poop for me, in nice jars with ribbon and cute label, and darling display case, for EIGHT DOLLARS EACH! I don't get all 8, but hey- or should I say hay? It helps pay the feed bill. I think the real motivator for the buyer is a chance to give gag gifts... I bet some of mine are regifted eternally and never used. And our verbal sales pitch is "The perfect gift for people who give YOU s***." Start packaging now- Christmas seems to be the real season for sales. Being cautious of idiots w/lawyers... I did put a lot of warnings on the label, including not to reuse the jar for food, wash hands after handling, not for use by children... And if anyone complains about the price, we offer them a "hot" deal if they show up at our place with their own bucket and shovel. Brenda -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From hannah at knoxfarms.com Fri Aug 29 07:26:08 2008 From: hannah at knoxfarms.com (Hannah) Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2008 07:26:08 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [Jacob-list] Off farm Full time job- Lambing time management??? In-Reply-To: <51715.198.177.27.27.1219965295.squirrel@shemp.dialoregon.net> References: <22872c750808281329t47dddfdbm60a11eb38e6257c0@mail.gmail.com> <51715.198.177.27.27.1219965295.squirrel@shemp.dialoregon.net> Message-ID: <64305.64.40.83.53.1220009168.squirrel@kit.rc4systems.net> I've heard that you can feed animals at a certain time of day to manipulate the time at which they give birth. I've found, though that it really depends on the animal. Some are just destined to go at 3AM... > On Thu, August 28, 2008 1:29 pm, Lynette Frick said: >> Ok, this may sound like a strange question, but how do those of you who >> work >> completely off the farm manage lambing time? > > With v-e-r-y little sleep. > > Most of ours choose to lamb during what I would like to think of as > sleeping time, usually between about 1 am and dawn. So I generally hope > everyone bred in the first cycle and it will be over soon. > > Susan > > -- > See our farm blog at http://skepweaver.wordpress.com/ > -- > Peace also takes courage. > > _______________________________________________ > Jacob-list mailing list, sponsored by Swallow Lane Farm & Fiberworks > Jacob-list at jacobsheep.com > http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/jacob-list > -- Knox Farms All Natural Goat's Milk Soaps Heritage Breed Livestock and Some That We Just Like Say NO! to National Animal ID System! http://nonais.org Member Friends of Traditional Farming http://fotfarm.org Blog blog.knoxfarms.com From patchworkfibers at alltel.net Fri Aug 29 07:48:24 2008 From: patchworkfibers at alltel.net (Linda) Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2008 07:48:24 -0400 Subject: [Jacob-list] Off farm Full time job- Lambing time management??? In-Reply-To: <64305.64.40.83.53.1220009168.squirrel@kit.rc4systems.net> Message-ID: <200882974824.314025@Linda-PC> I've heard that too, but I've been feeding my sheep at the same time every day for 15 years and they still lamb at different times. Although MOST of mine do lamb politely during day light hours, so maybe feeding times does affect them somewhat. Definitely not 100%,though. I read on a Shetland site somewhere that if they aren't in labor (or showing signs of impending labor) by 11pm, they will probably not lamb until first light. Around here, that has been true. Whether or not all the ewes catch in only two/three weeks here with the rams depends on when I put them together. If I wait until mid or late October, everyone catches by the second cycle and most on the first cycle. Maybe because of our Georgia hot summers, the catch rate is only about 60% in mid September. Linda www.patchworkfibers.com Registered Jacob Sheep, Angora Rabbits, Handspun Yarn I've heard that you can feed animals at a certain time of day to manipulate the time at which they give birth. I've found, though that it really depends on the animal. Some are just destined to go at 3AM... > On Thu, August 28, 2008 1:29 pm, Lynette Frick said: >> Ok, this may sound like a strange question, but how do those of you who >> work >> completely off the farm manage lambing time? > > With v-e-r-y little sleep. > > Most of ours choose to lamb during what I would like to think of as > sleeping time, usually between about 1 am and dawn. So I generally hope > everyone bred in the first cycle and it will be over soon. > > Susan > > -- > See our farm blog at http://skepweaver.wordpress.com/ > -- > Peace also takes courage. list -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From lambfarm at sover.net Fri Aug 29 08:14:07 2008 From: lambfarm at sover.net (Betty Berlenbach) Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2008 08:14:07 -0400 Subject: [Jacob-list] breeding, etc. Message-ID: <003f01c909d0$c3b18b50$84a772d8@USER5AFE0954BF> I put mine in on Nov. 1, up here in chilly Vermont, and in 13 years, all but six have taken in the 18 days I leave them together. I agree that if not showing signs by 9 p.m., actually, or 10 (I can't stay up til 11 on a regular basis) they are not likely to have babies until first light, which around here is 7 in winter. I check them at 9, then go to bed, and unless wakened from a dead sleep by a hunch, they have privacy to have their lambs in peace until 7 a.m. when I start my day time checks. The ones who basically aren't thrilled with people, tend to have them in the night on their own. I respect that. They are adults and get to choose. If they want help, they need only make known to me that they are in labor and I"ll stay. If they give me a dirty look when I pull up a chair outside their lambing pen, I leave and give them privacy. When they come over to me and blat in my face, I figure they are saying, "Get in here and get this d....lamb out now!" and I go in. Generally in that situation, they stand quietly while I check them out. I've had to assist about 6 times in those years, and most of them were when requested by the ewes. Betty, in Vermont,who now has a blog, thanks to help from Walter and Linda. See Betty's blog at http://sheepwoman.wordpress.com. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: