[Jacob-list] LGDs

Thu Aug 3 14:35:52 EDT 2006

We've had Danny-Boy for over five years. He wants to mount the rams  
in the Fall. For the first 3 or 4 years, we had no problems with him  
in a pasture with the ewes, but he would bother the ram when we put  
him in for breeding. The ram would promptly beat him about the legs  
and put Danny-Boy in his place. Last year, we left him in with the  
ram lambs a little too long and he smothered one of them. Totally, my  
fault, I saw the behavior starting and knew I should move the ram  
lambs, but they were in an accessible pasture and I was working with  
a couple of them to take them to a Fall show and I ended up taking  
one less to show than I had planned on.
Debbie

On Aug 2, 2006, at 9:46 AM, neeets at netscape.net wrote:

>  Dear debbie,
>
> You said you use an intact male as a guard llama, how long have you  
> had him and be very cautious when doing this.  An intact male will  
> try to mount the flock he is guarding.  I have two gelded males and  
> have gotten rid of packs... I know they would not be a bear killer  
> but since her we have actually had less fowl turn up missing.  My  
> llamas who normally roam the 20 acres were actually in the  
> backyard, I shut the big gate and I heard some dogs on the back 5  
> they were intent on listening, when I went in to get the riffle I  
> came back they had hoped the fence.., something I did not know they  
> would do and the dogs were gone.. I went back to tell hubby came  
> out and could not find the Llamas they had gone to the barn where  
> they never are... to check on the goats and sheep. lol lovem even  
> if something does happen it was better than the dog I had gotten to  
> guard.... lol
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Debbie Bennett <dbennet954 at earthlink.net>
> To: Cathy Robinson <perfectspot at blueridge.net>
> Cc: Jacob List <jacob-list at jacobsheep.com>
> Sent: Wed, 2 Aug 2006 09:31:18 -0700
> Subject: Re: [Jacob-list] LGDs
>
> I don't agree with some of the points brought up regarding llamas -  
> I read of a study of llama effectiveness that stated that one llama  
> can guard a certain number of acres (don't remember how many) for  
> two to three years and then you needed to add another llama. The  
> llamas don't kill off the predators, just keep them at bay, so the  
> predators continue to breed and after a few years can overpower one  
> llama. We are fortunate to have several hunters in our area that  
> keep the predator population under control (for instance, last  
> year, a certain bear was getting bold and now he is one neighbor's  
> new rug). My experience has been...
>>
>> I have spoken with several people that use llamas as guardians and  
>> swear by their efficiency, but after reading the comments on that  
>> topic this week from people involved with both LGD's and llamas  
>> (one was with llama rescue), I am now rethinking the issue for  
>> us.  Here are some of the points taken from those discussions.   
>> These are not my personal thoughts; I am merely passing  
>> information which those of you who have (and like) your llamas may  
>> not agree with.
>> Llamas should be thought of as a sentry rather than guard.  They  
>> will alert and even rush to the fenceline if faced with a threat,  
>> but are not capable of much more.
> I have seen my llamas stomp dogs. They have chased off other  
> predators (?). I have heard of them chasing off bears. My llama  
> alerts the sheep, I usually don't hear him, and they gather behind  
> him while he faces off to the "threat". My neighbor uses two llamas  
> to a pasture and said, she heard a pack of coyotes one night and  
> went out with the gun to see one llama gather the herd near the  
> barn while the other three chased the coyotes across the creek at  
> the far end of her pastures and then patrolled the fence line until  
> the coyotes left.
>> Llamas would be most effective in guarding against weasels, foxes  
>> and lone coyotes.  They are not effective against  loose dogs (one  
>> or in packs), wolves, bears, etc.
> Something has been getting my chickens right under the llamas' nose  
> - he doesn't seem to care about foxes, raccoons, skunks, etc.
>>
>> A llama can be brought down by a single dog with that intent
>> The number one killer of llamas is loose dogs.
> I'm not surprised by this, but also note, most people use gelded  
> males with their fighting teeth removed (to prevent them from  
> hurting each other when you have more than one gelding guarding). I  
> use a breeding male with his fighting teeth intact and females in a  
> separate pasture.
>> One lady told of her personal experience of having to help her  
>> neighbor "clean up" after two neighborhood dogs got into the area  
>> where her llamas were.  In less than an hour, two were killed,  
>> another was castrated and a fourth had serious leg injuries.
>> Most felt that llamas were most effective if paired with a dog (or  
>> gun), and that the fencing should be the primary obstacle, as  
>> Linda mentioned yesterday.
>> What works effectively for one farm, may not work for another.   
>> Each should evaluate their threat potential and  their personal  
>> circumstances.  If you are home all day and can respond to your  
>> llama's alert with a gun or other action, then that may be very  
>> effective for you.  If you are gone much of the day and at work  
>> off the farm, then whatever is left "in charge" of the flock  
>> should be capable of doing the job to the best of its ability.
> I agree, however, most predators hunt at night.
> Debbie Bennett
> Feral Fibre Farm
>>
>> On a lighter note, there was a discussion here earlier this week  
>> about chickens and sheep.  We do have chickens and they free range  
>> and go anywhere they want to go....over fences, through fences, in  
>> and out of the woods, etc. We also have a resident fox recently  
>> coming for a chicken dinner now and then.  I have been in the  
>> sheep yard twice when the fox was within sighting distance and the  
>> first to sound the alarm (a few seconds ahead of the dogs) were  
>> our two guineas.  The dogs were at the fence instantly!  Quite an  
>> effective pairing for guarding...guineas and Pyrs!
>>
>> Cathy
>> Perfect Spot Farm
>> http://www.patchworkfibers.com/perfectspotfarm.html
>>
>> Sharon Hill wrote:
>>> OK, I will put in my 2 cents.  I have had a Great
>>> Pyrennes since the year 2000 and have never lost a
>>> sheep to a predator.  My neighbor has cows and he
>>> loses several calves every year to coyotes.
>>>
>>
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> =
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