From hettick.1 at osu.edu Wed Nov 1 08:58:17 2000 From: hettick.1 at osu.edu (Heather Hettick) Date: Wed Feb 2 07:52:28 2005 Subject: [Jacob-list] Scrapie & Primitive Sheep In-Reply-To: <20001031212606.563A53C186@pairlist.net> Message-ID: Does anyone have actual test results to determine whether Jacobs are carrying the susceptible genotypes or the genotypes for resistance? The article sounds like it was talking mainly about the northern short tailed sheep breeds and may not apply to Jacobs in particular. I am in the process of enrolling for the Voluntary Scrapie Program, but they don't require the genotype testing, just monitoring and permanent identification. I had our vet test the flock for OPP since he had come to do a farm check, but didn't spring for additional genetic testing. Now I sort of wish I had. Heather Hettick Moonstruck Jacob Sheep Creston, OH hettick.1@osu.edu -----Original Message----- From: jacob-list-admin@jacobsheep.com [mailto:jacob-list-admin@jacobsheep.com]On Behalf Of sbennett Sent: Tuesday, October 31, 2000 4:14 PM To: jacob-list@jacobsheep.com Subject: [Jacob-list] Scrapie & Primitive Sheep That was an interesting article. My take on it: Jacobs, being a primitive breed, may not be genotypically scrapie resistant. Ms. Morris's concern seems to be that people will choose NOT to continue breeding primitive sheep at the very least and at worst eradicate them. She stresses that because of the AA RR QQ genotype these primitive breeds contain that they are less susceptible to oxidative stress, diseases, and certain plant toxins and agrochemicals. This suggests to me that the issue is more complex than one gene pair. She also mentions there may be a link between the AA RR QQ gentotype and color. If we were to choose only scrapie resistant animals would we be choosing to breed only white sheep? What other problems might we see in the future? More research definitely needs to be done. I would prefer monitoring (by joining the Volunteer Scrapie Eradication Program). I will be closing my flock and removing the couple of Suffolk ewes we bought for market lamb projects to protect my primitive sheep from possible exposure. Debbie Bennett Feral Fibre _______________________________________________ Jacob-list mailing list Jacob-list@jacobsheep.com http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/jacob-list From runzicker at erols.com Wed Nov 1 12:10:34 2000 From: runzicker at erols.com (Royal D. Unzicker) Date: Wed Feb 2 07:52:28 2005 Subject: [Jacob-list] Geneotype testing Message-ID: <3A004E8A.398A@erols.com> Hi Heather and Jacob Breeders, Last year I had two Jacob rams and one Tunis ram gneotype tested to see how susceptible they may be to Scrapies. The Tunis was QR and the two Jacob rams were both RR. RR and QR are considered resistant to Scrapies according to information from my county agent. His information also said, "in the US all positives for Scrapies have been QQ at codon 171. Around the world, there have been 6 QR Suffolks which have developed Scrapies. There was also 1 RR Suffolk in Japan which developed the disease." If this info was in the article you referred to, sorry to repeat. I did not see the article. Royal From millarjs at clarityconnect.com Thu Nov 2 17:57:32 2000 From: millarjs at clarityconnect.com (Jim Millar) Date: Wed Feb 2 07:52:28 2005 Subject: [Jacob-list] selling pelts Message-ID: <002a01c04520$4a147aa0$314bfea9@oemcomputer> Hello all, I decided to have two lamb skins tanned, hoping to sell them. I was a little surprised at the cost. Can anyone tell me if these prices are in line? My local taxidermist charges $25 each for skinning. He sends it off to be tanned which will cost about $108 each. It will cost me about $266 to get two pelts finished. Now, my second question is has anyone sold these? If so how much do they go for? Can I make any money?!! Thanks for your advise, Pam Millar ZuZu's Petals Farm Spencer, NY -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.pairlist.net/pipermail/jacob-list/attachments/20001102/f9ca6514/attachment.html From wolfpen at rabun.net Fri Nov 3 09:12:34 2000 From: wolfpen at rabun.net (linda) Date: Wed Feb 2 07:52:28 2005 Subject: [Jacob-list] selling pelts In-Reply-To: <002a01c04520$4a147aa0$314bfea9@oemcomputer> Message-ID: <200011031415.JAA19559@mail> I'd be interested in hearing the replies to this post. I was planning on getting some pelts tanned this year, but not at those prices. I'm kinda curious as to why the taxidermist has to take the pelt off. Either we do it when we butcher at home or the butcher does it when we take them out. Do you have to haul the carcass to the taxidermist and then haul it somewhere else for processing the meat? Paul - how did the bran, etc tanning come out? I may have to give home tanning a try. I've done rabbit hides, but haven't felt like tackling a sheep hide. Linda On Thu, 2 Nov 2000 17:57:32 -0500, Jim Millar wrote: > Hello all, > I decided to have two lamb skins tanned, hoping to sell them. I was a little surprised at >the cost. Can anyone tell me if these prices are in line? My local taxidermist charges $25 >each for skinning. He sends it off to be tanned which will cost about $108 each. It will >cost me about $266 to get two pelts finished. > > Now, my second question is has anyone sold these? If so how much do they go for? Can I >make any money?!! Thanks for your advise, > > Pam Millar > ZuZu's Petals Farm > Spencer, NY > www.PatchworkFibers.com Registered Jacob Sheep From oberlef at desupernet.net Fri Nov 3 09:14:02 2000 From: oberlef at desupernet.net (dave & katrina) Date: Wed Feb 2 07:52:28 2005 Subject: [Jacob-list] web pages Message-ID: <000201c045a2$b5e0c900$d7212940@dl1009203> If anyone is interested in checking it out, we added a new page to our site. Just click on the highlighted address: http://wwwfac.wmdc.edu/HTMLpages/Graduate/TI/pages/lefever/whatsnew.htm Katrina & Dave Lefever Chicory Lane Farm Hanover, PA -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.pairlist.net/pipermail/jacob-list/attachments/20001103/24f090cb/attachment.htm From melanie.boxall at sympatico.ca Fri Nov 3 09:38:51 2000 From: melanie.boxall at sympatico.ca (Chovhani) Date: Wed Feb 2 07:52:28 2005 Subject: [Jacob-list] selling pelts References: <200011031415.JAA19559@mail> Message-ID: <057001c045a3$c9fd9980$154bacce@Melanie> If you guys can give me a couple of days....my neighbour has offered to teach me how to tan a pelt we will be receiving back from the butcher next week. I'll happily pass on the info. Melanie http://www.geocities.com/onionperogie ----- Original Message ----- From: linda To: ; Sent: Friday, November 03, 2000 9:12 AM Subject: Re: [Jacob-list] selling pelts I'd be interested in hearing the replies to this post. I was planning on getting some pelts tanned this year, but not at those prices. I'm kinda curious as to why the taxidermist has to take the pelt off. Either we do it when we butcher at home or the butcher does it when we take them out. Do you have to haul the carcass to the taxidermist and then haul it somewhere else for processing the meat? Paul - how did the bran, etc tanning come out? I may have to give home tanning a try. I've done rabbit hides, but haven't felt like tackling a sheep hide. Linda On Thu, 2 Nov 2000 17:57:32 -0500, Jim Millar wrote: > Hello all, > I decided to have two lamb skins tanned, hoping to sell them. I was a little surprised at >the cost. Can anyone tell me if these prices are in line? My local taxidermist charges $25 >each for skinning. He sends it off to be tanned which will cost about $108 each. It will >cost me about $266 to get two pelts finished. > > Now, my second question is has anyone sold these? If so how much do they go for? Can I >make any money?!! Thanks for your advise, > > Pam Millar > ZuZu's Petals Farm > Spencer, NY > www.PatchworkFibers.com Registered Jacob Sheep _______________________________________________ Jacob-list mailing list Jacob-list@jacobsheep.com http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/jacob-list From joyew at jnlk.com Fri Nov 3 10:10:25 2000 From: joyew at jnlk.com (Wayne & Edie Van Valkenburg) Date: Wed Feb 2 07:52:28 2005 Subject: [Jacob-list] Pelts Message-ID: <3A02D561.DD246E79@jnlk.com> We have successfully had our pelts done by BuckCounty Fur Products Co. 220-1/2 N. Ambler St. (Rear), Quakertown, Pa. 18951 215-536-6614. The turn around time is at least 12 weeks. You must make sure all the fluid is out of them by laying them out fleece side down and salting them good with coarse salt. This must be done within 12 hours of slaughtering. hopefully your butcher does not put holes in the skin. When the skins are dry, just put them in a box and send. The cost is roughly $35-45. plus shipping. both ways. They have a washable process the still keeps the white white and not yellow. It does not cost extra. Wayne & Edie, Joy Farm, N.J. From Jacobflock at aol.com Fri Nov 3 11:00:08 2000 From: Jacobflock at aol.com (Jacobflock@aol.com) Date: Wed Feb 2 07:52:28 2005 Subject: [Jacob-list] Primitive breeds, genotype, scrapie Message-ID: Fred Horak here. I am not sure this is as simple as it seems on the surface. I assume that the posting "that two Jacob rams tested RR at codon 171" is actually ARR/ARR; the number of alleles is known and both Jacobs and Tunis (ARQ/ARQ) have the same number of alleles for the comparison. Natural scrapie in sheep, based on studies I've read so far, have zeroed in on three amino acid codons in the sheep PrP gene (a protein encoding gene) that are important. The codons (a triplet sequence of DNA that identifies each of the 20 amino acids) are 136, 154 and 171. The number of alleles is important because they may interact and how they interact is not clearly understood. There are breed differences in the frequency of the PrP alleles and in the involved scrapie alleles. However, in general, studies for some breeds which encode two PrP alleles (e.g., Suffolks, Hampshires, and some other breeds including the Soay) the coding is normally ARQ and ARR. Thus a ARQ/ARQ Suffolk breeding would be very susceptible to natural scrapie. On the other hand, natural scrapie would not be expected to be found in ARR/ARR sheep. What the heck is ARR at 136,154, 171? Maybe this table will help. Amino acid Codon Abbreviation Allele 136 valine V VRQ alanine A ARQ,AHQ,ARR 154 arginine R ARR histidine H AHQ 171 arginine R ARR glutamine Q VRQ,ARQ,AHQ Thus at codon 171, an ARR sequence is Alanine/Arginine/Arginine. There are other "complex breeds" which have complex PrP genetics: Swaledale and Shetlands, for example, have 4 PrP gene alleles: VRQ, ARQ, ARR, AHQ. In this case the VRQs seem to be extremely susceptible. Texels are thought to have 5 PrP gene alleles and thus even more complicated. If resistance to natural scrapie were bred solely on genotype an absolute disaster could occur: a Suffolk ARQ/ARQ is a scrapie high risk; a Swaledale ARQ/ARQ is "resistant". That is, selecting on an allele without regard to the number of alleles and genotype susceptibility, could be chaos. Studies (?) suggest that ARR/ARR at codon 171 is thought to be "resistant" to scrapie and BSE for most genotypes. There are also strains of prion diseases and I don't know if "resistance" means resistance to all strains. Scrapie is usually a post-mortem finding. Catherine O'Rourke and the people at Washington State have been working on a third eye-lid test which may indicate the presence of the prion protein disease that casuses natural scrapie. There are many prion diseases (natural scrapie being one): BSE (bovine spongiform/mad cow), CWD (chronic wasting) and even humans (Creutzfeld-Jacob) for a few "commonly known" ones. There are strains of scrapie and scrapie can be evidenced at various ages. Scrapie "resistance" has been based on the conclusion that no scrapie was identified during the normal life of the sheep/flock. But "resistance" has not been tested for possible latent scrapie. I think that some "resistance" is being tested by infecting disease "resistant" breeds to see if it is truly resistant or a latent carrier. How many PrP alleles does a Jacob have and is there a level of confidence that is associated with that number? Suppose that 100 Jacobs were tested; say they had just two PrP alleles and they all tested as ARR+ARR. Would that be a test of scrapie resistance? ... or ... reistance to a "strain" of scrapie by a "line" of Jacobs? Fred Horak From runzicker at erols.com Fri Nov 3 13:29:35 2000 From: runzicker at erols.com (Royal D. Unzicker) Date: Wed Feb 2 07:52:28 2005 Subject: [Jacob-list] taning costs Message-ID: <3A03040F.22A8@erols.com> Hi Pam, The prices quoted to you for getting pelts tanned sound high to me. When I have lambs butchered, for Jacob sized pelts, I pay $30 to $35 per pelt to be processed, depending on the size. They are washable. The meat processor even delivers the raw pelts to the tanner for me. At the Maryland Sheep & Wool Festival, most Jacob pets sell for $75.00 It might be worth it to ship/bring the pelts to Quakertown (PA) to be tanned. I can get you (or anyone else) the name of the tanner. Royal From Jacobflock at aol.com Fri Nov 3 14:51:03 2000 From: Jacobflock at aol.com (Jacobflock@aol.com) Date: Wed Feb 2 07:52:28 2005 Subject: [Jacob-list] Re: Pelts Message-ID: <41.2e335f3.27347127@aol.com> Fred Horak here. When you take a sheep in for butcher; be sure to ask to have the skin removed carefully so you can have it tanned. Slits and cuts in the skin at butchering mess up a pelt. Immediately after skinning, (sometimes butchers do a fast freeze of the pelt which you can pick up when you pick up the meat order) set the pelt (which seems to weigh 700 pounds) over a board or rail without nails to get the skin to ambient temperature (skin is hot after skinning, frozen if the butcher quick freezes). Remove any excess fat or flesh tissue as soon as possible by using a small piece of wood (like a wooden ruler) which is used on edge, ie. vertically? Not taking off the excess fat causes "fat burn" (a hard or waxy area on the skin side of the finished pelt). After removing the fat and flesh, place the skin on a board, skin side up and cover it with a quarter inch of salt...especially the edges which have a tendency to "curl". You may use 3 pounds per skin but salt is cheap and the key to a good pelt. Salt melts fat....rock breaks scissors, scissors cuts paper...and don't put it in the sun. The salt liquifies the fat so place it in such a manner that the melted fat runs off. After 48 hours, shake off the first salt application and salt it again and leave it to dry a bit....never in the sun not in front of a heater...just natural air drying. Never ever allow a raw skin to be placed skin side up in sunlight because this causes extreme "fat burn". A well salted and air dried hide can be stored for months in a dry area without a major loss in quality. If in doubt about how good a job of cleaning and salting one does, the better course is to ship the salt dried pelt at about two weeks (which now weighs about 5 pounds) to the tanner and have the tanner deal with any problem areas. Some no-nos: Do not ship frozen pelts in cardboard boxes. Do not ship pelts at any stage in plastic bags. Ship them in a sturdy cardboard box lined with newspaper or other absorbent material. Processing for a pelt can take from five to ten weeks depending on deer season. Pelt tanning generally costs $30-$50 per pelt depending on the tanner and process. Jacob pelts can be sold for $45-$75. There is a process that allows a pelt to be washed in a regular washing machine and dried in a dryer without the wool turning "yellow". Watch your margin between cost and sale so you don't get taken by "postage". Before tanning a pelt, consider the pelt color...Jacob pelts get a premium for color; white wool pelts are more a commodity. Consider the fleece. Hairy/kempy fleeces will tan as hairy/kempy (unkempt) pelts. Crimpy fleeces tan as wonderful soft wool pelts. Fred. From runzicker at erols.com Fri Nov 3 14:48:44 2000 From: runzicker at erols.com (Royal D. Unzicker) Date: Wed Feb 2 07:52:28 2005 Subject: [Jacob-list] condon 171 etc Message-ID: <3A03169C.35C9@erols.com> Hi Fred, I hadn't a clue what "RR at condon 171" meant. I figured someone would ask and I was going to refer them to you. So, thanks for coming to the rescue. I'm not sure I have a much better understanding now but at least you tried to get into my brain - which isn't nearly as scientific as yours. :-) Keep trying. Royal From millarjs at clarityconnect.com Fri Nov 3 01:06:31 2000 From: millarjs at clarityconnect.com (Jim Millar) Date: Wed Feb 2 07:52:28 2005 Subject: [Jacob-list] pelts Message-ID: <003b01c0455c$386ab940$314bfea9@oemcomputer> Thanks everyone for sharing your pelt knowledge. I believe now that the women at the taxidermist must have misquoted me. I'm also distressed because she stuck the pelts in her freezer without salting them. I had a vague knowledge of this process (salting) but she said no.....She has not cashed the check, so perhaps I will try the folks in Quakertown. Thanks again, Pam -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.pairlist.net/pipermail/jacob-list/attachments/20001103/c9df18b1/attachment.html From Robvcas at aol.com Fri Nov 3 17:45:03 2000 From: Robvcas at aol.com (Robvcas@aol.com) Date: Wed Feb 2 07:52:28 2005 Subject: [Jacob-list] pelts Message-ID: <57.d3144ca.273499ef@aol.com> I've had Jacob pelts tanned at Moosehead Tanners, (207-695-0272) in Greenville, Maine. They do a real nice job for about $40.00, depending on size. Also, I told my butcher that I was tanning the hides, and he heavily salted them and called me to pick them up as soon as they were chilled. I cleaned them of fat myself and resalted and dried them for shipping to the tanner. My pelts were tanned and shipped back in about 4 weeks . Robin Casasanto From fleece4u at juno.com Sun Nov 5 12:02:51 2000 From: fleece4u at juno.com (fleece4u@juno.com) Date: Wed Feb 2 07:52:28 2005 Subject: [Jacob-list] Ram for sale Message-ID: <20001105.120257.-976441.2.fleece4u@juno.com> We are looking to sell our nice 2 horn ram. We live in the Sevierville, TN area. If anyone is interested in more information please e-mail me at fleece4u@juno.com. Thnaks, Maria ________________________________________________________________ YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET! Juno now offers FREE Internet Access! Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. From theblacks at interisland.net Mon Nov 6 00:13:07 2000 From: theblacks at interisland.net (The Blacks) Date: Wed Feb 2 07:52:28 2005 Subject: [Jacob-list] Fw: [Alpacasite] Serious request for help Message-ID: <003201c047b0$41524220$4b1f3fd1@internet> ----- Original Message ----- From: Wyatt or Rach?lle Black To: <'Black@pine.frazmtn.com>; Kevin' ; Dan Black ; Dawna ; Eileen Black Rodriquez ; James Hyde ; Kimberlee Kurtz ; Sher?e Heller ; The Walter's ; Sent: Sunday, November 05, 2000 12:49 PM Subject: [Alpacasite] Serious request for help > Hello list and family members, this is from a member of our church, and > is a good friend of ours. > It is legitimate, and very serious. We appreciate your time in looking > this over. > Thank you, > Rach?lle > > List Administrator John Pinkowski Pine Ridge Alpacas (pra@alpacasite.com) > > Opinions and postings on this list are the sole responsibility of the > person > posting the message including their accuracy and content. > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > Alpacasite-unsubscribe@onelist.com. To change your settings go to http://www.onelist.com/group/Alpacasite > > -------------- next part -------------- An embedded message was scrubbed... From: Brian S Coleman Subject: Request for Help From Brian Coleman Date: Sun, 5 Nov 2000 15:06:19 -0800 Size: 32321 Url: http://www.pairlist.net/pipermail/jacob-list/attachments/20001105/7c59cc37/RequestforHelpFromBrianColeman.eml From iseespots at email.msn.com Tue Nov 7 05:59:46 2000 From: iseespots at email.msn.com (iseespots) Date: Wed Feb 2 07:52:28 2005 Subject: [Jacob-list] quiet recently and normal ram behavior Message-ID: <002401c048a9$d885e3a0$4caf0f3f@pavilion> Hi all, A news story on the local TV stations this morning prompted me to write. A couple in their mid/latter 80's has sheep. They found the woman down and dead in the pasture---also bloody---the other day, and the husband seriously injured in that same pasture where the breeding flock of sheep was. The husband died yesterday evening from his wounds. Now, what do you think attacked this couple? HINT: The Suffolk ram's head was bloody. What I have failed to fathom in all of this is WHY do people treat their livestock like they were 100% dependable sweet teddy bears? Didn't these folks understand the creatures they were caring for? Mary Ellen ISeeSpots Farm www.iseespots.com Home of Jacob Sheep, Shetland Sheep, and German Angora Rabbits, colored German Angora crosses. Renewable fleeces, loving personalities, friends. From oberlef at desupernet.net Tue Nov 7 07:28:04 2000 From: oberlef at desupernet.net (dave & katrina) Date: Wed Feb 2 07:52:28 2005 Subject: [Jacob-list] sawdust in fleece Message-ID: <000c01c048b6$46474ee0$d8202940@dl1009203> Does anyone have any advice for getting sawdust out of fleece? Is it hopeless? I remember hearing discussions on this topic before, but wondered if anyone could add anything. We brought some sheep to our place in a cattle truck with shavings in the bottom and by the time we got home, they had kicked it up into their fleece. It really seemed to really stick to the lamb fleece...the fleece that had been shorn before does not seem to be a problem. Any ideas? Katrina Lefever, Chicory Lane Farm. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.pairlist.net/pipermail/jacob-list/attachments/20001107/0ae9688a/attachment.html From spahrfarm at dragonbbs.com Tue Nov 7 10:56:37 2000 From: spahrfarm at dragonbbs.com (Jim Spahr) Date: Wed Feb 2 07:52:28 2005 Subject: [Jacob-list] Ram Behavior Message-ID: <001101c048d3$511c91a0$ac96453f@cyrix> Thanks Mary Ellen for reminding everyone to keep a watchful eye on their rams. What a terrible accident! We lost my favorite 2-horned ram last week who was killed by his twin brother with ONE butt to the head. Breeding season makes rams much more aggressive and possibly more dangerous to their owners. I recall past posts to this list where some people were making pets of their rams, and even letting their children come in close contact with them. This is a big mistake, even when the ram is a lamb. Some ewes can also be dangerous when they are protecting their lambs, or penned up in a tight spot for shearing, etc. This spring we had a crossbred ewe with twins. One twin was weak and we wanted to examine it. She would not let us get close to it and actually charged my husband. He got a sorting panel that we use for our hogs to put between the ewe and himself. He was finally able to get close enough to grab the lamb. Another crossbred ewe butted him when we were docking lamb tails. Mary Spahr -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.pairlist.net/pipermail/jacob-list/attachments/20001107/02bf1636/attachment.htm From stonecroft235 at juno.com Tue Nov 7 13:31:59 2000 From: stonecroft235 at juno.com (Susan J. Martin) Date: Wed Feb 2 07:52:28 2005 Subject: [Jacob-list] Reminder of ram behavior Message-ID: <20001107.133201.-229613.8.stonecroft235@juno.com> Thanks Mary Ellen for the reminder - rams are rams are rams!!! I had a recent reminder of this - I was in the barn with 4 ram lambs born this past spring & while I was examining one of them I did something I am committed to never doing - for a moment I turned my back on the other three. You guessed it - a butt on my behind reminded me of my foolishness....the little guy doing the butting didn't put his full strength into it, just a bump, fortunately for me....and I was immediately reminded that these guys are soon due to head down the road to the place where lambies lose their mobility and become wrapped in paper and frozen!! ________________________________________________________________ YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET! Juno now offers FREE Internet Access! Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. From lambfarm at sover.net Mon Nov 13 09:40:23 2000 From: lambfarm at sover.net (Betty Berlenbach) Date: Wed Feb 2 07:52:28 2005 Subject: [Jacob-list] intro Message-ID: <01C04D55.C2490C60@arc4a136.bf.sover.net> HI, I'm trying again to get onto this list. I think I've done it in the past, but blew it somewhere, or maybe I never made it on completely. Nevertheless, here goes: I am Betty Berlenbach. I live in Vermont with my husband, John, moved here from N.J. almost 5-1/2 years ago, raise Jacobs and shetlands, though I have to say that the jacobs are the breed which comes first in my heart! Currently, because I have been helping a friend disburse a shetland flock, and hence, have had some of her sheep on my land, I have 11 Jacob ewes and 3 rams; 9 shetland ewes and 2 rams, including 4 left unsold of the 15 I had of Pat's, plus a bunch of freezer lambs awaiting the big day, mostly shetland ram lambs who don't make the cut, plus two jacob ram lambs. As I write this, Nestorius, a ram lamb I got this spring at the Jacob AGM is courting one of his "girlfriends" out in the space set aside for him and them. There are two other breed groupings for the jacobs, and two for the shetlands which makes a lot of water hauling and hay pitching each day. My sheep are brought up on organic grain and hay fertilized with manure only (next year, I think I'll be able to afford organic hay, thanks to commissions from selling off those shetlands) in winter, pasture grass only during pasture growing season, which up here is late May through Oct. This year a friend who logs with horses is coming to clear some more forest land, to increase our pastures. My goal is to have enough paddocks so that I don't have to return them to a paddock any time during a season, to decrease worming to a minimum. I have not tested for OPP on any but ill aged ewes, who have all turned up negative, with two tests, several months apart where possible. (I have a friend who tests for OPP, is OPP negative; is very proud of that; yet, two years ago, lost 8 lambs out of 12, (all from seemingly different causes, with a few because of births in cold not discovered until too late;but she has no OPP!! I have not lost a lamb in 4 years.) At this point my opinion on OPP is that it is serious, but not worth panicking over. More lambs and sheep are lost to other causes than OPP. I was very grateful for the series of articles on OPP in a jacob newsletter several issues ago, which ran the gamut from "ARGG!!!" to "Eh?". I think I fall somewhere in the middle. My breeding goal is to provide as many different types of lambs from as many unrelated breeding ewes as I can, and I change rams every two years at least. Hence, I have many repeat customers, since they can get lambs unrelated to the ones they bought from me last year. EAch year, I sell all the lambs (or maybe keep one, if her dam is getting old), and buy the best ewe lamb or yearling ewe I can find of unrelated stock. Hence, none of my ewes look alike, but rather seem to reflect an ever widening variety of jacobs. There will never be a lamb with a "Berlenbach look" because I choose different looks each year and keep the diversity. Enough! Some of you probably know me already. You're tired of this pitch. Others don't know me yet, but you've probably read enough to satisfy your curiosity about who I am. I look forward to the exchange of ideas on the list. From wolfpen at rabun.net Tue Nov 14 19:42:34 2000 From: wolfpen at rabun.net (linda) Date: Wed Feb 2 07:52:28 2005 Subject: [Jacob-list] thermometer Message-ID: <200011150049.TAA01457@mail> One of the first things I do when a sheep looks "poorly" and I have no idea of why is to take its temperature. Last week I saw BD digital thermometers on sale at Walmart ($7.94) and decided to pass this on to the list. I bought one five years ago and it's great for sheep. It is plastic and flexible. But the big deal is that it beeps every four seconds as long as it is getting a reading. If it stops beeping, it has slipped out. I don't know about you, but I'm getting too old to stand for 2 minutes bent over making sure a rectal thermometer is still installed in a short sheep while simultaneously holding on to the other end. This one gives a series of rapid beeps when the reading is finished. Linda www.PatchworkFibers.com Registered Jacob Sheep From Robvcas at aol.com Tue Nov 14 19:56:43 2000 From: Robvcas at aol.com (Robvcas@aol.com) Date: Wed Feb 2 07:52:28 2005 Subject: [Jacob-list] thermometer Message-ID: I agree Linda , those thermometers are a necessary luxury ! You can be really extravagant and buy the disposable thin plastic sleeves to slip over it and have no clean up . Anyone who takes a rectal reading deserves only the best ! ;-) Robin Casasanto -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.pairlist.net/pipermail/jacob-list/attachments/20001114/856f0d99/attachment.html From srussell at lib.south-ayrshire.gov.uk Fri Nov 17 05:11:32 2000 From: srussell at lib.south-ayrshire.gov.uk (Susan Russell) Date: Wed Feb 2 07:52:28 2005 Subject: [Jacob-list] tanning Message-ID: <10113262053318@lib.south-ayrshire.gov.uk> To the person I gave tanning info to. It was duff info. It is Formeldehyde 1 in 4 for the skins not as I said before. Thanks Susan Russell Woodpark Jacob, Shetland and Hebridean sheep From pavel314 at home.com Sat Nov 18 20:20:28 2000 From: pavel314 at home.com (Pavel) Date: Wed Feb 2 07:52:28 2005 Subject: [Jacob-list] Rambouillet Ram Lambs Need Home Message-ID: <3A172ADC.7EC0DBE0@home.com> Got this message the other day: "The reason I am writing is that my friend is in a bit of a bind, she has two 5 month old Ram lambs (out of a Symphony Hill Champ Ramboullet Ram) she would rather not have to Lamb chop them since they are BEAUTIFUL but missed her best opportunity to sell them for stud (Vermont, Sept 30) and now the next best time is MS&W and these 2 little boys are starting to act like Rams, taunting Daddy & starting to play butt US!! unfortunately space is the problem , ewes are easy but the rams are becoming a problem. Any way to get to the point ... if You or any one you can think of in the North east would be interested in one or both of these Beautiful boys to save them from the chopping block PLEASE E-mail me ASAP. We would be willing to drive to at least Maryland to deliver to the right place or meet someone half way to somewhere farther away!" If anyone is interested, please email me and I'll forward your response onward. Thanks, pli From Robvcas at aol.com Sat Nov 18 21:43:57 2000 From: Robvcas at aol.com (Robvcas@aol.com) Date: Wed Feb 2 07:52:28 2005 Subject: [Jacob-list] range of Jacobs in North America Message-ID: <7b.c536ae9.2748986d@aol.com> Does anyone know if there are Jacobs in Mexico ? I've been thinking of the differences between what we call "the American Jacob", (which is really the North American Jacob to include Canada), and the English (European) Jacobs. The original Canadian and American imports have spread widely across the continent judging by this list and the breed registries, and I wonder just how far they've gone. Its interesting to me that there is still such a difference in Jacob style between here and "across the pond" I know efforts are being made by some breeders to maintain early import strains, but I wonder if there will eventually be a blended style with less variation from animal to animal as we buy and sell sheep across the continent. As purebred Jacobs become more easily available, it seems there would also be less outcrossing to other breeds, resulting in a more common style. Just some idle musings to bring some noise to this quiet list ! Robin Casasanto -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.pairlist.net/pipermail/jacob-list/attachments/20001118/b3392e72/attachment.htm From wolfpen at rabun.net Sun Nov 19 17:40:04 2000 From: wolfpen at rabun.net (linda) Date: Wed Feb 2 07:52:28 2005 Subject: [Jacob-list] sheep tales Message-ID: <200011192243.RAA26207@mail> It has been quiet on this list. I've been saving my sheep tales for a quiet time, so this must be my time to share. I use one of those green rubbermaid wheelbarrows to carry hay. I pull rather than push it. One day about two weeks ago I was pulling the wheelbarrow, loaded with hay, across the sheep pasture on my way to the donkey pasture. The sheep follow me and grab hay as I go. It seemed like it was pretty hard to pull, but I was going through the woods so didn't think much of it. When I stopped and turned around - PW Lorraine was riding in the wheelbarrow, happily munching on the hay! One more - a few days ago the sheep were coming back in to their night pen at feed time. There was a branch across the gate. All the sheep either jumped it or plowed through it. My 2000 ewe lamb, April was the last one and she's kinda short. She picked up the branch with her mouth and moved it to the side. I know she was probably just going to take a bite and happened to spit it out of her way. But, it gave me a start! Linda www.PatchworkFibers.com Registered Jacob Sheep -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.pairlist.net/pipermail/jacob-list/attachments/20001119/e355d0d2/attachment.html From Jacobflock at aol.com Sun Nov 19 20:28:09 2000 From: Jacobflock at aol.com (Jacobflock@aol.com) Date: Wed Feb 2 07:52:28 2005 Subject: [Jacob-list] sheep tales Message-ID: <74.50906f8.2749d829@aol.com> Fred here. One of those crazy but true stories. I also use one of those big Rubbermaid two-wheelers to take hay out to the back pasture. We had to resort to throwing hay becasue of the drought so I take a bale in the cart out to the 40-50 ewes in the back pasture just about every night. We use saquare bales of "hay grazer"...johnson grass, a little young sorghum, etc. super sweet and they love it. I generally tear each flake into two or three pieces and throw it to keep the girls out of the wagon. There are a couple of girls who are now aware of the feeding pattern and when I tear the flakes and throw them, they run after the partial flakes and try to catch them before they hit the ground...just like Tib and Tee our border collies. I ain't lyin' when I tell you that a couple of ewes actually caught the flakes goin through the air. Fred. From iseespots at hotmail.com Mon Nov 20 06:11:12 2000 From: iseespots at hotmail.com (Mary Hansson) Date: Wed Feb 2 07:52:28 2005 Subject: [Jacob-list] range of Jacobs in North America Message-ID: Robin, From blotham at sigecom.net Mon Nov 20 06:37:49 2000 From: blotham at sigecom.net (Aaron and Abigail Brown) Date: Wed Feb 2 07:52:28 2005 Subject: [Jacob-list] sheep tales References: <200011192243.RAA26207@mail> Message-ID: <002a01c052e6$5096f500$2fd0453f@sigecom.net> Linda, The first one is a "roar!" Abigail and I enjoyed both of them. In fact, Abigail knew exactly what you were going to say about the sheep riding in the wheelbarrow. We have similar accounts we could share, as I am certain everybody does. Aaron & Abigail Brown Shiloh Farm Indiana USA ======================================= ----- Original Message ----- From: linda To: jacob-list@jacobsheep.com Sent: Sunday, November 19, 2000 5:40 PM Subject: [Jacob-list] sheep tales It has been quiet on this list. I've been saving my sheep tales for a quiet time, so this must be my time to share. I use one of those green rubbermaid wheelbarrows to carry hay. I pull rather than push it. One day about two weeks ago I was pulling the wheelbarrow, loaded with hay, across the sheep pasture on my way to the donkey pasture. The sheep follow me and grab hay as I go. It seemed like it was pretty hard to pull, but I was going through the woods so didn't think much of it. When I stopped and turned around - PW Lorraine was riding in the wheelbarrow, happily munching on the hay! One more - a few days ago the sheep were coming back in to their night pen at feed time. There was a branch across the gate. All the sheep either jumped it or plowed through it. My 2000 ewe lamb, April was the last one and she's kinda short. She picked up the branch with her mouth and moved it to the side. I know she was probably just going to take a bite and happened to spit it out of her way. But, it gave me a start! Linda www.PatchworkFibers.com Registered Jacob Sheep -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.pairlist.net/pipermail/jacob-list/attachments/20001120/a9d5c21d/attachment.htm From mcmcc at ucinet.com Mon Nov 20 09:35:31 2000 From: mcmcc at ucinet.com (Mary McCracken) Date: Wed Feb 2 07:52:28 2005 Subject: [Jacob-list] sheep tales Message-ID: <006501c052ff$244650e0$3fb523d0@oemcomputer> Even more fun than the two wheeled cart for a hay delivery system is the plastic snow sled. We have snow in the surrounding mountains here in northeastern Oregon but my small valley plot is still bare. Only throw a couple of flakes to bring the girls in for casual inspection. Enjoying a couple of new Shetland sheep. I helped place more than thirty into local homes after the local sheep buyer ended up with a flock of young ewes and ewe lambs from an Idaho auction. Each had a US Forest Service ear tag. Nothing else known. Anyone out there have information that may clear the mystery? We are surmising that it had to do with a weed program or eating a fireline???? Why Shetlands? The entire flock almost went by truck to the California ethnic market. Certainly glad our wonderful local sheep 'jockey' made a call before sending them on. He really loves sheep. Great to see!! mary -----Original Message----- From: Jacobflock@aol.com To: wolfpen@rabun.net ; jacob-list@jacobsheep.com Date: Sunday, November 19, 2000 5:29 PM Subject: Re: [Jacob-list] sheep tales >Fred here. One of those crazy but true stories. > >I also use one of those big Rubbermaid two-wheelers to take hay out to the >back pasture. We had to resort to throwing hay becasue of the drought so I >take a bale in the cart out to the 40-50 ewes in the back pasture just about >every night. We use saquare bales of "hay grazer"...johnson grass, a little >young sorghum, etc. super sweet and they love it. I generally tear each >flake into two or three pieces and throw it to keep the girls out of the >wagon. > >There are a couple of girls who are now aware of the feeding pattern and when >I tear the flakes and throw them, they run after the partial flakes and try >to catch them before they hit the ground...just like Tib and Tee our border >collies. I ain't lyin' when I tell you that a couple of ewes actually caught >the flakes goin through the air. Fred. > >_______________________________________________ >Jacob-list mailing list >Jacob-list@jacobsheep.com >http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/jacob-list > From spahrfarm at dragonbbs.com Mon Nov 20 11:21:06 2000 From: spahrfarm at dragonbbs.com (Jim Spahr) Date: Wed Feb 2 07:52:28 2005 Subject: [Jacob-list] Sheep Tales Message-ID: <001501c0530d$e3467660$bc96453f@cyrix> Linda & all, We need to have Patrice put all these funny stories into a comic strip (call it Sheep Tales) for the newsletter! What a funny story about the ewe riding in the wheelbarrow eating her hay! I still laugh when I remember your story about the squirt gun you carry for protection against your ram, and someone coming to your house and seeing you with it strapped around your waist in a plastic holster. Do I have that story right? Could you tell it again? The Miami Valley Weavers' Guild Show that we attended last Sat. was fun. We sold a Jacob lamb pelt and traded another one for a cherry bench. We sold Jacob roving in brindle (black, grey, white stripe), which is usually our best-selling roving, Jacob over-dyed green, Horned Dorset roving, and brown llama roving. Our large Horned Dorset felting batt sold, some pima cotton Xmas angels, and a handspun Jacob hooded scarf. I spent only $5 this time on some mohair locks dyed in purples and blues - had to resist the temptation of buying hand-dyed silk and alpaca! I have already been wearing my Jacob socks as it is getting cold here in Ohio. The wind is blowing hard today and there is a light covering of snow on the ground. The sheep did not even want to leave the barn to go out into the pasture this morning. Time to get the Jacob scarves out of the cedar chest! Happy Thanksgiving to everyone! Mary Spahr -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.pairlist.net/pipermail/jacob-list/attachments/20001120/a3ad533d/attachment.html From Robvcas at aol.com Mon Nov 20 13:49:10 2000 From: Robvcas at aol.com (Robvcas@aol.com) Date: Wed Feb 2 07:52:28 2005 Subject: [Jacob-list] range of Jacobs in North America Message-ID: <29.cd569f4.274acc26@aol.com> Mary Ellen, from your response about Jacob "style", I'm perceiving that you think the variations in Jacob traits ARE Jacob traits, that they will not likely become a predictable blend of genetics ? That's reassuring to think Jacobs will remain as unique and interesting as we now see them. Robin Casasanto -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.pairlist.net/pipermail/jacob-list/attachments/20001120/9f4a4d6a/attachment.htm From bissell at usit.net Mon Nov 20 16:30:01 2000 From: bissell at usit.net (Edd Bissell) Date: Wed Feb 2 07:52:28 2005 Subject: [Jacob-list] Rescued Romney flock Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.20001120213001.009c785c@pop.usit.net> I just "bought" a flock of 1 Romney ram, 4 ewes = all registered = along with 1 finn ewe and 3 or 4 Romney/Finn crosses ewes = all bred - lady is a wool person who has run out of pasture/hay/etc. I DO NOT want these sheep - she brings them up here to get them sheared each spring and called ma last week despirate - I will pick them up this week and bring them to my house - Anyone out there interested - PLEASE??? I will pay her $400 for all of them - you can have them for that price - I only bought them to keep them from going to the meat market - or if you know of anyone in the Tennessee area that might be interested - How about Karen Smith in Greenback - anyone know her address?? ===== Edd Bissell = Hidden View Farm = Rare and Primitive Breed Animals Scottish Blackface=Jacob=Barbados=Texas Dall=Navajo-Churro=Churro Hairsheep ====Tennessee Nervous Meat Goats = = Great Pyrenees LGDs===== = eddbissell.com = 423-475-4844 = 1435 Collins Road - New Market, Tennessee U.S.A. 37820 From bissell at usit.net Mon Nov 20 20:56:41 2000 From: bissell at usit.net (Edd Bissell) Date: Wed Feb 2 07:52:28 2005 Subject: [Jacob-list] range of Jacobs in North America Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.20001121015641.009d9e98@pop.usit.net> >> >>From what I have seen of the Jacob sheep here in the US, they are PRIMARILY >>blends of the so-called primitive/improved versions. There is not a wide >>difference as some have talked about between the size or overall appearance >>of these animals. I got a chance to see Maizie Hescock's flock this past >>summer as that is THE flock that has not had any influence from this >>country's sheep since being imported in the 70's from England. It is also >>the "classic improved" flock if you are talking about the latter >>imports-----the overall size of sheep was similar to others. There were >>fine-boned sheep and heavier boned ones in the group. There was simply a >>wide variation in the flock----just as we often see in our own flocks that >>stand in our backyards. > >\========= >I remember well the first time I saw Mazie Hescock's flock and I personally thought just the opposite to you Mary Ann - They were to me a completerly different look - wider noses, larger frames [although a few were admittedly a smaller frame], ALLl, except for one younr ram, had PINK noses, much longer, courser and VERY definate black and white patterns on the wool. I bought 20 ewes from her and brought them back home with me. The difference in the "look" of these Hescock ewes and my Hatch type was even more evident when placed into the same fields. She would not sell us, Luther and I, a ram so there were immediately bred over a Hatch ram - I later got a ram from Janine Fenton, bred him over the ewes I had left several years later, and then passed this entire flock on to Bill Jones. > >The difference in these two type flocks were evident BUT the most prominant thing to me was the body frame and the carraige - the Hatch type being a more allert, nervous, wild type demenor while the Hescock sheep were more like a commercial, low key attitude sheep. Hard to explaine but an overall attitude or more wild type action. I would use the work primitive but seems too many have an opinion that this is not the proper wording - however to me it is. > >But remember that my first sheep did NOT from from Hatch - they were from primarily the 4-h sale in Cape Geraredo [sp[elling], Mo. - Hatch bought 90% of everything that came thru and I got the left overs - those that he was not interested in - not a whole lot different from his purchases but just no quiet as nice. Luther also found lots of things that came out of Canada, the mid West, etc a few years later. > >=== >> > Edd Bissell = Hidden View Farm = Rare and Primitive Breed Animals Scottish Blackface=Jacob=Barbados=Texas Dall=Navajo-Churro=Churro Hairsheep ====Tennessee Nervous Meat Goats = = Great Pyrenees LGDs===== = eddbissell.com = 423-475-4844 = 1435 Collins Road - New Market, Tennessee U.S.A. 37820 From SJohn21855 at aol.com Tue Nov 21 07:48:16 2000 From: SJohn21855 at aol.com (SJohn21855@aol.com) Date: Wed Feb 2 07:52:28 2005 Subject: [Jacob-list] wool processing Message-ID: <82.32bbfb8.274bc910@aol.com> Hi all, Do any of you know the names and email addresses (possible web sites) of any wool processing places in Michigan? I sent a very nice fleece to a company in MI a year ago and have not received it back yet. Unfortunately I had the address, etc., on my computer and the computer went down. Now I have no idea where I sent it. That will teach me to go back to keeping hard copy of everything on my computer! God bless, Shelly On the banks of the Cranberry River From creagchild at monad.net Tue Nov 21 16:50:30 2000 From: creagchild at monad.net (Thomas Simmons) Date: Wed Feb 2 07:52:28 2005 Subject: [Jacob-list] wool processing Message-ID: <009401c05405$12be3980$fdec61cc@oemcomputer> Shelly - If you're looking for the place I use, it's: Zeilinger Wool Company 1130 Weiss Street Frankenmuth, MI 48734 517-652-2920 As an aside, a handspinner near me commented that my rovings were the best she had ever seen, and they all came through Z's. The waiting period can be long (6-8 weeks), but the price is decent (with a further discount for pre-paid orders), they work with small quantities, and they're still "homey" (handwritten notes/instructions with your fleeces are standard operating precedures). thom From wolfpen at rabun.net Tue Nov 21 17:46:46 2000 From: wolfpen at rabun.net (linda) Date: Wed Feb 2 07:52:28 2005 Subject: [Jacob-list] Sheep Tales In-Reply-To: <001501c0530d$e3467660$bc96453f@cyrix> Message-ID: <200011212305.SAA02445@mail> Mary & all, You've got the story right. It was the UPS man and he just rolled his eyes like he does frequently. He's gotten to used to our dogs, so will come in the gate and doesn't seem to mind having to push away the sheep if they are in the yard. A few of the more friendly ones are really interested in what might in the boxes! Jacob Sheep are such a pleasure to just watch. Like most breeders I pay attention to horns, fleece, conformation, etc, but the real reason I have these sheep is that I just love to be around them. Dave and I have many enjoyable evenings just messing with the sheep and watching them. I did have to tell Dave that we cannot keep a ram just because, as Dave says, "That one is just too goofy to get rid of." Goofy isn't on my list of selection criteria. Sounds like you did great at the Guild Show. That's wonderful - any time you can sell more than you buy, it's a success. We got 3" of snow here in Georgia - high today was 39. It was a good day to work on fiber projects. Speaking of which, since this is a slow time on the list, what is anyone working on, fiberwise? I know not everyone spins, but I'd love to hear what listers are doing with their fleeces right now. I'm getting close to finishing a top down sweater using handspun yarn from Spahr Farm Lorraine with some stripes of deep red yarn that is a blend of PW Sunshine and my Giant Angora, Sheridan. Isn't it fun to have sweaters with names! Also spinning some roving I painted with Kool Aid for my mother. She's going to weave a hooded scarf with it. Linda On Mon, 20 Nov 2000 11:21:06 -0500, Jim Spahr wrote: > Linda & all, > > We need to have Patrice put all these funny stories into a comic strip (call it Sheep >Tales) for the newsletter! What a funny story about the ewe riding in the wheelbarrow >eating her hay! I still laugh when I remember your story about the squirt gun you carry for >protection against your ram, and someone coming to your house and seeing you with it >strapped around your waist in a plastic holster. Do I have that story right? Could you >tell it again? > The Miami Valley Weavers' Guild Show that we attended last Sat. was fun. We sold a Jacob >lamb pelt and traded another one for a cherry bench. We sold Jacob roving in brindle >(black, grey, white stripe), which is usually our best-selling roving, Jacob over-dyed >green, Horned Dorset roving, and brown llama roving. Our large Horned Dorset felting batt >sold, some pima cotton Xmas angels, and a handspun Jacob hooded scarf. I spent only $5 >this time on some mohair locks dyed in purples and blues - had to resist the temptation of >buying hand-dyed silk and alpaca! > I have already been wearing my Jacob socks as it is getting cold here in Ohio. The wind is >blowing hard today and there is a light covering of snow on the ground. The sheep did not >even want to leave the barn to go out into the pasture this morning. Time to get the Jacob >scarves out of the cedar chest! > Happy Thanksgiving to everyone! > > >Mary Spahr > > www.PatchworkFibers.com Registered Jacob Sheep -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.pairlist.net/pipermail/jacob-list/attachments/20001121/9133e5ae/attachment.html From wolfpen at rabun.net Tue Nov 21 17:59:25 2000 From: wolfpen at rabun.net (linda) Date: Wed Feb 2 07:52:29 2005 Subject: [Jacob-list] range of Jacobs in North America In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <200011212305.SAA02448@mail> Could you fill us in on some of the specifics of the Hescock flock. Also - if anyone remembers the article that I'd retyped and sent out (the article that Todd Hescock wrote about the importation) and still has it, could I get a copy?. I lost it when my hard drive crashed. I'm trying to remember exactly what the flock started with. Was it just one or two rams that originally came into North America? Did the Hescock flock ever add any other sheep besides the original imports? I find it really interesting that there could still be so much diversity in a closed flock. Linda On Mon, 20 Nov 2000 06:11:12 EST, Mary Hansson wrote: >Robin, > >>From what I have seen of the Jacob sheep here in the US, they are PRIMARILY >blends of the so-called primitive/improved versions. There is not a wide >difference as some have talked about between the size or overall appearance >of these animals. I got a chance to see Maizie Hescock's flock this past >summer as that is THE flock that has not had any influence from this >country's sheep since being imported in the 70's from England. It is also >the "classic improved" flock if you are talking about the latter >imports-----the overall size of sheep was similar to others. There were >fine-boned sheep and heavier boned ones in the group. There was simply a >wide variation in the flock----just as we often see in our own flocks that >stand in our backyards. > >The Mexican connection is an interesting one---don't know a thing about >Jacobs across the border. > >Mary Ellen >>From: Robvcas@aol.com >18 Nov 2000 21:43:57 EST >> >>Does anyone know if there are Jacobs in Mexico ? I've been thinking of the >>differences between what we call "the American Jacob", (which is really >>the >>North American Jacob to include Canada), and the English (European) Jacobs. >>The original Canadian and American imports have spread widely across the >>continent judging by this list and the breed registries, and I wonder just >>how far they've gone. Its interesting to me that there is still such a >>difference in Jacob style between here and "across the pond" I know >>efforts >>are being made by some breeders to maintain early import strains, but I >>wonder if there will eventually be a blended style with less variation from >>animal to animal as we buy and sell sheep across the continent. As >>purebred >>Jacobs become more easily available, it seems there would also be less >>outcrossing to other breeds, resulting in a more common style. Just some >>idle musings to bring some noise to this quiet list ! Robin Casasanto > >_________________________________________________________________________ >Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. > >Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at >http://profiles.msn.com. > > >_______________________________________________ >Jacob-list mailing list >Jacob-list@jacobsheep.com >http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/jacob-list www.PatchworkFibers.com Registered Jacob Sheep -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.pairlist.net/pipermail/jacob-list/attachments/20001121/9ebc04f2/attachment.htm From lambfarm at sover.net Tue Nov 21 18:27:18 2000 From: lambfarm at sover.net (Betty Berlenbach) Date: Wed Feb 2 07:52:29 2005 Subject: [Jacob-list] hescock Message-ID: <01C053EC.671B3F00@arc1a223.bf.sover.net> I was in Maine recently and heard tell of a guy who "Kept" the Hescock sheep for them during quarantine, who kept some of the sheep in exchange for that,supposedly. These sheep have been "quarantined" on an Island off the Maine coast with little shepherding done, since. The guy says he tries to catch them once a year and shear them, but that's it. No control over breeding, etc., but no other sheep on the island, so in effect, it is a feral flock--if this is all true. I had hoped to be in touch with him by now--have to write, he's a caretaker for some big-deal estate--but haven';t quite gotten to it. I'd like to visit and see these sheep, which means Springtime, since it requires a boat and is pretty cold up there now. When I hear from him, I'll post whatever I hear--but, does this ring any bells anywhere for anyone? His name is Jamie Huntsberger, I think--it's written down in the other room, I'm too lazy to go check spelling at the moment. I think if it's true, and they are a sort of feral, unsupervised flock for lo, these 20 years, and there have been no additions, then it might be interesting to see what has happened to the sheep over that time. Edd, it seems to me that if anyone really knows anything about this, it might be you? Ever heard of this scenario? Betty! From creagchild at monad.net Tue Nov 21 19:53:05 2000 From: creagchild at monad.net (Thomas Simmons) Date: Wed Feb 2 07:52:29 2005 Subject: [Jacob-list] hescock Message-ID: <001501c0541e$94656940$fdec61cc@oemcomputer> Yes, Betty, it's all true, and his name is Jamie Huntsberger, and it's Butter Island in the Penobscot Bay, and he's a chef, and it's easier to see them at Kelmscott Farm in Linconville, Maine, since they purchased some of them from him. :-) thom -----Original Message----- From: Betty Berlenbach To: 'jacob-list@jacobsheep.com' Date: Tuesday, November 21, 2000 6:42 PM Subject: [Jacob-list] hescock >I was in Maine recently and heard tell of a guy who "Kept" the Hescock sheep for them during quarantine, who kept some of the sheep in exchange for that,supposedly. These sheep have been "quarantined" on an Island off the Maine coast with little shepherding done, since. The guy says he tries to catch them once a year and shear them, but that's it. No control over breeding, etc., but no other sheep on the island, so in effect, it is a feral flock--if this is all true. I had hoped to be in touch with him by now--have to write, he's a caretaker for some big-deal estate--but haven';t quite gotten to it. I'd like to visit and see these sheep, which means Springtime, since it requires a boat and is pretty cold up there now. When I hear from him, I'll post whatever I hear--but, does this ring any bells anywhere for anyone? His name is Jamie Huntsberger, I think--it's written down in the other room, I'm too lazy to go check spelling at the moment. > >I think if it's true, and they are a sort of feral, unsupervised flock for lo, these 20 years, and there have been no additions, then it might be interesting to see what has happened to the sheep over that time. Edd, it seems to me that if anyone really knows anything about this, it might be you? Ever heard of this scenario? Betty! > >_______________________________________________ >Jacob-list mailing list >Jacob-list@jacobsheep.com >http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/jacob-list > From creagchild at monad.net Tue Nov 21 19:54:19 2000 From: creagchild at monad.net (Thomas Simmons) Date: Wed Feb 2 07:52:29 2005 Subject: [Jacob-list] hescock Message-ID: <001801c0541e$c0b037a0$fdec61cc@oemcomputer> Oh - P.S - the tendency in the feral flock has been to produce VERY dark and VERY light sheep, as opposed to a lovely designated 60/40 ratio. thom -----Original Message----- From: Betty Berlenbach To: 'jacob-list@jacobsheep.com' Date: Tuesday, November 21, 2000 6:42 PM Subject: [Jacob-list] hescock >I was in Maine recently and heard tell of a guy who "Kept" the Hescock sheep for them during quarantine, who kept some of the sheep in exchange for that,supposedly. These sheep have been "quarantined" on an Island off the Maine coast with little shepherding done, since. The guy says he tries to catch them once a year and shear them, but that's it. No control over breeding, etc., but no other sheep on the island, so in effect, it is a feral flock--if this is all true. I had hoped to be in touch with him by now--have to write, he's a caretaker for some big-deal estate--but haven';t quite gotten to it. I'd like to visit and see these sheep, which means Springtime, since it requires a boat and is pretty cold up there now. When I hear from him, I'll post whatever I hear--but, does this ring any bells anywhere for anyone? His name is Jamie Huntsberger, I think--it's written down in the other room, I'm too lazy to go check spelling at the moment. > >I think if it's true, and they are a sort of feral, unsupervised flock for lo, these 20 years, and there have been no additions, then it might be interesting to see what has happened to the sheep over that time. Edd, it seems to me that if anyone really knows anything about this, it might be you? Ever heard of this scenario? Betty! > >_______________________________________________ >Jacob-list mailing list >Jacob-list@jacobsheep.com >http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/jacob-list > From djspin at vtc.net Tue Nov 21 20:47:26 2000 From: djspin at vtc.net (Russ and Nancy Johnston) Date: Wed Feb 2 07:52:29 2005 Subject: [Jacob-list] fiber doings Message-ID: <004201c05426$2b4c8760$84948ad0@rallen> It's a good time of year to be doing wonderful fiber things! Here in southeastern Arizona, we had our earliest on record snow Nov. 2nd, between 2" and 4". It's been one of those Falls of rain, wind and cold. I've been spinning on three of Mary Spahr's fleeces and am carding the rest to spin at a demo several of us will be doing at the Willcox Apple Festival the first week of December. (Not many apples by then, basically a craft and juried art/craft show.) Also have several more jacob fleeces--two of my own and several from a friend's flock which came here from Oregon originally. I hope to spin up all the jacob I can in preparation for a completely jacob woven blanket. That's the plan, anyway! Nancy in SE AZ From djspin at vtc.net Tue Nov 21 22:21:54 2000 From: djspin at vtc.net (Russ and Nancy Johnston) Date: Wed Feb 2 07:52:29 2005 Subject: [Jacob-list] shetlands with "forest tags" Message-ID: <001601c05433$5d93b380$84948ad0@rallen> During the fires this summer, I had read through another list that the forest service was, indeed, using sheep to eat fire breaks. They apparently felt that they needed all the help they could get, especially at the height of the fire season when manpower was overstretched and under-slept. Curious that they sent them to an Idaho auction. Nancy From spahrfarm at dragonbbs.com Wed Nov 22 10:55:13 2000 From: spahrfarm at dragonbbs.com (Jim Spahr) Date: Wed Feb 2 07:52:29 2005 Subject: [Jacob-list] Kelmscott Farm Message-ID: <001701c0549c$9c8ea7c0$ba96453f@cyrix> I had the pleasure of talking with Perry Ells, who works at Kelmscott Farm a few months ago. She was telling me of the scrapie program they are in. They raise other rare breeds of cattle, horses, pigs, chickens, ducks, and turkeys. In addition to Jacob sheep they have Soay, Cotswold, Shetland, Katahdin, and Delaine Merino. Their website is: www.kelmscott.org LInda, your sweater sounds very pretty. It is always interesting to hear what others are doing with their Jacob wool. I am experimenting with an "unspun" Jacob hat made on a peg loom. I got the idea from Spin-Off when they showed an unspun vest made with roving. I might try felting it in the washing machine after it is knitted. Has anyone else tried this? Mary Spahr -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.pairlist.net/pipermail/jacob-list/attachments/20001122/ebf9d561/attachment.html From hettick.1 at osu.edu Wed Nov 22 11:06:43 2000 From: hettick.1 at osu.edu (Heather Hettick) Date: Wed Feb 2 07:52:29 2005 Subject: [Jacob-list] fiber things In-Reply-To: <200011212305.SAA02445@mail> Message-ID: I'm spinning the white from Spahr Farm Kimberly and plan to dye it to make machine knitted hats for Christmas presents - my first experiment with two color knitting on the machine. I'm also spinning her black to ply with Taco the llama's wool for a crocheted cardigan sweater I've been working on for myself. I just bought a beautiful black BL lambs fleece from a local friend and my husband doesn't understand why I would possibly need more wool, but it's fun to work with a different kind of wool sometimes, and we exchange sheep contacts - like word of mouth advertising. I'm also trying to warp a little loom with some of the Jacob wool pool yarn that I have to make a little fleece rug, but I am not finding it very enjoyable at this point - maybe when I get to the actual weaving part. and Mary: Last year I crocheted a rug, a hat and a potholder with unspun roving and a large crochet hook. I felted all the items. The rug got second place in our county fair this year and is very soft and useful as our bathroom rug. The hat that I made for my husband is extremely warm and soft so I actually use it more than he does on cold winter mornings feeding the sheep. Heather Hettick Moonstruck Jacob Sheep Creston, OH hettick.1@osu.edu -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.pairlist.net/pipermail/jacob-list/attachments/20001122/cb147640/attachment.htm From oberlef at desupernet.net Wed Nov 22 12:46:11 2000 From: oberlef at desupernet.net (dave & katrina) Date: Wed Feb 2 07:52:29 2005 Subject: [Jacob-list] lamb munchies... Message-ID: <000d01c054ac$312e4d40$26212940@dl1009203> Hi listers- I am enjoying hearing what products people are making from their flocks. Thanks for bringing it up, Mary. We have been so pleased with our Jacobs just for the humor they bring and the work they are doing getting the pastures in shape that now the products seem like icing on the cake. For the last few years, we have been involved with a group of artistians in Lancaster, PA in coming together once or twice a year for something we call Art on the Farm. We gather in an old stone barn owned by close friends of ours and everyone displays their art/handywork from the past year. In the past, I have sold herbal products, but am considering having a Jacob stand next year. Since AOTF takes place in Nov. warm wool products, ect, seems like a great addition to the atmosphere. I have been having fun thinking up as many different things as possible that can be made from our flock. We are only beginning to explore all the possiblities on the wool side of things (winter should be helpful), but have recently butchered lamb and have been very pleased with the result. The skins are in the barn drying out and we have saved the horns in hopes of experimenting with buttons. Has anyone tried making them? They seem a bit big and flat in places but have very interesting rings of color on the inside. Black, of course, as the outer ring. Could be interesting. We have been pleasantly surprised by the taste of the grass-feed lamb. Delicious even as hamburger! It didn't seem to have the high ratio of fat we have seen in other lamb. Our butcher told stories of 4 inches of fat on lambs that were brought in to his shop. After 9 hours of labor on the butcher's part, the owner complained about how little meat he got from his lambs. Has anyone ever made bologna or jerky from lamb? Our butcher said he would be happy to experiment with either. He said the problem he runs into with bologna is that the end product is too dry, so he is adding a percentage beef. And of course the dog is happy... the butcher sent a bag of bones along with the meat. He also showed us beef bones he smokes for dogs...they looked almost good enough for people food. Might ask him to try some lamb bones next time. By the way Linda B., thanks for all the info you have offered in past posts on cooking lamb. I went back to the archives and found it very helpful. Looks like we may be eating a bit more red meat from now on. :) Happy Holidays everyone. Katrina Lefever, Chicory Lane. http://wwwfac.wmdc.edu/HTMLpages/Graduate/TI/pages/lefever/chicory.htm -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.pairlist.net/pipermail/jacob-list/attachments/20001122/290646a7/attachment.html From Jacobflock at aol.com Wed Nov 22 15:18:31 2000 From: Jacobflock at aol.com (Jacobflock@aol.com) Date: Wed Feb 2 07:52:29 2005 Subject: [Jacob-list] lamb munchies... Message-ID: Fred Horak here. We have had breakfast patties made from lamb. We had them made up in two pound "tubes" the first time. We have changed to one pound tubes so it moves faster from freezer to refrigerator to pan. We had three lambs analyzed for USDA and FDA comparison. The analysis was done by Siliker Labs, an authorized/approved, national food testing lab. The Jacob lamb had less fat content than the normal found in "lamb" but the difference was determined to be not statistically different. This is the fat content "in the lamb" not on the lamb. Our butcher is fascinated by our Jacobs; lean, yet have almost as much finished meat as the larger "fat" lambs. Fred From oberlef at desupernet.net Wed Nov 22 15:53:50 2000 From: oberlef at desupernet.net (dave & katrina) Date: Wed Feb 2 07:52:29 2005 Subject: [Jacob-list] lamb munchies... Message-ID: <001c01c054c6$51c69340$5c202940@dl1009203> Interesting, Fred. I think the comparison between fat on the lamb vs fat in the lamb is an important distinction. I would have thought there was little to no difference in the fat 'in the lamb'. Interesting that a small difference was found. I would guess the amount of fat 'on the lamb' is not only a breed characteristic, but also is affected by the diet of the flock. (Butchers who take the time to cut off excess fat make a difference too, I guess.) I wonder about the nutritional differences between breeds...but that is a whole other subject. (smile.) What has turned me off in lamb up to this point is thick layers of fat 'on the lamb'. I am not that much of a meat eater that I can just gulp it down with the meat. Instead I have spent time painstakingly cutting the fat off the meat before preparing it. What a pain. In one of the old posts from the archives, Kathy of Sunbriar flock said lamb fat that has cooled is like eating wax. (In fact, she mentioned that it can be used as candle wax, since it is so hard at room temp!) That has been my experience. Kathy also mentioned in the same post some delicious smoked lamb...Kathy, do you (or anyone else) have any info on how it is made? Mary M.- Nice to know you had good results with jerky. My husband is dying to try it. Thanks. Katrina, ChicoryLane. http://wwwfac.wmdc.edu/HTMLpages/Graduate/TI/pages/lefever/chicory.htm -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.pairlist.net/pipermail/jacob-list/attachments/20001122/e3c39f33/attachment.htm From wolfpen at rabun.net Wed Nov 22 16:07:13 2000 From: wolfpen at rabun.net (linda) Date: Wed Feb 2 07:52:29 2005 Subject: [Jacob-list] lamb munchies... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <200011222111.QAA11425@mail> That's interesting, Fred. We started out with meat sheep. We were like your butcher when we first butchered a Jacob lamb. It was a smaller animal, but had just as much meat. A suffolk/hamphire lamb would weigh quite abit more and then we would cut a thick layer of fat. When we sell freezer lambs, we sell by the carcass weight, which does include the the fat "on the lamb." It's a big selling point that a higher percentage of the carcass weight is good quality meat, not fat, in our lambs. On Wed, 22 Nov 2000 15:18:31 EST, wrote: >Fred Horak here. We have had breakfast patties made from lamb. We had them >made up in two pound "tubes" the first time. We have changed to one pound >tubes so it moves faster from freezer to refrigerator to pan. > >We had three lambs analyzed for USDA and FDA comparison. The analysis was >done by Siliker Labs, an authorized/approved, national food testing lab. The >Jacob lamb had less fat content than the normal found in "lamb" but the >difference was determined to be not statistically different. This is the fat >content "in the lamb" not on the lamb. Our butcher is fascinated by our >Jacobs; lean, yet have almost as much finished meat as the larger "fat" >lambs. Fred > >_______________________________________________ >Jacob-list mailing list >Jacob-list@jacobsheep.com >http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/jacob-list www.PatchworkFibers.com Registered Jacob Sheep -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.pairlist.net/pipermail/jacob-list/attachments/20001122/f677e448/attachment.html From jcuster at rconnect.com Wed Nov 22 19:37:57 2000 From: jcuster at rconnect.com (Jeanne Custer) Date: Wed Feb 2 07:52:29 2005 Subject: [Jacob-list] book title Message-ID: <00b101c054e5$a0bda140$b515a3d1@cstj02> I am interested in the name and author of the book that has been referenced on this list occasionally. I would like to give it as a gift. I believe it is specifically about Jacobs. Thanks for your help. Jeanne Custer Lustleigh Farm Lake City, MN -----Original Message----- From: Jacobflock@aol.com To: oberlef@desupernet.net ; jacob-list@jacobsheep.com Date: Wednesday, November 22, 2000 2:19 PM Subject: Re: [Jacob-list] lamb munchies... >Fred Horak here. We have had breakfast patties made from lamb. We had them >made up in two pound "tubes" the first time. We have changed to one pound >tubes so it moves faster from freezer to refrigerator to pan. > >We had three lambs analyzed for USDA and FDA comparison. The analysis was >done by Siliker Labs, an authorized/approved, national food testing lab. The >Jacob lamb had less fat content than the normal found in "lamb" but the >difference was determined to be not statistically different. This is the fat >content "in the lamb" not on the lamb. Our butcher is fascinated by our >Jacobs; lean, yet have almost as much finished meat as the larger "fat" >lambs. Fred > >_______________________________________________ >Jacob-list mailing list >Jacob-list@jacobsheep.com >http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/jacob-list > From jcuster at rconnect.com Wed Nov 22 19:36:51 2000 From: jcuster at rconnect.com (Jeanne Custer) Date: Wed Feb 2 07:52:29 2005 Subject: [Jacob-list] lamb munchies... Message-ID: <00ae01c054e5$998a5e40$b515a3d1@cstj02> I am interested in the name and author of the book that has been referenced on this list occasionally. I would like to give it as a gift. I believe it is specifically about Jacobs. Thanks for your help. Jeanne Custer Lustleigh Farm Lake City, MN -----Original Message----- From: Jacobflock@aol.com To: oberlef@desupernet.net ; jacob-list@jacobsheep.com Date: Wednesday, November 22, 2000 2:19 PM Subject: Re: [Jacob-list] lamb munchies... >Fred Horak here. We have had breakfast patties made from lamb. We had them >made up in two pound "tubes" the first time. We have changed to one pound >tubes so it moves faster from freezer to refrigerator to pan. > >We had three lambs analyzed for USDA and FDA comparison. The analysis was >done by Siliker Labs, an authorized/approved, national food testing lab. The >Jacob lamb had less fat content than the normal found in "lamb" but the >difference was determined to be not statistically different. This is the fat >content "in the lamb" not on the lamb. Our butcher is fascinated by our >Jacobs; lean, yet have almost as much finished meat as the larger "fat" >lambs. Fred > >_______________________________________________ >Jacob-list mailing list >Jacob-list@jacobsheep.com >http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/jacob-list > From bissell at usit.net Wed Nov 22 21:21:55 2000 From: bissell at usit.net (Edd Bissell) Date: Wed Feb 2 07:52:29 2005 Subject: [Jacob-list] hescock Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.20001123022155.009db360@pop.usit.net> At 08:14 PM 11/22/00 -0500, you wrote: >Thanks for the fill-in, Edd. Do you think there would be any value in checking out this flock? Anything that might be learned from it? I could probably get there in the spring and check it out. At this point, it is a bit too late to go cruising around the Maine Coastal waters for me! ============== I got this as a personal email but will answer it on the list - I have been queit for a long time and think I am WAY overdue for a long winded Jacobness disertation. Yes, I think anytime you can see some "original" type Jacobs - whether they be Hatch, Lesseau, Reynolds, Hescock, Painter, or any of the other way back younder breeders it would be worth your while - Although the foretomentioned flocks vary much in the originations, etc they are all old type flocks - Ms Hescock is probably the most unique flock in the US - and except for hers and probably Bill Jones In Kanses City [who also has some Lesseau lines] there are probably very few of them left - just the mumbo=jumbo, hodge-poge breedings that have incorporated every line possible to achieve the "perfect" Jacob. I like todays Jacobs - but they do not look like, and I am not saying that they should, what was out there 20 years ago. I believe that improvements are fine - but just like tomatoes that weigh up to 5 pounds or what ever they grow today they do NOT taste like they did when I was young. I personally like the old imperfect Jacobs back when Sue Thaxton, Ingrid, Luther, Barbara, and many, many other scratched around for. I would like to think that surely there are others beside Mazie, Bill Jones, Patrice Danielson, and a few other that are interested in what they looked like and would WANT to save them.......let's forget to close breedings, etc and try to save what few of these of these flock are still out there. Just as Luther and I found small flocks in the 80s there were out in the MidWest, Canada, etc I am sure if youall scout around you can still find little pools of these old type sheep - forget the fused hornes, rough wool, too dark or light, etc - that is what they were like and still are. Yes - by all means call up Mazie - go look at her flock - ask her questions - let her tell you of the trails of importation, quarantine, etc - let her show you how she used a color pen breeding technique that allowed to breed without getting too close in the males/females/ Let her tell you what she considers the differences between what she saw here in Jacobs and how they differ from what she imported. And for you new to the list Luther and I made a video many years ago - I am sure that there are still some copies out there somewhere - I have lost mine. We made a concerted effort to show the major different flock that were available at the time we made it - I made a trip to Mazies, also went west to Ingrids, Barbara, and Jackie - had some of the Evan Meyer, Bill Reynolds, Sue Thaxton, Hatch[from an old video he had] Luther, and others - call and tried 3 different times to get video of the Rockefeller flock but did not. If you can find or borrow one it is worth seeing I think - I have had some question the acuracy of some of our statement, etc but still think that it was fairly straing. --- Edd Bissell = Hidden View Farm = Rare and Primitive Breed Animals Scottish Blackface=Jacob=Barbados=Texas Dall=Navajo-Churro=Churro Hairsheep ====Tennessee Nervous Meat Goats = = Great Pyrenees LGDs===== = eddbissell.com = 423-475-4844 = 1435 Collins Road - New Market, Tennessee U.S.A. 37820 From joyew at jnlk.com Thu Nov 23 07:59:01 2000 From: joyew at jnlk.com (Wayne & Edie Van Valkenburg) Date: Wed Feb 2 07:52:29 2005 Subject: [Jacob-list] Beginnings Message-ID: <3A1D1494.64C3FD2@jnlk.com> Just though I would put in our findings about the appearance of the the early Jacob in this country from what we saw in 1982. The first time we saw a Jacob sheep was at the Maryland Sheep in Wool Festival when Suzanna Davies brought a few to exhibit. We fell in love with them and then began our quest. We visited Maizie's flock, Jacque Lasseau, and Fieldwood. We first visited Jacque's right after the first fire And the beginning of the new barn. Such a tragedy. As for his flock he had a very different theory for raising sheep. He raised them with the theory of bio-mass, the French way. From him we saw his spinning yarn and weaving, also he shared with us what a delicacy the Jacob lamb was in France. In the better restaurants that is the only lamb they would serve. The size of his Jacob were smaller and appeared to have more black which appeared to me to be more a brown than black. They all had the basic Jacob markings including the legs . He had just purchased a 4-horn ram from Maizie and was pleased to show him off. On to Maizie's, what a glorious sight. The ewes were out in the pasture but she had 16 rams all in an area together. They were larger, more with white legs and various horn structures. We have a picture of them. She had a very nice room set up with the Jacob fleeces , and many knitted garments. It was a sight to behold. We ended our foray at the Fieldwood farm. Such a beautiful place to raise Jacob. They had pasture in the shade and we saw Isaac and Rebecca, their first. Absolutely beautiful. Both Maize's and Suzanna's seemed to be more of a black than brown on the tip. Subsequently, we were able to purchase 4-horn wether with the beginning of a split. Nothing else was available at that time. He was beautiful, loved and we promoted the Jacob everywhere we went. The next year we purchased some from here in N.J. the originals came from the Chicago Zoo and were just as beautiful and met the criteria we had seen on our trip. We gratefully were able to lease Isaac from the Fieldwood Farm and we had a ewe from them that was British Registered. We were on our way. The next year we trekked to Maizie' and purchased a ram from her. That was the background of our flock. Plus a ewe out of Fieldwood Albert. We have line bred to keep the flock as close to the original as possible with 4 lines of ewes that can trace their ancestry back to the original importation. They are the "S" , "J", "B", and "H" lines. Although occasionally we have gone out for a ram, they have all traced their lines to Lassau and Fieldwood and Hescock's. It is interesting to observe the diversity, when you seek to preserve and conserve the breed. Wayne & Edie , Joy Farm From spahrfarm at dragonbbs.com Fri Nov 24 12:00:20 2000 From: spahrfarm at dragonbbs.com (Jim Spahr) Date: Wed Feb 2 07:52:29 2005 Subject: [Jacob-list] Jacob Books Message-ID: <002701c05638$0a693c00$b696453f@cyrix> The books that I have that are specifically about Jacob sheep are: A History of Jacob Sheep, by Araminta Aldington, and Jacob Sheep in America, by Ingrid Painter. Mary Spahr -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.pairlist.net/pipermail/jacob-list/attachments/20001124/56862e02/attachment.htm From BIDEWEE at aol.com Fri Nov 24 14:08:10 2000 From: BIDEWEE at aol.com (BIDEWEE@aol.com) Date: Wed Feb 2 07:52:29 2005 Subject: [Jacob-list] Jacob Books & Lamb Bologna Message-ID: <8f.3621734.2750169a@aol.com> Regarding A History of Jacob Sheep, by Araminta Aldington, and Jacob Sheep in America, by Ingrid Painter.... Ingrid's book is really terrific. You can find information about it on her website at: http://www.puddleduckfarm.net/jacob.html It will also be listed on the JSBA logo order form in the December JSBA newsletter. The Aldington book can be ordered at: http://www.amazon.co.uk Also, thought I'd report in that we regularly have lamb summer sausage (bologna), pepperoni and jerky made by our local butcher. He uses 100% lamb meat and it's all delicious. We generally use older intact rams and have never noticed a 'ram-y' or muttony taste. Karen Lobb ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ -------------------- bide a wee farm ~ registered Jacob & Navajo-Churro sheep bideawee@iname.com / www.bideaweefarm.com 19562 NE Calkins Lane ~ Newberg, OR 97132 ~ (503) 538-7987 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.pairlist.net/pipermail/jacob-list/attachments/20001124/2c7b1633/attachment.html From joyew at mindspring.com Sun Nov 26 07:54:44 2000 From: joyew at mindspring.com (Wayne & Edie Van Valkenburg) Date: Wed Feb 2 07:52:29 2005 Subject: [Jacob-list] E-MAIL CHANGE Message-ID: <3A210814.19B8A798@mindspring.com> PLEASE NOTE THE CHANGE IN OUR E-MAIL ADDRESS . IT IS NO LONGER joyew@jnlk.com. CHANGED TO: joyew@mindspring.com Thanks to all. Wayne & Edie Van valkenburg, Joy Farm From joyew at mindspring.com Sun Nov 26 10:50:19 2000 From: joyew at mindspring.com (Wayne & Edie Van Valkenburg) Date: Wed Feb 2 07:52:29 2005 Subject: [Jacob-list] E-MAIL CHANGE Message-ID: <3A21313A.53DA80E0@mindspring.com> OUR E- MAIL ADDRESS HAS CHANGED It is now joyew@mindspring.com Thanks everyone that notes it. Wayne & Edie Van Valkenburg, Joy Farm From oberlef at desupernet.net Sun Nov 26 13:24:21 2000 From: oberlef at desupernet.net (dave & katrina) Date: Wed Feb 2 07:52:29 2005 Subject: [Jacob-list] Shepherdess sampler circa 1780 Message-ID: <001a01c057d6$1bd90840$bd202940@dl1009203> I was surfing the net recently and came across a website http://www.scarlet-letter.com/RepSamDesp/18thEng/S&SJacobSheep.htm that was selling antique cross-stitch reproduction sampler kits, one of which was called Shepherd and Shepherdess with Jacob sheep, England, circa 1780. It shows 2 people beside a tree with a few spotted sheep around them. The sampler is described as protraying a common theme of the time as 'admiration for the innocence and simplicity of rural life....Harking back to engagement pictures of the 17th century, these refined and elegant shepherdesses are courted by equally genteel shepherds.' The desciption of this piece goes on to describe Jacobs as 'a rare, hardy and ancient breed recently brought back from the brink of extinction. Jacob sheep were known as Park sheep: aesthetically pleasing with their distinct spots and multiple horns, they grazed the lands around large estates and came to be associated with the wealthy landowning class.' Has anyone else happened across this site? I thought it is fun to see Jacobs showing up in the art of the times. Katrina Lefever, Chicory Lane Farm -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.pairlist.net/pipermail/jacob-list/attachments/20001126/38710643/attachment.htm From iseespots at email.msn.com Sun Nov 26 14:43:50 2000 From: iseespots at email.msn.com (iseespots) Date: Wed Feb 2 07:52:29 2005 Subject: [Jacob-list] Shepherdess sampler circa 1780 References: <001a01c057d6$1bd90840$bd202940@dl1009203> Message-ID: <001001c057e1$34ed5100$15af0f3f@pavilion> Katrina and all, The Scarlett-letter site is one associated with Marsha and Tad Van Valin's business. They are the owners of Smoke Ham Farm in Wisconsin and helped co-host the AGM a couple years back. I don't think Marsha has lots of Jacob sheep right now, but they have owned and built flocks of a number of rare breed sheep during the past number of years----really great people. Mary Ellen ISeeSpots Farm www.iseespots.com Home of Jacob Sheep, Shetland Sheep, and German Angora Rabbits, colored German Angora crosses. Renewable fleeces, loving personalities, friends. From oberlef at desupernet.net Sun Nov 26 17:54:31 2000 From: oberlef at desupernet.net (dave & katrina) Date: Wed Feb 2 07:52:29 2005 Subject: [Jacob-list] Shepherdess sampler circa 1780 References: <001a01c057d6$1bd90840$bd202940@dl1009203> <001001c057e1$34ed5100$15af0f3f@pavilion> Message-ID: <000e01c057fb$d74c8d20$44202940@dl1009203> Ahh-h. Makes sense. Katrina ----- Original Message ----- From: "iseespots" To: "dave & katrina" ; "jacob-list" Sent: Sunday, November 26, 2000 2:43 PM Subject: Re: [Jacob-list] Shepherdess sampler circa 1780 > Katrina and all, > > The Scarlett-letter site is one associated with Marsha and Tad Van Valin's > business. They are the owners of Smoke Ham Farm in Wisconsin and helped > co-host the AGM a couple years back. I don't think Marsha has lots of Jacob > sheep right now, but they have owned and built flocks of a number of rare > breed sheep during the past number of years----really great people. > > Mary Ellen > ISeeSpots Farm www.iseespots.com > Home of Jacob Sheep, Shetland Sheep, > and German Angora Rabbits, colored German Angora crosses. > Renewable fleeces, loving personalities, friends. > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Jacob-list mailing list > Jacob-list@jacobsheep.com > http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/jacob-list > From iseespots at email.msn.com Mon Nov 27 12:12:18 2000 From: iseespots at email.msn.com (iseespots) Date: Wed Feb 2 07:52:29 2005 Subject: [Jacob-list] us fsa sheep improvement program question Message-ID: <000901c05895$3381f460$a0af0f3f@pavilion> Hi all, Remember the 3 year program that had it's first year's deadline on October 1 of 2000? I got my paperwork in and verbally approved by the local fsa office manager on the 28th of September. I was told that payment would probably be made by November 1st, and assuming the govt. was involved, I have waited a few extra weeks to get notification of my payment. Well, today, I called him up to find out where the process had gotten slowed down. He informs me that he has no documentation of payment for the animals/application was not completed, AND to make the story just a little more palatable (since I had all receipts with me and they diddled around at length to make sure everything was correct when I was filling out the form IN THEIR OFFICE), he tells me they have not yet heard HOW or WHEN to make any of these payments. He also said they just took in a few more applications just last week! What are you experiences on this? Am I sitting in the universal same position as all the rest of you who applied, or is there a particular document or phone number I can give my local fsa person to get him up to speed with the program. His explanation was, "this is just how the government works" like that was supposed to make me happy and go away quietly. Mary Ellen ISeeSpots Farm www.iseespots.com Home of Jacob Sheep, Shetland Sheep, and German Angora Rabbits, colored German Angora crosses. Renewable fleeces, loving personalities, friends. From sbennett at teleport.com Mon Nov 27 12:40:49 2000 From: sbennett at teleport.com (sbennett) Date: Wed Feb 2 07:52:29 2005 Subject: [Jacob-list] wool projects Message-ID: <20001127174315.D7F8C3C122@pairlist.net> I have hand felted a couple of hats with Jacob wool. It felts really fast, so you have to be especially particular about laying it out. Jacob wool is the "softest to the touch" of all the breeds and blends I've felted with (on par with Merino, but Merino shrinks a lot more than Jacob). I was thinking of trying a felt vest or coat since it feels so nice and cozy. I've knitted and wash machine felted a couple times, but not with Jacob wool. Felting in the wash machine is not as easy as most directions make it sound. You have to pour really hot water into the machine (unless you have your hot water temperature turned way up). It usually takes at least three times through (one project took 6 times through before it even started to shrink and felt). It worked better to throw a couple towels in with the felt project, instead of only having the one piece in the washer. Let us know how it turns out. Debbie Bennett Feral Fibre > >LInda, your sweater sounds very pretty. It is always interesting to hear >what others are doing with their Jacob wool. I am experimenting with an >"unspun" Jacob hat made on a peg loom. I got the idea from Spin-Off when >they showed an unspun vest made with roving. I might try felting it in >the washing machine after it is knitted. Has anyone else tried this? > > > Mary Spahr From Robvcas at aol.com Mon Nov 27 17:05:50 2000 From: Robvcas at aol.com (Robvcas@aol.com) Date: Wed Feb 2 07:52:29 2005 Subject: [Jacob-list] us fsa sheep improvement program question Message-ID: Hi Mary Ellen, I fared a little better than you with the FSA. I got ALL those receipts and paperwork in just under the deadline, and got a check direct deposited for the 20% of material costs about 3 weeks ago. I'm still waiting for the ram reimbusement check, I don't know why they weren't processed together. It must be a government secret ! I suspect that the individual offices and agents have varying degrees of understanding the details of how the grant is administered. Robin Casasanto -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.pairlist.net/pipermail/jacob-list/attachments/20001127/95630581/attachment.html From dschultz at waypt.com Mon Nov 27 20:12:52 2000 From: dschultz at waypt.com (Dennis Schultz) Date: Wed Feb 2 07:52:29 2005 Subject: Fw: [Jacob-list] us fsa sheep improvement program question Message-ID: <003d01c058d9$03023e00$46d542cf@dschultz> ----- Original Message ----- From: Dennis Schultz To: iseespots Sent: Monday, November 27, 2000 5:07 PM Subject: Re: [Jacob-list] us fsa sheep improvement program question > I sent in my application with copies of receipts, etc about 10/7 and > received my payment about two weeks later. > > Denny > > Dennis and Barbara Schultz > Green Water Farm > Port Townsend, WA > www.greenwaterfarm.com > From kseaman at pacificrim.net Mon Nov 27 21:39:37 2000 From: kseaman at pacificrim.net (Kathi Seaman) Date: Wed Feb 2 07:52:29 2005 Subject: [Jacob-list] Lambing season(s) and Ram References: <20001127174315.D7F8C3C122@pairlist.net> Message-ID: <003701c058e4$75ec92c0$5fe4ecc7@default> It is my understanding that Jacobs are a primitive breed and as such I thought they lambed only once per year. My Barbs and St. Croix (hair sheep) are known for producing lambs twice in a year. My Jacob ewes lambed in early May 2000 and I just had my first set of twins born this morning from one of those same mothers. Does anyone have any ideas? Is this a normal occurrence or might it have been the fact that there were St. Croix ewes cycling around them and that brought the Jacobs into season early? The ram was in with them all year but still I thought they wouldn't breed until later in the year. BTW-I only had three adult ewes that were bred to this two year old, two horned ram and he has produced seven lambs so far (five last May and two this morning) and the count is 6 EWE LAMBS, 1 ram lamb. Now, even though he is a wonderful registered boy from Swallow Lane, I have had no one interested in him to buy ($100 FOB) and since I don't want to breed him to my girls again next year he is marked for the butcher some time this week. If anyone is interested please let me know ASAP. Kathi Seaman Jacobs, Barbados and St. Croix sheep Washington State From messen at socket.net Mon Nov 27 22:10:49 2000 From: messen at socket.net (Mark Essen) Date: Wed Feb 2 07:52:29 2005 Subject: [Jacob-list] us fsa sheep improvement program question References: <000901c05895$3381f460$a0af0f3f@pavilion> Message-ID: <000301c058ea$03fa49e0$64e1fea9@oemcomputer> I guess I should feel fortunate. Our FSA people are not always fast, but they are very busy. This time, however, I took my paperwork in on October 27, and received a direct deposit into my checking account right at three weeks later. This was for rams and improvements, both together in one deposit. A neighbor who does not have a checking account received a check in the mail right at three weeks after he turned in his paperwork. If anybody wants to move to a good slow county with fast government employees, the farm down the road is for sale. Mark Essen Famous Acres 6701 County Road 353 Fulton, Mo. 65251 (573)642-0350 messen@socket.net Jacobs 4-Horn Sheep, Pygmy Goats, Pyrenees, Peafowl, Turkeys, Highland Cattle, Yak, Emu, Fallow Deer, Zebu Cattle all living together in the Kingdom of Callaway ----- Original Message ----- From: iseespots To: *Jacob discussion group Sent: Monday, November 27, 2000 11:12 AM Subject: [Jacob-list] us fsa sheep improvement program question > Hi all, > > Remember the 3 year program that had it's first year's deadline on October 1 > of 2000? I got my paperwork in and verbally approved by the local fsa > office manager on the 28th of September. I was told that payment would > probably be made by November 1st, and assuming the govt. was involved, I > have waited a few extra weeks to get notification of my payment. Well, > today, I called him up to find out where the process had gotten slowed down. > He informs me that he has no documentation of payment for the > animals/application was not completed, AND to make the story just a little > more palatable (since I had all receipts with me and they diddled around at > length to make sure everything was correct when I was filling out the form > IN THEIR OFFICE), he tells me they have not yet heard HOW or WHEN to make > any of these payments. He also said they just took in a few more > applications just last week! > > What are you experiences on this? Am I sitting in the universal same > position as all the rest of you who applied, or is there a particular > document or phone number I can give my local fsa person to get him up to > speed with the program. His explanation was, "this is just how the > government works" like that was supposed to make me happy and go away > quietly. > > Mary Ellen > ISeeSpots Farm www.iseespots.com > Home of Jacob Sheep, Shetland Sheep, > and German Angora Rabbits, colored German Angora crosses. > Renewable fleeces, loving personalities, friends. > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Jacob-list mailing list > Jacob-list@jacobsheep.com > http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/jacob-list From SJohn21855 at aol.com Tue Nov 28 06:42:22 2000 From: SJohn21855 at aol.com (SJohn21855@aol.com) Date: Wed Feb 2 07:52:29 2005 Subject: [Jacob-list] (no subject) Message-ID: <28.da1ff30.2754f41e@aol.com> Hi all, Boy, do I have a question for you guys and gals! I got in touch with the lady who had my fiber and guess what? Her barn burned down along with all of the fiber that had been sent to her. Now she is asking me to send her a fair market value and she will send me a check. Now for the question. I have never sold any wool and I no longer have the ewe that this wool came from she was the one that died last year. She was a Black Cotswold with REALLY nice wool (it stands to reason, you always loose the best). It was extremely soft and hung in ringlets. It was ten inches long! Should I charge her by the pound? Does anyone have any idea how much I should charge? I am so bummed. It was beautiful wool. It had black, gray, white and even some apricot coloring in it. Anyway, your thoughts would be appreciated. God bless, Shelly From blotham at sigecom.net Tue Nov 28 09:26:55 2000 From: blotham at sigecom.net (Aaron and Abigail Brown) Date: Wed Feb 2 07:52:29 2005 Subject: [Jacob-list] us fsa sheep improvement program question References: Message-ID: <00b501c05947$45b4c9c0$7ed0453f@sigecom.net> Skipped content of type multipart/alternative-------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: image/jpeg Size: 2743 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.pairlist.net/pipermail/jacob-list/attachments/20001128/27a03fcc/attachment.jpe From BIDEWEE at aol.com Tue Nov 28 14:03:20 2000 From: BIDEWEE at aol.com (BIDEWEE@aol.com) Date: Wed Feb 2 07:52:29 2005 Subject: [Jacob-list] Re: FSA Ram & Facilities Rebates Message-ID: Robin C. - if you haven't already called to check on your facilities payment you might want to. I took our ram/facilities rebate application in on the deadline, Friday 10/13 and they disbursed funds on the ram portion the following Monday. I hadn't received anything on the facilities portion by the end of Oct so I e-mailed them. They sent a note back saying they had somehow 'missed' the facilities portion when the ram payment was made and they disbursed funds the next day. Just in case anyone needs details and the web site for the new wool payment program - here info from the Oregon Sheep Growers Assoc. newsletter... Farmers who produced and sheared wool and/or mohair in 1999 may be eligible for a new USDA payment program. ?Sign up for the new program began October 10, 2000 and ends December 29, 2000. ?Applications are available from Farm Service Agency (FSA) county offices and over the Internet at: ?www.fsa.usda.gov/dafp/psd/ This program was approved earlier this year as part of the Agricultural Risk Protection Act 2000. ?Approximately $11 million was allocated for wool and mohair payments. ?The payment rate is 20 cents per pound for wool and 40 cents per pound for mohair. ?For more information about this new program call or visit your nearest FSA County Office or visit the FSA website at: ?www.fsa.usda.gov Karen L. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ -------------------- bide a wee farm ~ registered Jacob & Navajo-Churro sheep bideawee@iname.com / www.bideaweefarm.com 19562 NE Calkins Lane ~ Newberg, OR 97132 ~ (503) 538-7987 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.pairlist.net/pipermail/jacob-list/attachments/20001128/bdc524a8/attachment.htm From spahrfarm at dragonbbs.com Tue Nov 28 16:55:11 2000 From: spahrfarm at dragonbbs.com (Jim Spahr) Date: Wed Feb 2 07:52:29 2005 Subject: [Jacob-list] Fleece Prices Message-ID: <003801c05985$e2aa2de0$ab96453f@cyrix> Shelly, Sorry to hear that your fiber processor lost her barn and you lost your Cotswold fleece. I do not know what raw Cotswold fleece sells for, but we have sold our skirted Jacob fleeces for $6 and $7/lb, so I would think it would be worth at least that much. Has everyone turned in their lbs. of fleece sheared this year for the .20/lb. govt. payment? The deadline is coming up soon. I need to get ours turned in right away. Mary Spahr -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.pairlist.net/pipermail/jacob-list/attachments/20001128/a475dc79/attachment.html From Robvcas at aol.com Tue Nov 28 18:22:09 2000 From: Robvcas at aol.com (Robvcas@aol.com) Date: Wed Feb 2 07:52:29 2005 Subject: [Jacob-list] Re: FSA Ram & Facilities Rebates Message-ID: In a message dated 11/28/00 2:04:52 PM Eastern Standard Time, BIDEWEE@aol.com writes: > if you haven't already called to check on your facilities payment > you might want to. Thanks for the advice, Karen, I called this afternoon to ask why I had gotten the facilities reimbusement but not the ram payment. The woman who processed my paperwork said "Oops, didn't see that page ! " She said she'd send out the ram payment quickly. Robin -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.pairlist.net/pipermail/jacob-list/attachments/20001128/74ed5003/attachment.htm From SharHill at aol.com Tue Nov 28 23:47:23 2000 From: SharHill at aol.com (SharHill@aol.com) Date: Wed Feb 2 07:52:29 2005 Subject: [Jacob-list] re: lending out our ram Message-ID: <9a.ca11096.2755e45b@aol.com> Hi all, I need some advice from someone more experienced in sheep raising etiquette than I am. Someone near me who runs a petting zoo of sorts has 5 Barbados ewes, and he wants to borrow, for a fee, our Jacob ram to breed them. I don't really want to do it as I don't want to expose the ram to the diseases or parasites that the other sheep could possibly have. I also don't want his sheep here for the same reason, and also since we have no grass after this year's drought. Am I being overly cautious? He kept referring to my Jacobs as "Jacobson sheep" even though I several times referred to them as Jacobs. It sort of bugged me. I know I don't have to do anything I don't want to, but would it be unreasonable or rude to refuse? On an amusing note, to follow up the thread on animal tales and fiber stuff...Last night we had a power outage for about 4 hours as a result of a squirrel playing on the power lines. We live in a 150 year old farm house with fireplaces, so we had a fire going to keep warm and I decided to spin Patchwork Dixie's wool by the light of an oil lamp and candles. Very cozy. Just like the olden days, I thought. It wasn't very bright, but I could see enough to spin. I haven't been a spinner for very long, so I am not very fast, but I seemed to be zooming through the predrafted rolags I was using. I was patting myself on the back for improving so much. When the lights came on I found big hunks of several of the rolags on the floor that the kitten had secretly torn off as they hung over the side of my leg as I was spinning. She even had one wrapped around her as evidence. So much for my explosive growth in spinning expertise. Sharon From stonecroft235 at juno.com Wed Nov 29 08:11:19 2000 From: stonecroft235 at juno.com (stonecroft235@juno.com) Date: Wed Feb 2 07:52:29 2005 Subject: [Jacob-list] (no subject) Message-ID: <20001129.081120.-251189.1.stonecroft235@juno.com> Hi Sharon: Regarding whether or not to rent out your ram for breeding - let me share my sad story. We bought a ram from a flock that did routine OPP testing - very nice ram with a "teddy bear" disposition and "to die for" fleece. I was approached by another Jacob breeder in the area whose son shows Jacobs in the local 4-H competitions about whether they could bring their three ewes here for breeding - very nice people - and as I thought about the extra money and the fact that I would be helping further Jacobs in the community, I agreed. The ewes were here for 2 months. About 7-8 months later I tested (for the first time) for OPP and discovered that the ram was positive - and was positive on subsequent testing....but my ewes were negative. It would appear that the only possible explanation would have been exposure during the time the off farm ewes were here - and I had observed that one of those ewes consistently had a snotty nose although appeared healthy otherwise - and those ewes had never been tested for OPP. OPP is a fatal disease, it is a contagious disease - and it is spread by close contact within the flock. We determined that we wanted to preserve the integrity of our flock and maintain an OPP-free status - so we got rid of the ram - and subsequently purchased a new ram from an OPP-free flock. Certainly the issue of sharing a ram is ultimately up the discretion of each owner - but keep in mind it definitely does significantly increase risk for not only transmittable disease but also parasites and foot conditions. We have taken the position here that we will never again bring in other sheep for breeding and our ram will never leave for breeding purposes. When we first purchased Jacob sheep, we were told by another sheep grower that "sheep are constantly searching for ways to die" - and there is some truth to that. Jacobs are very hardy and one of the easiest breeds to raise - but there are alot of health issues to be aware of and to watch for - and we have opted to attempt to make our job as easy as possible by limiting potential transmission of disease/parasites. We will continue to test for OPP, will buy from only OPP-free flocks and every new animal we purchase is quarantined before introduction to the flock - and during that time is aggressively treated for parasites. And, we know that despite all these measures and our best intentions, disease, parasites, foot rot or some other condition could STILL rear it's ugly head!!!! Sue Martin Stonecroft Manor ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. From ekn at together.net Wed Nov 29 09:16:58 2000 From: ekn at together.net (Elizabeth K. Norsworthy) Date: Wed Feb 2 07:52:29 2005 Subject: [Jacob-list] Re: Jacob-list digest, Vol 1 #161 - 13 msgs References: <20001128142559.544AC3C140@pairlist.net> Message-ID: <001a01c05a0f$0a856ee0$fa375bd1@pavilion> Mary Ellen -- I think your problem is local. I had no problem at all with signing up through our local farm service agency. In fact, they went out of their way to do some extra checking to see how the details of the program worked. Lisa Norsworthy Winterbrook Farm Concord, Vermont ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Tuesday, November 28, 2000 9:25 AM Subject: Jacob-list digest, Vol 1 #161 - 13 msgs > Send Jacob-list mailing list submissions to > jacob-list@jacobsheep.com > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/jacob-list > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > jacob-list-request@jacobsheep.com > > You can reach the person managing the list at > jacob-list-admin@jacobsheep.com > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of Jacob-list digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. E-MAIL CHANGE (Wayne & Edie Van Valkenburg) > 2. E-MAIL CHANGE (Wayne & Edie Van Valkenburg) > 3. Shepherdess sampler circa 1780 (dave & katrina) > 4. Re: Shepherdess sampler circa 1780 (iseespots) > 5. Re: Shepherdess sampler circa 1780 (dave & katrina) > 6. us fsa sheep improvement program question (iseespots) > 7. Re: wool projects (sbennett) > 8. Re: us fsa sheep improvement program question (Robvcas@aol.com) > 9. Fw: [Jacob-list] us fsa sheep improvement program question (Dennis Schultz) > 10. Lambing season(s) and Ram (Kathi Seaman) > 11. Re: us fsa sheep improvement program question (Mark Essen) > 12. (no subject) (SJohn21855@aol.com) > 13. Re: us fsa sheep improvement program question (Aaron and Abigail Brown) > > --__--__-- > > Message: 1 > Date: Sun, 26 Nov 2000 07:54:44 -0500 > From: Wayne & Edie Van Valkenburg > To: Ingrid Painter , > Jacob-list@jacobsheep.com, Mary Spahr , > wolfpen@mindspring.com, williams@jacobsheep.com, > Mary Spahr , > Royal Unzicker > Subject: [Jacob-list] E-MAIL CHANGE > > PLEASE NOTE THE CHANGE IN OUR E-MAIL ADDRESS . IT IS NO LONGER > joyew@jnlk.com. > CHANGED TO: joyew@mindspring.com > Thanks to all. > Wayne & Edie Van valkenburg, Joy Farm > > > > --__--__-- > > Message: 2 > Date: Sun, 26 Nov 2000 10:50:19 -0500 > From: Wayne & Edie Van Valkenburg > To: Jacob-list@jacobsheep.com > Subject: [Jacob-list] E-MAIL CHANGE > > OUR E- MAIL ADDRESS HAS CHANGED > It is now joyew@mindspring.com > Thanks everyone that notes it. > Wayne & Edie Van Valkenburg, Joy Farm > > > > --__--__-- > > Message: 3 > From: "dave & katrina" > To: "jacob-list" > Date: Sun, 26 Nov 2000 13:24:21 -0500 > boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0015_01C057AC.2F9A32C0" > Subject: [Jacob-list] Shepherdess sampler circa 1780 > > This is a multi-part message in MIME format. > > ------=_NextPart_000_0015_01C057AC.2F9A32C0 > Content-Type: text/plain; > charset="iso-8859-1" > Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > > I was surfing the net recently and came across a website = > http://www.scarlet-letter.com/RepSamDesp/18thEng/S&SJacobSheep.htm that = > was selling antique cross-stitch reproduction sampler kits, one of which = > was called Shepherd and Shepherdess with Jacob sheep, England, circa = > 1780. It shows 2 people beside a tree with a few spotted sheep around = > them. =20 > The sampler is described as protraying a common theme of the time as = > 'admiration for the innocence and simplicity of rural life....Harking = > back to engagement pictures of the 17th century, these refined and = > elegant shepherdesses are courted by equally genteel shepherds.' =20 > > The desciption of this piece goes on to describe Jacobs as 'a rare, = > hardy and ancient breed recently brought back from the brink of = > extinction. Jacob sheep were known as Park sheep: aesthetically pleasing = > with their distinct spots and multiple horns, they grazed the lands = > around large estates and came to be associated with the wealthy = > landowning class.' > Has anyone else happened across this site? I thought it is fun to see = > Jacobs showing up in the art of the times. =20 > Katrina Lefever, Chicory Lane Farm > > ------=_NextPart_000_0015_01C057AC.2F9A32C0 > Content-Type: text/html; > charset="iso-8859-1" > Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > > > > charset=3Diso-8859-1"> > > > > >
I was surfing the net = > recently and came=20 > across a website href=3D"http://www.scarlet-letter.com/RepSamDesp/18thEng/S&SJacobShee= > p.htm">http://www.scarlet-letter.com/RepSamDesp/18thEng/S&SJacobSheep= > .htm=20 > that was selling antique cross-stitch reproduction sampler kits, one of = > which=20 > was called Shepherd and Shepherdess with Jacob = > sheep, England,=20 > circa 1780. It shows 2 people beside a tree with a few spotted = > sheep=20 > around them.  
>

The sampler is described as = > protraying a=20 > common theme of the time as 'admiration for the innocence and simplicity = > of=20 > rural life....Harking back to engagement pictures of the 17th century, = > these=20 > refined and elegant shepherdesses are courted by equally genteel=20 > shepherds.' 

>
The desciption of this piece = > goes on to=20 > describe Jacobs as 'a rare, hardy and ancient breed recently brought = > back from=20 > the brink of extinction. Jacob sheep were known as Park sheep: = > aesthetically=20 > pleasing with their distinct spots and multiple horns, they grazed the = > lands=20 > around large estates and came to be associated with the wealthy = > landowning=20 > class.'
>
Has anyone else = > happened across=20 > this site? I thought it is fun to see Jacobs showing up in the art of = > the=20 > times. 
>
Katrina Lefever, Chicory Lane = > > Farm
> > ------=_NextPart_000_0015_01C057AC.2F9A32C0-- > > > > --__--__-- > > Message: 4 > From: "iseespots" > To: "dave & katrina" , > "jacob-list" > Subject: Re: [Jacob-list] Shepherdess sampler circa 1780 > Date: Sun, 26 Nov 2000 14:43:50 -0500 > > Katrina and all, > > The Scarlett-letter site is one associated with Marsha and Tad Van Valin's > business. They are the owners of Smoke Ham Farm in Wisconsin and helped > co-host the AGM a couple years back. I don't think Marsha has lots of Jacob > sheep right now, but they have owned and built flocks of a number of rare > breed sheep during the past number of years----really great people. > > Mary Ellen > ISeeSpots Farm www.iseespots.com > Home of Jacob Sheep, Shetland Sheep, > and German Angora Rabbits, colored German Angora crosses. > Renewable fleeces, loving personalities, friends. > > > > > > --__--__-- > > Message: 5 > From: "dave & katrina" > To: "iseespots" , > "jacob-list" > Subject: Re: [Jacob-list] Shepherdess sampler circa 1780 > Date: Sun, 26 Nov 2000 17:54:31 -0500 > charset="iso-8859-1" > > Ahh-h. Makes sense. Katrina > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "iseespots" > To: "dave & katrina" ; "jacob-list" > > Sent: Sunday, November 26, 2000 2:43 PM > Subject: Re: [Jacob-list] Shepherdess sampler circa 1780 > > > > Katrina and all, > > > > The Scarlett-letter site is one associated with Marsha and Tad Van Valin's > > business. They are the owners of Smoke Ham Farm in Wisconsin and helped > > co-host the AGM a couple years back. I don't think Marsha has lots of > Jacob > > sheep right now, but they have owned and built flocks of a number of rare > > breed sheep during the past number of years----really great people. > > > > Mary Ellen > > ISeeSpots Farm www.iseespots.com > > Home of Jacob Sheep, Shetland Sheep, > > and German Angora Rabbits, colored German Angora crosses. > > Renewable fleeces, loving personalities, friends. > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Jacob-list mailing list > > Jacob-list@jacobsheep.com > > http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/jacob-list > > > > > > --__--__-- > > Message: 6 > From: "iseespots" > To: "*Jacob discussion group" > Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2000 12:12:18 -0500 > Subject: [Jacob-list] us fsa sheep improvement program question > > Hi all, > > Remember the 3 year program that had it's first year's deadline on October 1 > of 2000? I got my paperwork in and verbally approved by the local fsa > office manager on the 28th of September. I was told that payment would > probably be made by November 1st, and assuming the govt. was involved, I > have waited a few extra weeks to get notification of my payment. Well, > today, I called him up to find out where the process had gotten slowed down. > He informs me that he has no documentation of payment for the > animals/application was not completed, AND to make the story just a little > more palatable (since I had all receipts with me and they diddled around at > length to make sure everything was correct when I was filling out the form > IN THEIR OFFICE), he tells me they have not yet heard HOW or WHEN to make > any of these payments. He also said they just took in a few more > applications just last week! > > What are you experiences on this? Am I sitting in the universal same > position as all the rest of you who applied, or is there a particular > document or phone number I can give my local fsa person to get him up to > speed with the program. His explanation was, "this is just how the > government works" like that was supposed to make me happy and go away > quietly. > > Mary Ellen > ISeeSpots Farm www.iseespots.com > Home of Jacob Sheep, Shetland Sheep, > and German Angora Rabbits, colored German Angora crosses. > Renewable fleeces, loving personalities, friends. > > > > > > --__--__-- > > Message: 7 > Subject: Re: [Jacob-list] wool projects > Date: Mon, 27 Nov 00 09:40:49 -0800 > From: sbennett > To: "Jacob List Members" > > I have hand felted a couple of hats with Jacob wool. It felts really > fast, so you have to be especially particular about laying it out. Jacob > wool is the "softest to the touch" of all the breeds and blends I've > felted with (on par with Merino, but Merino shrinks a lot more than > Jacob). I was thinking of trying a felt vest or coat since it feels so > nice and cozy. > > I've knitted and wash machine felted a couple times, but not with Jacob > wool. Felting in the wash machine is not as easy as most directions make > it sound. You have to pour really hot water into the machine (unless you > have your hot water temperature turned way up). It usually takes at least > three times through (one project took 6 times through before it even > started to shrink and felt). It worked better to throw a couple towels in > with the felt project, instead of only having the one piece in the washer. > > Let us know how it turns out. > > Debbie Bennett > Feral Fibre > > > > >LInda, your sweater sounds very pretty. It is always interesting to hear > >what others are doing with their Jacob wool. I am experimenting with an > >"unspun" Jacob hat made on a peg loom. I got the idea from Spin-Off when > >they showed an unspun vest made with roving. I might try felting it in > >the washing machine after it is knitted. Has anyone else tried this? > > > > > > Mary Spahr > > > --__--__-- > > Message: 8 > From: Robvcas@aol.com > Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2000 17:05:50 EST > Subject: Re: [Jacob-list] us fsa sheep improvement program question > To: iseespots@email.msn.com, jacob-list@jacobsheep.com (jacob-list) > > > --part1_bc.cc52d82.275434be_boundary > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > > Hi Mary Ellen, I fared a little better than you with the FSA. I got ALL > those receipts and paperwork in just under the deadline, and got a check > direct deposited for the 20% of material costs about 3 weeks ago. I'm still > waiting for the ram reimbusement check, I don't know why they weren't > processed together. It must be a government secret ! I suspect that the > individual offices and agents have varying degrees of understanding the > details of how the grant is administered. Robin Casasanto > > --part1_bc.cc52d82.275434be_boundary > Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > > Hi Mary Ellen, I fared a little better than you with the FSA.  I got ALL
those receipts and paperwork in just under the deadline, and got a check
direct deposited for the 20% of material costs about 3 weeks ago.  I'm still
waiting for the ram reimbusement check,  I don't know why they weren't
processed together.  It must be a government secret !  I suspect that the
individual offices and agents have varying degrees of understanding the
details of how the grant is administered.  Robin Casasanto > > --part1_bc.cc52d82.275434be_boundary-- > > > --__--__-- > > Message: 9 > From: "Dennis Schultz" > To: > Subject: Fw: [Jacob-list] us fsa sheep improvement program question > Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2000 17:12:52 -0800 > charset="iso-8859-1" > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Dennis Schultz > To: iseespots > Sent: Monday, November 27, 2000 5:07 PM > Subject: Re: [Jacob-list] us fsa sheep improvement program question > > > > I sent in my application with copies of receipts, etc about 10/7 and > > received my payment about two weeks later. > > > > Denny > > > > Dennis and Barbara Schultz > > Green Water Farm > > Port Townsend, WA > > www.greenwaterfarm.com > > > > > > --__--__-- > > Message: 10 > From: "Kathi Seaman" > To: "sbennett" , > "Jacob List Members" > Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2000 18:39:37 -0800 > Organization: Nooksack Valley S. D. > charset="iso-8859-1" > Subject: [Jacob-list] Lambing season(s) and Ram > > It is my understanding that Jacobs are a primitive breed and as such I > thought they lambed only once per year. My Barbs and St. Croix (hair sheep) > are known for producing lambs twice in a year. My Jacob ewes lambed in > early May 2000 and I just had my first set of twins born this morning from > one of those same mothers. > > Does anyone have any ideas? Is this a normal occurrence or might it have > been the fact that there were St. Croix ewes cycling around them and that > brought the Jacobs into season early? > > The ram was in with them all year but still I thought they wouldn't breed > until later in the year. > > BTW-I only had three adult ewes that were bred to this two year old, two > horned ram and he has produced seven lambs so far (five last May and two > this morning) and the count is 6 EWE LAMBS, 1 ram lamb. Now, even though > he is a wonderful registered boy from Swallow Lane, I have had no one > interested in him to buy ($100 FOB) and since I don't want to breed him to > my girls again next year he is marked for the butcher some time this week. > If anyone is interested please let me know ASAP. > > Kathi Seaman > Jacobs, Barbados and St. Croix sheep > Washington State > > > > --__--__-- > > Message: 11 > From: "Mark Essen" > To: "*Jacob discussion group" > Subject: Re: [Jacob-list] us fsa sheep improvement program question > Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2000 21:10:49 -0600 > charset="iso-8859-1" > > I guess I should feel fortunate. Our FSA people are not always fast, but > they are very busy. This time, however, I took my paperwork in on October > 27, and received a direct deposit into my checking account right at three > weeks later. This was for rams and improvements, both together in one > deposit. A neighbor who does not have a checking account received a check > in the mail right at three weeks after he turned in his paperwork. > If anybody wants to move to a good slow county with fast government > employees, the farm down the road is for sale. > Mark Essen > Famous Acres > 6701 County Road 353 > Fulton, Mo. 65251 > (573)642-0350 > messen@socket.net > Jacobs 4-Horn Sheep, Pygmy Goats, Pyrenees, Peafowl, Turkeys, Highland > Cattle, Yak, Emu, Fallow Deer, Zebu Cattle all living together in the > Kingdom of Callaway > ----- Original Message ----- > From: iseespots > To: *Jacob discussion group > Sent: Monday, November 27, 2000 11:12 AM > Subject: [Jacob-list] us fsa sheep improvement program question > > > > Hi all, > > > > Remember the 3 year program that had it's first year's deadline on October > 1 > > of 2000? I got my paperwork in and verbally approved by the local fsa > > office manager on the 28th of September. I was told that payment would > > probably be made by November 1st, and assuming the govt. was involved, I > > have waited a few extra weeks to get notification of my payment. Well, > > today, I called him up to find out where the process had gotten slowed > down. > > He informs me that he has no documentation of payment for the > > animals/application was not completed, AND to make the story just a little > > more palatable (since I had all receipts with me and they diddled around > at > > length to make sure everything was correct when I was filling out the form > > IN THEIR OFFICE), he tells me they have not yet heard HOW or WHEN to make > > any of these payments. He also said they just took in a few more > > applications just last week! > > > > What are you experiences on this? Am I sitting in the universal same > > position as all the rest of you who applied, or is there a particular > > document or phone number I can give my local fsa person to get him up to > > speed with the program. His explanation was, "this is just how the > > government works" like that was supposed to make me happy and go away > > quietly. > > > > Mary Ellen > > ISeeSpots Farm www.iseespots.com > > Home of Jacob Sheep, Shetland Sheep, > > and German Angora Rabbits, colored German Angora crosses. > > Renewable fleeces, loving personalities, friends. > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Jacob-list mailing list > > Jacob-list@jacobsheep.com > > http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/jacob-list > > > > --__--__-- > > Message: 12 > From: SJohn21855@aol.com > Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2000 06:42:22 EST > To: jacob-list@jacobsheep.com > Subject: [Jacob-list] (no subject) > > Hi all, > Boy, do I have a question for you guys and gals! > I got in touch with the lady who had my fiber and guess what? Her barn > burned down along with all of the fiber that had been sent to her. Now she is > asking me to send her a fair market value and she will send me a check. Now > for the question. I have never sold any wool and I no longer have the ewe > that this wool came from she was the one that died last year. She was a Black > Cotswold with REALLY nice wool (it stands to reason, you always loose the > best). It was extremely soft and hung in ringlets. It was ten inches long! > Should I charge her by the pound? Does anyone have any idea how much I should > charge? I am so bummed. It was beautiful wool. It had black, gray, white and > even some apricot coloring in it. > Anyway, your thoughts would be appreciated. > God bless, > Shelly > > > --__--__-- > > Message: 13 > From: "Aaron and Abigail Brown" > To: > Subject: Re: [Jacob-list] us fsa sheep improvement program question > Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2000 09:26:55 -0500 > boundary="----=_NextPart_000_00B1_01C0591D.59ECF900"; > type="multipart/alternative" > > This is a multi-part message in MIME format. > > ------=_NextPart_000_00B1_01C0591D.59ECF900 > Content-Type: multipart/alternative; > boundary="----=_NextPart_001_00B2_01C0591D.59ECF900" > > > ------=_NextPart_001_00B2_01C0591D.59ECF900 > Content-Type: text/plain; > charset="iso-8859-1" > Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > > Please, Do Not forget you are dealing with U.S. government bureaucracy! = > Delays, foul ups, blunders, and denials. Nobody ever knows anything. = > It's known as "pass the buck along." > > Aaron Brown > Shiloh Farm > Indiana=20 > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > ----- Original Message -----=20 > From: Robvcas@aol.com=20 > To: iseespots@email.msn.com ; jacob-list=20 > Sent: Monday, November 27, 2000 5:05 PM > Subject: Re: [Jacob-list] us fsa sheep improvement program question > > > Hi Mary Ellen, I fared a little better than you with the FSA. I got ALL = > > those receipts and paperwork in just under the deadline, and got a check = > > direct deposited for the 20% of material costs about 3 weeks ago. I'm = > still=20 > waiting for the ram reimbusement check, I don't know why they weren't=20 > processed together. It must be a government secret ! I suspect that = > the=20 > individual offices and agents have varying degrees of understanding the=20 > details of how the grant is administered. Robin Casasanto=20 > > ------=_NextPart_001_00B2_01C0591D.59ECF900 > Content-Type: text/html; > charset="iso-8859-1" > Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > > > > charset=3Diso-8859-1"> > > > > >
Please, Do Not forget = > you are=20 > dealing with U.S. government bureaucracy! Delays, foul ups, blunders, = > and=20 > denials. Nobody ever knows anything. It's known as "pass the buck=20 > along."
>
 
>
Aaron = > Brown
>
Shiloh = > Farm
>
size=3D3>Indiana 
>
size=3D3>=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
>
----- Original Message -----=20 >
From: title=3DRobvcas@aol.com = > href=3D"mailto:Robvcas@aol.com">Robvcas@aol.com
> >
Sent: Monday, November 27, 2000 5:05 PM
>
Subject: Re: [Jacob-list] us fsa sheep improvement program=20 > question
>

Hi Mary Ellen, I fared a little better = > than you with=20 > the FSA.  I got ALL
those receipts and paperwork in just under = > the=20 > deadline, and got a check
direct deposited for the 20% of material = > costs=20 > about 3 weeks ago.  I'm still
waiting for the ram reimbusement = > check,=20 >  I don't know why they weren't
processed together.  It = > must be a=20 > government secret !  I suspect that the
individual offices and = > agents=20 > have varying degrees of understanding the
details of how the grant = > is=20 > administered.  Robin Casasanto > > ------=_NextPart_001_00B2_01C0591D.59ECF900-- > > ------=_NextPart_000_00B1_01C0591D.59ECF900 > Content-Type: image/jpeg; > name="Glacier Bkgrd.jpg" > Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 > Content-ID: <00b001c05947$42877ea0$7ed0453f@sigecom.net> > > /9j/4AAQSkZJRgABAgEASABIAAD/7QSqUGhvdG9zaG9wIDMuMAA4QklNA+kAAAAAAHgAAwAAAEgA > SAAAAAAC2gIo/+H/4QL5AkUDRwUoA/wAAgAAAEgASAAAAAAC2AIoAAEAAABkAAAAAQADAwMAAAAB > Jw8AAQABAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAYAgAGQGQAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA4 > QklNA+0AAAAAABAASAAAAAEAAQBIAAAAAQABOEJJTQPzAAAAAAAIAAAAAAAAAAA4QklNBAoAAAAA > AAEAADhCSU0nEAAAAAAACgABAAAAAAAAAAI4QklNA/UAAAAAAEgAL2ZmAAEAbGZmAAYAAAAAAAEA > L2ZmAAEAoZmaAAYAAAAAAAEAMgAAAAEAWgAAAAYAAAAAAAEANQAAAAEALQAAAAYAAAAAAAE4QklN > A/gAAAAAAHAAAP////////////////////////////8D6AAAAAD///////////////////////// > ////A+gAAAAA/////////////////////////////wPoAAAAAP////////////////////////// > file://8D6AAAOEJJTQQAAAAAAAACAAA4QklNBAIAAAAAAAIAADhCSU0ECAAAAAAAEAAAAAEAAAJ AAAAC > QAAAAAA4QklNBAkAAAAAApkAAAABAAAAgAAAAAEAAAGAAAABgAAAAn0AGAAB/9j/4AAQSkZJRgAB > AgEASABIAAD//gAnRmlsZSB3cml0dGVuIGJ5IEFkb2JlIFBob3Rvc2hvcKggNC4wAP/uAA5BZG9i > ZQBkgAAAAAH/2wCEAAwICAgJCAwJCQwRCwoLERUPDAwPFRgTExUTExgRDAwMDAwMEQwMDAwMDAwM > DAwMDAwMDAwMDAwMDAwMDAwMDAwBDQsLDQ4NEA4OEBQODg4UFA4ODg4UEQwMDAwMEREMDAwMDAwR > DAwMDAwMDAwMDAwMDAwMDAwMDAwMDAwMDAwMDP/AABEIAAEAgAMBIgACEQEDEQH/3QAEAAj/xAE/ > AAABBQEBAQEBAQAAAAAAAAADAAECBAUGBwgJCgsBAAEFAQEBAQEBAAAAAAAAAAEAAgMEBQYHCAkK > CxAAAQQBAwIEAgUHBggFAwwzAQACEQMEIRIxBUFRYRMicYEyBhSRobFCIyQVUsFiMzRygtFDByWS > U/Dh8WNzNRaisoMmRJNUZEXCo3Q2F9JV4mXys4TD03Xj80YnlKSFtJXE1OT0pbXF1eX1VmZ2hpam > tsbW5vY3R1dnd4eXp7fH1+f3EQACAgECBAQDBAUGBwcGBTUBAAIRAyExEgRBUWFxIhMFMoGRFKGx > QiPBUtHwMyRi4XKCkkNTFWNzNPElBhaisoMHJjXC0kSTVKMXZEVVNnRl4vKzhMPTdePzRpSkhbSV > xNTk9KW1xdXl9VZmdoaWprbG1ub2JzdHV2d3h5ent8f/2gAMAwEAAhEDEQA/APTqPon4/wAAir5X > SQGyn6oSXyukip+qEl8rpJKfqhJfK6SSn6oSXyukkp+qEl8rpJKfqhJfK6SSn6oSXyukkp//2QA4 > QklNBAYAAAAAAAcABAAAAAEBAP/+ACdGaWxlIHdyaXR0ZW4gYnkgQWRvYmUgUGhvdG9zaG9wqCA0 > LjAA/+4ADkFkb2JlAGQAAAAAAf/bAIQABgQEBwUHCwYGCw4KCAoOEQ4ODg4RFhMTExMTFhEMDAwM > DAwRDAwMDAwMDAwMDAwMDAwMDAwMDAwMDAwMDAwMDAEHCQkTDBMiExMiFA4ODhQUDg4ODhQRDAwM > DAwREQwMDAwMDBEMDAwMDAwMDAwMDAwMDAwMDAwMDAwMDAwMDAwM/8AAEQgAAwZAAwERAAIRAQMR > Af/dAAQAyP/EAaIAAAAHAQEBAQEAAAAAAAAAAAQFAwIGAQAHCAkKCwEAAgIDAQEBAQEAAAAAAAAA > AQACAwQFBgcICQoLEAACAQMDAgQCBgcDBAIGAnMBAgMRBAAFIRIxQVEGE2EicYEUMpGhBxWxQiPB > UtHhMxZi8CRygvElQzRTkqKyY3PCNUQnk6OzNhdUZHTD0uIIJoMJChgZhJRFRqS0VtNVKBry4/PE > 1OT0ZXWFlaW1xdXl9WZ2hpamtsbW5vY3R1dnd4eXp7fH1+f3OEhYaHiImKi4yNjo+Ck5SVlpeYmZ > qbnJ2en5KjpKWmp6ipqqusra6voRAAICAQIDBQUEBQYECAMDbQEAAhEDBCESMUEFURNhIgZxgZEy > obHwFMHR4SNCFVJicvEzJDRDghaSUyWiY7LCB3PSNeJEgxdUkwgJChgZJjZFGidkdFU38qOzwygp > 0+PzhJSktMTU5PRldYWVpbXF1eX1RlZmdoaWprbG1ub2R1dnd4eXp7fH1+f3OEhYaHiImKi4yNjo > +DlJWWl5iZmpucnZ6fkqOkpaanqKmqq6ytrq+v/aAAwDAQACEQMRAD8A9N/vv+Lv+SWFhv5/7F37 > 7/i7/kliu/n/ALFbJ63H/dv0+lTFd/P/AGKj++/y/wDkliu/n/sVa29Tl8fSn7fCn/JPfFIRH/AY > GTv+AxV3/AYq7/gMVd/wGKu/4DFXf8Birv8AgMVd/wABirv+AxV3/AYq7/gMVd/wGKu/4DFXf8Bi > rv8AgMVd/wABirv+AxV3/AYq7/gMVd/wGKu/4DFXf8Birv8AgMVd/wABirv+AxV3/AYq7/gMVd/w > GKu/4DFXf8Birv8AgMVd/wABirv+AxV3/AYq7/gMVd/wGKu/4DFXf8Birv8AgMVd/wABirv+AxV3 > /AYq7/gMVd/wGKu/4DFXf8Birv8AgMVd/wABirv+AxV3/AYq7/gMVd/wGKu/4DFXf8Birv8AgMVd > /wABirv+AxV3/AYq7/gMVd/wGKu/4DFXf8Birv8AgMVd/wABirv+AxV3/AYq7/gMVd/wGKu/4DFX > f8Birv8AgMVd/wABirv+AxV3/AYq7/gMVd/wGKu/4DFXf8Birv8AgMVd/wABirv+AxV3/AYq7/gM > Vd/wGKu/4DFXf8Birv8AgMVd/wABirv+AxV3/AYq7/gMVd/wGKu/4DFXf8Birv8AgMVd/wABirv+ > AxV3/AYq7/gMVd/wGKu/4DFXf8Birv8AgMVd/wABirv+AxV3/AYq7/gMVd/wGKu/4DFXf8Birv8A > gMVd/wABirv+AxV3/AYq7/gMVd/wGKu/4DFXf8Birv8AgMVd/wABirv+AxV3/AYq7/gMVd/wGKu/ > 4DFXf8Birv8AgMVd/wABirv+AxV3/AYq7/gMVd/wGKu/4DFXf8Birv8AgMVd/wABirv+AxV3/AYq > 7/gMVd/wGKu/4DFXf8Birv8AgMVd/wABirv+AxV3/AYq7/gMVd/wGKu/4DFXf8Birv8AgMVd/wAB > irv+AxV3/AYq7/gMVd/wGKu/4DFXf8Birv8AgMVd/wABirv+AxV3/AYq7/gMVd/wGKu/4DFXf8Bi > rv8AgMVd/wABirv+AxV3/AYq7/gMVd/wGKu/4DFXf8Birv8AgMVd/wABirv+AxV3/AYq7/gMVd/w > GKu/4DFXf8Birv8AgMVd/wABirv+AxV3/AYq7/gMVd/wGKu/4DFXf8Birv8AgMVd/wABirv+AxV3 > /AYq/wD/2Q== > > ------=_NextPart_000_00B1_01C0591D.59ECF900-- > > > > > --__--__-- > > _______________________________________________ > Jacob-list mailing list > Jacob-list@jacobsheep.com > http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/jacob-list > > > End of Jacob-list Digest_______________________________________________ > Jacob-list mailing list > Jacob-list@jacobsheep.com > http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/jacob-list From spahrfarm at dragonbbs.com Wed Nov 29 10:45:47 2000 From: spahrfarm at dragonbbs.com (Jim Spahr) Date: Wed Feb 2 07:52:29 2005 Subject: [Jacob-list] Lending a ram Message-ID: <001201c05a1b$720dd5a0$a696453f@cyrix> Sharon & all, I do not think you are being overly cautious by not lending your ram. Since you know nothing of the health status of this man's ewes, why jeopardize your ram's health by loaning him, then reintroducing him into your own flock? There are many Jacob rams available for sale at reasonable prices. I would refer him to another breeder who has rams to sell. Mary Spahr -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.pairlist.net/pipermail/jacob-list/attachments/20001129/ec94f7c2/attachment.html From SharHill at aol.com Wed Nov 29 11:04:52 2000 From: SharHill at aol.com (SharHill@aol.com) Date: Wed Feb 2 07:52:29 2005 Subject: [Jacob-list] re: lending my ram Message-ID: <91.397a411.27568324@aol.com> Thanks to all who responded to my query about lending out my ram. I really appreciate all the advice. There seems to be a consensus that my misgivings were well founded. Clayton will stay here at home where he belongs. Sharon From wolfpen at rabun.net Wed Nov 29 12:38:33 2000 From: wolfpen at rabun.net (linda) Date: Wed Feb 2 07:52:29 2005 Subject: [Jacob-list] re: lending out our ram In-Reply-To: <9a.ca11096.2755e45b@aol.com> Message-ID: <200011291742.MAA26528@mail> Besides the health considerations, you might want to think how you'll feel when someone points to one of the crossbred lambs and says "oh, that's from Sharon's registered Jacob stock." Many, many of the Georgia so-called Jacobs have Barbados fairly close up in their backgrounds and have been passed off to uneducated buyers as full blooded Jacobs. People see the crossbred lamb, maybe with spots and horns, and recognize it as a Barb cross and wonder what's hiding in YOUR lines. I loved the cat story. In an old Spin-Off, someone wrote that anyone that spins and owns cats ends up spinning cat fur accidently as a result of cats doing their own style of fiber blending while rolling in the fiber basket. Linda On Tue, 28 Nov 2000 23:47:23 EST, wrote: >Hi all, > >I need some advice from someone more experienced in sheep raising etiquette >than I am. Someone near me who runs a petting zoo of sorts has 5 Barbados >ewes, and he wants to borrow, for a fee, our Jacob ram to breed them. I >don't really want to do it as I don't want to expose the ram to the diseases >or parasites that the other sheep could possibly have. I also don't want his >sheep here for the same reason, and also since we have no grass after this >year's drought. Am I being overly cautious? He kept referring to my Jacobs >as "Jacobson sheep" even though I several times referred to them as Jacobs. >It sort of bugged me. I know I don't have to do anything I don't want to, >but would it be unreasonable or rude to refuse? > >On an amusing note, to follow up the thread on animal tales and fiber >stuff...Last night we had a power outage for about 4 hours as a result of a >squirrel playing on the power lines. We live in a 150 year old farm house >with fireplaces, so we had a fire going to keep warm and I decided to spin >Patchwork Dixie's wool by the light of an oil lamp and candles. Very cozy. >Just like the olden days, I thought. It wasn't very bright, but I could see >enough to spin. I haven't been a spinner for very long, so I am not very >fast, but I seemed to be zooming through the predrafted rolags I was using. >I was patting myself on the back for improving so much. When the lights came >on I found big hunks of several of the rolags on the floor that the kitten >had secretly torn off as they hung over the side of my leg as I was spinning. > She even had one wrapped around her as evidence. So much for my explosive >growth in spinning expertise. > >Sharon > >_______________________________________________ >Jacob-list mailing list >Jacob-list@jacobsheep.com >http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/jacob-list www.PatchworkFibers.com Registered Jacob Sheep -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.pairlist.net/pipermail/jacob-list/attachments/20001129/65204596/attachment.htm From Robvcas at aol.com Wed Nov 29 19:11:51 2000 From: Robvcas at aol.com (Robvcas@aol.com) Date: Wed Feb 2 07:52:29 2005 Subject: [Jacob-list] Rent-a-ram Message-ID: <34.d782c34.2756f547@aol.com> I agree that its much easier to maintain the health of your own animals if your flock is separate from outside pests and diseases. If something comes up in your flock, you'll likely notice, diagnose and treat it quickly, and hopefully not have to deal with it again soon. Last summer I put a few of my sheep in a neighbor's field that had been empty for a few years. The man said that he had offered another neighbor the use of his pasture, but it still sat empty. I walked the fences and fixed them up here and there, and put my sheep in. There was a stream in the pasture and lots to eat, so I went over to check on them every couple of days. Two months later, I went to check on my sheep and the other neighbor had put his in with mine ! Now, I know this man would not waste money on veterinary care, because he let a goat die a slow death when she everted her uterus after kidding. I raced over, rounded up and separated the sheep and got them home ASAP. I then wormed and deliced ALL my sheep and watched them carefully for a few months. Fortunately they were together briefly, it could have been worse. Robin C -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.pairlist.net/pipermail/jacob-list/attachments/20001129/070123f9/attachment.html From wolfpen at rabun.net Wed Nov 29 19:29:23 2000 From: wolfpen at rabun.net (linda) Date: Wed Feb 2 07:52:29 2005 Subject: [Jacob-list] re: lending out our ram In-Reply-To: <200011291742.MAA26528@mail> Message-ID: <200011300033.TAA29790@mail> Long day - should have read "lending out YOUR ram." We are cutting lumber this week and have just had company for four days, so my typing is as tired as I am! Mary & Mary Ellen - Spahr Farm Lorraine and Rockies Sophia are both showing their pregnancies. So we are counting down the days until the first lamb. Linda On Wed, 29 Nov 2000 12:38:33 -0500, linda wrote: > Besides the health considerations, you might want to think how you'll feel when someone >points to one of the crossbred lambs and says "oh, that's from Sharon's registered Jacob >stock." Many, many of the Georgia so-called Jacobs have Barbados fairly close up in their >backgrounds and have been passed off to uneducated buyers as full blooded Jacobs. People see >the crossbred lamb, maybe with spots and horns, and recognize it as a Barb cross and wonder >what's hiding in YOUR lines. > > I loved the cat story. In an old Spin-Off, someone wrote that anyone that spins and owns >cats ends up spinning cat fur accidently as a result of cats doing their own style of fiber >blending while rolling in the fiber basket. > > Linda > > On Tue, 28 Nov 2000 23:47:23 EST, wrote: > >Hi all, > > > >I need some advice from someone more experienced in sheep raising etiquette > >than I am. Someone near me who runs a petting zoo of sorts has 5 Barbados > >ewes, and he wants to borrow, for a fee, our Jacob ram to breed them. I > >don't really want to do it as I don't want to expose the ram to the diseases > >or parasites that the other sheep could possibly have. I also don't want his > >sheep here for the same reason, and also since we have no grass after this > >year's drought. Am I being overly cautious? He kept referring to my Jacobs > >as "Jacobson sheep" even though I several times referred to them as Jacobs. > >It sort of bugged me. I know I don't have to do anything I don't want to, > >but would it be unreasonable or rude to refuse? > > > >On an amusing note, to follow up the thread on animal tales and fiber > >stuff...Last night we had a power outage for about 4 hours as a result of a > >squirrel playing on the power lines. We live in a 150 year old farm house > >with fireplaces, so we had a fire going to keep warm and I decided to spin > >Patchwork Dixie's wool by the light of an oil lamp and candles. Very cozy. > >Just like the olden days, I thought. It wasn't very bright, but I could see > >enough to spin. I haven't been a spinner for very long, so I am not very > >fast, but I seemed to be zooming through the predrafted rolags I was using. > >I was patting myself on the back for improving so much. When the lights came > >on I found big hunks of several of the rolags on the floor that the kitten > >had secretly torn off as they hung over the side of my leg as I was spinning. > > She even had one wrapped around her as evidence. So much for my explosive > >growth in spinning expertise. > > > >Sharon > > > >_______________________________________________ > >Jacob-list mailing list > >Jacob-list@jacobsheep.com > >http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/jacob-list > > > www.PatchworkFibers.com > Registered Jacob Sheep > www.PatchworkFibers.com Registered Jacob Sheep -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.pairlist.net/pipermail/jacob-list/attachments/20001129/8ab37b45/attachment.htm From bissell at usit.net Wed Nov 29 20:24:37 2000 From: bissell at usit.net (Edd Bissell) Date: Wed Feb 2 07:52:29 2005 Subject: [Jacob-list] Lending out a Ram Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.20001130012437.0086ad4c@pop.usit.net> Times have really changed - Luther, Sue Thaxton, Ed Lanham, and I swapped rams, ewes, etc back and forth for years - Yes, I realise that it was way back when but have no idea where each of us would have ever been without sharing bloodlines, etc. But I do understand with the overwhelming concerns over OPP that it makes it impossible along with the fact that cull rams today we would have killed for 15 year ago!!!! We have come a long way BUT nostalgia is nice. ------ Edd Bissell = Hidden View Farm = Rare and Primitive Breed Animals Scottish Blackface=Jacob=Barbados=Texas Dall=Navajo-Churro=Churro Hairsheep ====Tennessee Nervous Meat Goats = = Great Pyrenees LGDs===== = eddbissell.com = 423-475-4844 = 1435 Collins Road - New Market, Tennessee U.S.A. 37820 From joyew at mindspring.com Wed Nov 29 21:18:17 2000 From: joyew at mindspring.com (Wayne & Edie Van Valkenburg) Date: Wed Feb 2 07:52:29 2005 Subject: [Jacob-list] Lending Message-ID: <3A25B8E9.9D501FEB@mindspring.com> It is risky to bring an animal on to your properly for breeding or to send one to another farm. We use to do it quite frequently. About 10 years ago we brought a ewe back for breeding that had been sold to a good friend whose farm was close by. We had been to his farm many times (only about 1 mile away) We put her in with one of the Jacob rams and his girls. We went away for the week end and when we returned the ewe was off by herself. Her eyes were opaque. She had conjunctivitis. We treated her and this began a 3 year journey of medicating all our Jacob with La200 3x's to keep it under control. This ewe returned to her flock and had no problem, but she had introduced it into our flock. The next year we brought another friends ewe in and it began all over again. And yet when that ewe went home she did not pass it on. Once we stopped bringing in other animals we had no more problems. When we introduce a new sheep to the flock we always isolate it for 3-4 weeks for it to get use to the antibodies that are here. Of course now with the Scrapie program we do not offer stud service. By the way our Spinning flock of Border Leicester and Corriedale never contracted the Conjunctivitis. Odd but thank goodness it is behind us by quite a few years. Edie, Joy Farm From lambfarm at sover.net Thu Nov 30 08:51:13 2000 From: lambfarm at sover.net (Betty Berlenbach) Date: Wed Feb 2 07:52:29 2005 Subject: [Jacob-list] lending Message-ID: <01C05AAC.AAE234C0@arc4a21.bf.sover.net> You know, Edd, and everyone else, we've lost something here: I think that that cameraderie and connectedness that comes from a group of people working together and trusting each other is important. Maybe that's part of where it comes from in JSBA, which I find so very different from other breed organizations I'm part of--the sharing, the excitement of discovering new bloodlines,...I'm not so sure that the concern over OPP isn't more a question of hysteria over OPP. Of course, we need to be careful, and check out each others' flocks visually, if no other way, but there's a vast difference between lending out a ram to some guy with a petting zoo who wants to cross them with barbs, to lending/sharing rams among a couple of breeders who know each other's flocks, and the history of them. AT times, taking risks is what builds community. If a friend of mine did not test for OPP, but I had known them and their flocks for several years and know which, if any, ewes had died, and what was the likely cause, and there had been no symptoms, I'd lend the ram! And I would be totally honest with them and with any other customers about the fact that I had done so! Those who buy from me know that I invite them to bring their ewe lambs back here to be bred as yearlings, so long as I know the flock and the history. If I end up with OPP, so be it. I absolutely refuse to live my life motivated by fear! I would guess that one could argue that there's a thin line between fear and responsibility. And I would agree. The risk, however, I think, is minimal, if you are responsible, and everyone has to define for themselves just what degree of responsibility they wish to engage in. The fear that made/makes people avoid others with cancer, AIDS, etc., on the off chance that they will be contaminated or exposed saddens me, and I certainly wouldn't engage in irresponsible activities with these people, but I will have relationships with them. I hope that this OPP thing doesn't polarize breeders into the haves and have-nots on the From joyew at mindspring.com Thu Nov 30 09:57:19 2000 From: joyew at mindspring.com (Wayne & Edie Van Valkenburg) Date: Wed Feb 2 07:52:29 2005 Subject: [Jacob-list] Eyes Message-ID: <3A266ACF.878BDF52@mindspring.com> How lucky for you to have some snow. I am like you I love the snow. Everything is sooo beautiful and pure looking. The Jacob seem to be at their best with the white rug on the ground. No none of the Jacob had any eye weakness. The vet had some cases in the area with cows and steers and flies and birds seem to spread this. The ewe that came in brought over in a truck that had just been to Va to bring back some Suffolk. The breeder and us rationalized that maybe thats were it entered. We have tested for OPP over the years just when a buyer requested it and last year all the animals were blood tested with the Scrapie Program. Everything has come up negative. Also we have never seen any symptoms. We are like you with almost a 100% live lambing. Only shepherd error has been in the way. Sometimes we miss the most obvious things that we "old (Experienced) shepherds should know. I feel lending a ram out is a better situation than bringing other ewes on to your property unless you have a isolated area to keep them. We often kept an excellent ram for just that purpose. If something happened to him it was not that great a loss. From sugarhil at northland.lib.mi.us Thu Nov 30 09:46:12 2000 From: sugarhil at northland.lib.mi.us (Sugar Hill Farm) Date: Wed Feb 2 07:52:30 2005 Subject: [Jacob-list] Loosing Wool Message-ID: <002201c05adc$4c858e60$d1e16cc6@default> Hi all, Has anyone had wool loss that is not caused by external parasites? The vet said it might be a staph infection. But the vets up here are not very familiar with sheep and we are a long way from Michigan State Univ now. Marcia -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.pairlist.net/pipermail/jacob-list/attachments/20001130/5c2d011b/attachment.html From joyew at mindspring.com Thu Nov 30 10:08:43 2000 From: joyew at mindspring.com (Wayne & Edie Van Valkenburg) Date: Wed Feb 2 07:52:30 2005 Subject: [Jacob-list] Losing wool Message-ID: <3A266D7B.5105B17@mindspring.com> Yes, Marcia we have experienced this with a few of our Jacob. Mainly and older girl. It is caused by stress, usually as they proceed into late gestation. Most often they are carrying triplets. It also seems to appear in one line. They lose it in the brisket area. They seem to lamb ok and the babies are none the worse for it. Must be a metabolic thing. Like some women lose their hair or it changes color naturally during pregnancy. If they are eating well and all other signs are good I would not worry. Edie, Joy Farm. From sbennett at teleport.com Thu Nov 30 11:57:39 2000 From: sbennett at teleport.com (sbennett) Date: Wed Feb 2 07:52:30 2005 Subject: [Jacob-list] lending Message-ID: <20001130170100.3A8993C266@pairlist.net> I whole-heartedly agree with your statement. I would not loan out one of my rams to someone I did not know. However, I do work closely with two other Jacob breeders. I have more space on my farm and the ability to run ram heavy. Two of my rams go out every year and we sometimes trade lambs. The three of us feel we have a "collective" farm. We share with each other histories and problems. Even so, I always quarantine the rams when they return home. We will continue to work together in this way. I recently informed the others that I will be signing up for the Volunteer Scrapie Eradication program. They are more than willing to get on board with this. We may end up always being at level 1 because we trade animals, but we feel it necessary for the survival of the Jacobs we love. Debbie Bennett Feral Fibre Oakland, Or >From: Betty Berlenbach, lambfarm@sover.net >To: 'jacob-list@jacobsheep.com', jacob-list@jacobsheep.com > >You know, Edd, and everyone else, we've lost something here: I think that >that cameraderie and connectedness that comes from a group of people >working together and trusting each other is important. Maybe that's part >of where it comes from in JSBA, which I find so very different from other >breed organizations I'm part of--the sharing, the excitement of >discovering new bloodlines,...I'm not so sure that the concern over OPP >isn't more a question of hysteria over OPP. Of course, we need to be >careful, and check out each others' flocks visually, if no other way, but >there's a vast difference between lending out a ram to some guy with a >petting zoo who wants to cross them with barbs, to lending/sharing rams >among a couple of breeders who know each other's flocks, and the history >of them. AT times, taking risks is what builds community. If a friend of >mine did not test for OPP, but I had known them and their flocks for >several years and know which, if any, ewes had died, and what was the >likely cause, and there had been no symptoms, I'd lend the ram! And I >would be totally honest with them and with any other customers about the >fact that I had done so! Those who buy from me know that I invite them to >bring their ewe lambs back here to be bred as yearlings, so long as I know >the flock and the history. If I end up with OPP, so be it. I absolutely >refuse to live my life motivated by fear! I would guess that one could >argue that there's a thin line between fear and responsibility. And I >would agree. The risk, however, I think, is minimal, if you are >responsible, and everyone has to define for themselves just what degree of >responsibility they wish to engage in. From spahrfarm at dragonbbs.com Thu Nov 30 12:43:07 2000 From: spahrfarm at dragonbbs.com (Jim Spahr) Date: Wed Feb 2 07:52:30 2005 Subject: [Jacob-list] Lending Sheep Message-ID: <004b01c05af5$013c72c0$a696453f@cyrix> I would want to know someone else's flock VERY well before lending a ram or bringing ewes in to breed. A few years ago we asked a well-known 4-H club pig raiser, who sells semen and pigs all over the U.S., and buys boars for thousands of dollars each, if we could purchase a boar from him. He said he had one that we could just borrow. We brought Highwire home and he gave lice to all our sows. We had to treat several times with Ivermectin over a period of months to get them under control. It was very time consuming and costly. Several times we called asking to take the boar home, and each time were told that he had no room for him at this time and to keep him awhile longer. Boars eat LOTS of feed, and he was not producing any pigs for us during this time. The owner finally told us to take him to the stock yard, and then complained about the low price he got for him! I do not think as breeders of Jacob sheep and other livestock that we want to become cynical, but sometimes it is prudent to be cautious. Mary Spahr -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... 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