From vern@icir.org Fri Feb 7 06:34:03 2003 From: vern@icir.org (Vern Paxson) Date: Thu, 06 Feb 2003 22:34:03 -0800 Subject: [IETF-IDRM] IDRM research group closed Message-ID: <200302070634.h176Y33I053340@jaguar.icir.org> The research group chairs and I have concluded that there isn't a sufficient nucleus of like-minded participants to continue the IDRM effort within the IRTF. So I have now closed the RG. - Vern (IRTF chair) From glarose@info-mech.com Fri Feb 7 14:48:58 2003 From: glarose@info-mech.com (Gord Larose) Date: Fri, 7 Feb 2003 09:48:58 -0500 Subject: [IETF-IDRM] IDRM research group closed References: <200302070634.h176Y33I053340@jaguar.icir.org> Message-ID: <000e01c2ceb8$0be8b6a0$0400a8c0@sympatico.ca> Vern et al: The discontinuation of the group is regrettable but logical. For myself personally for example, there is quite a bit of interest but no corporate sponsorship. As an earlier correspondent pointed out, commercial demand is, whether we like it or not, a significant factor for such efforts. At least there have been some encouraging developments of late, such as Microsoft and the RIAA both agreeing that mandated Big Brother technology like the Fritz Chip is not a good thing. A rational marketplace for this technology will emerge. We may meet again ! Meanwhile, I intend to maintain my DRM pages and welcome suggestions, links etc: http://www.info-mech.com/drm_home_page.html http://www.info-mech.com/drm_dictionary.html Regards, Gord Larose 8-) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Vern Paxson" To: Cc: "Mark Baugher" ; Sent: Friday, February 07, 2003 1:34 AM Subject: [IETF-IDRM] IDRM research group closed > The research group chairs and I have concluded that there isn't a > sufficient nucleus of like-minded participants to continue the IDRM > effort within the IRTF. So I have now closed the RG. > > - Vern (IRTF chair) > > _______________________________________________ > ietf-idrm mailing list > ietf-idrm@idrm.org > http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/ietf-idrm From lists29051972@gmx.de Mon Feb 10 13:05:58 2003 From: lists29051972@gmx.de (lists29051972@gmx.de) Date: Mon, 10 Feb 2003 14:05:58 +0100 (MET) Subject: [IETF-IDRM] Re: IDRM research group closed Message-ID: <21407.1044882358@www25.gmx.net> Dear All, we can offer you to continue your discussion on the MusicNetwork homepage. http://www.interactivemusicnetwork.org Because of the closure of the RG I'd like to discuss the position described in "Digital Rights Management or DRM - Does (it) Really Matter?" by Jon Webb, international association of scientific, technical and medical publishers (stm): http://www.stm-assoc.org/annualreport/00drm.html with the summary: "Proposed STM Publishing Position regarding DRM: STM Publishers need to adopt the following position regarding DRM, which may summarized in the following seven bullet points: - That DRM is important and requires appropriate management attention; - That DRM should be presented as a means of supporting and promoting access to information - not blocking it; - That international standards that facilitate interoperability are desirable and should be actively promoted - eg MPEG-21's Rights Data Dictionary and Rights Expression Language; - That STM has a proven record of industry driven standards initiatives (ISBN, DOI, INDECS, ONIX, OEBF) can support DRM standards; - That STM are not in favour of mandated solutions - unlike some content owners; - That DRM delivery systems (encryption, packaging, transmission) should not be standardised but developed by rights owners in cooperation with their customers; - That DRM needs to be internationally applicable and act in accordance with intellectual property laws." What do you think about the standardization position? I added this to the forum of the workgroup protection in MusicNetwork. Best regards, Martin Schmucker -- +++ GMX - Mail, Messaging & more http://www.gmx.net +++ NEU: Mit GMX ins Internet. Rund um die Uhr für 1 ct/ Min. surfen! From lists29051972@gmx.de Mon Feb 10 09:53:23 2003 From: lists29051972@gmx.de (lists29051972@gmx.de) Date: Mon, 10 Feb 2003 10:53:23 +0100 (MET) Subject: [IETF-IDRM] Re: IDRM research group closed Message-ID: <13450.1044870803@www36.gmx.net> Dear All, > For myself personally for example, there is quite a bit of interest but no > corporate sponsorship. As an earlier correspondent pointed out, commercial > demand is, whether we like it or not, a significant factor for such efforts. my personal impression is that there is a huge commercial demand, but no commercial sponsorship. In the Musicnetwork project we are also addressing protection issues. And publishers are very interested in DRM technologies. But they need more informations about DRM - but not only on technical but also on legal issues. And the same is true for customers. E.g. most of them are afraid of DRM solutions because of technical obstacles like audio files which can be played only on a specific hardware device. And maybe developers of DRM technology do not foresee the importance of a common standard due to users' demands: No user wants to buy a digital item which is sooner or later worthless because it will be in an "encrypted bottle". Maybe this is just due to that fact that DRM technology is quite a new field. But enlightment and the availability of information would improve the acceptance and therefore the development of DRM technologies by content owners, providers and customers. So far it seems that DRM development is only technologists driven. Maybe this picture is coloured too dark. But I am looking forward for your comments. Best wishes, Martin Schmucker @Gord: I will add you link to the forum of musicnetwork (http://www.interactivemusicnetwork.org). -- +++ GMX - Mail, Messaging & more http://www.gmx.net +++ NEU: Mit GMX ins Internet. Rund um die Uhr für 1 ct/ Min. surfen! From cmollis@objectlab.com Mon Feb 10 14:27:46 2003 From: cmollis@objectlab.com (chris mollis) Date: Mon, 10 Feb 2003 09:27:46 -0500 Subject: [IETF-IDRM] Re: IDRM research group closed References: <13450.1044870803@www36.gmx.net> Message-ID: <00d201c2d110$953251a0$6401a8c0@D7CDKC01> OpenIPMP implements a reference-platform DRM system for mpeg4 audio/video, and mpeg1-L3 audio.. Please download at www.sourceforge.net/projects/openipmp. ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Monday, February 10, 2003 4:53 AM Subject: [IETF-IDRM] Re: IDRM research group closed > Dear All, > > > For myself personally for example, there is quite a bit of interest but no > > corporate sponsorship. As an earlier correspondent pointed out, commercial > > demand is, whether we like it or not, a significant factor for such > efforts. > > my personal impression is that there is a huge commercial demand, but no > commercial sponsorship. > > In the Musicnetwork project we are also addressing protection issues. And > publishers are very interested in DRM technologies. But they need more > informations about DRM - but not only on technical but also on legal issues. And the > same is true for customers. E.g. most of them are afraid of DRM solutions > because of technical obstacles like audio files which can be played only on a > specific hardware device. > > And maybe developers of DRM technology do not foresee the importance of a > common standard due to users' demands: No user wants to buy a digital item > which is sooner or later worthless because it will be in an "encrypted bottle". > > Maybe this is just due to that fact that DRM technology is quite a new > field. But enlightment and the availability of information would improve the > acceptance and therefore the development of DRM technologies by content owners, > providers and customers. So far it seems that DRM development is only > technologists driven. > > Maybe this picture is coloured too dark. But I am looking forward for your > comments. > > Best wishes, > > Martin Schmucker > > @Gord: I will add you link to the forum of musicnetwork > (http://www.interactivemusicnetwork.org). > > > -- > +++ GMX - Mail, Messaging & more http://www.gmx.net +++ > NEU: Mit GMX ins Internet. Rund um die Uhr für 1 ct/ Min. surfen! > > > _______________________________________________ > ietf-idrm mailing list > ietf-idrm@idrm.org > http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/ietf-idrm > From tme@multicasttech.com Mon Feb 10 14:36:54 2003 From: tme@multicasttech.com (Marshall Eubanks) Date: Mon, 10 Feb 2003 09:36:54 -0500 Subject: [IETF-IDRM] Re: IDRM research group closed In-Reply-To: <00d201c2d110$953251a0$6401a8c0@D7CDKC01> Message-ID: <199C1A22-3D05-11D7-92D6-0030656561EA@multicasttech.com> Is this connected at all with the ISMA MPEG-4 DRM solutions ? On Monday, February 10, 2003, at 09:27 AM, chris mollis wrote: > OpenIPMP implements a reference-platform DRM system for mpeg4=20 > audio/video, > and mpeg1-L3 audio.. Please download at > www.sourceforge.net/projects/openipmp. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: > Sent: Monday, February 10, 2003 4:53 AM > Subject: [IETF-IDRM] Re: IDRM research group closed > > >> Dear All, >> >>> For myself personally for example, there is quite a bit of interest=20= >>> but > no >>> corporate sponsorship. As an earlier correspondent pointed out, > commercial >>> demand is, whether we like it or not, a significant factor for such >> efforts. >> >> my personal impression is that there is a huge commercial demand, but=20= >> no >> commercial sponsorship. >> >> In the Musicnetwork project we are also addressing protection issues.=20= >> And >> publishers are very interested in DRM technologies. But they need = more >> informations about DRM - but not only on technical but also on legal > issues. And the >> same is true for customers. E.g. most of them are afraid of DRM=20 >> solutions >> because of technical obstacles like audio files which can be played=20= >> only > on a >> specific hardware device. >> >> And maybe developers of DRM technology do not foresee the importance=20= >> of a >> common standard due to users' demands: No user wants to buy a digital=20= >> item >> which is sooner or later worthless because it will be in an = "encrypted > bottle". >> >> Maybe this is just due to that fact that DRM technology is quite a = new >> field. But enlightment and the availability of information would=20 >> improve > the >> acceptance and therefore the development of DRM technologies by = content > owners, >> providers and customers. So far it seems that DRM development is only >> technologists driven. >> >> Maybe this picture is coloured too dark. But I am looking forward for=20= >> your >> comments. >> >> Best wishes, >> >> Martin Schmucker >> >> @Gord: I will add you link to the forum of musicnetwork >> (http://www.interactivemusicnetwork.org). >> >> >> -- >> +++ GMX - Mail, Messaging & more http://www.gmx.net +++ >> NEU: Mit GMX ins Internet. Rund um die Uhr f=FCr 1 ct/ Min. surfen! >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> ietf-idrm mailing list >> ietf-idrm@idrm.org >> http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/ietf-idrm >> > > > _______________________________________________ > ietf-idrm mailing list > ietf-idrm@idrm.org > http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/ietf-idrm > Regards Marshall Eubanks T.M. Eubanks Multicast Technologies, Inc 10301 Democracy Lane, Suite 410 Fairfax, Virginia 22030 Phone : 703-293-9624 Fax : 703-293-9609 e-mail : tme@multicasttech.com http://www.multicasttech.com Test your network for multicast : http://www.multicasttech.com/mt/ Status of Multicast on the Web : http://www.multicasttech.com/status/index.html From cmollis@objectlab.com Mon Feb 10 15:16:47 2003 From: cmollis@objectlab.com (chris mollis) Date: Mon, 10 Feb 2003 10:16:47 -0500 Subject: [IETF-IDRM] Re: IDRM research group closed References: <199C1A22-3D05-11D7-92D6-0030656561EA@multicasttech.com> Message-ID: <00e501c2d117$6e3beff0$6401a8c0@D7CDKC01> Since the ISMA DRM spec is unavailable, we've implemented a simple 'hook's implementation on top of the 1.0 spec.. there are some ISMA 1.0 issues we've had to deal with, however. For example, the length of the URL field that holds the OD track isn't long enough hold a full DOI and we can only use symmetric keys in CFB mode because of packetization issues.. things like this... We wrote up as many issues as we could and included them with the release... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Marshall Eubanks" To: "chris mollis" Cc: ; Sent: Monday, February 10, 2003 9:36 AM Subject: Re: [IETF-IDRM] Re: IDRM research group closed Is this connected at all with the ISMA MPEG-4 DRM solutions ? On Monday, February 10, 2003, at 09:27 AM, chris mollis wrote: > OpenIPMP implements a reference-platform DRM system for mpeg4 > audio/video, > and mpeg1-L3 audio.. Please download at > www.sourceforge.net/projects/openipmp. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: > Sent: Monday, February 10, 2003 4:53 AM > Subject: [IETF-IDRM] Re: IDRM research group closed > > >> Dear All, >> >>> For myself personally for example, there is quite a bit of interest >>> but > no >>> corporate sponsorship. As an earlier correspondent pointed out, > commercial >>> demand is, whether we like it or not, a significant factor for such >> efforts. >> >> my personal impression is that there is a huge commercial demand, but >> no >> commercial sponsorship. >> >> In the Musicnetwork project we are also addressing protection issues. >> And >> publishers are very interested in DRM technologies. But they need more >> informations about DRM - but not only on technical but also on legal > issues. And the >> same is true for customers. E.g. most of them are afraid of DRM >> solutions >> because of technical obstacles like audio files which can be played >> only > on a >> specific hardware device. >> >> And maybe developers of DRM technology do not foresee the importance >> of a >> common standard due to users' demands: No user wants to buy a digital >> item >> which is sooner or later worthless because it will be in an "encrypted > bottle". >> >> Maybe this is just due to that fact that DRM technology is quite a new >> field. But enlightment and the availability of information would >> improve > the >> acceptance and therefore the development of DRM technologies by content > owners, >> providers and customers. So far it seems that DRM development is only >> technologists driven. >> >> Maybe this picture is coloured too dark. But I am looking forward for >> your >> comments. >> >> Best wishes, >> >> Martin Schmucker >> >> @Gord: I will add you link to the forum of musicnetwork >> (http://www.interactivemusicnetwork.org). >> >> >> -- >> +++ GMX - Mail, Messaging & more http://www.gmx.net +++ >> NEU: Mit GMX ins Internet. Rund um die Uhr für 1 ct/ Min. surfen! >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> ietf-idrm mailing list >> ietf-idrm@idrm.org >> http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/ietf-idrm >> > > > _______________________________________________ > ietf-idrm mailing list > ietf-idrm@idrm.org > http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/ietf-idrm > Regards Marshall Eubanks T.M. Eubanks Multicast Technologies, Inc 10301 Democracy Lane, Suite 410 Fairfax, Virginia 22030 Phone : 703-293-9624 Fax : 703-293-9609 e-mail : tme@multicasttech.com http://www.multicasttech.com Test your network for multicast : http://www.multicasttech.com/mt/ Status of Multicast on the Web : http://www.multicasttech.com/status/index.html From mbaugher@cisco.com Mon Feb 10 16:19:23 2003 From: mbaugher@cisco.com (Mark Baugher) Date: Mon, 10 Feb 2003 08:19:23 -0800 Subject: [IETF-IDRM] Re: IDRM research group closed In-Reply-To: <199C1A22-3D05-11D7-92D6-0030656561EA@multicasttech.com> References: <00d201c2d110$953251a0$6401a8c0@D7CDKC01> Message-ID: <5.1.1.5.2.20030210081639.04dd5810@mira-sjc5-6.cisco.com> Marshall, At 09:36 AM 2/10/2003 -0500, Marshall Eubanks wrote: >Is this connected at all with the ISMA MPEG-4 DRM solutions ? No it is independent of the ISMA DRM Task Force specification, which is a=20 collection of open-standard protocols that can fit into an MPEG IPMP=20 framework in addition to many others. I expect that the outputs of the=20 ISMA DRM Task Force will become publicly available this year. Mark >On Monday, February 10, 2003, at 09:27 AM, chris mollis wrote: > >>OpenIPMP implements a reference-platform DRM system for mpeg4 audio/video, >>and mpeg1-L3 audio.. Please download at >>www.sourceforge.net/projects/openipmp. >> >>----- Original Message ----- >>From: >>To: >>Sent: Monday, February 10, 2003 4:53 AM >>Subject: [IETF-IDRM] Re: IDRM research group closed >> >> >>>Dear All, >>> >>>>For myself personally for example, there is quite a bit of interest but >>no >>>>corporate sponsorship. As an earlier correspondent pointed out, >>commercial >>>>demand is, whether we like it or not, a significant factor for such >>>efforts. >>> >>>my personal impression is that there is a huge commercial demand, but no >>>commercial sponsorship. >>> >>>In the Musicnetwork project we are also addressing protection issues. And >>>publishers are very interested in DRM technologies. But they need more >>>informations about DRM - but not only on technical but also on legal >>issues. And the >>>same is true for customers. E.g. most of them are afraid of DRM solutions >>>because of technical obstacles like audio files which can be played only >>on a >>>specific hardware device. >>> >>>And maybe developers of DRM technology do not foresee the importance of a >>>common standard due to users' demands: No user wants to buy a digital= item >>>which is sooner or later worthless because it will be in an "encrypted >>bottle". >>> >>>Maybe this is just due to that fact that DRM technology is quite a new >>>field. But enlightment and the availability of information would improve >>the >>>acceptance and therefore the development of DRM technologies by content >>owners, >>>providers and customers. So far it seems that DRM development is only >>>technologists driven. >>> >>>Maybe this picture is coloured too dark. But I am looking forward for= your >>>comments. >>> >>>Best wishes, >>> >>>Martin Schmucker >>> >>>@Gord: I will add you link to the forum of musicnetwork >>> (http://www.interactivemusicnetwork.org). >>> >>> >>>-- >>>+++ GMX - Mail, Messaging & more http://www.gmx.net +++ >>>NEU: Mit GMX ins Internet. Rund um die Uhr f=FCr 1 ct/ Min. surfen! >>> >>> >>>_______________________________________________ >>>ietf-idrm mailing list >>>ietf-idrm@idrm.org >>>http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/ietf-idrm >> >> >>_______________________________________________ >>ietf-idrm mailing list >>ietf-idrm@idrm.org >>http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/ietf-idrm > Regards > Marshall Eubanks > > >T.M. Eubanks >Multicast Technologies, Inc >10301 Democracy Lane, Suite 410 >Fairfax, Virginia 22030 >Phone : 703-293-9624 Fax : 703-293-9609 >e-mail : tme@multicasttech.com >http://www.multicasttech.com > >Test your network for multicast : >http://www.multicasttech.com/mt/ > Status of Multicast on the Web : > http://www.multicasttech.com/status/index.html > > >_______________________________________________ >ietf-idrm mailing list >ietf-idrm@idrm.org >http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/ietf-idrm