[AGL] all colors plus black and white

[Bill Irwin]

What's wrong with unfruitful discussions?  I thought that was what we were
all about!

What I was trying to get at is that the use of butterfly wings, or any other
material in a creation, is that materials do in fact have meaning.  That is
why they are used, they don't get in the way as Mike says, they are part of
the message.  A popular quote -"the medium is the Message".  Oil paint is a
material and somebody that knows how that works can do wonders, I am
thinking of Van Gough here in the way he applied his pigments.  His craft of
the brush stroke and use of the pigment to create a surface effect added to
his message and enhances the emotional effect.  I see many painters that
paint like house painters - they carefully mix up the color and apply it to
the area in a nice even manner, then for the next color area they do the
same.   Their craft of the brush stroke is non-existent and they seem to
think that the paint itself has no connotations.  For those people I say go
study Van Gough or Chinese brush painting.

A number of years back there was a guy here that did abstract collages using
dried banana bark and leaves, they were kind of good abstractions and
regularly got into juried exhibitions.  Using the banana leaves gave a
interesting effect and texture that you could never have gotten with paint.
Now is this "fine art" or "craft" ?   Fine art because it relied on
composition, color, abstraction, and 2 dimensions.  Craft because it used
banana leaves as the material and depended on the cutting and pasting of the
material and was about banana leaves to a great extent.

So therefore, I don't agree that paint is better than some other material
and that the material you do chose to work with does have meanings and that
is why you use them.  Paint has meaning also, particularly to people that
say painting is the only art form.  Many "fine artists" have poor concepts
when it comes to dealing with craft arts.
Aloha,
Ewie

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Jon Ford" <jonmfordster at hotmail.com>



> What Mike is saying might be true for purely abstract painting  produced

> according to a particular ideology of art. However, if you stretch this

kind

> of thiking too far, it starts to seem like "my advanced culture is

> inherently superior to your 'primitive' culture." We could debate about

this

> too, but it likely be a rather unfruitful discussion.

>

> Jon

>

>

> >From: "Bill Irwin" <billi at aloha.net>

> >

> >Clearly you don't have an understanding or appreciation for the craft

arts

> >where material is a major point.  Also take a look at Chinese brush

> >painting

> >where material (ink) and the craft of the brush stroke is a major

> >consideration.

> >

> >----- Original Message -----

> >From: "Michael Eisenstadt" <mike.eisenstadt at gmail.com>

> > >

> > > pigment out of a tube is better than feathers or butterfly wings

> > > because it has no associations and therefore gets in the way of

> > > the art less.