[AGL] Seduction--pet name for rape

[Fontaine Maverick]

Well, then. God help me if I ever read Brownmiller. I prefer to use the victim label sparingly - for people (men and women) who are truly unable to move out of the way of their oppressors.

----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Frances Morey 
  To: survivors' reminiscences about Austin Ghetto Daze in the 60s 
  Sent: Saturday, December 02, 2006 10:25 PM
  Subject: Re: [AGL] Seduction--pet name for rape


  Fontaine,
  I came to my conclusion about what constitutes rape when I read "Against Our Will" by Susan Brownmiller. She posits that it is seduction/rape whenever it isn't the woman's idea first. I believe that since we are the ones with the wombs it is up to us to determine when and with whom we have sex. I admit to being alcohol impaired every time I got raped. Jumping to a victim conclusion does come rather easily.
  Best,
  Frances

  Fontaine Maverick <fmaverick at austin.rr.com> wrote:
    I started having a problem with the conversation when Gerry used the word 
    seduction - Christina seduced Diego- c'mon! I think Diego must have been a 
    fascinating man (of course, I am relying on my Alfred Molina experience of 
    him, but also my feelings about his painting). Had I been Christina, I might 
    have taken my knickers off....in spite of my filial devotion to my sister..

    But Frances' notion that Christina was a passive victim is troubling to me. 
    In fact, I got a problem with characterizing women as victims in most 
    situations. Unless the man in question uses his physical strength, or the 
    woman is intellectually impaired, then each is an adult in the equation.

    And Mike, bohemian college girls in the sixties went out of their way to 
    shock. Your girlfriend was trying to impress you. Yes, women can get as 
    horny as men can (although none of us can truly know what the opposite 
    gender experiences.) But rape of men by women is rather rare doncha think?

    ----- Original Message ----- 
    From: "Michael Eisenstadt" 
    To: "survivors' reminiscences about Austin Ghetto Daze in the 60s" 

    Sent: Saturday, December 02, 2006 8:32 AM
    Subject: Re: [AGL] Frida and Froggy (her pet name for him)


    > Frances,
    >
    > It's the same for women. Getting wet is the same as a hard on. A girl
    > friend of mine many moons ago told me that when we first met, and as she
    > was watching me suck on the end of a Scripto mechanical pencil, she
    > felt her cunt open. This was in the Brooklyn College equivalent of the
    > Chuck Wagon.
    >
    > Only difference is it isnt visible or feelable if dancing or embracing.
    > And adolescent boys often prefer to keep their excitement private
    > and are embarassed to show it.
    >
    > The Scripto pencil will help in dating this episode.
    >
    > So next time you're dancing and you feel his boner, feel free to
    > Kerry Awn.
    >
    > Mike
    >
    > ----- Original Message ----- 
    > From: "Frances Morey" 
    >
    >> Gerr, Gerr, Gerr,
    >> There is no such thing as seducing a man against-his-will--since having 
    >> a
    >> hard-on is equivalent to implied consent.
    >> Frances
    >>
    >> Gerry wrote:
    >> Yes, and how are we to know if it wasn't Christina who seduced Diego?
    >> Takes
    >> 2 to tango. I've never understood the logic of jealous husbands shooting
    >> the
    >> guy who screwed their wife instead of shooting the wife. After all, it 
    >> was
    >> she who took the vow and then violated it...
    >> G 






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