[AGL] Re: [FedUp] A bit more action-reaction kneejerkedness...

Wayne Johnson cadaobh at shentel.net
Sun Mar 19 11:56:03 EST 2006


Amazing.  A "message" from Mr. Sturm is exactly like finding a turd in the swimming pool.

wgJ
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Frances Morey 
  To: survivors' reminiscences about Austin Ghetto Daze in the 60s 
  Sent: Sunday, March 19, 2006 10:19 AM
  Subject: Re: [AGL] Re: [FedUp] A bit more action-reaction kneejerkedness...


  Don't jump to any implications...

  Harry Edwards <laughingwolf at ev1.net> wrote: 
    The Dog not the Dogma. Now Frances, I happen to agree with you from 
    time to time. (Lemme see, when was the last time . . . ?) And 
    substance is in the eye of the beholder. (Among other things) I only 
    chimed in when you seemed to imply that organic produce was merely the 
    veggies without the external pesticides.

    On Mar 18, 2006, at 9:43 PM, Frances Morey wrote:

    > Harry can also be counted on to oppose anything I say whether or not 
    > he has anything substantive to add to the discussion. Maybe he is 
    > offended by my previous reference to Dimikinky. Oops, that post didn't 
    > make it. I may be able to resend it.
    >  
    > Frances
    >
    > Wayne Johnson wrote:
    >> Frances.
    >>  
    >> Good points all but trying to have a rational argument with Gerry is 
    >> like trying to have one with GWB.  Minds made up and committed to 
    >> dogma rarely flex.
    >>  
    >> wgJ
    >>> ----- Original Message -----
    >>> From: Frances Morey
    >>> To: survivors' reminiscences about Austin Ghetto Daze in the 60s
    >>> Sent: Saturday, March 18, 2006 5:09 PM
    >>> Subject: Re: [AGL] Re: [FedUp] A bit more action-reaction 
    >>> kneejerkedness...
    >>>
    >>> In response to Gerry's pontificating: But why waste my time, I 
    >>> wonder?
    >>>  
    >>> Have you lost your taste buds, girl?
    >>>  
    >>> A blind t aste test is the only way such a broadside could be 
    >>> measured.
    >>>  
    >>> ... 35 to 40% more nutrition...
    >>>  
    >>> Another baseless statistic off the top of the head. Where's the 
    >>> evidence?
    >>>  
    >>> ...in a typical row of say 50 plants, the insects will only eat 
    >>> those which are the runts of the litter..
    >>>  
    >>> That is really off the wall--insects eat according to however big 
    >>> their population has grown--think hoards of locusts who eat every 
    >>> available chloroblast. Insects have yet to be tested for for their 
    >>> ability to discern plant's age-determined palatability. The law of 
    >>> the jungle usually applies to animals, Gerry. It's fire that kills 
    >>> trees, trees try to overpower one another and vines that try to kill 
    >>> trees, kinda like a scissors, paper, rock. Of course, the activities 
    >>> of humans kill 'em a ll, environmental considerations be 
    >>> damned--think Easter Islanders.
    >>>  
    >>> ... big green cutworms who eat the whole plant before it makes 
    >>> fruit. These must be removed by hand (wear a glove). Kids like this 
    >>> activity and generally do a good job since the plants are at eye 
    >>> level to them...
    >>>  
    >>> My gramma and me as a toddler in our matching bonnets used to pluck 
    >>> insects off our carefully tended plants at dawn when they are most 
    >>> likely to be chomping away. Caterpillars go into hiding at full 
    >>> daylight when birds can see them, or the sun's too hot. We had a 
    >>> garden the size of a city lot and watered by flood irriga tion from 
    >>> the faucet at the high end of the plot. Gramma would carefully hoe 
    >>> channels to each of the planted rows. The system worked quite well, 
    >>> even easier than watering by hand held hose, and the water from our 
    >>> well didn't cost us anything.
    >>>  
    >>> ... Most likely any bites on the surface of the fruit are from 
    >>> birds...
    >>>  
    >>> Yikes, with avian flu in the wings, so to speak, this could be 
    >>> deadly!
    >>>  
    >>> ...Hopefully some of the exorbitant price you pay goes to trabajeros 
    >>> from Mexico...
    >>>  
    >>> Dream on, Gerry. You know better than that. Huelga, Now!
    >>>  
    >>> ...ones which are not cosmetically acceptable for the WF shelves 
    >>> (taste the same)....
    >>>  
    >>> Hmmm. Here we go predicting that which can only be determined 
    >>> by taste test. Who do you know who conduct s blind taste tests?
    >>>  
    >>> Good grief, I apparently do what Gerry does--disagree with each 
    >>> and every assertion, regardless of right or wong headed.  It must be 
    >>> as catching as avian flu.
    >>>  
    >>> Susi,
    >>> I feel sorry for Eugene. Has Walmart landed there yet?
    >>> Frances
    >>>  
    >>>  
    >>>  
    >>>  
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>
    >>> Wayne Johnson wrote:
    >>>> Jeez, even when Gerry has some good ideas about things, he still 
    >>>> manages to be a complete ass-hole!  I guess being a rude, 
    >>>> disrespectful, smug and only partially informed Jerk has become a 
    >>>> permanent way of life for him.  How sad.
    >>>>  
    >>>> wgJ
    >>>>> ----- Original Message -----
    >>>>> From: susan
    >>>>> To: survivors' reminiscences about Austin Ghetto Daze in the 60s
    >>>>> Sent: Saturday, March 18, 2006 2:37 PM
    >>>>> Subject: Re: [AGL] Re: [FedUp] A couple of items for the grocery 
    >>>>> discussion...
    >>>>>
    >>>>> whole foods is coming to eugene, however they had a contingency 
    >>>>> clause that said the city would fund a parking garage to be built 
    >>>>> by their contractor, or no deal,  eugene has plenty of upscale 
    >>>>> organic grocery stores, though nothing on the order of whole 
    >>>>> foods.  after lots of public dismay, the city council okayed the 
    >>>>> deal, so long to the small guys who've been here for years 
    >>>>> providing organic produce and herbal/alternative health items as a 
    >>>>> choice to safeway/albertsons type stores. i'm sure the store will 
    >>>>> look good from the new federal courthouse being built across the 
    >>>>> stre et. way to go eugene..
    >>>>> susi
    >>>>>
    >>>>>
    >>>>>
    >>>>> on 3/18/06 12:38 PM, Gerry at mesmo at gilanet.com wrote:
    >>>>>
    >>>>>> The wealth in America is staggering, unprecidented in human 
    >>>>>> history.
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> And so is the debt...The new bu dget bill, courtesy of the 
    >>>>>> conservatives in the white house, adds $30K for every man, woman, 
    >>>>>> and child. Need an economic boom? Increase the credit card limits 
    >>>>>> by 50% and watch the dow rise.
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> After all a tomato is a tomato is a tomato. What is the opposite 
    >>>>>> of organic anyway, inorganic?
    >>>>>> Pesticides can be washed off. Who would find it more desirable to 
    >>>>>> share the food supply with insects than wash their produce with 
    >>>>>> soap and water? Often shoppers will turn up their noses at any 
    >>>>>> evidence of insect bites which are inevitable without some form 
    >>>>>> of an insecticide shield.
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> Frances, when you go out on a limb like this I for one wonder if 
    >>>>>> you really know anything about food or not. The chemically grown, 
    >>>>>> thick-skin ned, pulpy crap that passes for a tomato at the local 
    >>>>>> super market compared to a real heirl oom fruit grown in mineral 
    >>>>>> rich soil is like night and day. Lab studies reveal that organic 
    >>>>>> means about 35 to 40% more nutrition. Have you lost your t aste 
    >>>>>> buds, girl? The opposite of organic is chemical. Sharing the food 
    >>>>>> supply with insects is the natural and inescapable way. But in a 
    >>>>>> typical row of say 50 plants, the insects will only eat those 
    >>>>>> which are the runts of the litter. The biggest, healthiest plants 
    >>>>>> ward them off. The real enemy of tomato plants is the big green 
    >>>>>> cutworms who eat the whole plant before it makes fruit. These 
    >>>>>> must be removed by hand (wear a glove). Kids like this activity 
    >>>>>> and generally do a good job since the plants are at eye level to 
    >>>>>> them . Most likely any bites on the surface of the fruit are from 
    >>>>>> birds. Even the tomatoes at the health food outlets in winter are 
    >>>>>> quite pulpy and often thick-skinned. Hydrophonically grown fruit 
    >>>>>> is to me tasteless and weird.
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> As we speak I am starting tomato plants inside, about 7 varieties 
    >>>>>> this year. They won't go into the ground until after the frost 
    >>>>>> threat (mid May). The rows they will occupy are currently 
    >>>>>> sporting a crop of winter whea t which will be plowed under in a 
    >>>>>> few weeks, adding to the micro-organism base below which is fed 
    >>>>>> by layers of cow manure, straw, and leaves which have been down 
    >>>>>> there cooking since mid January, kept damp by buried soak hose. 
    >>>>>> Lots of worms already on the scene.
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> The tomato plants will be transplanted in a double handful of 
    >>>>>> fresh compost, then topped by a cage of hogwire. Around the cages 
    >>>>>> I will string an agricultural fabric (agribon) which covers the 
    >>>>>> cage and creates an environment which keeps out the bugs and some 
    >>>>>> of the UV rays as well as the wind, completely covered. Also 
    >>>>>> helps keep them warm at night, a big plus in the desert. The 
    >>>>>> result is soft-skinned fruits which knock your socks off at the 
    >>>>>> fi rst bite. The surplus is cut into thin strips and dried in a 
    >>>>>> dehydrator for use in winter. The thinner the strip the less 
    >>>>>> electricity it takes to dry. You can a lso dry them in the sun, 
    >>>>>> laid out on a flat surface covered with agribon to keep the flies 
    >>>>>> off. The machine is quicker and produces more uniform results. 
    >>>>>> Most of last year's crop is now gone, consumed in soups or added 
    >>>>>> to essene bread dough. Long live tomatoes!
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> You can find cooperatives on the internet which will sell you 
    >>>>>> packaged and dried organic produce at a decent price. Organize 
    >>>>>> some friends and buy it bulk. As for the fresh stuff, court a 
    >>>>>> neighbor with a garden, or, heaven forbid, learn to grow it 
    >>>>>> yourself. Lots of little old ladies in my community who thrive on 
    >>>>>> and with their gardens. Even the patio style of gardening beats 
    >>>>>> paying an ar m and a leg for inferior food at the markets.
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> In defense of Whole Foods, it does take more care and thus hands 
    >>>>>> on labor to grow good veggies. Hopefully some of the exorbitant 
    >>>>>> price you pay goes to trabajeros from Mexico who do the work that 
    >>>>>> puts the food on our tables. A friend of mine signed a contract 
    >>>>>> with WF recently to grow winter squash for them this year. He 
    >>>>>> gets $.6 0 a pound. It will sell for over $2.00  a pound 
    >>>>>> eventually. But WF sends trucks down here to pick it up and haul 
    >>>>>> it ABQ/Santa Fe, something he cannot do. I will pick around his 
    >>>>>> field and score some good fruits--or wait and take the ones which 
    >>>>>> are not cosmetically acceptable for the WF shelves (tast e the 
    >>>>>> same).
    >>>>>> G
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
    >>>>>>> From: Frances Morey  
    >>>>>>> To: Jane Walker  
    >>>>>>> Cc: Austin List  
    >>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, March 18, 2006 9:20 AM
    >>>>>>> Subject: [AGL] Re: [FedUp] A couple of items for the grocery 
    >>>>>>> discussion...
    >>>>>>> Hi, Jane,
    >>>>>>> I can credit you with the early-on info on Whole Foods...
    >>>>>>> Write once in a while.
    >>>>>>> Best,
    >>>>>>> Frances
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>>> Frances Morey wrote:
    >>>>>>>> One early-on employee told me that first-time-shoppers at WF 
    >>>>>>>> would cruise the lanes and fill up their baskets as usual only 
    >>>>>>>> to find that the total after check-out was as much as double 
    >>>>>>>> what they were used to paying. On many occasions, she told me, 
    >>>>>>>> such shoppers would turn away and leave their full grocery 
    >>>>>>>> basket behind without paying, stunned from market shock.
    >>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>> Whole Foods is more about conspicous consumption than anthing 
    >>>>>>>> else.
    >>>>>>>> The wealth in America is staggering, unprecidented in human 
    >>>>>>>> history. Any venue for showing it off is embraced, even grocer y 
    >>>>>>>> shopping. I go to WF as I would to a restaurant and think of it 
    >>>>>>>> as the biggest deli on earth. I'm glad to know that WF pays 
    >>>>>>>> well, which not always reflects in employee attention to 
    >>>>>>>> customers. I discontinued using Celes tial Seasoning tea when I 
    >>>>>>>> saw a mention in a business zine that bragged about their 
    >>>>>>>> paying minimum wage.
    >>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>> Thanks for turning us on to the Johnson Farm on Holly St. I saw 
    >>>>>>>> it and thought it was some kind of community garden. I paid $4 
    >>>>>>>> .50 last Wednesday for their smallest brownie and two little 
    >>>>>>>> turnips at Boggy Creek Farm, paying for the the chance to see 
    >>>>>>>> their chickens, old timey garden and hob nobbing more than for 
    >>>>>>>> the food. The boquet of snapdragons cost as much as a similar 
    >>>>>>>> sized boquet of roses at HEB.
    >>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>> I preferred Trader Toms (or something like that) when I was in 
    >>>>>>>> San Francisco. It was kinda like a chain of Wheatsville Co-ops 
    >>>>>>>> with even more reasonable pricing. Before Alamo Drafthouse 
    >>>>>>>> South captured the old Fiesta, nee City Market, location on S. 
    >>>>>>>> Lamar I envisioned a Tom's as a kick ass competitor to both WF, 
    >>>>>>>> Central Market and Wheatsville. Ah, no luck. They only operate 
    >>>>>>>> on the West Coast and up East.
    >>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>> Frances Morey
    >>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>> Sherry Coldsmith wrote:
    >>>>>>>>> The first link is to an article that rags on Whole Foods.  The 
    >>>>>>>>> second
    >>>>>>>>> link may be of interest to Austinites who really do want to buy
    >>>>>>>>> locally.  I get my veg from Johns on's and the quality if 
    >>>>>>>>> superb.   Tho
    >>>>>>>>> you have some control over what they bring you in the weekly or
    >>>>>>>>> bi-weekly box, you'll also get some exotics, like kohlrabi, 
    >>>>>>>>> which will
    >>>>>>>>> require you to sha rpen your culinary skills and look up a few 
    >>>>>>>>> recipes.
    >>>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>>> Sherry
    >>>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>>> http://www.slate.com/id/2138176/
    >>>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>>> http://www.localharvest.org/farms/M12509
    >>>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>> Hey you - we like you being here!  But, if you don't wanna, 
    >>>>>>>> send an email to:
    >>>>>>>> fed_up_with_status_quo-unsubscribe at yahoogroups.com
    >>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>>
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    >>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>>
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    >>>>>>
    >>>>>
    >>>



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