stop me before I rant again

Jon Ford austin-ghetto-list@pairlist.net
Mon Sep 6 15:24:11 2004


<html><div style='background-color:'><DIV class=RTE>
<P>Mike-- All this controversy has made me interested in returning to Israel again. I'd also &nbsp;like to see some of our "Israell bashers" on the list take a little trip that way to see what it's really like. We had a long talk on our recent flighr back from Frankfurt with a Jewish-American woman who goes to Israel with her kids&nbsp; a couple of times a year to see her husbands family, who migrated there from Brazil 20years ago. She didn't feel the place was "on the ropes," either.</P>
<P>Jon</P>
<P>&nbsp;</P></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>&gt;From: "Michael Eisenstadt" &lt;michaele@HotPOP.com&gt; 
<DIV></DIV>&gt;Reply-To: austin-ghetto-list@pairlist.net 
<DIV></DIV>&gt;To: &lt;mesmo@gilanet.com&gt;, &lt;austin-ghetto-list@pairlist.net&gt; 
<DIV></DIV>&gt;Subject: Re: stop me before I rant again 
<DIV></DIV>&gt;Date: Mon, 6 Sep 2004 13:42:29 -0600 
<DIV></DIV>&gt; 
<DIV></DIV>&gt;Gerry, 
<DIV></DIV>&gt; 
<DIV></DIV>&gt;I dont know how much you want to know about 
<DIV></DIV>&gt;Israel considering your heritage ;-) but I thought 
<DIV></DIV>&gt;I'd bring to your attention a book I just finished 
<DIV></DIV>&gt;reading, Real Jews by Noah Efron, an Israeli 
<DIV></DIV>&gt;professor. (you might ask for it through Interlibrary 
<DIV></DIV>&gt;Loan at your local public library). 
<DIV></DIV>&gt; 
<DIV></DIV>&gt;It is about the Haredim, the super orthodox, 
<DIV></DIV>&gt;not to be confused with religious West Bank 
<DIV></DIV>&gt;settlers, these are the old timey jews in black 
<DIV></DIV>&gt;studying the bible being their main occupation. 
<DIV></DIV>&gt; 
<DIV></DIV>&gt;It is a more or less sympathetic look at them, 
<DIV></DIV>&gt;written primarily to inform secular Israelis who 
<DIV></DIV>&gt;resent the Haredim as corrupt free-loaders. 
<DIV></DIV>&gt;According to Efron, the Haredim are about 
<DIV></DIV>&gt;10% of the population and as far as one can 
<DIV></DIV>&gt;tell, this percentage is not changing very much 
<DIV></DIV>&gt;despite the large families they have. Apparently 
<DIV></DIV>&gt;a lot of their children abandon the faith and 
<DIV></DIV>&gt;become secular. The reason they have such 
<DIV></DIV>&gt;political clout is, in part, because they practice 
<DIV></DIV>&gt;massive fraud in elections with faked IDs, 
<DIV></DIV>&gt;multiple voting, and voting the cemeteries. 
<DIV></DIV>&gt;At recent elections, secular poll-watchers were 
<DIV></DIV>&gt;in place at Haredim precincts but it turned out 
<DIV></DIV>&gt;to be very hard to closely surveille the IDs of 
<DIV></DIV>&gt;the voters as regards their real identity. 
<DIV></DIV>&gt; 
<DIV></DIV>&gt;But it is not as you say. Israel, surprisingly, at 
<DIV></DIV>&gt;this moment is having an economic boom with 
<DIV></DIV>&gt;a strong growth rate. 
<DIV></DIV>&gt; 
<DIV></DIV>&gt;As best I can tell from reading Ha'aretz and 
<DIV></DIV>&gt;the Jerusalem Post, the Israel I defend is NOT 
<DIV></DIV>&gt;on the ropes. If anything their internal strife that 
<DIV></DIV>&gt;you speak of seems far less than that here in 
<DIV></DIV>&gt;the US. Why do I get the sense that it would 
<DIV></DIV>&gt;delight you if they WERE in internal strife? 
<DIV></DIV>&gt; 
<DIV></DIV>&gt;Could it just be that you got an attitude towards 
<DIV></DIV>&gt;these folks? I hope not. 
<DIV></DIV>&gt; 
<DIV></DIV>&gt;Nice though that you remember the Israel of 
<DIV></DIV>&gt;the 50s which was a far less corrupt society 
<DIV></DIV>&gt;than it is now (the way it changed was explained 
<DIV></DIV>&gt;to me by an Israeli math teacher/rabbi on a 
<DIV></DIV>&gt;Pan Am flight from NYC to Houston in 1979). 
<DIV></DIV>&gt;It's a complicated country. 
<DIV></DIV>&gt; 
<DIV></DIV>&gt;Mike 
<DIV></DIV>&gt; 
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