Fools rush in...again

[Gerry Storm]

Yeah, you make some good points. Hard to argue with many of them. Not
defending the MP's who are generally not the top of the class in the
military. Still I think you underestimate the pervading fear that is quite
consuming when you are on foreign soil fighting the natives. You can't let
the rage subside or you make yourself vulnerable, quite often it is the rage
that saves you...and you remember this afterward, knowing what you are
capable of in the right situation.

This most recent debacle of the bombing and invasion of the wedding party is
especially outrageous. They even killed the musicians...That fucking marine
commander who is standing there lieing through his teeth and bragging about
how proud of his men he is, is a war criminal, plain and simple. Just watch,
by this time next week the media will have buried this story and let it die
on the vine, and the marines will be looking for another adventure and
excuse to use their weapons on whomever happens to be chosen. Brave men, my
ass.
G


----- Original Message -----
From: Wayne Johnson <cadaobh@shentel.net>
To: <austin-ghetto-list@pairlist.net>
Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 11:24 AM
Subject: Re: Fools rush in...again


> I agree that our Beloved Fourth Estate has had its collective head up its
> commercial arse for the past several years.  A new and entirely
appropriate
> scatological meaning to the word Imbedded.  As in...up some general's ass.
>
> Meanwhile, I think Igor is an idiot who makes idiotic arguments.  If I was
> being shot at and had my buddy's guts in my lap, I would likely kill
> everything in sight.  Until the rage subsided.  The Vikings/Celts called
it
> Bezerker or something similar, the madness of war which overcomes you.
>
> These morons, however, were *not* being shot at.  They were ex-cops,
> National Guard MPs and following the entirely illegal arguments of our
> "intelligence officers".  How stupid can they or the Intel/G5 people be to
> *film* this crap?  How stupid for *their*  so-called "command" not to know
> what was going one?  Jeez marie, did any of these people go to the US War
> College? Or did they just follow their "kings' lament" as to "who will rid
> me of this pesky priest".  Or words to that effect.
>
> When Rummy says the Convention is out the window or "irrelevant", what
> message does that send in this day of Instant CNN and Email?  Hey, all
> restrictions are off...go have fun?  What is this the fucking Inquisition?
> How many years "damage control" will be in place in the rest of the World?
> I might like to visit the "rest of the World" someday and I don't want to
be
> a goddam target because of the persistnet jingoism and moronic blathering
of
> Bush and his fetid cronies.
>
> And I still think Igor is an idiot.  He can think the same of me.  I don't
> give a damn.
>
> Adios.
>
> wayne
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Gerry Storm" <mesmo@gilanet.com>
> To: <austin-ghetto-list@pairlist.net>
> Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 10:35 AM
> Subject: Re: Fools rush in...again
>
>
> > Wayne,
> > Your flame on Igor's post misses the point that he is trying to make
which
> > is: brutal attrocities occur at the front and in the prison camps of
every
> > war and the media reports on only a small number of them. Abu Ghraib is
> not
> > a particularly attrocious example of these but par for the course, not
on
> > the same scale as Andersonville. The media fit over it will do some good
> but
> > will not stop brutality at the front. Those who are there doing the
dirty
> > work have no time nor stomach for their critics well behind the front
who
> > find fault with their methods and actions. When someone is trying to
kill
> > you and you are seeing your buddies fall, you don't find much solace in
> the
> > Geneva Convention. Once you pull the trigger it is too late for
apologies.
> > Brutality happens.
> >
> > The leaders of the US did not comprehend what they were in for by
starting
> > this war, without provocation, and they are helpless to do anything now
to
> > put out the fire. Once you loose those terrible spirits it is all but
> > impossible to stop them, a truth the old soldiers can tell you about but
> one
> > that the fools in the white house did not and apparently do not
> comprehend.
> > The only way to end it is to leave, and hope that time will heal the
> wounds.
> >
> > It is difficult to know how ugly war is until you walk through the ruins
> of
> > a country where one has just been fought and see the terrible toll on
all
> > life forms caught up in the act. This overwhelming sadness is not
> > communicable.
> > G
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Wayne Johnson <cadaobh@shentel.net>
> > To: <austin-ghetto-list@pairlist.net>
> > Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 6:15 AM
> > Subject: Fools rush in...again
> >
> >
> > > You know Igor, I frankly don't give a damn about your experiences.
> > Nothing
> > > you have written that I have seen suggests that you have developed any
> > > sensitivity to anything.
> > >
> > > I have known a lot of Nam vets who learned a great deal about
themselves
> > and
> > > about command decisions and how the government fucks everyone over.
> They
> > > were/are brave men who cried for their lost comrades and their own
lost
> > > innocence.  I am proud of them and their contribution for what they
> > believed
> > > was a just and noble cause.  That I don't agree with their
understanding
> > in
> > > no fashion belittles or demeans their sacrifice.
> > >
> > > Glad you don't like Halliburton but the rest of your views just depict
a
> > > mind that is closed and happy to be that way.
> > >
> > > As for Andersonville, there were many people who despised this
situation
> > and
> > > railed against it.  It was after all "bleeding heart liberals" who
were
> > the
> > > Abolitionist movement.  And the Civil Rights movement after that.  And
> the
> > > Environmental movement after that.  And the Regime Change movement
right
> > > now.
> > >
> > > If you can't understand the broader implications of what is going on
> here
> > > and in Iraq, then stick to something you can grapple with like Spider
> man.
> > > And for pity's sake, man, lose those stupid phrases like "bleeding
heart
> > > liberal".  Makes you sound like more of a red-neck moron than you
> probably
> > > are.  Find yourself a nice Evangelical Church somewhere and have a
good
> > roll
> > > on the floor.
> > >
> > > Oh, dear, I have flamed again.  Good.
> > >
> > > wayne johnson
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "IgorLoving" <lovingigor@earthlink.net>
> > > To: <austin-ghetto-list@pairlist.net>
> > > Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2004 9:06 PM
> > > Subject: RE: How did we get to Abu Ghraib?
> > >
> > >
> > > > War is a tarvesty but it has been with us since forever. If you read
> > about
> > > prisons you will see that they are all bad. Andersonville didn't have
a
> > > bunch of bleeding heart liberals crying about treatment. The Japanese
> > > treated out men like shit at Batan and no one worte stupid whiney
stuff
> > > about that. Read about John McCain and his experiences in Hanoi and
you
> > get
> > > the idea. I did two tours in Nam and the last one wasn't much fun. So
> the
> > > babble about our guys kicking ass in the prison is natural stuff. I
> don't
> > > get too excited about it. Americans are the same as evweryone else and
> > that
> > > is the was revealed. Hah we are just as much a bunch of ass holes as
> > > everyone else we just have the dumb ass media looking over our
sholders.
> > The
> > > French I served with in Angola hated the media. The media told what
they
> > > were doing. We didn't need media to do the job. The job was to make
the
> > > world safe for Hailburton and we did it well , sort of.
> > > >
> > > > ----Original Message-----
> > > > From: Frances Morey <frances_morey@excite.com>
> > > > Sent: May 20, 2004 12:28 AM
> > > > To: austin-ghetto-list@pairlist.net
> > > > Subject: RE: How did we get to Abu Ghraib?
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Wayne,
> > > > I don't think I have zip file capability on this computer. The last
> time
> > I
> > > tried to open a zip file something wormed into every nook and crany of
> the
> > > stored files with pop-up-poop-nonsense, some 42 screens of it, which I
> had
> > > to delete every time I turned on the machine--so I am wary of them.
What
> > is
> > > the attachment, photo or text? Sounds like a road movie, "The Road to
> Abu
> > > Ghraib," staring Lyndie and her consort.
> > > > Frances
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >  --- On Wed 05/19, Wayne Johnson < cadaobh@shentel.net > wrote:
> > > > From: Wayne Johnson [mailto: cadaobh@shentel.net]
> > > > To: austin-ghetto-list@pairlist.net
> > > >      Cc: strongjim@yahoo.com
> > > > Date: Wed, 19 May 2004 14:47:48 -0400
> > > > Subject: How did we get to Abu Ghraib?
> > > >
> > > > <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
> > > > <HTML><HEAD>
> > > > <META http-equiv=Content-Type content="text/html;
charset=iso-8859-1">
> > > > <META content="MSHTML 6.00.2800.1400" name=GENERATOR>
> > > > <STYLE></STYLE>
> > > > </HEAD>
> > > > <BODY bgColor=#ffffff>
> > > > <DIV> </DIV></BODY></HTML>
> > > > <p>Attachment: Milgram.zip  (953.17KB)<br>
> > > >
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