Julia K.
Wayne Johnson
austin-ghetto-list@pairlist.net
Thu May 20 08:40:02 2004
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So, Jon, are you using the phrase "old hippie" in a pejorative sense?
Some people, who were once "young hippies", had some rather interesting =
experiences and made some rather intriguing contributions to our =
culture, some good, some bad. Many actually contributed a great deal to =
visual and poetic arts, music, intellectual culture and, egad, computer =
programming.
Alas, I guess you mean aging erases all in America, leaving all "good" =
things in the hands of.....others.
wj
btw. Have you actually read anything Kristeva has written?
----- Original Message -----=20
From: Jon Ford=20
To: austin-ghetto-list@pairlist.net=20
Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 6:24 PM
Subject: Re:Julia K.
Michael-- sorry you didn't get past page two, but here is an interview =
with Julia which might set you right. She sounds like an old hippie to =
me!
JON
=20
Julia Kristeva is a world famous semiotician, feminist =
theorist, psychoanalyst and at the same time an interesting creative =
writer. She was born in Bulgaria in 1941, but came to Paris in 1965 =
where she became immersed in Parisian intellectual life. Her acclaimed =
novel "Les Samou=EFs" (1990) analyzes the Parisian intellectual =
avant-garde to which she has belonged ever since. And though =
psychoanalysis remains one of the major orienting and formative=20
An Interview with Julia Kristeva=20
by Nina Zivancevici
Parisian intellectual avant-garde to which she has belonged ever =
since. And though psychoanalysis remains one of the major orienting and =
formative dimensions of her work, especially as regards her reflections =
upon the nature of the feminine, she has also continued her research on =
the nature of language and examined the processes leading to the =
emergence of the work of art. As the theorist John Lechte points out, " =
because of the intimate link between art and the formation of =
subjectivity, Kristeva has always found art to be a particularly =
fruitful basis for analysis. " Since the 1960s, she has=20
=20
=20
=20
been a leading force in the critique of representation and her =
most recent book is a critical study of Colette's work and life, that is =
to say, one of the numerous projects that she has been energetically =
working on.=20
Q: When did you start getting interested in the notion of the =
"feminine"? Was it with the exploration of the notion of =D2chora=D3or =
the female voice in linguistics and semiology? Or rather, from that =
point on how have you arrived at the so-called feminist studies and =
writing understood in terms of their sociological and/or aesthetic =
significance?=20
J.Kristeva: It is very difficult to trace back my interest in =
the "feminine". I suppose that at the very moment in which I started =
asking questions about myself the question of the =D2feminine=D3 had =
already been formulated in my mind, so one could say perhaps it started =
in the period of my adolescence when I became interested in literature =
which necessarily asks questions about the sexual differences. But, you =
are right, in my theoretical work, this question is raised in a more =
succinct manner, perhaps also more discreet one, but which was =
nevertheless very intense
It must be said that this question is related to the notion of =
"chora" which directs us back to the archaic state of language . This =
state is known to a child who is in a state of osmosis with his/her =
mother during which language manifests itself as co-lalia , a melodic =
alliteration that precedes the introduction of signs within a syntactic =
order. The period during which I started developing this notion was that =
of the writing of my Ph.D on the avant-garde of the 19th century =
(Mallarm=E8 and Lautreeamont) and I had understood how much of that, =
what we call hermiticism in literature, is connected to the =
rehabilitation, more or less conscious, of that archaic language. By the =
way, I was also at that time undergoing an analysis myself, and so =
became convinced that what we have discussed was really true.=20
Q: Is it difficult to "abandon" or at least to set aside one's =
mother tongue and write in another language ?
Kristeva: No, I haven't had the impression that I had abandoned =
my mother tongue by coming to France because I had learnt French when I =
was four or five and had been bilingual. It is true though that the =
transition from one mother tongue to the other is a real matricide =
particularly when one ends up expressing himself only in this second =
language and one=D5s rapport to the first one remains extremely limited, =
which is my case, but it didn=D5t happen with me in that era (of coming =
to France). It was quite a gradual change.=20
Q: Given the fact that you have written a lot about the =
importance of the so-called "sick" states of mind, could you tell us =
whether they are related in any way to Art ? Would you see Art as the =
means of healing them or do you see it as an independent entity? Is Art =
a sort of "love" for you (the way Freud would have it) and a sort of =
human cure?=20
Kristeva: It has always shocked commentators when I affirm my =
agreement with the ancient Greeks who viewed art as catharsis or =
purification and I would add that it is a sort of sublimation for the =
"borderline" states, in the broadest sense of the term, that is, it =
comprises those characterized by fragility. If we analyze contemporary =
art, we get the impression that two types of fragility are examined by =
contemporary artists. On one hand, we have perversion, that is, all =
sorts of sexual transgressions. To this effect, it is enough to just =
browse through contemporary books or simply look at the "culture" pages =
of "Lib=E8ration" which review exhibitions to see that the form and the =
content of the experience serve as means of overcoming these states. =
They testify to the existence of these states, as well as that of a =
certain desire to make them public, or even share them with others, that =
is, to take them out of their closet which is! a soothing action after =
all despite its commercial aspect since one turns a "shameful thing" =
into something positive. So you see, here we have something that =
transcends the notion of "cure" and is at times something gratifying.=20
Q: Does contemporary art have to do with Voyeurism, as is the =
case with the most recent literature nowadays which purports to describe =
the most intimate states of the body and the soul ?=20
Kristeva: Absolutely! This is ever the case with literature and =
when it does not try to treat perversion, it is deals with psychotic =
states, that is, the states of identity loss, the loss of language, the =
borderline cases which cohabit and coexist with delirium and violence, =
but all of this does not have to bear the imprint of something negative. =
Some think that these works are scandal-oriented, others think that they =
rejoice in ugliness , yes, certainly there are elements of such =
orientations in them, but, on the other hand, the existence of these =
works is also a research -- often in a very specific manner -- on the =
anticipation of difficulty of living. And Art can play an important role =
here since it can contribute to a certain creative assumption of such a =
difficulty. Nevertheless, I personally remain a bit skeptical of a =
certain drift or tendency of contemporary art to content itself with =
such, so I believe, feeble appropri! ations of these traumatic states. =
We remain here at the level of the statement of the clinical cases with =
an almost documentary style photography of these cases wherein the =
investment and the effort made in the exploration of new forms or new =
thoughts remains less visible. So, it is something regrettable which =
every so often leaves me with the impression that when I visit museums =
or read certain art books, I am looking into psychoanalytic or even =
psychiatric archives. But, perhaps this is an indispensable experience.=20
Q: But you haven't always felt this way- we remember the time =
when you wrote about Bellini=C9=20
Kristeva: That's right, I haven't always felt this way -- this =
is a very particular moment in art history which deepened and probed a =
certain aspect of a widespread existential malaise and discontent while =
neglecting the possibility of its overcoming.=20
Q: Well, along this line, you wrote in "Tales of Love" that "the =
psychoanalytic couch is the only place where the social contract =
authorizes explicitly psychoanalytic investigation, but "leaves Love out =
of it." However, we find this type of investigation in literature and =
art as well. You have recently analyzed the "investigation" of the =
writer Colette whose work deals extensively with love and emotions. Why =
Colette ?=20
Kristeva: Why Colette? Because in my trilogy on the feminine =
genius I tried to analyze the works of two dramatic women who represent =
the tragic aspect of our (20th) century, Hanna Arendt's on =
"Totalitarianism" and Melanie Klein's on psychosis, especially =
children's psychosis, and it seemed to me important (not only to me =
personally but also for the sake of objectivity) to pay homage to the =
other aspect of our civilization which is notably our century's source =
of joy, that is, the feminist liberation and "joie de vivre". And =
Colette excels in that appropriation of the national language in which =
she delights and leads to paroxysms of beauty that trace a path which =
goes beyond the scandal of a woman who asserts her liberty and =
authority. So, for me, she has become indispensable.=20
Q: In your novel "Les Samoura.s" you have shown a great literary =
talent and a certain sense of humor which is certainly lacking in your =
analytic work. Why have you stopped your literary production, that is to =
say, writing of novels ?=20
Kristeva: Oh, I haven't stopped it for after "Les Samoura.s" I =
wrote "The old man the wolves," then "Possesions," and now I am going to =
write yet another thriller which will be called, as it seems now, "Our =
Byzantium". I=D5d like to continue writing in this polar style and with =
a certain political motivation. It will be concerned with the =
possibility -- or the impossibility -- of unifying Eastern Europe with =
Western Europe. It will deal with the Crusades and in it the modern =
characters would reveal their ancestors who had been in the Crusades, a =
catastrophic enterprise which eventually failed as you know, but which =
has been in its essence an attempt at unifying Europe, an unhappy =
attempt though. So, I am going to ask a question about the tragedy of =
this Europe which is now divided, and also this would be a way for me to =
visit my orthodox origins where I'd also attempt to revive some of my =
childhood souvenirs.=20
Q: That's right, the area of Eastern or Central Europe really =
belongs to "Byzantium".=20
Kristeva: Yes, we are Byzantium, that is, the Balkans, and I am =
very proud of the fact that I come from that region. And that's =
something which is unknown to the West. While it is true that what has =
survived of Byzantium is in a state of cultural decadence and terrible =
economic poverty with nothing in it that could seduce the Westerners, it =
is indisputably the treasure of our rich historical memory that is =
reflected, as far as I can see, in the dignified sensitivity of people =
who don=D5t ask for anything but the minimum allowing them to continue =
living as the well-educated and highly intelligent men and women who =
should be less exposed to mentally exhausting pangs of melancholy and =
the socially debilitating impact of the economic predominance of the =
mafia that is the case nowadays.=20
Q: In your novel "Possesions" you started something quite =
interesting, something that you stopped pursuing after having written =
the first chapter though, and that particular thing is the =
psychoanalysis of art which also includes that of the artists and their =
respective works. Would it be possible to pursue research in this =
particular field, namely, an analysis of the history of art by following =
different works of art from different epochs?=20
Kristeva: I have really enjoyed myself writing about these =
different works of art, notably, on representations of decapitation, and =
I believe that the novel as genre, especially thriller which is an open =
genre and completely renewable allows for this type of digression in =
writing. But they have severely criticized me for it and told me that =
the book was too intellectual, very brainy and that the reader who =
wanted to know how the crime was being developed and the murder had to =
suffer by having had to wait. That was the malevolent reaction of those =
who have known me as an intellectual and who did not like the fact that =
I was going to write novels. So, there is a certain tendency in France, =
or perhaps elsewhere too, to put labels on people- if you are a teacher, =
remain a teacher, and if you are a writer, remain a writer, but the two =
of them at the same time- that you cannot be! So, perhaps I will =
continue in that direction , that ! of novel writing, I don't know. I =
have just finished the book about Colette, and my new thriller is still =
in notes and scratches, it is not articulated yet, but I am not sure =
that the fragments which deal with the so-called esthetic problems are =
excluded from it. It is true we cannot insert a dissertation in a novel, =
but perhaps we could set a basis there for it.=20
Q: I believe that one could read your book "The Intimate Revolt" =
in the light of your dialogue with Hannah Arendt. In fact, she was the =
one who has spoken of the misery of human beings who are not allowed to =
have "contemplative" ( read creative) life and who are thus condemned to =
lead an "active" life, that is, to have a miserable job. Is it the =
problem of our times that there exist such individuals who revolt =
against the fact that they cannot realize themselves? That is, who are =
angst-ridden and end up revolting against themselves?=20
Kristeva: I believe that you were right to make such assumptions =
about my eventual dialogue with Hannah Arendt -- I have been reading her =
work for quite a while and I'd say, in all modesty, that a lot of my =
writing, consciously or unconsciously, is tied to her thought . The idea =
of "revolt" was an effort to put myself in relationship with what we =
hear as "her own thinking" which, following Heidegger's, opposes and =
relativizes calculative reasoning. As she was very attentive to the work =
of Heidegger, she conceived of thinking as an inquiry, as an =
interrogatory process and opposed herself to the calculative framework =
which structures and characterizes contemporary behavior. My work has =
found itself a bit within this horizon but I also derived my experience =
from the psychoanalytical approach which relativizes everyone's identity =
as well as his/her past. Moreover, I derived my experience from literary =
works, such as Proust's "Reche! rche de temps perdu;" for instance, from =
his flexing of language, metaphors and the syntax. I tried to rethink =
the mental disposition which helps us carry on, the one which is not a =
mere repetition of a cliche, something which is like an act of rebirth, =
that is, rebirth which our thinking re-examines together with our =
interior life as well as the very opening of the inquiry. This is what I =
take "revolt" to be. So, it is neither an expression of simple =
existential anguish nor contesting a socio-political order, but =
re-establishment of things which we start again. And, in this sense, =
revolt which engulfs the psychic space is a form of life, be it the =
state of being in love, or an act of aesthetic creation or a project =
that could imply a very modest activity but which allows you to =
re-examine your past, that is, to interrogate it and renew it. And I =
believe that we have very few occasions in our daily lives which are =
quite standardized and banalized to work in that direction. ! The work =
that we do implies usually a repetition, the accomplishment o f a given =
task. The type of mental functioning which I call "revolt" is something =
that we lack and it is very dangerous because if it is lacking, we risk =
confronting two prospective pitfalls: one of them is 'somatization' when =
the psychic space closes itself off and the conflict manifests itself as =
bodily illness or, in the other situation, we get into violence, =
vandalism and wars. So, Vive la R=E8volte !=20
Interview conducted by Nina Zivancevic, In Paris, March-April =
2001=20
=20
=20
>From: "Michael Eisenstadt" <michaele@HotPOP.com>=20
>Reply-To: austin-ghetto-list@pairlist.net=20
>To: <austin-ghetto-list@pairlist.net>=20
>Subject: Re: Win this lovely watch or left is right and right is left =
>Date: Wed, 19 May 2004 11:30:21 -0600=20
>=20
>Wayne wrote:=20
>=20
> > Oh. Go and find thyself a New Genre, Kristeva.=20
> > (One of Mike E. mostest favorite philosophers. Right, Mike?)=20
>=20
>just to prove that i am reading your inspired spritzes i must=20
>acknowledge that i know of and have read at least 2 pages=20
>by Julia Kristeva.=20
>=20
>she is a French intellectual from Eastern Yerp and writes=20
>unreadable literary criticism some of which has unfortunately=20
>been translated into English.=20
>=20
>are you a leftie or a rightie, Wayne? wondering whether yule=20
>be wearing the Chinese mickey mouse watch on your left=20
>wrist (if a rightie) or the right (if a leftie)=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
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<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>So, Jon, are you using the phrase "old =
hippie" in a=20
pejorative sense?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Some people, who were once "young =
hippies", had=20
some rather interesting experiences and made some rather intriguing=20
contributions to our culture, some good, some bad. Many actually=20
contributed a great deal to visual and poetic arts, music, intellectual =
culture=20
and, egad, computer programming.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Alas, I guess you mean aging erases all =
in America,=20
leaving all "good" things in the hands of.....others.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>wj</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>btw. Have you actually read =
anything Kristeva=20
has written?</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV=20
style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
<A title=3Djonmfordster@hotmail.com =
href=3D"mailto:jonmfordster@hotmail.com">Jon=20
Ford</A> </DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A=20
title=3Daustin-ghetto-list@pairlist.net=20
=
href=3D"mailto:austin-ghetto-list@pairlist.net">austin-ghetto-list@pairli=
st.net</A>=20
</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, May 19, 2004 =
6:24=20
PM</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re:Julia K.</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>
<P><BR><BR></P>
<DIV class=3DRTE>
<P>Michael-- sorry you didn't get past page two, but here is an =
interview with=20
Julia which might set you right. She sounds like an old hippie to =
me!</P>
<P>JON</P>
<P>
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<DIV align=3Dleft><FONT face=3DArial,Helvetica,sans-serif =
size=3D1>Julia=20
Kristeva is a world famous semiotician, feminist theorist, =
psychoanalyst=20
and at the same time an interesting creative writer. She was =
born in=20
Bulgaria in 1941, but came to Paris in 1965 where she became =
immersed in=20
Parisian intellectual life. Her acclaimed novel "Les Samou=EFs" =
(1990)=20
analyzes the Parisian intellectual avant-garde to which she has =
belonged=20
ever since. And though psychoanalysis remains one of the major =
orienting=20
and formative </FONT><FONT face=3DArial,Helvetica,sans-serif=20
size=3D1><BR><BR></FONT></DIV>
<DIV align=3Dleft>
<P><FONT face=3DVerdana,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif color=3Dgray =
size=3D5><B>An=20
Interview with Julia Kristeva</B></FONT> </P></DIV>
<DIV align=3Dleft>
<P><FONT face=3DArial,Helvetica,sans-serif size=3D1>by Nina=20
Zivancevici</FONT></P>
<P><FONT face=3DArial,Helvetica,sans-serif size=3D1>Parisian =
intellectual=20
avant-garde to which she has belonged ever since. And though=20
psychoanalysis remains one of the major orienting and formative=20
</FONT><FONT face=3DArial,Helvetica,sans-serif =
size=3D1>dimensions of her=20
work, especially as regards her reflections upon the nature of =
the=20
feminine, she has also continued her research on the nature of =
language=20
and examined the processes leading to the emergence of the work =
of art.=20
As the theorist John Lechte points out, " because of the =
intimate link=20
between art and the formation of subjectivity, Kristeva has =
always found=20
art to be a particularly fruitful basis for analysis. " Since =
the 1960s,=20
she has </FONT></P>
<P><FONT face=3DArial,Helvetica,sans-serif=20
size=3D1><BR></FONT></P></DIV></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><FONT =
size=3D5>
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<TR vAlign=3Dbottom align=3Dright>
<TD vAlign=3Dbottom align=3Dright width=3D150>
<DIV align=3Dright><FONT face=3DArial,Helvetica,sans-serif =
size=3D1><IMG=20
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<DIV align=3Dleft> =20
<P><FONT face=3DArial,Helvetica,sans-serif size=3D1>been a =
leading force in=20
the critique of representation and her most recent book is a =
critical=20
study of Colette's work and life, that is to say, one of the =
numerous=20
projects that she has been energetically working on. </FONT></P>
<P><FONT face=3DArial,Helvetica,sans-serif size=3D1>Q: When did =
you start=20
getting interested in the notion of the "feminine"? Was it with =
the=20
exploration of the notion of =D2chora=D3or the female voice in =
linguistics=20
and semiology? Or rather, from that point on how have you =
arrived at the=20
so-called feminist studies and writing understood in terms of =
their=20
sociological and/or aesthetic significance? </FONT></P>
<P><FONT face=3DArial,Helvetica,sans-serif size=3D1>J.Kristeva: =
It is very=20
difficult to trace back my interest in the "feminine". I suppose =
that at=20
the very moment in which I started asking questions about myself =
the=20
question of the =D2feminine=D3 had already been formulated in my =
mind, so=20
one could say perhaps it started in the period of my adolescence =
when I=20
became interested in literature which necessarily asks questions =
about=20
the sexual differences. But, you are right, in my theoretical =
work, this=20
question is raised in a more succinct manner, perhaps also more =
discreet=20
one, but which was nevertheless very intense</FONT></P>
<P><FONT face=3DArial,Helvetica,sans-serif size=3D1>It must be =
said that=20
this question is related to the notion of "chora" which directs =
us back=20
to the archaic state of language . This state is known to a =
child who is=20
in a state of osmosis with his/her mother during which language=20
manifests itself as co-lalia , a melodic alliteration that =
precedes the=20
introduction of signs within a syntactic order. The period =
during which=20
I started developing this notion was that of the writing of my =
Ph.D on=20
the avant-garde of the 19th century (Mallarm=E8 and =
Lautreeamont) and I=20
had understood how much of that, what we call hermiticism in =
literature,=20
is connected to the rehabilitation, more or less conscious, of =
that=20
archaic language. By the way, I was also at that time undergoing =
an=20
analysis myself, and so became convinced that what we have =
discussed was=20
really true. </FONT></P>
<P><FONT face=3DArial,Helvetica,sans-serif size=3D1>Q: Is it =
difficult to=20
"abandon" or at least to set aside one's mother tongue and write =
in=20
another language ?</FONT></P>
<P><FONT face=3DArial,Helvetica,sans-serif size=3D1>Kristeva: =
No, I haven't=20
had the impression that I had abandoned my mother tongue by =
coming to=20
France because I had learnt French when I was four or five and =
had been=20
bilingual. It is true though that the transition from one mother =
tongue=20
to the other is a real matricide particularly when one ends up=20
expressing himself only in this second language and one=D5s =
rapport to the=20
first one remains extremely limited, which is my case, but it =
didn=D5t=20
happen with me in that era (of coming to France). It was quite a =
gradual=20
change. </FONT></P>
<P><FONT face=3DArial,Helvetica,sans-serif size=3D1>Q: Given the =
fact that=20
you have written a lot about the importance of the so-called =
"sick"=20
states of mind, could you tell us whether they are related in =
any way to=20
Art ? Would you see Art as the means of healing them or do you =
see it as=20
an independent entity? Is Art a sort of "love" for you (the way =
Freud=20
would have it) and a sort of human cure? </FONT></P>
<P><FONT face=3DArial,Helvetica,sans-serif size=3D1>Kristeva: It =
has always=20
shocked commentators when I affirm my agreement with the ancient =
Greeks=20
who viewed art as catharsis or purification and I would add that =
it is a=20
sort of sublimation for the "borderline" states, in the broadest =
sense=20
of the term, that is, it comprises those characterized by =
fragility. If=20
we analyze contemporary art, we get the impression that two =
types of=20
fragility are examined by contemporary artists. On one hand, we =
have=20
perversion, that is, all sorts of sexual transgressions. To this =
effect,=20
it is enough to just browse through contemporary books or simply =
look at=20
the "culture" pages of "Lib=E8ration" which review exhibitions =
to see that=20
the form and the content of the experience serve as means of =
overcoming=20
these states. They testify to the existence of these states, as =
well as=20
that of a certain desire to make them public, or even share them =
with=20
others, that is, to take them out of their closet which is! a =
soothing=20
action after all despite its commercial aspect since one turns a =
"shameful thing" into something positive. So you see, here we =
have=20
something that transcends the notion of "cure" and is at times =
something=20
gratifying. </FONT></P>
<P><FONT face=3DArial,Helvetica,sans-serif size=3D1>Q: Does =
contemporary art=20
have to do with Voyeurism, as is the case with the most recent=20
literature nowadays which purports to describe the most intimate =
states=20
of the body and the soul ? </FONT></P>
<P><FONT face=3DArial,Helvetica,sans-serif size=3D1>Kristeva: =
Absolutely!=20
This is ever the case with literature and when it does not try =
to treat=20
perversion, it is deals with psychotic states, that is, the =
states of=20
identity loss, the loss of language, the borderline cases which =
cohabit=20
and coexist with delirium and violence, but all of this does not =
have to=20
bear the imprint of something negative. Some think that these =
works are=20
scandal-oriented, others think that they rejoice in ugliness , =
yes,=20
certainly there are elements of such orientations in them, but, =
on the=20
other hand, the existence of these works is also a research -- =
often in=20
a very specific manner -- on the anticipation of difficulty of =
living.=20
And Art can play an important role here since it can contribute =
to a=20
certain creative assumption of such a difficulty. Nevertheless, =
I=20
personally remain a bit skeptical of a certain drift or tendency =
of=20
contemporary art to content itself with such, so I believe, =
feeble=20
appropri! ations of these traumatic states. We remain here at =
the level=20
of the statement of the clinical cases with an almost =
documentary style=20
photography of these cases wherein the investment and the effort =
made in=20
the exploration of new forms or new thoughts remains less =
visible. So,=20
it is something regrettable which every so often leaves me with =
the=20
impression that when I visit museums or read certain art books, =
I am=20
looking into psychoanalytic or even psychiatric archives. But, =
perhaps=20
this is an indispensable experience. </FONT></P>
<P><FONT face=3DArial,Helvetica,sans-serif size=3D1>Q: But you =
haven't=20
always felt this way- we remember the time when you wrote about =
Bellini=C9=20
</FONT></P>
<P><FONT face=3DArial,Helvetica,sans-serif size=3D1>Kristeva: =
That's right,=20
I haven't always felt this way -- this is a very particular =
moment in=20
art history which deepened and probed a certain aspect of a =
widespread=20
existential malaise and discontent while neglecting the =
possibility of=20
its overcoming. </FONT></P>
<P><FONT face=3DArial,Helvetica,sans-serif size=3D1>Q: Well, =
along this=20
line, you wrote in "Tales of Love" that "the psychoanalytic =
couch is the=20
only place where the social contract authorizes explicitly=20
psychoanalytic investigation, but "leaves Love out of it." =
However, we=20
find this type of investigation in literature and art as well. =
You have=20
recently analyzed the "investigation" of the writer Colette =
whose work=20
deals extensively with love and emotions. Why Colette ? =
</FONT></P>
<P><FONT face=3DArial,Helvetica,sans-serif size=3D1>Kristeva: =
Why Colette?=20
Because in my trilogy on the feminine genius I tried to analyze =
the=20
works of two dramatic women who represent the tragic aspect of =
our=20
(20th) century, Hanna Arendt's on "Totalitarianism" and Melanie =
Klein's=20
on psychosis, especially children's psychosis, and it seemed to =
me=20
important (not only to me personally but also for the sake of=20
objectivity) to pay homage to the other aspect of our =
civilization which=20
is notably our century's source of joy, that is, the feminist =
liberation=20
and "joie de vivre". And Colette excels in that appropriation of =
the=20
national language in which she delights and leads to paroxysms =
of beauty=20
that trace a path which goes beyond the scandal of a woman who =
asserts=20
her liberty and authority. So, for me, she has become =
indispensable.=20
</FONT></P>
<P><FONT face=3DArial,Helvetica,sans-serif size=3D1>Q: In your =
novel "Les=20
Samoura=95s" you have shown a great literary talent and a =
certain sense of=20
humor which is certainly lacking in your analytic work. Why have =
you=20
stopped your literary production, that is to say, writing of =
novels ?=20
</FONT></P>
<P><FONT face=3DArial,Helvetica,sans-serif size=3D1>Kristeva: =
Oh, I haven't=20
stopped it for after "Les Samoura=95s" I wrote "The old man the =
wolves,"=20
then "Possesions," and now I am going to write yet another =
thriller=20
which will be called, as it seems now, "Our Byzantium". I=D5d =
like to=20
continue writing in this polar style and with a certain =
political=20
motivation. It will be concerned with the possibility -- or the=20
impossibility -- of unifying Eastern Europe with Western Europe. =
It will=20
deal with the Crusades and in it the modern characters would =
reveal=20
their ancestors who had been in the Crusades, a catastrophic =
enterprise=20
which eventually failed as you know, but which has been in its =
essence=20
an attempt at unifying Europe, an unhappy attempt though. So, I =
am going=20
to ask a question about the tragedy of this Europe which is now =
divided,=20
and also this would be a way for me to visit my orthodox origins =
where=20
I'd also attempt to revive some of my childhood souvenirs. =
</FONT></P>
<P><FONT face=3DArial,Helvetica,sans-serif size=3D1>Q: That's =
right, the=20
area of Eastern or Central Europe really belongs to "Byzantium". =
</FONT></P>
<P><FONT face=3DArial,Helvetica,sans-serif size=3D1>Kristeva: =
Yes, we are=20
Byzantium, that is, the Balkans, and I am very proud of the fact =
that I=20
come from that region. And that's something which is unknown to =
the=20
West. While it is true that what has survived of Byzantium is in =
a state=20
of cultural decadence and terrible economic poverty with nothing =
in it=20
that could seduce the Westerners, it is indisputably the =
treasure of our=20
rich historical memory that is reflected, as far as I can see, =
in the=20
dignified sensitivity of people who don=D5t ask for anything but =
the=20
minimum allowing them to continue living as the well-educated =
and highly=20
intelligent men and women who should be less exposed to mentally =
exhausting pangs of melancholy and the socially debilitating =
impact of=20
the economic predominance of the mafia that is the case =
nowadays.=20
</FONT></P>
<P><FONT face=3DArial,Helvetica,sans-serif size=3D1>Q: In your =
novel=20
"Possesions" you started something quite interesting, something =
that you=20
stopped pursuing after having written the first chapter though, =
and that=20
particular thing is the psychoanalysis of art which also =
includes that=20
of the artists and their respective works. Would it be possible =
to=20
pursue research in this particular field, namely, an analysis of =
the=20
history of art by following different works of art from =
different=20
epochs? </FONT></P>
<P><FONT face=3DArial,Helvetica,sans-serif size=3D1>Kristeva: I =
have really=20
enjoyed myself writing about these different works of art, =
notably, on=20
representations of decapitation, and I believe that the novel as =
genre,=20
especially thriller which is an open genre and completely =
renewable=20
allows for this type of digression in writing. But they have =
severely=20
criticized me for it and told me that the book was too =
intellectual,=20
very brainy and that the reader who wanted to know how the crime =
was=20
being developed and the murder had to suffer by having had to =
wait. That=20
was the malevolent reaction of those who have known me as an=20
intellectual and who did not like the fact that I was going to =
write=20
novels. So, there is a certain tendency in France, or perhaps =
elsewhere=20
too, to put labels on people- if you are a teacher, remain a =
teacher,=20
and if you are a writer, remain a writer, but the two of them at =
the=20
same time- that you cannot be! So, perhaps I will continue in =
that=20
direction , that ! of novel writing, I don't know. I have just =
finished=20
the book about Colette, and my new thriller is still in notes =
and=20
scratches, it is not articulated yet, but I am not sure that the =
fragments which deal with the so-called esthetic problems are =
excluded=20
from it. It is true we cannot insert a dissertation in a novel, =
but=20
perhaps we could set a basis there for it. </FONT></P>
<P><FONT face=3DArial,Helvetica,sans-serif size=3D1>Q: I believe =
that one=20
could read your book "The Intimate Revolt" in the light of your =
dialogue=20
with Hannah Arendt. In fact, she was the one who has spoken of =
the=20
misery of human beings who are not allowed to have =
"contemplative" (=20
read creative) life and who are thus condemned to lead an =
"active" life,=20
that is, to have a miserable job. Is it the problem of our times =
that=20
there exist such individuals who revolt against the fact that =
they=20
cannot realize themselves? That is, who are angst-ridden and end =
up=20
revolting against themselves? </FONT></P>
<P><FONT face=3DArial,Helvetica,sans-serif size=3D1>Kristeva: I =
believe that=20
you were right to make such assumptions about my eventual =
dialogue with=20
Hannah Arendt -- I have been reading her work for quite a while =
and I'd=20
say, in all modesty, that a lot of my writing, consciously or=20
unconsciously, is tied to her thought . The idea of "revolt" was =
an=20
effort to put myself in relationship with what we hear as "her =
own=20
thinking" which, following Heidegger's, opposes and relativizes=20
calculative reasoning. As she was very attentive to the work of=20
Heidegger, she conceived of thinking as an inquiry, as an =
interrogatory=20
process and opposed herself to the calculative framework which=20
structures and characterizes contemporary behavior. My work has =
found=20
itself a bit within this horizon but I also derived my =
experience from=20
the psychoanalytical approach which relativizes everyone's =
identity as=20
well as his/her past. Moreover, I derived my experience from =
literary=20
works, such as Proust's "Reche! rche de temps perdu;" for =
instance, from=20
his flexing of language, metaphors and the syntax. I tried to =
rethink=20
the mental disposition which helps us carry on, the one which is =
not a=20
mere repetition of a cliche, something which is like an act of =
rebirth,=20
that is, rebirth which our thinking re-examines together with =
our=20
interior life as well as the very opening of the inquiry. This =
is what I=20
take "revolt" to be. So, it is neither an expression of simple=20
existential anguish nor contesting a socio-political order, but=20
re-establishment of things which we start again. And, in this =
sense,=20
revolt which engulfs the psychic space is a form of life, be it =
the=20
state of being in love, or an act of aesthetic creation or a =
project=20
that could imply a very modest activity but which allows you to=20
re-examine your past, that is, to interrogate it and renew it. =
And I=20
believe that we have very few occasions in our daily lives which =
are=20
quite standardized and banalized to work in that direction. ! =
The work=20
that we do implies usually a repetition, the accomplishment o f =
a given=20
task. The type of mental functioning which I call "revolt" is =
something=20
that we lack and it is very dangerous because if it is lacking, =
we risk=20
confronting two prospective pitfalls: one of them is =
'somatization' when=20
the psychic space closes itself off and the conflict manifests =
itself as=20
bodily illness or, in the other situation, we get into violence, =
vandalism and wars. So, Vive la R=E8volte ! </FONT></P>
<P><FONT face=3DArial,Helvetica,sans-serif size=3D1>Interview =
conducted by=20
Nina Zivancevic, In Paris, March-April 2001</FONT> </P>
<P> </P></DIV></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></P>
<P><BR><BR> </P></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>From: "Michael Eisenstadt" <michaele@HotPOP.com>=20
<DIV></DIV>>Reply-To: austin-ghetto-list@pairlist.net=20
<DIV></DIV>>To: <austin-ghetto-list@pairlist.net>=20
<DIV></DIV>>Subject: Re: Win this lovely watch or left is right and =
right=20
is left=20
<DIV></DIV>>Date: Wed, 19 May 2004 11:30:21 -0600=20
<DIV></DIV>>=20
<DIV></DIV>>Wayne wrote:=20
<DIV></DIV>>=20
<DIV></DIV>> > Oh. Go and find thyself a New Genre, =
Kristeva.=20
<DIV></DIV>> > (One of Mike E. mostest favorite=20
philosophers. Right, Mike?)=20
<DIV></DIV>>=20
<DIV></DIV>>just to prove that i am reading your inspired spritzes =
i must=20
<DIV></DIV>>acknowledge that i know of and have read at least 2 =
pages=20
<DIV></DIV>>by Julia Kristeva.=20
<DIV></DIV>>=20
<DIV></DIV>>she is a French intellectual from Eastern Yerp and =
writes=20
<DIV></DIV>>unreadable literary criticism some of which has =
unfortunately=20
<DIV></DIV>>been translated into English.=20
<DIV></DIV>>=20
<DIV></DIV>>are you a leftie or a rightie, Wayne? wondering whether =
yule=20
<DIV></DIV>>be wearing the Chinese mickey mouse watch on your left=20
<DIV></DIV>>wrist (if a rightie) or the right (if a leftie)=20
<DIV></DIV>>=20
<DIV></DIV>>=20
<DIV></DIV>>=20
<DIV></DIV></DIV><BR clear=3Dall>
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<A href=3D"http://g.msn.com/8HMBENUS/2731??PS=3D47575">MSN Toolbar =
provides=20
one-click access to Hotmail from any Web page =96 FREE download!</A>=20
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