surprise! god is in each of us...
Wayne Johnson
austin-ghetto-list@pairlist.net
Mon Mar 29 08:06:10 2004
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My problem is that most of my early Church experience was filled with =
horrid white anglo saxon protestant hypocricy and utter dismissal of =
other religions whilst insisting that Jesus should be the half back on =
your football team. This drivel would stun a ground hog for its =
imbecility but seemed to go over big in Georgetown in the Fifties. The =
single person of deep religious faith that I knew personally and =
respected was Rev. Heinsohn of the University Methodist Church on the =
Drag. I worked there as a night-time custodian whilst a student at UT. =
He was a gentleman, a true Biblical scholar and his sermons were absent =
of cliche or dumb harangues. By any measure, a great person and a =
credit to our species.
wj
----- Original Message -----=20
From: Frances Morey=20
To: austin-ghetto-list@pairlist.net=20
Sent: Sunday, March 28, 2004 7:54 PM
Subject: Re: surprise! god is in each of us...
Wayne,
These incidences of kindness are multiplied thousands of times as =
church members all over are moved to help their fellow humans. I've seen =
it in action and even experienced some of it myself in my darkest =
moments. The church is the Other place, away from home and the husstle =
'n' bustle of the marketplace, where people can be quite and =
contemplative in humility, surrounded by peace and quiet or ethereal =
music, and participating in the familiar and predictable process of the =
liturgy, if a Mass, or listening to preachments alternating with the =
singing of hymns, if they happen to be protestant. I always prefered the =
Catholic practice of keeping the whole service to an hour, homily and =
all. That is merely the excuse for being together, though. Perhaps god =
is really the human matrix in which we immerse ourselves and the =
churches are places we are able to find other humans who are capable and =
willing to express good will--I believe that is so, anyway. My church =
experiences have been as described and if not I certainly let them hear =
about it. But that's another story.
Frances=20
Wayne Johnson <cadaobh@shentel.net> wrote:
I just found out yesterday that a very dear friend of our in Reston =
has
contract ALS and it has already progessed to the point where he can =
barely
brush his teeth and can't clothe himself. He and his wife had joined =
a
local Unitarian church a couple of years ago and these good people =
have
taken it upon themselves to provide a world of kindness, gentleness, =
love
and direct physical and emotional assistance to him and his wife. =
This
includes visits, shopping trips with and without him, food =
deliveries and
compansionship.
To my old timey way of thinking, this is what "churches" used to do: =
love
people and be supportive of those in need. Every so often it is good =
(for me
in particular) to be reminded that there are those who actually =
practice
what their religion suggests is "Christian" behavior. Of course, the
Unitarians aren't exactly boil! er-plate, orthodox, Holey-Rollers. I =
believe
Ben Franklin was a Unitarian and possibly G. Washington as well. Not
exactly Bible thumpers. Many of these congregations accept neo-pagan
beliefs without rancor. (Oddly, the only other church I have found =
with
similar sentiments was a (Scottish) Episcopal church in Campbell, =
CA.
Campbell being vurrry Scottish as a person and a clan.
Anyway. Have to say sometimes the sysems works and works to the =
benefit of
some who really, really deserve it.
wj
----- Original Message -----=20
From: "Pepi Plowman"=20
To:=20
Sent: Saturday, March 27, 2004 9:45 PM
Subject: RE: let's not do nuance
> Wayne, Judy, Tele,
>
> I'm with you all the way on the first part. God, what
> God? Which God? But allow me to elaborate further,
> below...
> --- telebob wrote:
> > Wayne-
> >
> >! ; I think as you do, and thank you for reminding us
> > that most priests and
> > factotems are basically criminals who spread
> > cultural myths
>
> totally. Myths that preceded that particular religion
> which the priests and factotems accepted as truth and
> preached, or myths that were flagrantly made up to
> suit a cultural bias in order to bring more ignorant
> humans to the "fold".
>
> (all the better
> > if they believe what they preach, it makes it easier
> > for them to sleep)in
> > order to retain and extend personal and
> > institutional power. This is not to
> > say that there are no benefits, since those common
> > mythyologies help to
> > create a 'public order' no matter what the standard.
> > Are religious
> > societies 'better' than secular societies?
>
> Fuck, no!
>
> How do
> > ! we measure? These are
> > topics worthy of millions of tomes, and indeed you
> > know they are out there
> > discussing this shit still, like a bunch of
> > sophomores who have just
> > dicovered 'philosophy'.
>
> How dare they abuse us by discussing them?! State and
> religion should not mix, Point!
> >
> > But my dad, who was a doctor, was in a
> > 'philosophical' mood one night, a
> > little in his cups, and he related. "I watch people
> > die and people born
> > every day as a part of my job, and all I can say is,
> > 'Where does the flame
> > go when it goes out?' Does the flame have a soul?"
>
> So, did he ever answer his question, or did he just
> ask?
>
> > He was not a religious
> > man, though he tried to keep up appearances. On the
> > other hand, he was
> > 'moral' person w! ho enjoyed overpaying his taxes and
> > never breaking a traffic
> > law.
> >
> > So when we are approached by 'holy men' of any
> > stripe, know you are being
> > approached by the powers of darkness.
>
> Do you really believe there is a Big Boogyman out
> there?!
>
> This includes
> > rabbis, priests,
> > mullahs, and most medicine men. I put my faith in
> > the scientific method and
> > its self correcting process.
> >
>
> Man, I'd hate to be on the back end of a "self
> correcting process" inflicted on me by a source
> outside myself (like doctors and lawyers and
> policemen) when I had resources available to me that
> enabled me to kick metaphorical butt if I were to
> employ them.
>
> > What do we have to look forward to? The peace of
> > the grave.
>
> I'm sure it is! a relief!
>
> Heaven is here
> > on earth, make the best of it. People who identify
> > with their 'religions'
> > are essentially deciding which 'team' they want to
> > play on. Imagine it as
> > though all religions are just sports teams, and you
> > are free to join or not.
> > But if you put on the uniform, then you have to play
> > for your side, and you
> > have to follow the coach and the quarterback's rules
> > or get thrown out for
> > being a 'bad sport.'
> >
> You've got to admit, it's better to play on a team in
> which you like all the participants--it's hard to work
> together, otherwise. We Ghettoans (and I include
> myself therein reservedly, though I hung out in the
> Ghetto) may not comprise a religion, but we're
> certainly a group of human beings gathering together
> to speak as/what they will. So! mething Quakers
> did--the only "religion" that I might ever have
> considered joining.
>
> I like to think of religions as all saying essentially
> the same thing, therefore I don't have to belong to
> any one of them. As for god(s), I doubt the existence
> of a "personal god" who counts the hairs on my head or
> the sands in the ocean. Gods are created by man in
> their likeness. Beyond perhaps an intrinsic
> knowingness on a nanochronic level, the biological
> internet.
>
> > Religion and those who follow it are just like Roger
> > says, tribal apes.
>
> I don't follow religion, except to avoid it. On the
> other hand, I like to know all about it.
>
> God
> > bless Thorsten Veblen and Madalyn Murray O'Hair.
> >
> I worked for her back in the seventies as circulation
> director for American Atheist. She fired me I think
> beca! use she suspected I was a Christian. I liked to
> hang out in the library.
>
> pep
>
> > telegnostic
>
> p.s. the "gnostic" says it all--you know you don't
> know, right?
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: austin-ghetto-list-admin@pairlist.net
> > [mailto:austin-ghetto-list-admin@pairlist.net]On
> > Behalf Of Wayne Johnson
> > Sent: Saturday, March 27, 2004 5:20 PM
> > To: austin-ghetto-list@pairlist.net
> > Subject: Re: let's not do nuance
> >
> >
> > Oh, I wish I didn't feel compelled to write this. I
> > know, just know, that I
> > will surely regret it. But I just can't find any
> > sane and
> > non-Transcendental argument for the existence of a
> > "soul". I really,
> > really wish it were true and that we could all come
> > back again, but my
> > b! elief is that when the "biological" light goes
> > out...it stays out. Finito!
> > No mas!
> >
> > From my perspective, we have some tens of thousands
> > of years of "wishful"
> > thinking aided and abetted by a bunch of
> > semi-literate, semi-criminals who
> > wish to profit by spreading mystical and irrational
> > beliefs. Did Arthur go
> > to Avalon? Probably not, as much as I would like it
> > to be so. Ain't going
> > to see him again. Nor any other person what has
> > kicked the "biological"
> > bucket. Doornails is doornails and when you is
> > gone, you is over.
> >
> > So. What do I have to look forward to? Not a damn
> > thing. Is that
> > existential or what?
> >
> > Cheers until then...."Happy Trails to You, until we
> > meet again".
> >
> > wj
> >!=20
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Pepi Plowman"=20
> > To:=20
> > Sent: Saturday, March 27, 2004 5:32 PM
> > Subject: Re: let's try to do nuance
> >
> >
> > >
> > > --- Michael Eisenstadt=20
> > wrote:
> > > > Pepi,
> > > >
> > > > Thanks for writing at length about this.
> > > >
> > > > No, I don't speak it.
> > > >
> > > > In Hebrew school (to prepare for confirmation at
> > 13
> > > > for the sake of my religious grandmother who
> > would
> > > > have had a fit if I wasn't confirmed), we used
> > to
> > > > say
> > > > Baruch ator, I don't know anymore.
> > > >
> > > > Baruch ator are th! e first 2 words of all the
> > > > prayers.
> > > > Actually we worked our way through quite a bit
> > of
> > > > Genesis reading it in the original which was my
> > > > original
> > > > introduction to the ENORMOUS charm of reading a
> > > > foreign language.When I slowly worked my way
> > through
> > > >
> > > > one of the books of the Iliad in the original
> > many
> > > > years
> > > > later, I thought back to Miss Snow with the
> > enormous
> > > >
> > > > boobs driving us like Gadarene swine through the
> > > > beginning
> > > > of the bible.
> > >
> > > Amusing visuals here!
> > >
> > > >
> > > > As for your and your sisters' previous lives,
> > that
> >! ; > > sounds
> > > > like hard work.
> > >
> > > Seems like it always is.
> > >
> > > >
> > > > Let me get this straight: the jews burnt in the
> > > > ovens
> > > > came back as the Plowman sisters (or some of the
> > > > Plowman sisters); the Nazis who died came back
> > as
> > > > Israelis.
> > > >
> > > > I still come back to this simple question: if
> > you
> > > > and your
> > > > sisters love all people all that much, how do
> > you
> > > > come
> > > > to the conclusion that the Israelis are reborn
> > > > Nazis?
> > >
> > > A few Israelis, perhaps. Certainly, not all.
> > This is
> > > merely supposition, in any case, as we both know.
> > But> > > I would say by observing the ones who manifest a
> > > similar persona with a similar agenda (except for
> > the
> > > reversal of the victims), however you would
> > describe a
> > > Nazi. Sharon, perhaps? Hey, for all we know,
> > Arafat
> > > may have been a Jew in his past lifetime!
> > > >
> > >
> > > > You write:
> > > >
> > > > > But may you not hate too much, it's bad for
> > the
> > > > soul
> > > > > (I know, you don't believe in its existence.
> > Oh,
> > > > > well, so be it).
> >
> =3D=3D=3D message truncated =3D=3D=3D
>
>
>
> __________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Finance Tax Center - File online. File on time.
> http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html
>
>
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<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>My problem is that most of my early =
Church=20
experience was filled with horrid white anglo saxon protestant hypocricy =
and=20
utter dismissal of other religions whilst insisting that Jesus should be =
the=20
half back on your football team. This drivel would stun a ground =
hog for=20
its imbecility but seemed to go over big in Georgetown in the =
Fifties. The=20
single person of deep religious faith that I knew personally and =
respected was=20
Rev. Heinsohn of the University Methodist Church on the Drag. I worked =
there as=20
a night-time custodian whilst a student at UT. He was a gentleman, =
a true=20
Biblical scholar and his sermons were absent of cliche or dumb =
harangues. =20
By any measure, a great person and a credit to our species.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>wj</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV=20
style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
<A title=3Dfrances_morey@yahoo.com =
href=3D"mailto:frances_morey@yahoo.com">Frances=20
Morey</A> </DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A=20
title=3Daustin-ghetto-list@pairlist.net=20
=
href=3D"mailto:austin-ghetto-list@pairlist.net">austin-ghetto-list@pairli=
st.net</A>=20
</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Sunday, March 28, 2004 =
7:54=20
PM</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: surprise! god is =
in each of=20
us...</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>Wayne,</DIV>
<DIV>These incidences of kindness are multiplied thousands of times as =
church=20
members all over are moved to help their fellow humans. I've seen it =
in action=20
and even experienced some of it myself in my darkest moments. The =
church is=20
the Other place, away from home and the husstle 'n' bustle of the =
marketplace, where people can be quite and contemplative =
in humility,=20
surrounded by peace and quiet or ethereal music, and =
participating=20
in the familiar and predictable process of the liturgy, if a =
Mass, or=20
listening to preachments alternating with the singing of =
hymns, if=20
they happen to be protestant. I always prefered the Catholic practice =
of=20
keeping the whole service to an hour, homily and all. That =
is merely=20
the excuse for being together, though. Perhaps god is really the =
human=20
matrix in which we immerse ourselves and the churches are places we =
are able=20
to find other humans who are capable and willing to express good=20
will--I believe that is so, anyway. My church =
experiences have=20
been as described and if not I certainly let them=20
hear about it. But that's another story.</DIV>
<DIV>Frances <BR><BR><B><I>Wayne Johnson=20
<cadaobh@shentel.net></I></B> wrote:</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE class=3Dreplbq=20
style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #1010ff 2px =
solid">I=20
just found out yesterday that a very dear friend of our in Reston=20
has<BR>contract ALS and it has already progessed to the point where =
he can=20
barely<BR>brush his teeth and can't clothe himself. He and his wife =
had=20
joined a<BR>local Unitarian church a couple of years ago and these =
good=20
people have<BR>taken it upon themselves to provide a world of =
kindness,=20
gentleness, love<BR>and direct physical and emotional assistance to =
him and=20
his wife. This<BR>includes visits, shopping trips with and without =
him, food=20
deliveries and<BR>compansionship.<BR><BR>To my old timey way of =
thinking,=20
this is what "churches" used to do: love<BR>people and be supportive =
of=20
those in need. Every so often it is good (for me<BR>in particular) =
to be=20
reminded that there are those who actually practice<BR>what their =
religion=20
suggests is "Christian" behavior. Of course, the<BR>Unitarians =
aren't=20
exactly boil! er-plate, orthodox, Holey-Rollers. I believe<BR>Ben =
Franklin=20
was a Unitarian and possibly G. Washington as well. Not<BR>exactly =
Bible=20
thumpers. Many of these congregations accept neo-pagan<BR>beliefs =
without=20
rancor. (Oddly, the only other church I have found with<BR>similar=20
sentiments was a (Scottish) Episcopal church in Campbell, =
CA.<BR>Campbell=20
being vurrry Scottish as a person and a clan.<BR><BR>Anyway. Have to =
say=20
sometimes the sysems works and works to the benefit of<BR>some who =
really,=20
really deserve it.<BR><BR>wj<BR>----- Original Message ----- =
<BR>From: "Pepi=20
Plowman" <PEPSTOIL@YAHOO.COM><BR>To:=20
<AUSTIN-GHETTO-LIST@PAIRLIST.NET><BR>Sent: Saturday, March 27, 2004 =
9:45=20
PM<BR>Subject: RE: let's not do nuance<BR><BR><BR>> Wayne, Judy,=20
Tele,<BR>><BR>> I'm with you all the way on the first part. =
God,=20
what<BR>> God? Which God? But allow me to elaborate =
further,<BR>>=20
below...<BR>> --- telebob <TELEBOB@SBCGLOBAL.NET>wrote:<BR>> =
>=20
Wayne-<BR>> ><BR>> >! ; I think as you do, and thank you =
for=20
reminding us<BR>> > that most priests and<BR>> > =
factotems are=20
basically criminals who spread<BR>> > cultural =
myths<BR>><BR>>=20
totally. Myths that preceded that particular religion<BR>> which =
the=20
priests and factotems accepted as truth and<BR>> preached, or =
myths that=20
were flagrantly made up to<BR>> suit a cultural bias in order to =
bring=20
more ignorant<BR>> humans to the "fold".<BR>><BR>> (all the =
better<BR>> > if they believe what they preach, it makes it=20
easier<BR>> > for them to sleep)in<BR>> > order to =
retain and=20
extend personal and<BR>> > institutional power. This is not =
to<BR>>=20
> say that there are no benefits, since those common<BR>> > =
mythyologies help to<BR>> > create a 'public order' no matter =
what the=20
standard.<BR>> > Are religious<BR>> > societies 'better' =
than=20
secular societies?<BR>><BR>> Fuck, no!<BR>><BR>> How =
do<BR>>=20
> ! we measure? These are<BR>> > topics worthy of millions =
of=20
tomes, and indeed you<BR>> > know they are out there<BR>> =
>=20
discussing this shit still, like a bunch of<BR>> > sophomores =
who have=20
just<BR>> > dicovered 'philosophy'.<BR>><BR>> How dare =
they=20
abuse us by discussing them?! State and<BR>> religion should not =
mix,=20
Point!<BR>> ><BR>> > But my dad, who was a doctor, was =
in=20
a<BR>> > 'philosophical' mood one night, a<BR>> > little =
in his=20
cups, and he related. "I watch people<BR>> > die and people=20
born<BR>> > every day as a part of my job, and all I can say=20
is,<BR>> > 'Where does the flame<BR>> > go when it goes =
out?'=20
Does the flame have a soul?"<BR>><BR>> So, did he ever answer =
his=20
question, or did he just<BR>> ask?<BR>><BR>> > He was =
not a=20
religious<BR>> > man, though he tried to keep up appearances. =
On=20
the<BR>> > other hand, he was<BR>> > 'moral' person w! =
ho=20
enjoyed overpaying his taxes and<BR>> > never breaking a=20
traffic<BR>> > law.<BR>> ><BR>> > So when we are=20
approached by 'holy men' of any<BR>> > stripe, know you are=20
being<BR>> > approached by the powers of =
darkness.<BR>><BR>> Do=20
you really believe there is a Big Boogyman out<BR>>=20
there?!<BR>><BR>> This includes<BR>> > rabbis, =
priests,<BR>>=20
> mullahs, and most medicine men. I put my faith in<BR>> > =
the=20
scientific method and<BR>> > its self correcting =
process.<BR>>=20
><BR>><BR>> Man, I'd hate to be on the back end of a =
"self<BR>>=20
correcting process" inflicted on me by a source<BR>> outside =
myself (like=20
doctors and lawyers and<BR>> policemen) when I had resources =
available to=20
me that<BR>> enabled me to kick metaphorical butt if I were =
to<BR>>=20
employ them.<BR>><BR>> > What do we have to look forward =
to? The=20
peace of<BR>> > the grave.<BR>><BR>> I'm sure it is! a=20
relief!<BR>><BR>> Heaven is here<BR>> > on earth, make =
the best=20
of it. People who identify<BR>> > with their =
'religions'<BR>> >=20
are essentially deciding which 'team' they want to<BR>> > play =
on.=20
Imagine it as<BR>> > though all religions are just sports =
teams, and=20
you<BR>> > are free to join or not.<BR>> > But if you =
put on the=20
uniform, then you have to play<BR>> > for your side, and =
you<BR>>=20
> have to follow the coach and the quarterback's rules<BR>> =
> or=20
get thrown out for<BR>> > being a 'bad sport.'<BR>> =
><BR>>=20
You've got to admit, it's better to play on a team in<BR>> which =
you like=20
all the participants--it's hard to work<BR>> together, otherwise. =
We=20
Ghettoans (and I include<BR>> myself therein reservedly, though I =
hung=20
out in the<BR>> Ghetto) may not comprise a religion, but =
we're<BR>>=20
certainly a group of human beings gathering together<BR>> to =
speak=20
as/what they will. So! mething Quakers<BR>> did--the only =
"religion" that=20
I might ever have<BR>> considered joining.<BR>><BR>> I like =
to=20
think of religions as all saying essentially<BR>> the same thing, =
therefore I don't have to belong to<BR>> any one of them. As for =
god(s),=20
I doubt the existence<BR>> of a "personal god" who counts the =
hairs on my=20
head or<BR>> the sands in the ocean. Gods are created by man =
in<BR>>=20
their likeness. Beyond perhaps an intrinsic<BR>> knowingness on a =
nanochronic level, the biological<BR>> internet.<BR>><BR>> =
>=20
Religion and those who follow it are just like Roger<BR>> > =
says,=20
tribal apes.<BR>><BR>> I don't follow religion, except to =
avoid it. On=20
the<BR>> other hand, I like to know all about it.<BR>><BR>> =
God<BR>> > bless Thorsten Veblen and Madalyn Murray =
O'Hair.<BR>>=20
><BR>> I worked for her back in the seventies as =
circulation<BR>>=20
director for American Atheist. She fired me I think<BR>> beca! =
use she=20
suspected I was a Christian. I liked to<BR>> hang out in the=20
library.<BR>><BR>> pep<BR>><BR>> >=20
telegnostic<BR>><BR>> p.s. the "gnostic" says it all--you know =
you=20
don't<BR>> know, right?<BR>> ><BR>> > -----Original=20
Message-----<BR>> > From:=20
austin-ghetto-list-admin@pairlist.net<BR>> >=20
[mailto:austin-ghetto-list-admin@pairlist.net]On<BR>> > Behalf =
Of=20
Wayne Johnson<BR>> > Sent: Saturday, March 27, 2004 5:20 =
PM<BR>>=20
> To: austin-ghetto-list@pairlist.net<BR>> > Subject: Re: =
let's not=20
do nuance<BR>> ><BR>> ><BR>> > Oh, I wish I didn't =
feel=20
compelled to write this. I<BR>> > know, just know, that =
I<BR>> >=20
will surely regret it. But I just can't find any<BR>> > sane=20
and<BR>> > non-Transcendental argument for the existence of =
a<BR>>=20
> "soul". I really,<BR>> > really wish it were true and =
that we=20
could all come<BR>> > back again, but my<BR>> > b! elief =
is that=20
when the "biological" light goes<BR>> > out...it stays out.=20
Finito!<BR>> > No mas!<BR>> ><BR>> > From my =
perspective,=20
we have some tens of thousands<BR>> > of years of =
"wishful"<BR>>=20
> thinking aided and abetted by a bunch of<BR>> > =
semi-literate,=20
semi-criminals who<BR>> > wish to profit by spreading mystical =
and=20
irrational<BR>> > beliefs. Did Arthur go<BR>> > to =
Avalon?=20
Probably not, as much as I would like it<BR>> > to be so. =
Ain't=20
going<BR>> > to see him again. Nor any other person what =
has<BR>>=20
> kicked the "biological"<BR>> > bucket. Doornails is =
doornails and=20
when you is<BR>> > gone, you is over.<BR>> ><BR>> =
> So.=20
What do I have to look forward to? Not a damn<BR>> > thing. Is =
that<BR>> > existential or what?<BR>> ><BR>> > =
Cheers=20
until then...."Happy Trails to You, until we<BR>> > meet=20
again".<BR>> ><BR>> > wj<BR>> >! <BR>> > =
-----=20
Original Message -----<BR>> > From: "Pepi Plowman"=20
<PEPSTOIL@YAHOO.COM><BR>> > To:=20
<AUSTIN-GHETTO-LIST@PAIRLIST.NET><BR>> > Sent: Saturday, March =
27,=20
2004 5:32 PM<BR>> > Subject: Re: let's try to do =
nuance<BR>>=20
><BR>> ><BR>> > ><BR>> > > --- Michael =
Eisenstadt=20
<MICHAELE@ANDO.PAIR.COM><BR>> > wrote:<BR>> > > >=20
Pepi,<BR>> > > ><BR>> > > > Thanks for =
writing at=20
length about this.<BR>> > > ><BR>> > > > No, =
I don't=20
speak it.<BR>> > > ><BR>> > > > In Hebrew =
school (to=20
prepare for confirmation at<BR>> > 13<BR>> > > > =
for the=20
sake of my religious grandmother who<BR>> > would<BR>> > =
>=20
> have had a fit if I wasn't confirmed), we used<BR>> > =
to<BR>>=20
> > > say<BR>> > > > Baruch ator, I don't know=20
anymore.<BR>> > > ><BR>> > > > Baruch ator =
are th! e=20
first 2 words of all the<BR>> > > > prayers.<BR>> =
> >=20
> Actually we worked our way through quite a bit<BR>> > =
of<BR>>=20
> > > Genesis reading it in the original which was =
my<BR>> >=20
> > original<BR>> > > > introduction to the =
ENORMOUS charm=20
of reading a<BR>> > > > foreign language.When I slowly =
worked my=20
way<BR>> > through<BR>> > > ><BR>> > > =
> one=20
of the books of the Iliad in the original<BR>> > many<BR>> =
>=20
> > years<BR>> > > > later, I thought back to Miss =
Snow=20
with the<BR>> > enormous<BR>> > > ><BR>> > =
> >=20
boobs driving us like Gadarene swine through the<BR>> > > =
>=20
beginning<BR>> > > > of the bible.<BR>> > =
><BR>>=20
> > Amusing visuals here!<BR>> > ><BR>> > >=20
><BR>> > > > As for your and your sisters' previous=20
lives,<BR>> > that<BR>> >! ; > > sounds<BR>> =
> >=20
> like hard work.<BR>> > ><BR>> > > Seems like =
it=20
always is.<BR>> > ><BR>> > > ><BR>> > =
> >=20
Let me get this straight: the jews burnt in the<BR>> > > =
>=20
ovens<BR>> > > > came back as the Plowman sisters (or =
some of=20
the<BR>> > > > Plowman sisters); the Nazis who died came =
back<BR>> > as<BR>> > > > Israelis.<BR>> > =
>=20
><BR>> > > > I still come back to this simple =
question:=20
if<BR>> > you<BR>> > > > and your<BR>> > =
> >=20
sisters love all people all that much, how do<BR>> > =
you<BR>> >=20
> > come<BR>> > > > to the conclusion that the =
Israelis=20
are reborn<BR>> > > > Nazis?<BR>> > ><BR>> =
> >=20
A few Israelis, perhaps. Certainly, not all.<BR>> > This =
is<BR>>=20
> > merely supposition, in any case, as we both know.<BR>> =
>=20
But<BR!>> > > I would say by observing the ones who =
manifest=20
a<BR>> > > similar persona with a similar agenda (except=20
for<BR>> > the<BR>> > > reversal of the victims), =
however you=20
would<BR>> > describe a<BR>> > > Nazi. Sharon, =
perhaps? Hey,=20
for all we know,<BR>> > Arafat<BR>> > > may have been =
a Jew=20
in his past lifetime!<BR>> > > ><BR>> > =
><BR>> >=20
> > You write:<BR>> > > ><BR>> > > > =
> But=20
may you not hate too much, it's bad for<BR>> > the<BR>> =
> >=20
> soul<BR>> > > > > (I know, you don't believe in =
its=20
existence.<BR>> > Oh,<BR>> > > > > well, so be=20
it).<BR>> ><BR>> =3D=3D=3D message truncated=20
=3D=3D=3D<BR>><BR>><BR>><BR>>=20
__________________________________<BR>> Do you Yahoo!?<BR>> =
Yahoo!=20
Finance Tax Center - File online. File on time.<BR>>=20
=
http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html<BR>><BR>><BR><BR><BR></BLOCKQUOT=
E>
<P>
<HR SIZE=3D1>
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