don't diss all of gods little institutions...surprise!

Sun Mar 28 10:10:35 2004

Amen, right reverend Bubba,
I couldn't agree with you more--but I am off to the Cesar E. Chavez March for Unity at E. 2nd and Comal. Mass for me can be found in alternative ways--activism can be good for the soul so I attend the secular Mass today...
Morey later,
Frances

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 --- On Sun 03/28, Wayne Johnson < cadaobh@shentel.net > wrote:
From: Wayne Johnson [mailto: cadaobh@shentel.net]
To: austin-ghetto-list@pairlist.net
Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2004 09:30:22 -0500
Subject: Re: let's not diss all religious institutions...surprise!

I just found out yesterday that a very dear friend of our in Reston has contract ALS and it has already progessed to the point where he can barely brush his teeth and can't clothe himself. He and his wife had joined a local Unitarian church a couple of years ago and these good people have taken it upon themselves to provide a world of kindness, gentleness, love and direct physical and emotional assistance to him and his wife. This includes visits, shopping trips with and without him, food deliveries and compansionship. To my old timey way of thinking, this is what "churches" used to do: love people and be supportive of those in need. Every so often it is good (for me in particular) to be reminded that there are those who actually practice what their religion suggests is "Christian" behavior. Of course, the Unitarians aren't exactly boiler-plate, orthodox, Holey-Rollers. I believe Ben Franklin was a Unitarian and possibly G. Washington as well. Not exactly Bible thumpers. Many of these congregations accept neo-pagan beliefs without rancor. (Oddly, the only other church I have found with similar sentiments was a (Scottish) Episcopal church in Campbell, CA. Campbell being vurrry Scottish as a person and a clan. Anyway. Have to say sometimes the sysems works and works to the benefit of some who really, really deserve it. wj ----- Original Message ----- From: "Pepi Plowman" <pepstoil@yahoo.com> To: <austin-ghetto-list@pairlist.net> Sent: Saturday, March 27, 2004 9:45 PM Subject: RE: let's not do nuance > Wayne, Judy, Tele, > > I'm with you all the way on the first part. God, what > God? Which God? But allow me to elaborate further, > below... > --- telebob <telebob@sbcglobal.net> wrote: > > Wayne- > > > > I think as you do, and thank you for reminding us > > that most priests and > > factotems are basically criminals who spread > > cultural myths > > totally. Myths that preceded that particular religion > which the priests and factotems accepted as truth and > preached, or myths that were flagrantly made up to > suit a cultural bias in order to bring more ignorant > humans to the "fold". > > (all the better > > if they believe what they preach, it makes it easier > > for them to sleep)in > > order to retain and extend personal and > > institutional power. This is not to > > say that there are no benefits, since those common > > mythyologies help to > > create a 'public order' no matter what the standard. > > Are religious > > societies 'better' than secular societies? > > Fuck, no! > > How do > > we measure? These are > > topics worthy of millions of tomes, and indeed you > > know they are out there > > discussing this shit still, like a bunch of > > sophomores who have just > > dicovered 'philosophy'. > > How dare they abuse us by discussing them?! State and > religion should not mix, Point! > > > > But my dad, who was a doctor, was in a > > 'philosophical' mood one night, a > > little in his cups, and he related. "I watch people > > die and people born > > every day as a part of my job, and all I can say is, > > 'Where does the flame > > go when it goes out?' Does the flame have a soul?" > > So, did he ever answer his question, or did he just > ask? > > > He was not a religious > > man, though he tried to keep up appearances. On the > > other hand, he was > > 'moral' person who enjoyed overpaying his taxes and > > never breaking a traffic > > law. > > > > So when we are approached by 'holy men' of any > > stripe, know you are being > > approached by the powers of darkness. > > Do you really believe there is a Big Boogyman out > there?! > > This includes > > rabbis, priests, > > mullahs, and most medicine men. I put my faith in > > the scientific method and > > its self correcting process. > > >
 > Man, I'd hate to be on the back end of a "self > correcting process" inflicted on me by a source > outside myself (like doctors and lawyers and > policemen) when I had resources available to me that > enabled me to kick metaphorical butt if I were to > employ them. > > > What do we have to look forward to? The peace of > > the grave. > > I'm sure it is a relief! > > Heaven is here > > on earth, make the best of it. People who identify > > with their 'religions' > > are essentially deciding which 'team' they want to > > play on. Imagine it as > > though all religions are just sports teams, and you > > are free to join or not. > > But if you put on the uniform, then you have to play > > for your side, and you > > have to follow the coach and the quarterback's rules > > or get thrown out for > > being a 'bad sport.' > > > You've got to admit, it's better to play on a team in > which you like all the participants--it's hard to work > together, otherwise. We Ghettoans (and I include > myself therein reservedly, though I hung out in the > Ghetto) may not comprise a religion, but we're > certainly a group of human beings gathering together > to speak as/what they will. Something Quakers > did--the only "religion" that I might ever have > considered joining. > > I like to think of religions as all saying essentially > the same thing, therefore I don't have to belong to > any one of them. As for god(s), I doubt the existence > of a "personal god" who counts the hairs on my head or > the sands in the ocean. Gods are created by man in > their likeness. Beyond perhaps an intrinsic > knowingness on a nanochronic level, the biological > internet. > > > Religion and those who follow it are just like Roger > > says, tribal apes. > > I don't follow religion, except to avoid it. On the > other hand, I like to know all about it. > > God > > bless Thorsten Veblen and Madalyn Murray O'Hair. > > > I worked for her back in the seventies as circulation > director for American Atheist. She fired me I think > because she suspected I was a Christian. I liked to > hang out in the library. > > pep > > > telegnostic > > p.s. the "gnostic" says it all--you know you don't > know, right? > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: austin-ghetto-list-admin@pairlist.net > > [mailto:austin-ghetto-list-admin@pairlist.net]On > > Behalf Of Wayne Johnson > > Sent: Saturday, March 27, 2004 5:20 PM > > To: austin-ghetto-list@pairlist.net > > Subject: Re: let's not do nuance > > > > > > Oh, I wish I didn't feel compelled to write this. I > > know, just know, that I > > will surely regret it. But I just can't find any > > sane and > > non-Transcendental argument for the existence of a > > "soul". I really, > > really wish it were true and that we could all come > > back again, but my > > belief is that when the "biological" light goes > > out...it stays out. Finito! > > No mas! > > > > From my perspective, we have some tens of thousands > > of years of "wishful" > > thinking aided and abetted by a bunch of > > semi-literate, semi-criminals who > > wish to profit by spreading mystical and irrational > > beliefs. Did Arthur go > > to Avalon? Probably not, as much as I would like it > > to be so. Ain't going > > to see him again. Nor any other person what has > > kicked the "biological" > > bucket. Doornails is doornails and when you is > > gone, you is over. > > > > So. What do I have to look forward to? Not a damn > > thing. Is that > > existential or what? > > > > Cheers until then...."Happy Trails to You, until we > > meet again". > > > > wj > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Pepi Plowman" <pepstoil@yahoo.com> > > To: <austin-ghetto-list@pairlist.net> > > Sent: Saturday, March 27, 2004 5:32 PM> > Subject: Re: let's try to do nuance > > > > > > > > > > --- Michael Eisenstadt <michaele@ando.pair.com> > > wrote: > > > > Pepi, > > > > > > > > Thanks for writing at length about this. > > > > > > > > No, I don't speak it. > > > > > > > > In Hebrew school (to prepare for confirmation at > > 13 > > > > for the sake of my religious grandmother who > > would > > > > have had a fit if I wasn't confirmed), we used > > to > > > > say > > > > Baruch ator, I don't know anymore. > > > > > > > > Baruch ator are the first 2 words of all the > > > > prayers. > > > > Actually we worked our way through quite a bit > > of > > > > Genesis reading it in the original which was my > > > > original > > > > introduction to the ENORMOUS charm of reading a > > > > foreign language.When I slowly worked my way > > through > > > > > > > > one of the books of the Iliad in the original > > many > > > > years > > > > later, I thought back to Miss Snow with the > > enormous > > > > > > > > boobs driving us like Gadarene swine through the > > > > beginning > > > > of the bible. > > > > > > Amusing visuals here! > > > > > > > > > > > As for your and your sisters' previous lives, > > that > > > > sounds > > > > like hard work. > > > > > > Seems like it always is. > > > > > > > > > > > Let me get this straight: the jews burnt in the > > > > ovens > > > > came back as the Plowman sisters (or some of the > > > > Plowman sisters); the Nazis who died came back > > as > > > > Israelis. > > > > > > > > I still come back to this simple question: if > > you > > > > and your > > > > sisters love all people all that much, how do > > you > > > > come > > > > to the conclusion that the Israelis are reborn > > > > Nazis? > > > > > > A few Israelis, perhaps. Certainly, not all. > > This is > > > merely supposition, in any case, as we both know. > > But > > > I would say by observing the ones who manifest a > > > similar persona with a similar agenda (except for > > the > > > reversal of the victims), however you would > > describe a > > > Nazi. Sharon, perhaps? Hey, for all we know, > > Arafat > > > may have been a Jew in his past lifetime! > > > > > > > > > > > You write: > > > > > > > > > But may you not hate too much, it's bad for > > the > > > > soul > > > > > (I know, you don't believe in its existence. > > Oh, > > > > > well, so be it). > > > === message truncated === > > > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Finance Tax Center - File online. File on time. > http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html > >