let's not do nuance

[Pepi Plowman]

Wayne, Judy, Tele,

I'm with you all the way on the first part.  God, what
God? Which God? But allow me to elaborate further,
below...
--- telebob <telebob@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> Wayne-
> 
> I think as you do, and thank you for reminding us
> that most priests and
> factotems are basically criminals who spread
> cultural myths 

totally.  Myths that preceded that particular religion
which the priests and factotems accepted as truth and 
preached, or myths that were flagrantly made up to
suit a cultural bias in order to bring more ignorant
humans to the "fold".

(all the better
> if they believe what they preach, it makes it easier
> for them to sleep)in
> order to retain and extend personal and
> institutional power.  This is not to
> say that there are no benefits, since those common
> mythyologies help to
> create a 'public order' no matter what the standard.
>  Are religious
> societies 'better' than secular societies?  

Fuck, no!

How do
> we measure?  These are
> topics worthy of millions of tomes, and indeed you
> know they are out there
> discussing this shit still, like a bunch of
> sophomores who have just
> dicovered 'philosophy'.

How dare they abuse us by discussing them?! State and
religion should not mix, Point!
> 
> But my dad, who was a doctor, was in a
> 'philosophical' mood one night, a
> little in his cups, and he related.  "I watch people
> die and people born
> every day as a part of my job, and all I can say is,
> 'Where does the flame
> go when it goes out?'  Does the flame have a soul?"

So, did he ever answer his question, or did he just
ask?

> He was not a religious
> man, though he tried to keep up appearances. On the
> other hand, he was
> 'moral' person who enjoyed overpaying his taxes and
> never breaking a traffic
> law.
> 
> So when we are approached by 'holy men' of any
> stripe, know you are being
> approached by the powers of darkness. 

Do you really believe there is a Big Boogyman out
there?!

This includes
> rabbis, priests,
> mullahs, and most medicine men.  I put my faith in
> the scientific method and
> its self correcting process.
> 

Man, I'd hate to be on the back end of a "self
correcting process" inflicted on me by a source
outside myself (like doctors and lawyers and
policemen) when I had resources available to me that
enabled me to kick metaphorical butt if I were to
employ them.

> What do we have to look forward to?  The peace of
> the grave.  

I'm sure it is a relief!

Heaven is here
> on earth, make the best of it. People who identify
> with their 'religions'
> are essentially deciding which 'team' they want to
> play on.  Imagine it as
> though all religions are just sports teams, and you
> are free to join or not.
> But if you put on the uniform, then you have to play
> for your side, and you
> have to follow the coach and the quarterback's rules
> or get thrown out for
> being a 'bad sport.'
> 
You've got to admit, it's better to play on a team in
which you like all the participants--it's hard to work
together, otherwise.  We Ghettoans (and I include
myself therein reservedly, though I hung out in the
Ghetto) may not comprise a religion, but we're
certainly a group of human beings gathering together
to speak as/what they will.  Something Quakers
did--the only "religion" that I might ever have
considered joining.

I like to think of religions as all saying essentially
the same thing, therefore I don't have to belong to
any one of them.  As for god(s), I doubt the existence
of a "personal god" who counts the hairs on my head or
the sands in the ocean.  Gods are created by man in
their likeness.  Beyond perhaps an intrinsic
knowingness on a nanochronic level, the biological
internet.

> Religion and those who follow it are just like Roger
> says, tribal apes.  

I don't follow religion, except to avoid it.  On the
other hand, I like to know all about it.

God
> bless Thorsten Veblen and Madalyn Murray O'Hair.
> 
I worked for her back in the seventies as circulation
director for American Atheist.  She fired me I think
because she suspected I was a Christian.  I liked to
hang out in the library.  

pep

> telegnostic

p.s. the "gnostic" says it all--you know you don't
know, right?
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: austin-ghetto-list-admin@pairlist.net
> [mailto:austin-ghetto-list-admin@pairlist.net]On
> Behalf Of Wayne Johnson
> Sent: Saturday, March 27, 2004 5:20 PM
> To: austin-ghetto-list@pairlist.net
> Subject: Re: let's not do nuance
> 
> 
> Oh, I wish I didn't feel compelled to write this.  I
> know, just know, that I
> will surely regret it.  But I just can't find any
> sane and
> non-Transcendental argument for the existence of a
> "soul".  I really,
> really wish it were true and that we could all come
> back again, but my
> belief is that when the "biological" light goes
> out...it stays out.  Finito!
> No mas!
> 
> From my perspective, we have some tens of thousands
> of years of "wishful"
> thinking aided and abetted by a bunch of
> semi-literate, semi-criminals who
> wish to profit by spreading mystical and irrational
> beliefs.  Did Arthur go
> to Avalon?  Probably not, as much as I would like it
> to be so. Ain't going
> to see him again.  Nor any other person what has
> kicked the "biological"
> bucket.  Doornails is doornails and when you is
> gone, you is over.
> 
> So.  What do I have to look forward to?  Not a damn
> thing.  Is that
> existential or what?
> 
> Cheers until then...."Happy Trails to You, until we
> meet again".
> 
> wj
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Pepi Plowman" <pepstoil@yahoo.com>
> To: <austin-ghetto-list@pairlist.net>
> Sent: Saturday, March 27, 2004 5:32 PM
> Subject: Re: let's try to do nuance
> 
> 
> >
> > --- Michael Eisenstadt <michaele@ando.pair.com>
> wrote:
> > > Pepi,
> > >
> > > Thanks for writing at length about this.
> > >
> > > No, I don't speak it.
> > >
> > > In Hebrew school (to prepare for confirmation at
> 13
> > > for the sake of my religious grandmother who
> would
> > > have had a fit if I wasn't confirmed), we used
> to
> > > say
> > > Baruch ator, I don't know anymore.
> > >
> > > Baruch ator are the first 2 words of all the
> > > prayers.
> > > Actually we worked our way through quite a bit
> of
> > > Genesis reading it in the original which was my
> > > original
> > > introduction to the ENORMOUS charm of reading a
> > > foreign language.When I slowly worked my way
> through
> > >
> > > one of the books of the Iliad in the original
> many
> > > years
> > > later, I thought back to Miss Snow with the
> enormous
> > >
> > > boobs driving us like Gadarene swine through the
> > > beginning
> > > of the bible.
> >
> > Amusing visuals here!
> >
> > >
> > > As for your and your sisters' previous lives,
> that
> > > sounds
> > > like hard work.
> >
> > Seems like it always is.
> >
> > >
> > > Let me get this straight: the jews burnt in the
> > > ovens
> > > came back as the Plowman sisters (or some of the
> > > Plowman sisters); the Nazis who died came back
> as
> > > Israelis.
> > >
> > > I still come back to this simple question: if
> you
> > > and your
> > > sisters love all people all that much, how do
> you
> > > come
> > > to the conclusion that the Israelis are reborn
> > > Nazis?
> >
> > A few Israelis, perhaps.  Certainly, not all. 
> This is
> > merely supposition, in any case, as we both know. 
> But
> > I would say by observing the ones who manifest a
> > similar persona with a similar agenda (except for
> the
> > reversal of the victims), however you would
> describe a
> > Nazi.  Sharon, perhaps?  Hey, for all we know,
> Arafat
> > may have been a Jew in his past lifetime!
> > >
> >
> > > You write:
> > >
> > > > But may you not hate too much, it's bad for
> the
> > > soul
> > > > (I know, you don't believe in its existence. 
> Oh,
> > > > well, so be it).
> 
=== message truncated ===



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