Alternatives to the 9-11 Orthodontist?
Wayne Johnson
cadaobh2@brgnet.com
Sun, 27 Jan 2002 10:00:19 -0500
Well, TeleBob, I have been hoisted by my own canard. Your comment is quite
accurate...to a point. Truthfully, those types I met weren't real bright.
I am sure there are some smart people around, but like so many of us, it is
hard to resist pointing out the blunders and dumbness of government agencies
one doesn't like. (The Corps of Engineers also comes to mind.) I will stick
by my comment regarding A&M as the source was a good one...although many
years in the past.
I don't like and don't trust "police" agencies because they DO fulfill the
Goffman model of "institutionalized individuals". In fact, most police
academies function the same way in that they begin the "separation" between
"civilians" and "officers" immediately. This indoctrination sticks and gets
massive reinforcement by what they do. Still, one isn't automatically a
card carrying scum bag because one...drives an older car, has long hair or
no hair, or tattoes, or peace signs on the bumper. Perhaps you weren't
subject of police harassment when you lived in Ca but I was and my friends
were. And it was real Profiling.
The other issue is one of covert "policies", most of which are based on very
spurious assumptions about the rights of people outside the US to protest
American business exploitation. This is, now that the USSR is disbanded,
the most heavily self-propagandized country in the world. Our educational
system has been slow to recognize any kind of political or social injustice
perpetrated by the US govt/business on racial or religious minorities. How
much "treaty breaking" did you hear about in High School when you were
reading about the settlement of the American West (mostly sponsored by the
railroad and mining industry btw.) When did you find out the some Heroes
like Kit Carson were among the first to use biological warfare against
native peoples or that Gen. Sherman came up killing the buffaloes to rid
ourselves of the same people. Was this part of your curriculae? Certainly
wasn't part of mine, through 12 years of public school and six years of UT.
These things are recognized now, but millions of Americans grew up with the
basic John Wayne outlook I did. We have sooo many myths about our leaders,
our history, our "way of life", most of which...like Christmas presents and
Valentines' Day cards have been created by American business. Maybe that
doesn't matter any more, they are here to stay but my point is that they
just didn't naturally spring up from the native goodness of the American
heart, they were created. Like today's image of law enforcement:
Look at what is on TV...pretend you are a sociologist or anthropologist
from Beta Prime IV or something...and ask yourself why:
1. Dramatic series are almost 100% about cops. What percentage of prime
time is taken up with cop programs? Half?
2. Black comedy is almost always full of Jr. High level double (sexual)
entendre. How many black Americans do YOU know that talk this way?
3. PBS news is mostly filled with conservative commentators. (Lehrer
Report, for instance, conservatives have been on 3 times more than
liberals.)
4. Violence prevails, especially on News and "sports"....and the WWF
mentality is slithering through the networks. (Of course this sold
newspapers, too.)
Further, while there have been numerous political assassinations of those
on the "left", name one (in the 20th C) on the "right".
This is a very conservative, very right-wing religious with a sordid history
of manipulation, deceit and outright intervention of other countries dating
back to the Monroe Doctrine (not Marilyn). Most of our "interventions" from
the "Shores of Montezuma" to the Boxer Rebellion to Chile have come about to
protect American business interests. Indeed, one could argue that the real
purpose of the CIA has been to determine how best to overthrow governments
resisting the United Fruit Company. Oh, the Brits are just as bad,
especially with their wretched Middle-Eastern policies. But the US is no
less a Colonial power, we just disguise it with a lot of popular
psycho-babble and patriotic jingo-language. For Reaganites this has always
meant "democracy = US $$$".
I don't doubt that we need "intelligence" agencies for our national defense
for one instant. What I don't like is an historic distortion of "American
Mythology" created to defend covert operations whose only goal is to
buttress American investments abroad regardless of the cost to the quality
of life of the native people, whether Viet Nam or Nicaragua. Plus the
"black" projects which spend billions of our tax money for highly dubious
projects of zero accountability...save for some selected Congressional
whores.
Having said that, let me also say that while I have a pretty dim view of the
American Army...as an institution...or the Navy/Marines/AF... for that
matter, some of the brightest, nicest people I have ever known or been proud
to have as friends have served with distinction in the armed forces. A
very, very good friend of mine is a former Marine Special Ops guy and
absolutely one of the toughest people I have ever met (Bob used to beat up
on Rangers for fun, four at a time.) His advice: No one who has not seen
first hand what war is/can do should even THINK about ordering men/women
into combat.
No, the rot starts at the top. Mysterious forces, unknown to the rest of
us, seemingly out of synch with any rhyme, reason or ethical justification
appear to propel our federal denizens into the dark areas of the world. The
horror, the horror.....
WJ
And good morning to YOU, Mr. Simmons
-----Original Message-----
From: austin-ghetto-list-admin@pairlist.net
[mailto:austin-ghetto-list-admin@pairlist.net]On Behalf Of telebob x
Sent: Saturday, January 26, 2002 4:53 PM
To: austin-ghetto-list@yahoogroups.com
Cc: austin-ghetto-list@pairlist.net
Subject: RE: Alternatives to the 9-11 Orthodontist?
Oh Bubba come on...don't let your own orthodoxy blind you to the fact there
are some VERY smart cookies in the intelligence agencies...though they are,
albeit, a mixed bag. As James Jesus Angleton said..."There are many rooms
in the castle." And in case you do not know who JJA was, then you had best
stick to those topics you know a lot about like Art and Architecture and
stuff.
I was a Government major and I remember in the 60's when the Agency came
shopping around the grad school looking for bright young things to lure away
to Langly. The applicants were mainly selected from alert students who were
pointed out by the professors. The professor of Govt...usually someone
teaching History of Foreign Affairs etc, would call a student aside to find
out if they would like to interview. The general class population would not
even know they were interviewing. Those who were tapped were certainly not
the dummies.
The political enemies of the Agency as a 'concept' are the ones who are most
responsible for the canards (and truths) about their blunders...and
obviously there have been some real toe stubbers to give the naysayers
something to work with.
I remember talking with Billy Lee Brammer about what he thought of Agency
spook types, and I thought his response quite intelligent. He said it was
like any huge government agency. There were all kinds of people in it...of
all political stripes, and of varied intellectual accomplishment.
I DID read a nice critical piece the other day inj Harpers pointing out that
some of the more adventurous projects the CIA fucked up in the 60's and 70's
and especially after Iran....the spy culture had become very risk averse. I
am not sure we want a risk averse Intelligence corps, but by the same token,
do we want one that takes an activist stance?
One can easily see that the Agency, NSA, and the Military Intelligence arms
have a nasty 'damned if you do/damned if you don't' problem to deal with.
Same as it ever was. Heroes and fools in the same barrel.
Telebob
ps- Joe Rowe once sold me a 1932 Model A panel truck that was subsequently
stolen from me by Dr. Dirty Tom Muir. I remember Joe fondly. I still think
Tom Muir quite the dickhead.
>From: "Wayne Johnson" <cadaobh2@brgnet.com>
>Reply-To: austin-ghetto-list@yahoogroups.com
>To: <austin-ghetto-list@yahoogroups.com>
>Subject: RE: Alternatives to the 9-11 Orthodoxy?
>Date: Sat, 26 Jan 2002 16:13:28 -0500
>
>"How could they be THAT stupid?" (emphasis mine) They could be so stupid
>as
>to try to poison Castro's cigars or think that anyone who wants to keep
>Mexican or Central American peasants from being systematically exploited to
>death by the United Fruit company can ONLY be a communist? They can think
>that just because Viet Nam is closer to China than Berlin, it MUST be part
>of the Great Uniform & Godless Communist Conspiracy. They can think,
>without much question, that information about just how many ICBMs the
>Russians have, passed on to them by former SS/Gestapo spy masters MUST be
>good stuff. Anything that scary MUST be true. Why would the ex-German
>spies LIE? They could be stupid enough to secretly fund their "black"
>projects by going into the narcotics trade. And, quite possibly, they
>could
>be stupid...and arrogant...enough to murder a few prominent
>Irish-American/African-American politicians they viewed as a threat.
>
>"Oh, my, Luke, it looks like your little friends in the Rebellion won't be
>running for President after all."
>
>Oh. I almost forgot about NSA/other agency funding for Yuri Geller and
>similar "phantasmagoria" at Stanford Research Institute in the Sixties,
>Seventies and Eighties.
>
>"Wow. He can bend a spoon? Can he read Stalin's mind?"
>"Sir. Stalin is dead!"
>"He is?"
>
>W.
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Joseph H. Rowe [mailto:paramod@club-internet.fr]
>Sent: Saturday, January 26, 2002 1:15 PM
>To: austin-ghetto-list@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: RE: Alternatives to the 9-11 Orthodoxy?
>
>Wayne Johnson wrote:
> >For one thing, US intelligence generates a huge amount of data,
> >yet the CIA lacks the ability to synthesis all of it accurately.
>
> <sigh> How many times to I have to point out the obvious fact
>a major event such as top, professional Russian and Israeli
>operatives warning their American colleagues is NOT just another blip
>among the "huge amount of data". The CIA may be stupid, but it's not
>so stupid as to process critical information from a source like this
>as if it belonged to the same category as an anonymous
>Mideast-accented voice calling from a pay phone in an all-night 7-11
>store. When high-level Russian intelligence officers give information
>like this to their American counterparts, and then leak it to the
>public, you can be damn sure it the top guys have been well-briefed
>about it. It isn't filed and lost in some inefficient data-processing
>system.
>
> >Have you ever met anyone who worked for NSA, the CIA, FBI or the Secret
> >Service?
>
> Yes, as a matter of fact, I have. He was a very intelligent,
>and suprisingly cultivated man. Although retired, he knew a hell of a
>lot about CIA operations during the cold war, and talked --- with
>obvious discretion --- about some of it over dinner and several
>glasses of wine. I didn't agree with his politics, but I never told
>him. He was the father of a friend of mine. I did respect his
>intelligence, insight, and even his ethics. Of course this man would
>never have agreed to participate in a criminal conspiracy such as
>we're talking about. But then he almost certainly wouldn't be asked
>to, either. But he would be told to keep his mouth shut, whether he
>agreed with it or not. And this he would do, most probably.
>
> >Contrary to TV, most of these guys are not the "best and the
> >brightest". One of the most popular "recruiting stations" for the
>FBI/CIA
> >was...tah, tah... Texas A&M! Why? Because they were the right gender
> >(male), the right age (under 25), mostly Protestant (very, very
>important),
> >used to being told what to do by Authorities (see previous) and super
> >Patriotic. To borrow from Goffman, they were ripe for
> >"institutionalization". Did this provide us with added security? Did
>this
> >provide us with "vision" or...ho, ho, ho..."imagination"? Not much.
>Does
> >produce a LOT of paranoid, supersuspicious, hyper-patriotic,
> >not-very-literate Clint Eastwood wannabes, however.
>
> <Ye gods!> In a sense, this line of thinking is more
>appalling, depressing, and perhaps even scarier than the conspiracy
>hypothesis. I admit it could be true. Never underestimate stupidity.
>"Against stupidity, the gods themselves struggle unvictorious."
>(can't remember who said that). OK. Noted.
> However. Do you really, in your heart, believe these aggies
>or whoever they are, are THAT stupid? Only in aggie jokes, I think.
>And dont forget, I'm not talking about low-level robotic crewcut
>entry-level agents, I'm talking about the top guys. How COULD they be
>that stupid? Think about it....
>
>
>
>
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