[Austin-ghetto-list] Fwd: On Afghanistan...
Wayne Johnson
cadaobh2@brgnet.com
Wed, 19 Sep 2001 11:25:06 -0400
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
------=_NextPart_000_0000_01C140FD.BB9FCC40
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Really good input from someone who knows something about Afghanistan beyond
what the "talking heads...and their bellies" know.
As stated by me elsewhere...and I don't know what the heck is going on with
the web service these days...we need to march in with tons of food and
medicine, not just rockets and bayonets.
Wayne
-----Original Message-----
From: austin-ghetto-list-admin@pairlist.net
[mailto:austin-ghetto-list-admin@pairlist.net]On Behalf Of Karen Willis
Sent: Monday, September 17, 2001 8:19 PM
To: austin-ghetto-list@pairlist.net
Subject: [Austin-ghetto-list] Fwd: On Afghanistan...
This was received from a cat-related list, but I think you all will be
interested in the Afghani viewpoint.
Karen
Subject: A view from Afghanistan
The following was sent to me by my friend Tamim
Ansary. Tamim is an Afghani-American writer. He is
also one of the most brilliant people I know in this
life. When he writes, I read. When he talks, I
listen. Here is his take on Afghanistan and the whole
mess we are in.
xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
I've been hearing a lot of talk about "bombing
Afghanistan back to the Stone Age." Ronn Owens, on KGO
Talk Radio today, allowed that this would mean killing
innocent people, people who had nothing to do with
this atrocity, but "we're at war, we have to accept
collateral damage. What else can we do?" Minutes later
I heard some TV pundit discussing whether we "have the
belly to do what must be done."
And I thought about the issues being raised especially
hard because I am from Afghanistan, and even though
I've lived here (the US) for 35 years I've
never lost track of what's going on there. So I want
to tell anyone who will listen how it all looks from
where I'm standing.
I speak as one who hates the Taliban and Osama Bin
Laden. There is no doubt in my mind that these people
were responsible for the atrocity in New York. I agree
that something must be done about those monsters.
But the Taliban and Ben Laden are not Afghanistan.
They're not even the government of Afghanistan. The
Taliban are a cult of ignorant psychotics who took
over Afghanistan in 1997. Bin Laden is a political
criminal with a plan. When you think Taliban, think
Nazis. When you think Bin Laden, think Hitler. And
when you think "the people of Afghanistan" think "the
Jews in the concentration camps." It's not only that
the Afghan people had nothing to do with this atrocity.
They were the first victims of the perpetrators. They
would exult if someone would come in there, take out
the Taliban and clear out the rats nest of international
thugs holed up in their country.
Some say, why don't the Afghans rise up and overthrow
the Taliban? The answer is, they're starved,
exhausted, hurt, incapacitated, suffering. A few years
ago, the United Nations estimated that there are
500,000 disabled orphans in Afghanistan--a country
with no economy, no food. There are millions of
widows. And the Taliban has been burying these
widows alive in mass graves. The soil is littered
with land mines, the farms were all destroyed by the
Soviets. These are a few of the reasons why the
Afghan people have not overthrown the Taliban.
We come now to the question of bombing Afghanistan
back to the Stone Age. Trouble is, that's been done.
The Soviets took care of it already. Make the Afghans
suffer? They're already suffering. Level their houses?
Done. Turn their schools into piles of rubble? Done.
Eradicate their hospitals? Done. Destroy their
infrastructure? Cut them off from medicine and health
care? Too late. Someone already did all that. New
bombs would only stir the rubble of earlier bombs.
Would they at least get the Taliban? Not likely. In
today's Afghanistan, only the Taliban eat, only they
have the means to move around. They'd slip away and
hide. Maybe the bombs would get some of those disabled
orphans, they don't move too fast, they don't even
have wheelchairs. But flying over Kabul and dropping
bombs wouldn't really be a strike against the
criminals who did this horrific thing. Actually it
would only be making common cause with the Taliban--by
raping once again the people they've been raping all
this time.
So what else is there? What can be done, then? Let me
now speak with true fear and trembling. The only way
to get Bin Laden is to go in there with ground troops.
When people speak of "having the belly to do what
needs to be done" they're thinking in terms of having
the belly to kill as many as needed. Having the belly
to overcome any moral qualms about killing innocent
people. Let's pull our heads out of the sand. What's
actually on the table is Americans dying. And not just
because some Americans would die fighting their way
through Afghanistan to Bin Laden's hideout. It's much
bigger than that folks. Because to get any
troops to Afghanistan, we'd have to go through
Pakistan. Would they let us? Not likely. The conquest
of Pakistan would have to be first. Will other Muslim
nations just stand by? You see where I'm going. We're
flirting with a world war between Islam and the West.
And guess what: that's Bin Laden's program. That's
exactly what he wants. That's why he did this. Read
his speeches and statements. It's all right there. He
really believes Islam would beat the west. It might
seem ridiculous, but he figures if he can polarize the
world into Islam and the West, he's got a billion
soldiers. If the west wreaks a holocaust in those
lands, that's a billion people with nothing left to
lose, that's even better from Bin Laden's point of
view. He's probably wrong, in the end the west would
win, whatever that would mean, but the war would last
for years and millions would die, not just theirs but
ours. Who has the belly for that? Bin Laden does.
Anyone else?
Tamim Ansary
C. Clark
Jiyushinkai Aikibudo
www.jiyushinkai.org
"The fundamental delusion of mankind is
that I am here and you are out there."
- Yasutani Roshi
------=_NextPart_000_0000_01C140FD.BB9FCC40
Content-Type: text/html;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Diso-8859-1">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.50.4134.600" name=3DGENERATOR></HEAD>
<BODY>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D740332315-19092001><FONT face=3D"MS Sans Serif" =
color=3D#0000ff=20
size=3D2>Really good input from someone who knows something about =
Afghanistan=20
beyond what the "talking heads...and their bellies" know. =20
</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D740332315-19092001><FONT face=3D"MS Sans Serif" =
color=3D#0000ff=20
size=3D2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D740332315-19092001><FONT face=3D"MS Sans Serif" =
color=3D#0000ff=20
size=3D2>As stated by me elsewhere...and I don't know what the heck is =
going on=20
with the web service these days...we need to march in with tons of food =
and=20
medicine, not just rockets and bayonets.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D740332315-19092001><FONT face=3D"MS Sans Serif" =
color=3D#0000ff=20
size=3D2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D740332315-19092001><FONT face=3D"MS Sans Serif" =
color=3D#0000ff=20
size=3D2>Wayne</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr style=3D"MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV class=3DOutlookMessageHeader dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><FONT =
face=3DTahoma=20
size=3D2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B>=20
austin-ghetto-list-admin@pairlist.net=20
[mailto:austin-ghetto-list-admin@pairlist.net]<B>On Behalf Of =
</B>Karen=20
Willis<BR><B>Sent:</B> Monday, September 17, 2001 8:19 =
PM<BR><B>To:</B>=20
austin-ghetto-list@pairlist.net<BR><B>Subject:</B> =
[Austin-ghetto-list] Fwd:=20
On Afghanistan...<BR><BR></FONT></DIV><FONT size=3D3>This was received =
from a=20
cat-related list, but I think you all will be interested in the =
Afghani=20
viewpoint.<BR>Karen<BR><BR><BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE cite type=3D"cite">
<BLOCKQUOTE cite type=3D"cite">
<BLOCKQUOTE cite type=3D"cite">Subject: A view from =
Afghanistan<BR><BR>The=20
following was sent to me by my friend Tamim<BR>Ansary. Tamim is =
an=20
Afghani-American writer. He is<BR>also one of the most brilliant =
people=20
I know in this<BR>life. When he writes, I read. When he talks,=20
I<BR>listen. Here is his take on Afghanistan and the =
whole<BR>mess we=20
are in.<BR><BR><BR>xxxxxxxxxxxxxx<BR><BR>I've been hearing a lot =
of talk=20
about "bombing<BR>Afghanistan back to the Stone Age." Ronn =
Owens, on=20
KGO<BR>Talk Radio today, allowed that this would mean=20
killing<BR>innocent people, people who had nothing to do =
with<BR>this=20
atrocity, but "we're at war, we have to accept<BR>collateral =
damage.=20
What else can we do?" Minutes later<BR>I heard some TV pundit =
discussing=20
whether we "have the<BR>belly to do what must be =
done."<BR><BR>And I=20
thought about the issues being raised especially<BR>hard because =
I am=20
from Afghanistan, and even though<BR>I've lived here (the US) =
for 35=20
years I've<BR>never lost track of what's going on there. So I =
want<BR>to=20
tell anyone who will listen how it all looks from<BR>where I'm=20
standing.<BR><BR>I speak as one who hates the Taliban and Osama=20
Bin<BR>Laden. There is no doubt in my mind that these =
people<BR>were=20
responsible for the atrocity in New York. I agree<BR>that =
something must=20
be done about those monsters.<BR><BR>But the Taliban and Ben =
Laden are=20
not Afghanistan.<BR>They're not even the government of =
Afghanistan.=20
The<BR>Taliban are a cult of ignorant psychotics who =
took<BR>over=20
Afghanistan in 1997. Bin Laden is a political<BR>criminal with a =
plan.=20
When you think Taliban, think<BR>Nazis. When you think Bin =
Laden, think=20
Hitler. And<BR>when you think "the people of Afghanistan" think=20
"the<BR>Jews in the concentration camps." It's not only =
that<BR>the=20
Afghan people had nothing to do with this atrocity.<BR>They were =
the=20
first victims of the perpetrators. They<BR>would exult if =
someone would=20
come in there, take out<BR>the Taliban and clear out the rats =
nest of=20
international<BR>thugs holed up in their country.<BR><BR>Some =
say, why=20
don't the Afghans rise up and overthrow<BR>the Taliban? The =
answer is,=20
they're starved,<BR>exhausted, hurt, incapacitated, suffering. A =
few=20
years<BR>ago, the United Nations estimated that there =
are<BR>500,000=20
disabled orphans in Afghanistan--a country<BR>with no economy, =
no food.=20
There are millions of<BR>widows. And the Taliban has been =
burying=20
these<BR>widows alive in mass graves. The soil is =
littered<BR>with land=20
mines, the farms were all destroyed by the<BR>Soviets. These are =
a few=20
of the reasons why the<BR>Afghan people have not overthrown the=20
Taliban.<BR><BR>We come now to the question of bombing=20
Afghanistan<BR>back to the Stone Age. Trouble is, that's been=20
done.<BR>The Soviets took care of it already. Make the=20
Afghans<BR>suffer? They're already suffering. Level their=20
houses?<BR>Done. Turn their schools into piles of rubble?=20
Done.<BR>Eradicate their hospitals? Done. Destroy=20
their<BR>infrastructure? Cut them off from medicine and =
health<BR>care?=20
Too late. Someone already did all that. New<BR>bombs would only =
stir the=20
rubble of earlier bombs.<BR>Would they at least get the Taliban? =
Not=20
likely. In<BR>today's Afghanistan, only the Taliban eat, only=20
they<BR>have the means to move around. They'd slip away =
and<BR>hide.=20
Maybe the bombs would get some of those disabled<BR>orphans, =
they don't=20
move too fast, they don't even<BR>have wheelchairs. But flying =
over=20
Kabul and dropping<BR>bombs wouldn't really be a strike against=20
the<BR>criminals who did this horrific thing. Actually =
it<BR>would only=20
be making common cause with the Taliban--by<BR>raping once again =
the=20
people they've been raping all<BR>this time.<BR><BR>So what else =
is=20
there? What can be done, then? Let me<BR>now speak with true =
fear and=20
trembling. The only way<BR>to get Bin Laden is to go in there =
with=20
ground troops.<BR>When people speak of "having the belly to do=20
what<BR>needs to be done" they're thinking in terms of =
having<BR>the=20
belly to kill as many as needed. Having the belly<BR>to overcome =
any=20
moral qualms about killing innocent<BR>people. Let's pull our =
heads out=20
of the sand. What's<BR>actually on the table is Americans dying. =
And not=20
just<BR>because some Americans would die fighting their =
way<BR>through=20
Afghanistan to Bin Laden's hideout. It's much<BR>bigger than =
that folks.=20
Because to get any<BR>troops to Afghanistan, we'd have to go=20
through<BR>Pakistan. Would they let us? Not likely. The =
conquest<BR>of=20
Pakistan would have to be first. Will other Muslim<BR>nations =
just stand=20
by? You see where I'm going. We're<BR>flirting with a world war =
between=20
Islam and the West.<BR><BR>And guess what: that's Bin Laden's =
program.=20
That's<BR>exactly what he wants. That's why he did this. =
Read<BR>his=20
speeches and statements. It's all right there. He<BR>really =
believes=20
Islam would beat the west. It might<BR>seem ridiculous, but he =
figures=20
if he can polarize the<BR>world into Islam and the West, he's =
got a=20
billion<BR>soldiers. If the west wreaks a holocaust in =
those<BR>lands,=20
that's a billion people with nothing left to<BR>lose, that's =
even better=20
from Bin Laden's point of<BR>view. He's probably wrong, in the =
end the=20
west would<BR>win, whatever that would mean, but the war would=20
last<BR>for years and millions would die, not just theirs =
but<BR>ours.=20
Who has the belly for that? Bin Laden does.<BR>Anyone =
else?<BR><BR>Tamim=20
Ansary<BR>C. Clark<BR><BR>Jiyushinkai Aikibudo<BR><A=20
href=3D"http://www.jiyushinkai.org/"=20
=
eudora=3D"autourl">www.jiyushinkai.org</A><BR><BR>  =
; =20
"The fundamental delusion of mankind=20
is<BR> =
that I am=20
here and you are out=20
=
there."<BR> &n=
bsp; &nb=
sp; =20
- Yasutani=20
Roshi</BLOCKQUOTE></FONT></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></=
HTML>
------=_NextPart_000_0000_01C140FD.BB9FCC40--