this just in

[Roger Baker]

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On Thursday, November 22, 2001, at 10:06 AM, Michael Eisenstadt wrote:

> It is pleasant to hear that American special forces
> and their airplanes have established bases in
> southern Afghanistan and have already hunted down
> and killed quite a number of non-Afghan mujahedeen.
>


But now what? Are we now willing to stay there for years or
decades to prop up whatever government we install? I think
now we're going to have bad press on Al Jazeera forever.


> I am keeping my fingers crossed that Bush and
> company dont now go after Iraq. On the other hand
> if it could be done with the finesse of the
> Afghanistan intervention...
>

Iraq used to be on the road to modernization using oil money
until the Gulf War. All the sanctions that have cost an
enormous toll on the civilian population. Here is how the Saudis
feel. They are sending us a warning:




http://www.nytimes.com/2001/11/22/international/middleeast/22SAUD.html

"Saudi Sees No bin Laden-Iraq Link

By DOUGLAS JEHL
Agence France-Presse

IYADH, Saudi Arabia, Nov. 21 =97 Saudi Arabia's former intelligence =
chief=20
said today that his government had seen no evidence that the Iraqi=20
government had provided support to Osama bin Laden's Al Qaeda network.=20=

He said Saudi Arabia would not support making Iraq a military target of=20=

the war on terrorism.

The official, Prince Turki bin Faisal, said that his country regarded=20
the Iraqi leader, Saddam Hussein, as one of the world's most active=20
terrorists. But he said the best way to topple him would be a coup=20
carried out inside Iraq, and that the United States and its allies=20
should avoid further military strikes in the region.

The warning by Prince Turki was the most explicit yet in what appears to=20=

be a growing effort by Arab governments to head off what many in the=20
region suspect may be the next phase in the American-led war: making a=20=

target of Iraq as a supporter of terrorism, particularly if it can be=20
linked to the Al Qaeda network..."


> As to the future and the role that Islam will
> play in the world, for starters hunt down a copy
> of Samuel Huntington's The Clash of Civilizations
> and the Remaking of World Order. This was
> published in 1996 and is the most up-to-date
> overview of the subject. Best insight so far
> (I'm about 1/3 through): non Western civilizations
> can and do modernize without abandoning their
> religion. The religious revival of the last
> 30 years ALL OVER THE WORLD is apparently the
> joker in the pack.
>


Marx was right when he pointed out that the class struggle is endemic to
human civilization. If you take away political ideologies like communism=20=

as
a framework for populist opposition to economic domination, you
automatically elevate religion into its place, just as US Blacks have=20
used
the church as their shelter and voice for justice of last resort.

Where you used to have secular Arabs struggling for political reform,=20
you now
have islamic fundamentalists fighting for the same freedoms, but=20
according to
their own tribal or nationalistic religious quirks interacting with=20
bombs, CIA money,
Pakistani agendas, etc.

If you leave the situation alone, then you get modernist left-wing=20
sentiments
developing like on Al Jazeera TV; the one free uncensored populist voice
of Arabs which, not coincidently, also opposes corporate domination.

Hppy thnksgvng!


















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On Thursday, November 22, 2001, at 10:06 AM, Michael Eisenstadt wrote:


<excerpt>It is pleasant to hear that American special forces

and their airplanes have established bases in=20

southern Afghanistan and have already hunted down

and killed quite a number of non-Afghan mujahedeen.=20


</excerpt>


But now what? Are we now willing to stay there for years or=20

decades to prop up whatever government we install? I think=20

now we're going to have bad press on Al Jazeera forever.



<excerpt>I am keeping my fingers crossed that Bush and

company dont now go after Iraq. On the other hand

if it could be done with the finesse of the

Afghanistan intervention...


</excerpt>

Iraq used to be on the road to modernization using oil money=20

until the Gulf War. All the sanctions that have cost an

enormous toll on the civilian population. Here is how the Saudis=20

feel. They are sending us a warning:





http://www.nytimes.com/2001/11/22/international/middleeast/22SAUD.html


<fontfamily><param>Geneva</param>"Saudi Sees No bin Laden-Iraq Link


By DOUGLAS JEHL

Agence France-Presse


IYADH, Saudi Arabia, Nov. 21 =97 Saudi Arabia's former intelligence
chief said today that his government had seen no evidence that the
Iraqi government had provided support to Osama bin Laden's Al Qaeda
network. He said Saudi Arabia would not support making Iraq a military
target of the war on terrorism.


The official, Prince Turki bin Faisal, said that his country regarded
the Iraqi leader, Saddam Hussein, as one of the world's most active
terrorists. But he said the best way to topple him would be a coup
carried out inside Iraq, and that the United States and its allies
should avoid further military strikes in the region.


The warning by Prince Turki was the most explicit yet in what appears
to be a growing effort by Arab governments to head off what many in
the region suspect may be the next phase in the American-led war:
making a target of Iraq as a supporter of terrorism, particularly if
it can be linked to the Al Qaeda network..."


</fontfamily>

<excerpt>As to the future and the role that Islam will

play in the world, for starters hunt down a copy=20

of Samuel Huntington's The Clash of Civilizations=20

and the Remaking of World Order. This was=20

published in 1996 and is the most up-to-date

overview of the subject. Best insight so far

(I'm about 1/3 through): non Western civilizations

can and do modernize without abandoning their

religion. The religious revival of the last=20

30 years ALL OVER THE WORLD is apparently the=20

joker in the pack.


</excerpt>


Marx was right when he pointed out that the class struggle is endemic
to=20

human civilization. If you take away political ideologies like
communism as=20

a framework for populist opposition to economic domination, you=20

automatically elevate religion into its place, just as US Blacks have
used=20

the church as their shelter and voice for justice of last resort.=20


Where you used to have secular Arabs struggling for political reform,
you now

have islamic fundamentalists fighting for the same freedoms, but
according to=20

their own tribal or nationalistic religious quirks interacting with
bombs, CIA money,

Pakistani agendas, etc.=20


If you leave the situation alone, then you get modernist left-wing
sentiments=20

developing like on Al Jazeera TV; the one free uncensored populist
voice=20

of Arabs which, not coincidently, also opposes corporate domination.


Hppy thnksgvng!



















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