Is there a pattern here?

[Wayne Johnson]

Interesting review of Ashcroft's "performance" in today's Wash. Post.  From
the perspective of this person,  Ashcroft is totally arrogant and doesn't
give a shit what anyone in the Senate thinks about anything or is wholly
incompetent because his presentation was utterly devoid of facts,
information, plans or even intelligent responses to reasonable questions.
And this sob thinks he should be President?

My true feelings about this grotesque possibility are not going to appear on
the web.  However, any Ashcroft administration would make "1984 " look like
"Mary Poppins."

WJ

Incidentally, in this post Pearl Harbor day, it is interesting to recall
that the Lincoln Brigade (those who fought in Spain against Germany/Franco)
were referred to/almost punished for (being) "Pre-mature Anti-Facists".  In
other words, one will become opposed to this countries enemies only when
told to by the government.  Regarding, the post above, I think we need
another Lincoln Brigade here at home.  Oh, dear, I am NOT suggesting
anything militaristic.

-----Original Message-----
From: austin-ghetto-list-admin@pairlist.net
[mailto:austin-ghetto-list-admin@pairlist.net]On Behalf Of susan gilbert
Sent: Saturday, December 08, 2001 1:44 AM
To: Jon Ford
Cc: austin-ghetto-list
Subject: Re: Is there a pattern here?


this is a total non sequiter or however you spell that, but , ashcroft seems
to say that you are either with'em or against  'em  and pseudo terrorists
to boot; and that it is of no importance if gun dealers sold weapons capable
of bringing down airplanes, because the congress wanted it that way. how can
this line of reason be sold to the ordinary joe, somehow this has been the
problem, at least for me, not being able to figure out why most everyone
doesn't see the trick,  if only i had a hammer, i would hammer these old
walls down.   alas and alak, susi
> From: "Jon Ford" <jonmfordster@hotmail.com>
> Date: Fri, 07 Dec 2001 15:58:23 -0800
> To: rcbaker@eden.infohwy.com, austin-ghetto-list@pairlist.net
> Subject: Re: Is there a pattern here?
>
> Roger, thanks for taking notes on Mike's nasty comments on your postings!
> I'd love to include this exchange in a chapter in the "citizenship" book
I'm
> writing--the chapter on "on-line" citizenship. I've sure, though, that
Mike
> would never give permission to include the excerpts you have saved from
his
> speeches; he comes off as a sorry kind of Internet citizen indeed.
>
> Jon
>
>
>> From: Roger Baker <rcbaker@eden.infohwy.com>
>> To: austin-ghetto-list@pairlist.net
>> Subject: Is there a pattern here?
>> Date: Fri, 7 Dec 2001 00:04:49 -0800
>>
>> Being on this list and submitting anything with much intellectual
>> traction
>> (like Noam Chomsky for example) makes one subject to being called a
>> crank,
>> unscientific, chickenshit, a ranter, bogus , in bad faith, alienated,
>> unobjective,
>> in favor of the destruction of Israel, and even a potential target of
>> physical
>> abuse by herr listmaster  -- as these recent verbatim Eisenstat  quotes
>> indicate.
>>
>> And these are merely from the last several months. (I challenge anyone to
>> find anything of comparable venomousness aimed by myself at Mike).
>>
>> I think anyone who expresses an important opinion on this list that does
>> not
>> pass Mike's criteria for political correctness has to be prepared to
>> put up with such hotheaded commentary, modulated by lapses of calm
>> reasonableness and even hard won praise from Mike.  Despite all this,
>> there are clear but subtle indications that at some level Mike actually
>> likes
>> or at least respects me. On a good day.
>>
>> -- Roger
>>
>>
>> ***************************************
>>
>>
>>
>> ...The angry rhetoric of the quoted paragraph makes Roger's rantings
>> seem almost reasonable. And its scatterbrain logic of the rest
>> of the letter suggests that its author is a crank who far
>> exceeds OUR crank (I mean Roger of course) in crankiness.
>> How many cranks does one maillist need?...
>>
>> ME -- Oct.23
>>
>>
>> ...My point exactly. There is a difference between OUR cranks
>> and unknown cranks. OURS are fuzzy and lovable (I am thinking
>> of Roger and Tary). The others are not. I 4 1 do not enjoy
>> seeing angry rhetoric in my Inbox from strangers about how
>> evil and guilty America and Americans are...
>>
>> ME -- Oct. 24
>>
>>
>> ...Roger up to now our chief ranter, who IS
>> one of us, has learnt to paste in URLs
>> when he wants to make a point...
>>
>> ME  -- Oct. 26
>>
>> ...Your "maybe..." remark is facetious and not serious, as modern
>> military action is incompatible with one on one jousting
>> like in the Middle Ages. I think your self-proclaimed
>> humanitarianism is totally bogus and in bad faith.
>>
>> We will just have to agree to disagree. My starting point is
>> that there are just wars -- 2 examples (for the non-Rogers)
>> would be WW II and the recent Kosovo intervention. There are
>> many others.
>>
>> Your view that we should NOT have reacted to 9-11 is thankfully
>> confined to the ranks of those like yourself whose main focus of
>> life it is to protest, being otherwise disassociated and
>> alienated from normal pursuits....
>>
>> ME -- Oct 28
>>
>> ...Roger, you really ought to quit claiming thousands of innocents
>> killed until afterwards (hoping there IS an afterwards), when
>> an honest accounting may become possible. The numbers really do
>> count. The 38xx missing and 48x identified dead of 9-11 are accurate
>> numbers. Get the numbers straight, you as an amateur scientist
>> should be able to rise to this degree of objectivity...
>>
>> ME -- Nov 7
>>
>> ...I would ask Chomsky at this point to guess-timate
>> the enormous human toll. We know of 1 death, that
>> of the night watchman. Is he suggesting 10, 100,
>> 1000, 10,000? Like Roger, Chomsky's rhetoric is
>> unscientific because he wont specify a guess-timated
>> number....
>>
>> ME -- Nov 16
>>
>> ...Roger Baker sent 2 paragraphs and 2 Web page pointers.
>>
>> Stylistically it is not clear who wrote these 2 paragraphs.
>> Did you, Roger, write them or did you paste them in from
>> somewhere else? Please advise.
>>
>> As for the 2 pointers, one of them is broken. The other
>> is to an article by a Robert Fisk who wishes the Jews
>> in Israel to be driven out and the land to be reclaimed
>> by Arabs. Is that your view as well, Roger? Remind me to
>> bring this issue up the next time we meet face to face...
>>
>> ME -- Dec 4
>>
>>
>> ...Your post this morning asked what I was getting
>> at in expressing the hope of running into you
>> soon. Your ear is excellent. I had written "I
>> feel like knocking your teeth down your throat"
>> but then I deleted it...
>>
>> ME -- Dec 5
>>
>> ...Is Roger in favor of the destruction of Israel as Robert Fisk
>> is?
>>
>> I should point out that Robert Fisk is not prepared to
>> to admit openly that he is in the favor of destroying
>> Israel. Identifying Israel with France's colonial regime in
>> Algeria (1840-1960) is his way of saying the unsayable:
>> the jews like the French from Algeria must leave Israel
>> or die. That is now the position of many or most
>> Palestinian Arabs. Is that your view too, Roger? Now
>> that you have your English prosody precisely tuned,
>> be a man and speak in your voice. In favor of the
>> destruction of Israel or not?...
>>
>> ME -- Dec 5
>>
>>
>> Of course I am not in favor of the destruction of Israel.
>>
>> Roger,
>>
>> Thank you for saying so. Now that you have learnt
>> to write so elegantly I would humbly suggest you
>> look a little more closely at other folks' writings
>> that you have been forwarding to us. When you paste
>> in remarks that slyly argue for the destruction of
>> Israel, please don't be surprised that I take umbrage.
>> Fisk's language about Israelis and the Israeli army
>> that you chose to forward were dishonest and
>> disgusting.
>>
>> ME -- Dec 5
>
>
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